William the White Washed Shredder: Why We Should Learn Not to Assume

[T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!]

Originally Posted by Blips

I don't understand why studios listen to a very vocal negative group on the Internet when there's no clear indication of how big that group actually is. The Internet is filled with negativity and there was going to be backlash towards different aspects of the film no matter what. You can't please everybody.

Plus there's no way to guarantee that appeasing the negative group will get them to buy a ticket. Most people who purchase a ticket are probably casual fans who are unaware of all the hubbub around Shredder. Most of the audience at the showing I went to reacted with awe when Donatello flung Raph into the humvee and that was in the first teaser!

Ok here is a question that I have. I honestly believe that studios couldn't care less about the "real fans" because I've seen enough comic book characters butchered by Hollywood. But here's the thing. Why WOULDN'T Hollywood want to make a movie that appeals to the real fans? I mean if they are basically making a movie for people that don't really "keep up" with the franchise the way we do then why wouldn't they make it as close to the source material as possible? Why do they feel the need to "change" stuff. I mean if the "average Joe" goes in to watch it he's not gonna know if it's close to the source material or not. So what's the danger in making it as close as possible? It seems there is far more danger in NOT honoring it because you get so much negative word of mouth press around your film. I just don't understand these people at all. TMNT has made BILLIONS of dollars off of the established mythology so WHY change that? That just seems incredibly stupid to me. It's like companies have forgotten the lesson that was "New Coke". There was a profitable formula but then some idiot said "Hey! Let's change it!" and you see how that turned out. That is what Hollywood does constantly.

[Xiewin]

They obviously changed it due to backlash, no denying it now.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!

Why WOULDN'T Hollywood want to make a movie that appeals to the real fans? I mean if they are basically making a movie for people that don't really "keep up" with the franchise the way we do then why wouldn't they make it as close to the source material as possible?

While I whole heartedly agree with that entire rant, it's actually because of movies like John Carter of Mars, or Scott Pilgrim, or even Kick Ass 2. Movies that were very faithful to the source material, but didn't make enough money, what ever that means.

It's also because they make a very simple, but inaccurate assumption.

"So the circulation of comicbook 'x' is around 20,000 copies a month. That means if we made a movie, that was exactly the same as this comic, we might get 20,000 people interested, but only 10% could be counted on in attendance. To engage the people who just aren't interested in comicbook's, we need to leave out all the nerdy bits, and make it BETTER, more ACCESSIBLE."

The flawed logic that if you're not reading the comics, you must not be interested, therefore there is a problem with the comics, that they should "fix".

It's also that really annoying catch all phrase, that EVERYONE seems to accept as fact "The audience today needs more/won't buy it/is more sophisticated/fill in the blank"

The precise reason they just had to change the ending of Watchmen.

[sdp]

I wouldn't normally think internet backlash would've caused the re-shoots just look at all the backlash the Transformers movies get online, but come on, it makes too much sense they cut the movie up and for the best, I thought it was a good movie.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by sdp

I wouldn't normally think internet backlash would've caused the re-shoots just look at all the backlash the Transformers movies get online, but come on, it makes too much sense they cut the movie up and for the best, I thought it was a good movie.

Transformers backlash caused both a redesign of Megatrons face, and the casting of the original voice of Prime, Peter Cullen.

Cullen replaced Liam Neeson, and though fans tried to get Frank Welker to play Megatron, Bay wouldn't budge.

[T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

While I whole heartedly agree with that entire rant, it's actually because of movies like John Carter of Mars, or Scott Pilgrim, or even Kick Ass 2. Movies that were very faithful to the source material, but didn't make enough money, what ever that means.

It's also because they make a very simple, but inaccurate assumption.

"So the circulation of comicbook 'x' is around 20,000 copies a month. That means if we made a movie, that was exactly the same as this comic, we might get 20,000 people interested, but only 10% could be counted on in attendance. To engage the people who just aren't interested in comicbook's, we need to leave out all the nerdy bits, and make it BETTER, more ACCESSIBLE."

The flawed logic that if you're not reading the comics, you must not be interested, therefore there is a problem with the comics, that they should "fix".

It's also that really annoying catch all phrase, that EVERYONE seems to accept as fact "The audience today needs more/won't buy it/is more sophisticated/fill in the blank"

The precise reason they just had to change the ending of Watchmen.

Well I wasn't really trying to rant as much as I was just honestly trying to inquire but believe me I CAN rant! LOL. Yeah Watchmen is a prime example of Hollywood thinking they know more than the actual creators. I mean Watchmen is LITERALLY the ONLY comic that is listed on Time Magazine's Top 100 Pieces of Literature of the 20th century but then Hollywood comes along and says "We can actually improve upon that" and then precedes to demolish the complete work of art they started with. The bottom line is you would THINK they would want to make a movie where EVERYbody wins.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!

Well I wasn't really trying to rant as much as I was just honestly trying to inquire but believe me I CAN rant! LOL. Yeah Watchmen is a prime example of Hollywood thinking they know more than the actual creators. I mean Watchmen is LITERALLY the ONLY comic that is listed on Time Magazine's Top 100 Pieces of Literature of the 20th century but then Hollywood comes along and says "We can actually improve upon that" and then precedes to demolish the complete work of art they started with. The bottom line is you would THINK they would want to make a movie where EVERYbody wins.

