Avatar - James Cameron says 4 sequels on the way.

[IMJ]

I honestly can't decide if people actually do like this I.P. that much or if it's just "event hype". I've still only seen the first one, never bought it, didn't care when the sequel dropped.

I will say that I remember the VFX being practically photo-real in a way that you usually only see in the best of Ridley Scott material (usually better than Cameron). But I mean... that's it. The story was fine, but cliche as hell. I just don't care - tired of the anti-colonizer stories. It's like the lowest hanging fruit of all-time.

[sdp]

Well Part 2 came out to no hype at all as well and it still did 2 billion post pandemic silently with not many talking about it, so I wouldn't bet against this movie either.

Didn't they film 3-5 together? So they'd basically would still release the other 4/5 if 3 bombs? I'm sure Cameron would just put his own money to release them all if it failed. 4 has to be fairly advanced already and they wouldn't just pull the plug on a final part of the highest grossing movie of all time.

I'll wait until the final one is about to release before I rewatch the original and watch for the first time all the sequels.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by sdp

Didn't they film 3-5 together? So they'd basically would still release the other 4/5 if 3 bombs?

Cameron sure made it sound like they did at the time. Now he's backpeddled and suggested the stuff he shot for 4 and 5 at the same time as 2 and 3 was just fairly minor stuff for "connective, flashback" type of material.

But 100%, Cameron would probably move heaven and earth to find a way to finish 4 and 5 regardless.

[frank_one]

I find it impressive that a man as creative as Cameron can dedicate so many of the last years of his life to a single project.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by frank_one

I find it impressive that a man as creative as Cameron can dedicate so many of the last years of his life to a single project.

To me it's sad. We got SO MUCH great output from Cameron in a relatively short amount of time (Terminator, T2, The Abyss, True Lies, Titanic)... and then after that nothing from him for 25, 26 years but Avatar. Titanic really changed him. If he hadn't have gotten obsessed with the ocean imagine all of the other great, unique movies we could have gotten from him.

And no, giving notes that were barely even listened to for Terminator: Woke Fart doesn't count, nor does just finding money for Robert Rodriguez in Alita.

[IMJ]

I think it's a little sad too to be honest.

He was a creative force and now he wants his legacy to basically be remembered as an anti-colonizer, somewhat boring tall blue native story.

I mean honestly who cares about these characters as opposed to the "event and hype"? I'm sure they exist but I don't know nor basically knowingly ever interact with a die-hard Avatar fan.

[neatoman]

This third movie was a bit... More of the same. Jake has to lead all the animal buddies in an attack on the human machinery on top of that big pterodactyl, literally the same thing as the climax from the first movie except now it's the ocean. I have basically the same problem with this climax as I did with the first one, I find it really questionable that these flesh and blood creatures can just ram into war machines and actually win. I know they're aliens and are not necessarily made of the same stuff, but it looks a lot like what I imagine rhinos and whales crushing tanks and battle cruisers by simply slamming into them would look like, I just don't buy it.

It's in the trailers, so I don't think I'm spoiling a lot but I might as well put the next part in spoiler tags anyway.

Spoiler:

Yes, Spider is inherently a liability and is likely going to be the centre of the conflict going forward. At first he's a problem because of the whole thing about needing a mask but then he gains the ability to breathe Pandora atmosphere, at which point it turns to him being a problem because his new ability could potentially be studied and copied. The way it works doesn't get a full explanation because it gets interrupted but it is confirmed that he grew a symbiotic life-form, grown from one of those jellyfish-dandylion things, in his lungs that filter the air for him and doesn't seem to have any impact on his ability to breathe earth atmosphere. So because this is something that is "in him" but not "part of him", it does seem likely that something like that could be made artificially. So if he needs to gets captured or if they have enough data to work from is unclear, the point is that they're definitely going to attempt to recreate this ability in future movies.

Also, this too is implied by the trailers but might as well be in spoiler tags as well.

Spoiler:

Yes, Quaritch's arc in this movie is basically a twisted mirror version of what was going on with Jake in the first one. It's actually a lot more interesting than Jake's arc because he's clearly a lot more loyal from the start and the ash tribe actually showing interest in human ways does have some interesting turns. Not sure if it elevates the movie but it's at least interesting to see this warped version of what happened in the first one.

[Andrew NDB]

But does it truly feel like the satisfying end of a trilogy, as Cameron is saying it was designed to be?

