The reason why Rick Veitch's stories aren't being collected by IDW

[liugeaux]

In the IDW Q&A thread Bobby Curnow mentioned that a deal could not be reached with Rick Veitch to reprint his Mirage Vol. 1 stories. I reached out to Rick to find out why and here's what he sent me back.

Hi Sergio,
The problem is a rights issue. The work was originally done on a handshake with a 50/50 split on any future revenue. I never signed the after-the-fact work-for-hire contract that Mirage later demanded. Over 20 years of trying to negotiate a deal, nothing ever came of it. Now that they have sold the Turtles to Nickelodian/Viacom, there will have to be a new agreement between them and me before any of my copyrighted material can be republished.
I understand the wishes of the fans to see the material, and IDW has been very helpful trying to make it happen. But Nickelodian/Viacom wants me to sign over all rights (films, publishing, merchandise) for my stories to be included in this one publishing event.
Fans should organize to pressure them to do a fair deal.

Cheers,

Rick

I guess that's where we come in. Bobby has repeatedly said that he's not in charge of the reprints, and that emailing [email protected] is our best chance to get things changed. I think though, that this is more a Viacom issue. I may be in the minority here, but I am really going to miss not having a complete reprinting of the Mirage books. I know the TMNT community has some power, would this be something we could affect?

[CyberCubed]

Seems odd to me. He doesn't own the Turtles and with the exception of Bloodsucker why does he want to hold into the rights?

[liugeaux]

Well, in the event that Viacom uses the stories he wrote to make money, if he hands over all of the rights to those stories he gets none of the money Viacom makes on them.

Let's say Viacom decides to turn "The River" into a movie (unlikely, I know) and it makes $200 million. Rick would get nothing if he sold his writes for this collection.

[John Pannozzi]

Maybe they could work out a deal similar to the one they have with Dave Sim regarding the issue featuring Cerebus, whereby Veitch could still own Bloodsucker and other characters he created, so he would still get royalties off of reprints and they couldn't adapt the story without his permission?

[DrSpengler]

This is a real bummer.

The fact that it's a Viacom roadblock basically means there's nothing anyone can do. I'm pretty sure Viacom doesn't open dialogues with fans as intimately as the guys at IDW. There's really no one we can talk to about it but a brick wall.

A shame that there's a wealth of great material that's in demand, but corporate greed is keeping it from ever seeing the light of day again. Veitch and IDW are perfectly willing to come to a reasonable agreement regarding reprint royalties, but Viacom is taking a firm "if we can't have it, no one can" attitude.

Not that Laird and Mirage were any better, as they basically gave Veitch the same runaround with their mandatory retroactive work-for-hire contracts and were willing to keep Veitch's work out of print for 20 years.

Just an all-around frustrating situation; that a creator has to just sit on his own work because he won't sign it over to a corporation.

[Venom]

Viacom has deep enough pockets that they could print the material and settle out later.

Going back to the original agreement though makes me wonder if there's some sort of "eminent domain" type loophole Viacom could enforce should they decide to go that route.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Venom

Viacom has deep enough pockets that they could print the material and settle out later.

Going back to the original agreement though makes me wonder if there's some sort of "eminent domain" type loophole Viacom could enforce should they decide to go that route.

Probably. But they'd likely not want to risk the small chance of a thing costing them millions in court vs. the quantifiable but otherwise meek gains of actually just forging ahead and letting IDW publish the thing and it selling 10,000 copies.

[Ninjinister]

Yeah, you've got to realize that it's only in-demand for those of us that have already read or read about it. I love Veitch's books but I bet you anything there's almost nobody outside of TMNT boards that even know who Bloodsucker is, let alone the rest of the characters he introduced.

This also, as mentioned, kept his stuff from being reprinted with Mirage, and is also why his characters weren't being included in Tristan's unreleased sourcebook.

[Plasticplayhouse]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Probably. But they'd likely not want to risk the small chance of a thing costing them millions in court vs. the quantifiable but otherwise meek gains of actually just forging ahead and letting IDW publish the thing and it selling 10,000 copies.

true. but...the River story would make for an awesome movie or series of movies depending how its made. if done right, that alone could make them millions.

[Venom]

Originally Posted by Prefight Doughnuts

Yeah, you've got to realize that it's only in-demand for those of us that have already read or read about it. I love Veitch's books but I bet you anything there's almost nobody outside of TMNT boards that even know who Bloodsucker is, let alone the rest of the characters he introduced.