Like I said, with you 100%.
Been campaigning round these parts for a GOT tonned TMNT for a bit. Not an exact comparrison, clearrly, but I think, if done right, it could rule the airwaves just like Breaking Bad or MadMen did. It's all there in the comics.

I honestly don't mind if they take a few liberties with the source material, sol long as it fits the theme and tone. Take the damned property seriously as a piece of subversive writing, as it was intended to be from the beginning.

hell, I'd even argue that the first 5 episodes of the OT had more in common with Mirage, from a certain vantage point, than 2014.

[TrickOrTreater]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

While I whole heartedly agree with that entire rant, it's actually because of movies like John Carter of Mars, or Scott Pilgrim, or even Kick Ass 2. Movies that were very faithful to the source material, but didn't make enough money, what ever that means.

It's also because they make a very simple, but inaccurate assumption.

"So the circulation of comicbook 'x' is around 20,000 copies a month. That means if we made a movie, that was exactly the same as this comic, we might get 20,000 people interested, but only 10% could be counted on in attendance. To engage the people who just aren't interested in comicbook's, we need to leave out all the nerdy bits, and make it BETTER, more ACCESSIBLE."

The flawed logic that if you're not reading the comics, you must not be interested, therefore there is a problem with the comics, that they should "fix".

It's also that really annoying catch all phrase, that EVERYONE seems to accept as fact "The audience today needs more/won't buy it/is more sophisticated/fill in the blank"

The precise reason they just had to change the ending of Watchmen.

See I would agree, but now that Guardians of the Galaxy exists and is HUGELY successful(and a great movie, how novel of them) that just goes out the window.

Sure, some things can't be adapted between comics(or books) and movies. They're two different mediums with different but valid ways of telling a story.

That's fine. Some things just can't happen.

But to go into a property and change something because you(general you) just want to because it fits YOUR sensibilities better, is horseshit.

There was absolutely NO bloody reason to originally make Shredder white other than because that's apparently what Michael Bay and maybe the writers wanted. There was NO reason to delete Hamato Yoshi entirely from this movie other than that's just what they wanted.

And before anybody says "it's made for kids, kids don't care." Exactly. F*cking exactly. The kids won't care either way so why NOT adapt it the right way?

So yeah, there's no reason for these types of changes other than the writers/producer/director wanted to change it because.

[Blips]

Originally Posted by T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!

Ok here is a question that I have. I honestly believe that studios couldn't care less about the "real fans" because I've seen enough comic book characters butchered by Hollywood. But here's the thing. Why WOULDN'T Hollywood want to make a movie that appeals to the real fans? I mean if they are basically making a movie for people that don't really "keep up" with the franchise the way we do then why wouldn't they make it as close to the source material as possible?

I think the filmmakers believed they were making a film for the real fans and did not expect a backlash at all. They also probably wanted to change some things so the film had its own voice and wasn't just a remake of the first film with CG main characters instead of guys in suits.

I don't know why they felt the need to make Sacks Shredder in the first place, but since they were already down that route, I wish they had the courage to stick to their convictions.

The Nick show is an excellent example of mixing the original comics and cartoons backstory while adding new elements to keep things fresh, which would've been a better route for the film to take. I'm honestly surprised its not more in line with the Nick show as it is.

[Joey Kamikaze]

The thing with all the changes is... well, this is how Hollywood works:

The execs obsessed with making money tend to cut stories apart because they think they'll make more money by doing what's worked before. Especially when you're talking people like Michael Bay, it's all about what they think will drive profits, not what's true to the license or has artistic merit or yadda yadda yadda. So if you're going to ask "Why did they make change X or change Y?" the answer is "A group of 50-80 year olds in ten thousand dollar suits who remember seeing some of this Teenager X-Man Karate Turtle show one time when their grandkids were watching it said the focus groups want X and the last few movies they made with Y had good opening weekends, so that's what the writer was ordered to put into the script."

[MajorViolence]

Originally Posted by Blips

I think the filmmakers believed they were making a film for the real fans and did not expect a backlash at all. They also probably wanted to change some things so the film had its own voice and wasn't just a remake of the first film with CG main characters instead of guys in suits.

I don't know why they felt the need to make Sacks Shredder in the first place, but since they were already down that route, I wish they had the courage to stick to their convictions.

The Nick show is an excellent example of mixing the original comics and cartoons backstory while adding new elements to keep things fresh, which would've been a better route for the film to take. I'm honestly surprised its not more in line with the Nick show as it is.

Yeah, before the script leaked, I was certain the movie would be a spinoff of the TV show, or at least be heavily related in order to benefit from its popularity. You would think they could easily handle it like Out of the Shadows, which would please practically everyone. Oh well.

[Radical Raph]

It's sad though because even if Shredder was meant to be Asian and even if he wasn't tossed in at the last second with reshoots, you don't get that sense from the movie. Asian Shredder still feels tacked on with Sacks running the show.