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

But does it truly feel like the satisfying end of a trilogy, as Cameron is saying it was designed to be?

I should probably note here that I'm not all that impressed by anything other than the technological achievements with any of these movies, so I don't really like the plots of any of them. So note that when reading the following, if you liked the plots then you may very well have a different opinion.

Spoiler:

I would say it's not all that satisfying as potential conclusion for the series in case there aren't any further sequels. It's not a worse movie than the previous ones but it's not like it does that much to be conclusive.

The whaling fleet is destroyed and the whales no longer cling to the pacifism that made them easy targets, so I guess that particular plot line is concluded unless one assumes the humans adopt better equipment and tactics for the future. Much of this movie feels more like an extension of the second one than it's own thing and like I said previously, the climax is basically a variation of the one from the first one. The humans are still out there and if the events of the first one was a mere setback, then clearly they will always just come back. We do find out, in part, that Kiri is a clone of Grace's Avatar, which was kind of obvious to begin with, but we still don't know why for sure. Quarritch "dies" again but in a far more ambiguous way this time, so he's obviously still intended to be alive, his arc clearly isn't finished and you'd have to be a complete fool to assume he's not coming back again.

And of course, the whole thing with Spider means the humans are just more keen on colonising Pandora than ever before, because now there is a chance they may not need to rely on machines to breathe or go through a terraforming process. The logical conclusion is that the series must continue until it's either impossible for humanity to colonise Pandora or if becomes possible to do so in a sustainable way.

[Andrew NDB]

Saw it.

Spoiler:

Yeah, I didn't want to believe it would be a retread but beyond a lot of the character arcs it pretty much is. Structurally it follows the beats of Way of Water and when it doesn't then it is following the beats of the first movie. There's the big battle towards the middle that sends all the good guys into dissarray, there's the new animals who seem like a threat who unite to help the good guys in the end, will Quaritch have a face turn or won't he (they still don't give an answer), there's prayers to Eiwah that get answered at the end and it all ends up on ANOTHER burning sea-ship like the end of the last one. Same exact model and all.

The big new ingredient is the fire clan people. That's like the only new thing here. And nobody dies except the pregnant Kate Winslet character. I thought we were at least going to get a grand fight with Neytiri vs. the crazy fire clan lady like they were clearly setting up but it never happens. No, if Avatar ends with this movie it isn't a remotely satisfying ending because nothing changes. The military is still there and are sure to be enraged into retaliation even further, the fire clan will surely come back for revenge after this... nothing at all is "wrapped up."

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Saw it.

Spoiler:

Yeah, I didn't want to believe it would be a retread but beyond a lot of the character arcs it pretty much is. Structurally it follows the beats of Way of Water and when it doesn't then it is following the beats of the first movie. There's the big battle towards the middle that sends all the good guys into dissarray, there's the new animals who seem like a threat who unite to help the good guys in the end, will Quaritch have a face turn or won't he (they still don't give an answer), there's prayers to Eiwah that get answered at the end and it all ends up on ANOTHER burning sea-ship like the end of the last one. Same exact model and all.

The big new ingredient is the fire clan people. That's like the only new thing here. And nobody dies except the pregnant Kate Winslet character. I thought we were at least going to get a grand fight with Neytiri vs. the crazy fire clan lady like they were clearly setting up but it never happens. No, if Avatar ends with this movie it isn't a remotely satisfying ending because nothing changes. The military is still there and are sure to be enraged into retaliation even there, the fire clan will surely come back for revenge after this... nothing at all is "wrapped up."

Cameron's making at least two more movies after this, it was never going to wrap up here

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Cameron's making at least two more movies after this, it was never going to wrap up here

Yeah, but he's been publicly -- and suddenly -- been talking about he is OK to walk way from Avatar now if this one doesn't make enough to fulfill what needs to happen for 4 and 5, and even if it does, he will still "direct" but he might step way back in what he did with these last two so he can focus on other stuff. Like another Terminator movie. Earlier it was a WWII thing.

All of this to say probably he's just laid breadcrumbs to basically slightly give reins to others on Avatar while still ABSOLUTELY finding a way to finish this all, while moving on to other stuff more directly. So he's not just Avatar Guy for another 10 years. While also creating a shield to where if Fire & Ash really does badly he can say this was his plan all along, just the same.

