The Death of Cartridge Collecting

[ThirdMarioBro]

Rant time. I may be an editorial columnist, but here around my crew, I say whatever I please, using as crude of language as I want.

Here's the deal. Sony and Microsoft think this is the last generation of consoles to have disc drives. They're full of sh*t, and we all know that. End of rant. Now, moving on. Discs are here to stay, and each new successive format retains the 3.5cm compact disc width for the sake of consumer convenience. Nintendo fu*ked up making the GameCube discs 1.5cm, but they found a solution with drives that can read format of multiple sizes. Problem solved. That means our disc collections have long term value....bleh, don't even know what any of this have to do with my topic....oh yeah.

I'm abandoning cartridge collecting completely. I haven't bought an old one in over a year or more. I used to grab some old console games here and there that I missed, but subconsciously over time I realized there is no point anymore. Each console literally was its own format, none of which were inter-compatible, and that means they are dependent on the existence and functionality of their own hardware. My Genesis died a long time ago. The cheap copper contacts on the cartridges rub away after repeated insertions. Half my Genesis collection is dead, and I see no need to replace them. I've noticed my Super NES games starting to get a little funky from time to time, so I stopped playing them. The NES...... Squeezing those carts into that tight top loader wears out their cheap-ass contacts 200% faster. I patched everything up as best I could, and put it all away. I didn't keep them all in the same place as my Xbox 360 and Wii when they were hooked up, because I only used them occasionally, but now I see no point to keep them hooked up at all. Its all aging, and its all going to wear out eventually.

I'd like for my children to get to play with the relics of my childhood, because I see different eras of my life when I look at each of those old machines. I'd like to see my children's faces when I look at my old consoles too.

With discs, age is never going to be a problem with the future, so I'll continue to collect games from consoles. There is no friction, and no contacts, and no deterioration with proper care. Electronics seem to be keeping the standard CD size, so there is no worry to those who collect CD games. Besides, you can just rip the stuff if the electronics industry wants to move on (looks sneakily at PSP). As for my old cartridge games, Virtual Console + Xbox Live Arcade = win. There's something about the thought of having all of my Nintendo collection on one box, even if a few will be missing. Of course there will be lots of games that are too tangled up in legalities to release ever again (coughRarecough). Some aren't worth anything other than historical value now (coughgoldeneyecough) and some are. For those special few, we've got the home brew community to watch our back.

Regardless, I feel the age of the cartridge collector has officially passed. The days of the silicon chunks contained within a plastic shell may be gone, but we can now rest assured that the data that was on them will live forever; long after when the copper plating has finally rubbed off those old silicon boards.

[Peanut]

You must have played the hell out of your old games. The only game I ever had quit on me was Mega Man 2, but one day it just started working again.

I agree with everything you said though. I was close to buying a brand new 64 not too long ago, just to play my old 64 games, but after getting MK64 on the VC...I gave up on the thought of it. The only thing still left out is my SNES, but I don't reckon that'll last much longer.

[ThirdMarioBro]

Yeah, there is honestly no way to go back to the N64 after playing Block Fort in high rez 16:9 with the classic controller. The games are timeless, their hardware is not.

And who wants to play Super Mario Bros. like that anymore?


And if you've ever seen that fan made Ocarina of Time mod with high-rez textures and smoothed out models...sweet Jesus. I love playing my originals on real consoles, because Roms just feel.....I dunno...dirty? That, and I like being legal. Still, every so often some fan does something crazy like this.



Ocarina of Time cel-shaded



Mario 64 cel-shaded.

[LogicDonny]

Originally Posted by ThirdMarioBro

Yeah, there is honestly no way to go back to the N64 after playing Block Fort in high rez 16:9 with the classic controller. The games are timeless, their hardware is not.

And who wants to play Super Mario Bros. like that anymore?


And if you've ever seen that fan made Ocarina of Time mod with high-rez textures and smoothed out models...sweet Jesus. I love playing my originals on real consoles, because Roms just feel.....I dunno...dirty? That, and I like being legal. Still, every so often some fan does something crazy like this.



