Minnesota shooting

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by sdp

School/mass shootings are literally a US problem. It doesn't happen anywhere else in the world like it does there. It's a culture problem.

It absolutely is a culture problem. But probably not at all in the way you mean.

[Barkworm]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Here's where the disparity comes in. "Civilized country" metrics. Apparently countries like Mexico and Venezuela and Ecuador are "uncivilized" (but they don't like to say that) and are excluded from the metrics as there's about a 3000% higher chance you'll get blown away on vacation and/or kidnapped and beheaded or ransomed or hacked to little bits and dissolved in barrels of acid there than in the U.S..

lol, those are the countries you want to get compared to? Countries that are basically run by criminal organizations? Yeah, those are "uncivilized countries". There, I said it!

[TMNT is cooler than MOTU]

I was informed by conservatives that prayer in school is why things like this happen. Does this mean god hates catholics?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I don't know man, I find it tasteless how the discussion around the shooting immediately turned into a culture war, mere minutes after the attack.

I'm as radical right as they get here, and I absolutely detest liberal ideology and everything it leads to, but did the shooter really do what they did because of being trans? I don't think so.

There are plenty of trans people who would never do something like this, and blaming transgenderism for the attack is unfair to those individuals as well as those people who ideologically oppose transgenderism for more nuanced reasons than "they beccummm killllerrrzzzz"

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

I don't know man, I find it tasteless how the discussion around the shooting immediately turned into a culture war, mere minutes after the attack.

That’s every single time. Like clockwork.

*mass shooting happens*

All the libtards: You just know he was white! We need gun control NOW!

Every MAGA Unc: Guarantee you the shooter was a Muslim or trans!

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Kinda petty to immediately jump on the culture war politics of something like this.

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

I don't know man, I find it tasteless how the discussion around the shooting immediately turned into a culture war

I would argue that this shooting itself is an act of war, and of the very worst kind... against a culture they don't like or feel alienated by/superior to. Is it not?

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I would argue that this shooting itself is an act of war, and of the very worst kind... against a culture they don't like or feel alienated by/superior to. Is it not?

First of all I think you’re using a very generous definition of “war”. I would not say the occasional idiot with a death wish acting alone in killing a single digit amount of people is “war”.

Mass shooters come from various demographics. A few have been trans in the past five years. What are you suggesting? Trans people should be further ostracized and shunned? That will make things better?

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

I don't live in the USA but for anyone living there, do you fear that everyday outside could see you caught up in a Mass shooting or does the media amplify the risk?

Nah. I mean, it's horrible to hear of it happening, but it's a large enough country that the odds of ending up in one are low.

Considering what you might do in that kind of situation (without trying to play hero unless there is no choice and you absolutely must) is prob wise, but wouldn't be healthy to live life fearing that it's going to. Getting hit by idiot drivers is a bigger fear and more likely.

[member_removed]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

I don't live in the USA but for anyone living there, do you fear that everyday outside could see you caught up in a Mass shooting or does the media amplify the risk?

Originally Posted by Barkworm

There's no comparable risk of getting gunned down in any other civilized country. It's no "narrative", your system is comepletely broken.

I would be terrified if I had to send my kids to a US school. Active shooter drills, shouldn’t need to be normalised.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Here's where the disparity comes in. "Civilized country" metrics. Apparently countries like Mexico and Venezuela and Ecuador are "uncivilized" (but they don't like to say that) and are excluded from the metrics as there's about a 3000% higher chance you'll get blown away on vacation and/or kidnapped and beheaded or ransomed or hacked to little bits and dissolved in barrels of acid there than in the U.S..

Everyone I know in Germany has like the worst blinders on about these things, I swear.

None of those places come across as ideal holiday locations. Unless you have a kink to watch donkey shows.

Originally Posted by Daytona

This exactly.

I mean there are more shootings than you hear about - bc there are many people here. The ones you do hear about however are chosen and highlighted to form specific narratives and covered only when useful.

This is because, by whatever means, our mainstream forms of media and entertainment have essentially been commandeered by the Democratic Party.

I think the main reason we hear about this outside of the US is because of the school ones, because it’s so damn horrific. Dead kids, where else in the G7 world does this happen?
I would argue to that the extreme right also turn this morbid affair into a circus as well, with the likes of Alex Jones, declaring these types of events to be a hoax. Why? Clicks and likes.

Originally Posted by IMJ

-Ratios involving the size of the U.S. to violence (i.e. Germany is roughly only the size of Montana, so in that example you are talking about a proportion of violence that doesn't even remotely include an equally large "melting pot" of people, let alone the size of the U.S. And any melting pot of culture that is arising in Germany is causing a ton of social-issues from increased immigration)

-Metric reporting (Andrew tackled this one nicely above)

-Or how about prolific news? Other nations file reports about what happens in the U.S. probably 30 to 1 what the U.S. reports about social-news going on around the rest of the world. In many cases 48% of foreigners follow news about the U.S. I guarantee that half of America doesn't follow news about the raging violence and homelessness in France or the fact that 32% of women have experienced physical, sexual, or psychological violence in Germany. 32%. In a country the size of Montana.