This also, as mentioned, kept his stuff from being reprinted with Mirage, and is also why his characters weren't being included in Tristan's unreleased sourcebook.

Actually, "The River" is one of the few Turtle stories the broader comic audience recalls and enjoyed. The owner at my LCS even asked me when that specific story would be reprinted, and otherwise he's as clueless as most other general comic fans in regards to the Turtles.

[frank_one]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

Just an all-around frustrating situation; that a creator has to just sit on his own work because he won't sign it over to a corporation.

More or less. You have to consider that those comics he did for Mirage contain characters he doesn't own. It's not really "his own work", it never was.

[plastroncafe]

Sure, he didn't create the main protagonists, but The River contains some pretty important character moments that are most certainly part of the Vol 1 Mythology.

He should be compensated for those contributions.

[CyberCubed]

Seems more like Veitch is just being petty. He knew he was writing for an established comic book franchise rather than his own series.

Its been what...over 20 years since his issues were originally published? Guy needs to let go and get over it.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Prefight Doughnuts

Yeah, you've got to realize that it's only in-demand for those of us that have already read or read about it. I love Veitch's books but I bet you anything there's almost nobody outside of TMNT boards that even know who Bloodsucker is, let alone the rest of the characters he introduced.

That's really neither here nor there. "The River" as a trade is going to sell probably about the same number of copies as the trade before it, and the trade after it.

Originally Posted by Plasticplayhouse

true. but...the River story would make for an awesome movie or series of movies depending how its made. if done right, that alone could make them millions.

"The River" would be a neat second movie to a rebooted TMNT movie franchise not overly mired in toys or awkward Fred Wolf nostalgia (though they'd probably have to amp up the threat of Bloodsucker... I'm not sure just Bloodsucker and Old Man River alone make for enough "action on the screen" for a feature film, though perhaps if Bloodsucker had progeny wreaking havoc on the townsfolk too). In other words, it wouldn't be happening in our lifetimes.

[frank_one]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Sure, he didn't create the main protagonists, but The River contains some pretty important character moments that are most certainly part of the Vol 1 Mythology.

He should be compensated for those contributions.

I'm not sure those issues are SO important. However, he obviously didn't write and draw those stories for free, he got paid for that back then. He has ALREADY been compensated.

[Ninjinister]

Originally Posted by Venom

Actually, "The River" is one of the few Turtle stories the broader comic audience recalls and enjoyed. The owner at my LCS even asked me when that specific story would be reprinted, and otherwise he's as clueless as most other general comic fans in regards to the Turtles.

Maybe he's a Veitch fan? He built up quite the fanbase when he worked on Swamp Thing and a few other things. IDK. All I know is nobody I know outside of the most involved Turtle fans know of the story (or even most of Mirage).

[AquaParade]

This just makes me glad I own the single issues. They shouldn't be impossible to track down for anyone interested, and are most definitely worth it, in my humble opinion. I'll definitely pick up a collected version if it ends up being released down the line. Re-colored with a hardcover, would be an unlikely dream come true.

I'll never forget the uneasy feeling "The River" gave me as a child, which later grew into an intense love. There is something about this story that feels so serene, yet horrifying at the same time.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by frank_one

I'm not sure those issues are SO important. However, he obviously didn't write and draw those stories for free, he got paid for that back then. He has ALREADY been compensated.

Veitch agreed to a 50/50 split of future revenue, which means there's no past-tense for his level of compensation.

I say good for him to sticking to his guns. Comics, as an industry, has a long ugly tradition of dicking around creators and artists when it comes to rights and compensation.

[Matches Malone]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Seems more like Veitch is just being petty. He knew he was writing for an established comic book franchise rather than his own series.

Its been what...over 20 years since his issues were originally published? Guy needs to let go and get over it.

Mirage was very supportive of creator rights, and yes, when writing for an established comic book franchise, it gets a little sticky. However, in this instance, he is not just talking about getting paid for the reprinting of these issues, but the rights to anything that may come about it. For many, it may just be about principle. If something were to be taken from his contributions, however unlikely, such as the villain or story he created, and saw it used in something else like the comics, movies, or whatnot, and he wouldn't get a dime or even the recognition for it. It's a bit narrow-minded to call someone petty for this if you know what it's like to create something and later on get nothing for it while others profit.

[Jester]

Here's a silly question: Could this explain Wyrm, who is in essence a cheap knock off of Bloodsucker?