Ocarina of Time cel-shaded



Mario 64 cel-shaded.

wow is this homebrew stuff or rom stuff? explain.

um anyways, carts are still good. they load much much faster than a disc, they don't stratch.

also discs can die from data rot and if you scratch them.. I have a copy of star ocean I got at a flea market, the first disc was scratched so deep the movies dont play and crash on me so I had to get a new copy..

so yea carts ftw.

[Spitfire]

Disks last forever if you take good care of them. Carts have a battery in them and they die out after awhile, to my knowledge can't be replaced either.

[LogicDonny]

Originally Posted by Spitfire666xXxXx

Disks last forever if you take good care of them. Carts have a battery in them and they die out after awhile, to my knowledge can't be replaced either.

that was before EE-FROM or something a flash memory that later carts use..

Old nes and snes carts batteries are easily replaceable.

also yes disks will last but the laser can still scratch a disc.

[Spitfire]

Okay, I'm talking about SNES carts dude. Not pirated crap, and further more disks produce way better graphics.

[LogicDonny]

Originally Posted by Spitfire666xXxXx

Okay, I'm talking about SNES carts dude. Not pirated crap, and further more disks produce way better graphics.

wtf i wasn't even talking about pirating snes carts.. real carts uses batteries and those can be replaced easily.

also the later carts on n64 or gba all use ee-form or osmething.. it's a flash memory thing..

[ThirdMarioBro]

You're both screwed up. First of all, its EEP-ROM (flash). Second, cartridge/disc has nothing to do with graphics, but rather how much data can be stored. Rom cartridges can hold as much as CD's and more, but at a higher cost. Flash cards can exceed DVD capacity, but again, at higher costs. Carts also do not die when the battery "backup" goes. You just loose your ability to save your progress, and they can be replaced with a little know-how.

None of that sh*t is worth the trouble though when you've got digital replacements.

[Krang]

Originally Posted by ThirdMarioBro

Regardless, I feel the age of the cartridge collector has officially passed. The days of the silicon chunks contained within a plastic shell may be gone, but we can now rest assured that the data that was on them will live forever; long after when the copper plating has finally rubbed off those old silicon boards.

Hmm, my Genesis and some of the games I have for it are around 13 years old and still work great. I guess some people have better luck than others with how long their games and related equipment last. While I agree with you that discs generally have a longer life span than cartridges, I personally won't be packing up my carts anytime soon in favor of technology like the Virtual Console and classic game compilations for several reasons.

First, you generally aren't able to use the same controller that the game was designed for. In most cases, the button layouts are different, which could be distracting and could lead to awkward hand placement.

Second, while the most popular games get attention, the lesser-known titles are usually forgotten. As much as I love the classic Sonic and Mario series, I am also a fan of games like Blades of Vengeance, Soldiers of Fortune, and Tempo, none of which will probably ever be in a compilation or on the VC.

Third, the accuracy of emulation varies greatly. I've seen compilations that have had near-perfect emulation, but others aren't quite right, which changes the overall feel of the game. I haven't tried the VC yet, but I hope that it has accurate enough emulation to not be a distraction.

So while I appreciate the attempts to keep classic games around, I still think the original consoles and cartridges have a purpose as well.

[LogicDonny]

Originally Posted by Krang

Hmm, my Genesis and some of the games I have for it are around 13 years old and still work great. I guess some people have better luck than others with how long their games and related equipment last. While I agree with you that discs generally have a longer life span than cartridges, I personally won't be packing up my carts anytime soon in favor of technology like the Virtual Console and classic game compilations for several reasons.

First, you generally aren't able to use the same controller that the game was designed for. In most cases, the button layouts are different, which could be distracting and could lead to awkward hand placement.

Second, while the most popular games get attention, the lesser-known titles are usually forgotten. As much as I love the classic Sonic and Mario series, I am also a fan of games like Blades of Vengeance, Soldiers of Fortune, and Tempo, none of which will probably ever be in a compilation or on the VC.

Third, the accuracy of emulation varies greatly. I've seen compilations that have had near-perfect emulation, but others aren't quite right, which changes the overall feel of the game. I haven't tried the VC yet, but I hope that it has accurate enough emulation to not be a distraction.