Land mass aside that’s an unfair comparison, population wise you’re comparing a population of 1.7M to 83M.
If you want massage the facts, Oklahoma’s domestic violence rate against woman is 49%

https://oklahomawatch.org/2025/03/20...stic-violence/
Go Sooners!

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by TMNT is cooler than MOTU

I was informed by conservatives that prayer in school is why things like this happen. Does this mean god hates catholics?

Everyone has to insert their agenda. Even Catholic schools have bullying. They just hide it from the staff whereas the hoodrat ghetto clowns will mouth to the teacher directly.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by member_removed

I would be terrified if I had to send my kids to a US school. Active shooter drills, shouldn’t need to be normalised.

Maybe, maybe not. But surely something is better than nothing? 40 years ago in the Cold War there was nuclear missile drills in classrooms where you get under the desks, and a little bit before that there was actual "Gun Clubs" in class (and 0 school shootings). Those kids turned out OK, as these are like our fathers or grandfathers/mothers. So...? If nothing else, security should be beefed up since we're unwilling to address the core issues and/or they've become spiraled. I'm not against teachers having some kind of lockbox with a gun they're able to unlock in a crisis but barring that, normalizing armed security patrols or a consistent police presence seems prudent (which seems super good to me! let's get back in the business of doing the opposite of demonizing the police). "Gun Free Zones" are meaningless in a country where there is the 2nd amendment giving us the right to bear arms and no amount of willing them or crying at them or screaming at them from far away countries with a guilt complex like Germany is going to remove them from the country, and nor should they. Also, it's not lost on me that the loudest voices about school shootings are the people with no kids.

And I know what this kind of sentiment from the other side actually wants to say without (usually) actually saying it is, "COLLECT ALL THE GUNS! FROM THE U.S.! GOOD GRIEF, MARCH ALL OF THEM TO MORDOR AND THROW THEM INTO MOUNT DOOM IMMEDIATELY!!!" (and in little letters or no letters, "TRUST THE GOVERNMENT/THE POLICE TO SAVE YOU, ALWAYS! AND ALSO TO NEVER BECOME TYRANNICAL") but that's never going to happen. And again, nor should it. So what's your alternative? Like, seriously. Nothing? Just wait for the next shooting so you can get mad at the guns again, rather than actually present practical solutions (or at least measures) to prevent kids from getting shot up like fish in a barrel? That's your plan? This mentality is disgusting to me.

Originally Posted by member_removed

I think the main reason we hear about this outside of the US is because of the school ones, because it’s so damn horrific. Dead kids, where else in the G7 world does this happen?

This may sound shocking, but the mainstream media doesn't cover every country everywhere equally. Also, it may have an interest in swaying opinion in very specific ones. Also shocking, right? Like, the ones they have an invested interest in?

My family is from Colombia. Which when stacked next to Mexico, Venezuela, and Ecuador, it is considered "tame" but absolutely it would be considered "civilized" by any definition you could throw at it. Nowadays, at least. But the stories I hear from the 50 cousins that FB me (or the videos)... suffice to say, you would be surprised. And wow... what a shocker... no media coverage about any of it ever.

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

First of all I think you’re using a very generous definition of “war”. I would not say the occasional idiot with a death wish acting alone in killing a single digit amount of people is “war”.

Mass shooters come from various demographics. A few have been trans in the past five years. What are you suggesting? Trans people should be further ostracized and shunned? That will make things better?

I would say in regard to the first part, not a very generous definition of "war" but the very real one. In the minds of psychopaths like this one. They really did decide to go to war. In the same way you'd join up and fight the Nazis in WWII with the full knowledge that you'll most likely die on the battlefield but still feel righteous in doing so. In this case, a chickensh** level of "I'm going to blow away little kids and then off myself and maybe delete this later" for -- in their minds -- the greater good.

Definitely not that trans people should be ostracized and shunned. I'm friends with many trans. Trans that are pretty "real" about stuff and don't like people speaking on their behalf. My last movie literally starred a trans woman in the lead role. I just feel compelled to shine a light after years and years of being told "Nuh-no, only white corn-fed white guys who probably want to overthrow Biden are the REAL threat!" that... well... you know. Here you go. We see a new pattern forming, and it ain't us. You guys loved to make a circus about this years ago or any time since, so here it is. Fair media time. Let's not let you hide from it. And this is far more to do with the "radicalized dude by the left-wing media" (really, a Church, which is ironic) than anything to do with what he wants to do with his gender or anything like that.

