Splinter's origin story.

[Savanti Romero]

The old cartoon's orgin never made sense to me. I like the pet version much better. It's more believable. The ooze contains somthing to genetically alter a creature to take a sort of human shape, but at the same time keep many characteristics from the original specimen.
If the ooze made a human change into a creature he had come in contact with, to me it seems a much more controlled environment would be needed. If Yoshi was touching a rat and then touched a turtle he would keep the rats form? So thats implying the ooze KNOWS what the first creature was the person came in to contact with and doesn't allow another creature to mix in, even if that other creature came shortly after?
To me the ooze isn't an entity which can decide on things like that. I don't know, it just makes more sense to me that he was a rat first especially because the turtles didn't mix with a human.

[Pizza Face]

If they mutated into the animal they last touched, they would all be microrganisms. WHAT UP!

[Savanti Romero]

So the your saying the ooze knows what the first animal was the human touched? And the Turtles didn't mutate with a human did they?

P.S. The roof.

[Kali]

I'm gonna say that I favor the origin from the comics/new show because in my mind, it makes more sense.

In my mind, Splinter was given to Yoshi by a traveling shaman/mystic/wise man. And BTW, there are several other rats that this man gave out, just none of them mutated further like Splinter.

It makes sense to me, anyway. Y'all can believe whatever you want.

[heretic888]

Its hard to dilineate these two specific points to determine which is "better".

Both the "Splinter was Hamato Yoshi" and "Splinter was Yoshi's pet" points exist within the framework of their respective stories. The Splinter being a rat point makes sense and is appropriate for the original Mirage storyline, as is the Hamato Yoshi arch in the old cartoon.

Thus, you can't actually separate the two from the greater story they are a part of. What we are really comparing is the Mirage/RPG/movie/new cartoon origin story vs. the old cartoon/Archie origin story.

The older, Mirage story is obviously a better tale with greater depth and intrigue in it. The old cartoon story was just made for little kiddies, because it didn't involve murder like the Mirage one.

[Machias Banshee]

You've never Read the Archies, have you? I would take, from the way you post, that you have not.

Take another look at the Archies. Yeah, the first five issues are straight from the cartoon, but afterwards, it splits off into its own universe.

there is death (the mutanimals, Kid Terra, Charlie Lama, etc.)
there is 'history' (Splinter tells his tale of when he lived in Japan during the Hiroshima bombing, and his uncle lost his sight. He also tells the Japanese Mythologies of Izanami and Izanagi.)
there is Drama (The death of the Mutanimals, plenty of other deaths, both mutan and human, Michelangelo's blindness, capture and torture on the USS Dator, his and Splinter's Demutation, Ninjara and Raphael's romance and splitup, I could go on if i didnt have class soon...)

There is so much deepness that people dont know about, simply because they base the Archies off the first five issues, and ASSUME its just a "kiddie" comic. I can tell you that this had plenty mature material in it to shock me even now...

If i didnt have class in a short bit, I'd be able to tell you a bit more...but I think I'll leave that to a lil friend of mine...

[heretic888]

*chuckles*

You've never Read the Archies, have you? I would take, from the way you post, that you have not.

Yes, I have, actually. After the Mirage books, they are my favorite TMNT media format.

Take another look at the Archies. Yeah, the first five issues are straight from the cartoon, but afterwards, it splits off into its own universe.

there is death (the mutanimals, Kid Terra, Charlie Lama, etc.)
there is 'history' (Splinter tells his tale of when he lived in Japan during the Hiroshima bombing, and his uncle lost his sight. He also tells the Japanese Mythologies of Izanami and Izanagi.)
there is Drama (The death of the Mutanimals, plenty of other deaths, both mutan and human, Michelangelo's blindness, capture and torture on the USS Dator, his and Splinter's Demutation, Ninjara and Raphael's romance and splitup, I could go on if i didnt have class soon...)

You're not telling me anything I don't already know.

There is so much deepness that people dont know about, simply because they base the Archies off the first five issues, and ASSUME its just a "kiddie" comic. I can tell you that this had plenty mature material in it to shock me even now...

*chuckles* The "no murder because it was for kiddies" comment was in reference to the ORIGIN STORY... not the series as a whole. The Archie comic origin story is based off the old cartoon origin story, which was indeed tailored to not have killing in it so it wouldn't upset parents.

Laterz.

[Jarrah White]

Originally Posted by Relay

April was mutated into a number of things (like a cat) because that's what was nearby

[heretic888]

Actually, she was only mutated into a cat and possibly a hornet if memory serves me correctly....

[Kali]

Originally Posted by heretic888

Actually, she was only mutated into a cat and possibly a hornet if memory serves me correctly....

She was also mutated into a fish at one point. And in the Archies, she was a Turtle for awhile.

[heretic888]

Oh, okies.

[Jarrah White]

Originally Posted by Kali

She was also mutated into a fish at one point. And in the Archies, she was a Turtle for awhile.

Forgive me for being only familiar with the old series, but. Purhaps you can give us a link to the Archives? Maybe a few pictures, this I gotta see.

[Duke]

Originally Posted by heretic888

Actually, she was only mutated into a cat and possibly a hornet if memory serves me correctly....