So while I appreciate the attempts to keep classic games around, I still think the original consoles and cartridges have a purpose as well.

Krang once again nails it on the button. nice post.

My nes games are still in excellent condition.. even gyruss a game I own for a really long time since I got my first nes which was broken in pieces the cover gray thingy taped back together still works like a charm.

[ThirdMarioBro]

Originally Posted by Krang

Hmm, my Genesis and some of the games I have for it are around 13 years old and still work great. I guess some people have better luck than others with how long their games and related equipment last. While I agree with you that discs generally have a longer life span than cartridges, I personally won't be packing up my carts anytime soon in favor of technology like the Virtual Console and classic game compilations for several reasons.

First, you generally aren't able to use the same controller that the game was designed for. In most cases, the button layouts are different, which could be distracting and could lead to awkward hand placement.

Second, while the most popular games get attention, the lesser-known titles are usually forgotten. As much as I love the classic Sonic and Mario series, I am also a fan of games like Blades of Vengeance, Soldiers of Fortune, and Tempo, none of which will probably ever be in a compilation or on the VC.

Third, the accuracy of emulation varies greatly. I've seen compilations that have had near-perfect emulation, but others aren't quite right, which changes the overall feel of the game. I haven't tried the VC yet, but I hope that it has accurate enough emulation to not be a distraction.

So while I appreciate the attempts to keep classic games around, I still think the original consoles and cartridges have a purpose as well.

Well, their purpose will only be useful as long as the hardware exists, and the hardware has a finite lifespan. I agree that compilation disc emulation is usually garbage. They don't put enough effort into the job for the few games at hand, and Sega has even been known to steal some fan emulator code for their compliations, which is underhanded, and cheap. The FM sound emulation is always wonky, and the framerate is never consistant. Still, VC emulation is practically perfect. Knowing Sega's reputation for cheaping out, Nintendo writes all the emulators for VC themselves, and I haven't noticed anything different. They don't enhance the emulation either (except on N64, which is an understandable exception). The NES still has 22KHz sound (good ears, I can tell) and sprites flicker as they should, and you can still crash Super Mario Bros with the flagpole glitch. SNES is still 32Khz sound, and slows down in all the places it used to. I can't find anything with Genesis emulation so far, which is a relief after the crap Sega programmed on that PS2 set. TurboGrafx had a couple of flaws at first, but they seem to have patched it up nicely from what I can tell. They've also been releasing a healthy supply of obscure stuff along hits. For like three weeks there, it was almost nothing but Shmups, which both surprised and pleased me. They're also adding to the old console libraries with Treasure developing a few exclusive "new classic" titles to be revealed soon. But like I said, if the old hardware wears out, and the titles never become available legally, there are other means.

Still, I could never get rid of my old hardware. I love 'em too much, and like you said, they will always be the superior venue to play. I just realize they will eventually break down, parts aren't available, and I need to find alternate ways to preserve my games.

[Mr. Snackpants]

I was just thinking about this a few weeks ago when my SNES started to screw up. I can't save on any of my games and if something hits it while it's on it'll reset. This got me pretty depressed, wondering how long the systems from my childhood would last. Sure, I'll buy all the good games that come along on the VC, but there's nothing like playing it on the original system with the original controllers. Plus, half of my collection won't make it to VC. So just last week I bought a basically brand new SNES with the original box. I put that, along with all my games in storage. I'm looking for a new NES now so I can do the same. I guess I'm weird like that.

[LogicDonny]

I was very pleased with the emulation on sonic mega collection for gamecube when I got it.. I found no probs.

Also sega genesis collection emulation is perfect in fact.

Digitial Eclipse sure knows their stuff.

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by ThirdMarioBro

You're both screwed up. First of all, its EEP-ROM (flash). Second, cartridge/disc has nothing to do with graphics, but rather how much data can be stored. Rom cartridges can hold as much as CD's and more, but at a higher cost. Flash cards can exceed DVD capacity, but again, at higher costs. Carts also do not die when the battery "backup" goes. You just loose your ability to save your progress, and they can be replaced with a little know-how.

None of that sh*t is worth the trouble though when you've got digital replacements.