[member_removed]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Maybe, maybe not. But surely something is better than nothing? 40 years ago in the Cold War there was nuclear missile drills in classrooms where you get under the desks, and a little bit before that there was actual "Gun Clubs" in class (and 0 school shootings). Those kids turned out OK, as these are like our fathers or grandfathers/mothers. So...? If nothing else, security should be beefed up since we're unwilling to address the core issues and/or they've become spiraled. I'm not against teachers having some kind of lockbox with a gun they're able to unlock in a crisis but barring that, normalizing armed security patrols or a consistent police presence seems prudent (which seems super good to me! let's get back in the business of doing the opposite of demonizing the police). "Gun Free Zones" are meaningless in a country where there is the 2nd amendment giving us the right to bear arms and no amount of willing them or crying at them or screaming at them from far away countries with a guilt complex like Germany is going to remove them from the country, and nor should they. Also, it's not lost on me that the loudest voices about school shootings are the people with no kids.

And I know what this kind of sentiment from the other side actually wants to say without (usually) actually saying it is, "COLLECT ALL THE GUNS! FROM THE U.S.! GOOD GRIEF, MARCH ALL OF THEM TO MORDOR AND THROW THEM INTO MOUNT DOOM IMMEDIATELY!!!" (and in little letters or no letters, "TRUST THE GOVERNMENT/THE POLICE TO SAVE YOU, ALWAYS! AND ALSO TO NEVER BECOME TYRANNICAL") but that's never going to happen. And again, nor should it. So what's your alternative? Like, seriously. Nothing? Just wait for the next shooting so you can get mad at the guns again, rather than actually present practical solutions (or at least measures) to prevent kids from getting shot up like fish in a barrel? That's your plan? This mentality is disgusting to me.

The sad thing is there is/our solutions out there, even with out your "Mt Doom" scenario.

A complete ban in the US would be beyond difficult, the proverbial toothpaste back in the tube.

The fact is the 1994 assault weapon ban did work and it was allowed to lapse and the mass shootings rates (no pun intended) shoot up.

https://newhampshirebulletin.com/202...gs-commentary/

Arming teachers, perhaps teachers don't want to armed, they choose to be educators. Also if there is an active shooter on campus, when the authorities arrive on site then have no way of decerning whom is the active shooter and who is the "good guy with gun".

Hey if my mentality is disgusting to you, so be it.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I would say in regard to the first part, not a very generous definition of "war" but the very real one. In the minds of psychopaths like this one. They really did decide to go to war. In the same way you'd join up and fight the Nazis in WWII with the full knowledge that you'll most likely die on the battlefield but still feel righteous in doing so. In this case, a chickensh** level of "I'm going to blow away little kids and then off myself and maybe delete this later" for -- in their minds -- the greater good.

Except Germany was a sovereign nation with a military of 10+ million and a large civilian population and WWII was a long series of major skirmishes with willing and conscripted combatants on both sides.

I don’t think these people are trying to start a revolution. They’re not organized. They’re just terminally online losers who want their name to mean something before they go.

Definitely not that trans people should be ostracized and shunned. I'm friends with many trans. Trans that are pretty "real" about stuff and don't like people speaking on their behalf. My last movie literally starred a trans woman in the lead role. I just feel compelled to shine a light after years and years of being told "Nuh-no, only white corn-fed white guys who probably want to overthrow Biden are the REAL threat!" that... well... you know. Here you go. We see a new pattern forming, and it ain't us. You guys loved to make a circus about this years ago or any time since, so here it is. Fair media time. Let's not let you hide from it. And this is far more to do with the "radicalized dude by the left-wing media" (really, a Church, which is ironic) than anything to do with what he wants to do with his gender or anything like that.

Understood. I feel you.

I don’t know that you’re winning over any hearts or minds this way, but you’re not wrong.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by member_removed

Arming teachers, perhaps teachers don't want to armed, they choose to be educators.

#1, if we're agreeing to arm teachers in case of emergency then that wouldn't be something that's negotiable. They can cry about it to their pathetic teacher's unions and be sent packing. #2, if not the teachers, then we go back to my armed security or police presence.

Also if there is an active shooter on campus, when the authorities arrive on site then have no way of decerning whom is the active shooter and who is the "good guy with gun".

Ah, so it's much better then to second guess police knowing how to do their jobs and to do, instead, absolutely nothing to defend or protect the kids and wait for the next shooting to get mad at the guns again. Gottit. Yes, disgusting.

[IndigoErth]

Time to get bulletproof glass in schools and so-called "soft targets" like that church. Fortunately, their doors were supposedly locked and it would have been so much worse had the shooter gotten inside.

Would do a lot of good if "the system" in general and those around people like this stopped being so indifferent. Bits and pieces I've heard in passing doesn't sound like this person was entirely silent on having urges to hurt people, esp kids. Need to grow as a culture and stop shrugging it off when someone has a history of saying/posting garbage that clearly isn't just venting and goes too far.