I don't remember her being a hornet. Was it in the archies cause i haven't read all of those?

[Machias Banshee]

I remember her being turned into a hornet! I think Vernon had been changed into a dung beetle or something.... Baxter was up to stuff at the time..

[Lisardo]

Definately the old TMNT show. The fact that he was once human helps explain why he knows Shredder and why he knows ninjitsu. I like how Shredder was his student who resented his master.

Yeah what he said. I didn't like the idea of a pet rat learning ninjitsu moves. I mean, that was BEFORE he got mutated and intelligent ya know. Of course I've heard rats are intelligent but not THAT intelligent. And yeah the fact that Shredder was his student was done well too. Plus it works nicely around, 'not being to violent for the kiddies watching'.

[Lisardo]

And then, Hamato Yoshi touched the turtles, so why didn't he become a turtle? How can animals mutated to humanoids talk instantly? Well it's children's show, and they needed to find a non violent way to tell the origin. Logic or no, it did work for the old cartoon.

Ya know, I was always confused by that too. I'm surprized he didn't turn into a turtle. Unless they meant that Splinter touching the rats first had already taken effect on him, so touching the turtles at that point didn't matter. Like when its set, then that's it. But then you could argue that Splinter should have been a mix between, human, turtle, and rat.....and look really messed up. Ok so their story had a couple of loopholes. But it seemed to make more sense as to why the turtles became so smart. DNA is a complicated thing ya know.

[Jarrah White]

This should clear it up, Yoshi was mutated into a rat because he had lived with sewer rats for years, he had only just found the turtles. Because he had been exposed to the rats longer he had picked up more rat DNA than turtle DNA. As for the turtles, they had been handled by pet store owners, the child who originally purchased them and Hamato Yoshi, there for it was obvious they'd grow into human-sized turtles.

[heretic888]

I remember her being turned into a hornet! I think Vernon had been changed into a dung beetle or something.... Baxter was up to stuff at the time..

It happended relatively later on in the series. Baxter had turned everyone at Channel 6 into some kind of insect mutant. April was a hornet mutant, and Vernon was a spider mutant.

Yeah what he said. I didn't like the idea of a pet rat learning ninjitsu moves. I mean, that was BEFORE he got mutated and intelligent ya know. Of course I've heard rats are intelligent but not THAT intelligent.

Its been discussed at length beforehand that Splinter was *not* an ordinary rat, even before he was exposed to the mutagen. This is implied numerous times in the comic, and flat-out stated in the Mirage-based Palladium RPG. Rats generally only live a few years, whereas Splinter lived well over a decade before ever being exposed to the mutagen (and living 3 more decades thereafter).

Kali already discussed her pet theory that Splinter was a "gift" to the Ninja student Yoshi from a wandering shaman, mystic, yamabushi, or whatever. I'm not sure if that's in the comics or not, but it would make sense.

And yeah the fact that Shredder was his student was done well too.

The fact that Saki was the younger brother of Yoshi's rival Nagi was also done well. The new cartoon, in my opinion, ruins this very important angle to the TMNT mythology (while making Shredder some centuries-old demon, alien, or whatever is a cool aspect).

Ya know, I was always confused by that too. I'm surprized he didn't turn into a turtle. Unless they meant that Splinter touching the rats first had already taken effect on him, so touching the turtles at that point didn't matter. Like when its set, then that's it. But then you could argue that Splinter should have been a mix between, human, turtle, and rat.....and look really messed up. Ok so their story had a couple of loopholes. But it seemed to make more sense as to why the turtles became so smart. DNA is a complicated thing ya know.

Yes, this whole debacle was one of the big loopholes in the old cartoon's origin story. It seems odd that Shredder tried to use the mutagen to "kill" Yoshi, as I fail to see how the mutagen would accomplish this.

This should clear it up, Yoshi was mutated into a rat because he had lived with sewer rats for years, he had only just found the turtles. Because he had been exposed to the rats longer he had picked up more rat DNA than turtle DNA. As for the turtles, they had been handled by pet store owners, the child who originally purchased them and Hamato Yoshi, there for it was obvious they'd grow into human-sized turtles.

No, Yoshi had not "just found the turtles". In the original cartoon story, he had been in contact with them for quite some time before being exposed to the mutagen.

Besides, that's not how the cartoon mutagen works anyway. It mutates you into the form of whatever animal you LAST had contact with. It doesn't matter how much or how long that contact was. Many people in the old cartoon were mutated after having only touched animals for a few seconds before (such as Bebop and Rocksteady).

Laterz.

[Karpo_007]

New cartoon's origin story was a slight disapointment for me too. I was hoping to see Tang Shen and Oroku Nagi, but I guess 3 deaths during the origin story would have been too much even for this show. On the other hand, Shredder as a Demon is definetly original idea.

[Splinter]

Well, Yoshi was off feeding the rats when the ooze came into the lair and made contact with the turtles. So he came back, covered in rat DNA from touching them. Then he picked them up to clean them off, obviously he came into contact with the ooze before them, since they were covered with it. So his transformation into rat was already occuring the moment he picked them up. He may have also stepped into the ooze, to pick them up.