[CyberCubed]

The first Avatar was a novelty at the time (it was one of the first movies in 3D in theaters, right?), and the story was just ok. It was really seeing the world of Pandora that drew people in. But after that it's just an average story, basically Pocahontas with aliens.

After that, the second one was really subpar, and I don't know about the third, let alone a 4th or 5th? I have no idea what the hype is.

[Andrew NDB]

A very interesting interview of Cameron by Michael Biehn. Who has a podcast now, apparently. I kept it on in the background while I was wrapping presents today and it was actually pretty insightful. It's a lot of lowball questions and Biehn clearly, clearly with hurt feelings that Cameron ultimately does his best to clear up and it ends with some really awkward Abyss shooting talk. It's very engaging and worth a listen, IMO.

Also, Cameron's candid opinions on Newt and all getting killed off in Alien 3.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The first Avatar was a novelty at the time (it was one of the first movies in 3D in theaters, right?), and the story was just ok. It was really seeing the world of Pandora that drew people in. But after that it's just an average story, basically Pocahontas with aliens.

Dude, there was 3D movies in the theaters in the 80s. Have you not heard of Jaws 3-D? Friday the 13th 3-D? But Avatar definitely blew a whole generation away with THAT 3D. Modern 3D. It definitely blew me away. I can only speak for myself (and I don't get too caught up in the anti-colonialism stuff like a lot of people do who hate these movies just for that) but it was like the best possible gut punch in the cinematic experience, while at the same time throwing us into this whole new vibrant alien world. With possibilities. And cute catgirls and all of that stuff.

Remember, again, all the people apparently killing themselves around Avatar's release because they wanted to go off and live on Pandora. The people saying this didn't have a cultural impact are wrong.

After that, the second one was really subpar, and I don't know about the third, let alone a 4th or 5th? I have no idea what the hype is.

Well, you won't get much of an argument from me now. Especially after seeing this third movie. If I had to honestly and best describe the Avatar phenomenon, it's a generation that was truly wowed by the 3D tech Cameron brought in 2009 combined with that alien world and its like a high that that group is always chasing. I wish I could say 2 and 3 might be pulling in a new generation and maybe they are, but idk. I think the general idea is the same audience that was WOWED by everything in 2009 now had kids of their own in 2025 about the same ages as the kids in 2 and 3, so they'll be uniquely tapped into the new stuff. Meanwhile, the audiences who didn't like Avatar 1 or didn't see it and/or just post about "It's just Ferngully recycled!" and never had kids in the intervening years and probably never will by this point aren't going to find anything new or good in this.

[sdp]

Avatar just makes me nostalgic about the time I finished High School and not knowing what was going on with my life. It was the movie that invented 3D and people forget that. It revived the movie industry, I remember every movie after it got converted to 3D, and then new movies were filmed specifically in 3D.

I personally really loved watching movies in 3D and still do, thanks to VR you can actually watch all those 3D movies the way they were meant to be in a giant screen.

[Andrew NDB]

Avatar 3 is at 805 million worldwide, 227 million domestic.

https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/f...ar#tab=summary

So far it's trending EXACTLY the same as the first movie, weekend to weekend. Which is to say it is not trending like the second movie, which opened bigger and splashier than the first movie but didn't have QUITE the same legs. Either way, definitely too early to call it on part 3.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Avatar 3 is at 805 million worldwide, 227 million domestic.

https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/f...ar#tab=summary

So far it's trending EXACTLY the same as the first movie, weekend to weekend. Which is to say it is not trending like the second movie, which opened bigger and splashier than the first movie but didn't have QUITE the same legs. Either way, definitely too early to call it on part 3.

Yeah, I just checked and some people here in stockholm have bought tickets up to the 12th of January. This thing is probably going to continue selling tickets for quite some time.

[sdp]

but like Avatar 2 no one is talking about the movie, it's odd. You can't say the same for Avatar 1, everyone talked about it.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by sdp

but like Avatar 2 no one is talking about the movie, it's odd. You can't say the same for Avatar 1, everyone talked about it.

People say this a lot, but with big juggernaut movies... IS there a lot of banter about them after they come out? Like Top Gun: Maverick. Undeniably huge box office, great movie. But it's not like we all saw it and came back to the boards to debate the finer points of anything in it. Like 3 guys posted here. There's more posts about Avatar 3 already here than anything about that movie.

[sdp]

I've never seen top gun nor the sequel but i knew the sequel did huge numbers because people were talking about it on twitter/reddit/discord