[Barkworm]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

#1, if we're agreeing to arm teachers in case of emergency then that wouldn't be something that's negotiable. #2, if not the teachers, then we go back to my armed security or police presence.



Ah, so it's much better then to second guess police knowing how to do their jobs and to do, instead, absolutely nothing to defend or protect the kids and wait for the next shooting to get mad at the guns again. Gottit. Yes, disgusting.

Look, no one is interested in taking your man toys away. Because - as member_ removed has pointed out - that is not even a possibility. People are talking about sensible rules for them. You and the rest of the gun lobby don't want that because you are so afraid that any rule might mean you could lose your precious guns. That's more important to your kind than any lives lost in any shooting.

And THAT right there is the disgusting mentality.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Time to get bulletproof glass in schools and so-called "soft targets" like that church.

I mean, that'd be SOMETHING, at least. It's not nothing.

Originally Posted by Barkworm

Look, no one is interested in taking your man toys away. Because - as member_ removed has pointed out - that is not even a possibility. People are talking about sensible rules for them. You and the rest of the gun lobby don't want that because you are so afraid that any rule might mean you could lose your precious guns. That's more important to your kind than any lives lost in any shooting.

And THAT right there is the disgusting mentality.

I'll play. What are the sensible (or as is truly sickeningly put often, "common sense") rules or laws that would have stopped this latest shooter from getting their guns? By all accounts, until pretty much the end the person seemed to be living a pretty normal life and went through the appropriate background checks and waiting periods and all. Red flag laws (which are a pretty extreme form of gun control and can be applied extremely unjustly) were in place there but were never deployed because the person didn't do anything nutty enough to warrant that.

Originally Posted by sdp

"Stories I hear"
Clearly you've never been to both Colombia and Mexico, your posts says it all.

Dude, I have doubts you ever even leave your room much.

[CyberCubed]

I remember Columbine happened when I was in like 6th grade and back then it was so shocking that it felt like a school shooting had never really happened before. Now I'm sure it did in the early 90's (?) but this was the first "big" one I remember. I remember everyone being so shocked something like that could happen in school. Since then I've heard about school shootings almost every year after I left High School. It honestly seemed to increase after the early 2000's.

[Barkworm]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I'll play. What are the sensible (or as is truly sickeningly put often, "common sense") rules or laws that would have stopped this latest shooter from getting their guns?

Honestly? I have no idea. Anything that applies to any other country doesn't work for the US because of the insane amount of guns you people have.

But I think it's clear to anyone that what you have is not working at all. And that is all that people who are calling for stricter gun laws are pointing out. It's not a "culture war" at all, at least not on the side of the people who want fewer mass shootings. Not wanting people to be killed is not a culture. Having a pemanent hard-on for guns is one.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Barkworm

Honestly? I have no idea. Anything that applies to any other country doesn't work for the US because of the insane amount of guns you people have.

And this is after you admit guns are a given? But I think it's clear to anyone that what we have is not working at all. And that is all that people who are calling for stricter gun laws are pointing out. It's not a "culture war" at all, at least not on the side of the people who want fewer mass shootings. Not wanting people to be killed is not a culture. Having a pemanent hard-on for guns is one.

Of course it isn't working. Because people like you here refuse to acknowledge we need guns to protect children from other people with guns... or offer any solutions to a country that has a 2nd amendment in a time where the left is forcing an identity and nuclear family meltdown. You hide behind the idea that the very concept of this is alien to you, but that's B.S.. There absolutely are very real solutions that could treat our schools like banks. Who would be against that? Yet you just sit there and glower from afar... and again... wait for the next shooting so you can yell about the guns again and how much of an eden your country is where there's no guns and knife laws. In some hope that... things will change. I know you said you have accepted we'll always have guns but... but... you don't REALLY... there's allllways that hope that MAAAYBEE we'll "evolve" to be like you with just the right president or whatnot and we make that climb on Mount Doom one day and high five Australia, because they're doing so great.

It's honestly a pretty weird cycle. Your types sit there and prune and talk down from high altars while sometimes even admitting as you did that "oh, well I admit we'll never pry the guns from you primitive savages in the US" but you don't offer any solutions. Ever. It's just angry fortune cookies that amount to "maybe in a more enlightened future like us in X country you won't have this problem!"

You pretend to want a solution but all you have when cornered is "idk!!! I just like to talk about guns are bad! Often! When asked. Sorry, I'll be quiet until the next shooting and do it again. Whaaaat, added security measures to protect kids?? That's insane!! It'll probably mess them up! (as opposed to them being dead, I guess? what, my kids? I don't have any)" And so on. Every. Single. Time.

stfu. Seriously.