I stand corrected then, I was lead to believe otherwise.

I did however always know carts were way more durable then CDs. My friend washed his pants with a Castlevania game in it one time and the thing still works. Washed his Hunters too haha

[ThirdMarioBro]

Originally Posted by Spitfire666xXxXx

I stand corrected then, I was lead to believe otherwise.

I did however always know carts were way more durable then CDs. My friend washed his pants with a Castlevania game in it one time and the thing still works. Washed his Hunters too haha

Haha, yup. I'm guilty of that too. Tetris DS and Gunstar Super Heroes wound up in the washer and dryer six months ago. Cartridges can take a hell of a beating.

[Deathknight]

Honestly I own a ton of cartridges and none of them have ever died on me. The only trouble I have is my copy of MegaMan X2 is now pretty difficult to boot. I'll never replace my carts. They're the original versions and I prefer to play them that way. If it looks crisper it's an added bonus but it doesn't add anything to gameplay. Playing NES games with any other type of controller be it the classic controller, GBA, Gamecube, or etc, I never can play quite as well as I can with my NES controller. Also really pisses me off that you can't customize controls in NES games on the virtual console (or can you, I haven't found a way.) Almost all of my carts boot perfectly, I have no need for discs if I have carts.

[Krang]

Originally Posted by ThirdMarioBro

Well, their purpose will only be useful as long as the hardware exists, and the hardware has a finite lifespan.

I see your point, but there's always eBay if your system or games wear out. Sure, there will eventually be a point where all classic consoles and games will be extremely rare, but hopefully that won't happen for a long time.

I agree that compilation disc emulation is usually garbage. They don't put enough effort into the job for the few games at hand, and Sega has even been known to steal some fan emulator code for their compliations, which is underhanded, and cheap. The FM sound emulation is always wonky, and the framerate is never consistant.

To be fair, Sega did buy the source code for that emulator, but yes, that was cheap of them. They should know the hardware better than anyone, so they should be the ones to program it, and there are no excuses for some of the inaccuracies that have shown up in some of their compilations. Speaking of which, I've been really disappointed in Midway's emulation on their various compilations and as bonus features in some of their games. You would think the testers would have noticed the frequent freezes and choppy gameplay...

Still, VC emulation is practically perfect. Knowing Sega's reputation for cheaping out, Nintendo writes all the emulators for VC themselves, and I haven't noticed anything different. They don't enhance the emulation either (except on N64, which is an understandable exception). The NES still has 22KHz sound (good ears, I can tell) and sprites flicker as they should, and you can still crash Super Mario Bros with the flagpole glitch. SNES is still 32Khz sound, and slows down in all the places it used to. I can't find anything with Genesis emulation so far, which is a relief after the crap Sega programmed on that PS2 set. TurboGrafx had a couple of flaws at first, but they seem to have patched it up nicely from what I can tell.

That's good to hear. One advantage the VC has over disc compilations is the fact that the emulators can be updated with the firmware.

They've also been releasing a healthy supply of obscure stuff along hits. For like three weeks there, it was almost nothing but Shmups, which both surprised and pleased me. They're also adding to the old console libraries with Treasure developing a few exclusive "new classic" titles to be revealed soon. But like I said, if the old hardware wears out, and the titles never become available legally, there are other means.

Glad to hear it. There are only so many popular titles they can release, so maybe once those are all out, they will release more of the lesser known titles (still hoping for Parasol Stars on the VC). And I'm looking forward to hearing more about the new games by Treasure.

Still, I could never get rid of my old hardware. I love 'em too much, and like you said, they will always be the superior venue to play. I just realize they will eventually break down, parts aren't available, and I need to find alternate ways to preserve my games.

I agree, and I fully support the VC as a means of preserving the classic games and as a convenient way to play them for people who have their classic consoles packed away.

[LogicDonny]

What amazes me is the way that ign reported one of the VC game released had a bug, and nintendo went right away and got it fixed and provided a patch which made me smile becuase this is good.

[MrPliggins]

which game was this? I noticed when I downloaded Zelda: A Link to the Past, there were some slowdowns which seem to have now disappeared.