Chris Benoit found dead

[Barkworm]

Are some people here really trying to play down the fact that this guy killed his family??? I mean, I can understand how you feel after your idol turned out to be a complete nut-case but it's f*cking murder we're talking about here. Not manslaughter, MURDER. There is no excuse.

[KROW]

Originally Posted by Barkworm

Are some people here really trying to play down the fact that this guy killed his family??? I mean, I can understand how you feel after your idol turned out to be a complete nut-case but it's f*cking murder we're talking about here. Not manslaughter, MURDER. There is no excuse.

His actions were deplorable, but I think some of us are trying to uphold a sense of decency by looking at and analyzing the facts while others are spouting things like, "He's a sick nut-job," "I hope he burns in Hell," "He could've done this or that instead," and so on. Just disregarding the details and seeing it as, "He killed his family, so he ain't worth a damn in any respect" and in the same vein judging him is one-sided when there are still many facets to consider in this tragedy -- facets that might never be known.

We know what happened and we stated flat-out that this is a horrible thing. Now we're discussing the possible reasons why while there are still people who refuse to see the other side of the story. It's not defending his actions nor down-playing the incident nor is it trying to find an excuse, it's looking for a measure of understanding that the ignorant here just won't even try to comprehend.

[X]

Yea but Krow, the thing in life now is, someone can always find a way to blame anything for peoples actions.

It's like what Chris Rock says in his standup "Bigger and Blacker." "What ever happened to just being crazy?"

Back before attorneys could tell all the kids, "blame Grand Theft Auto for your actions, they'll lessen the sentence, and cry plea of insanity," there was just being loony.

Now people can always blame drugs, for the reason why someone acted, when in truth, the very first time Benoit picked up a drug, he had the options -

A. Using it.

B. Not using it.

So if drugs were involved and he became a druggy then that was his own fault for spitting in everyones face just to feel good by being drugged up.

Here let's say this. Why in the hell would you want to be a professional wrestler if somewhere in there Steroids had to be involved? Is a job or career worth all of that, and totally forgetting any potential side effects of the substance? He had a choice yet again, but cared obviously more about himself, then anyone else.

If this is related to regular drugs, then again, he is selfish for thinking about himself over family and getting involved and picking up that first drug when he could've sought help. Like I've said, I have had issues in life, some bad, some not so bad, but I have never resorted to other methods to take my mind off any stressful situation.

Point blank though bro, is now adays everyones blaming anything they can, instead of blaming the person for acting foolish in any regard to dangerous subtance abuse or cookyness.

-X-

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by X

Like I've said, I have had issues in life, some bad, some not so bad, but I have never resorted to other methods to take my mind off any stressful situation.

Hey, Bathalemew, write this on the chalkboard so the sane members of the class can force feed it to you in the playground

YOU ARE NOT A PROFESSIONAL WRESTLER


YOU ARE NOT A PROFESSIONAL WRESTLER


YOU ARE NOT A PROFESSIONAL WRESTLER


Repeat that in your head 9000 times and then maybe, god maybe, you'll realize you are in NO posistion to sit on some high horse saying what you did in YOUR life and what YOU did. Wrestlers are the biggest addicts in the world, and it's out of neccessity to feed and sustain their families on a large-scale basis. Benoit made the choice to take them to sustain that welfare, even if it has now obviously backfired thanks to their influencing his stress and troubled mind. Noone thinks clearly when there in that condition, you did'nt because obviously your so-called "experiance" was'nt as bad as this, and therefore you have nothing to say about this discussion

Point blank though bro, is now adays everyones blaming anything they can, instead of blaming the person for acting foolish in any regard to dangerous subtance abuse or cookyness.

-X-

Point blank, Krow and I know this buisness better than you, and until you experiance what Benoit did, or people I personally know experiance, you've got nothing pal, give it up.

Noone is absolving Benoit of any crime he commited, but he was not thinking rationally, and whilst you'd love to beleive human action is all up to the individual, in the hands of disturbed, fragile, and addicted humans trying to do the right thing for their loved ones, human action is up to what is'nt helping their state of body and mind.

[KROW]

Originally Posted by X

Yea but Krow, the thing in life now is, someone can always find a way to blame anything for peoples actions.

It's like what Chris Rock says in his standup "Bigger and Blacker." "What ever happened to just being crazy?"

Back before attorneys could tell all the kids, "blame Grand Theft Auto for your actions, they'll lessen the sentence, and cry plea of insanity," there was just being loony.

Now people can always blame drugs, for the reason why someone acted, when in truth, the very first time Benoit picked up a drug, he had the options -

A. Using it.

B. Not using it.

So if drugs were involved and he became a druggy then that was his own fault for spitting in everyones face just to feel good by being drugged up.

Here let's say this. Why in the hell would you want to be a professional wrestler if somewhere in there Steroids had to be involved? Is a job or career worth all of that, and totally forgetting any potential side effects of the substance? He had a choice yet again, but cared obviously more about himself, then anyone else.

If this is related to regular drugs, then again, he is selfish for thinking about himself over family and getting involved and picking up that first drug when he could've sought help. Like I've said, I have had issues in life, some bad, some not so bad, but I have never resorted to other methods to take my mind off any stressful situation.

Point blank though bro, is now adays everyones blaming anything they can, instead of blaming the person for acting foolish in any regard to dangerous subtance abuse or cookyness.

-X-

Using a comedian's perspective in a discussion about murder? Yikes.

You need to understand one thing: Maybe he didn't have a choice. Maybe he had to take steroids. Steroids aren't just a drug people take to enhance muscle mass. They're used as a stimulant. People with COPD use them and they are just as capable of doing horrendous actions as the next person, as are we all. The thing is, the company he was buying them from was shady. This could mean that he wasn't getting the proper steroids, they were tainted in some way, they were too strong, or maybe not strong enough. See, we don't know because the toxicology reports haven't been released. Hell, we don't even know if they're done yet. You're jumping to conclusions about his drug-use when the facts are still being formulated.

Also, there are tons of wrestlers that don't use steroids at all. It's not a prerequisite for the business. It's not even a matter of possibility to have to take them. For all we know, Benoit probably didn't want to take them, maybe was horrified to learn that he had to. Remember, when he was tested in April of this year, he was clean. Maybe something happened where he needed them rather than want them. It's an unknown and it's not right to assume that he took them for personal reasons.

Furthermore, although seeking professional help about stress in his life would have been a good idea, where exactly would Benoit find the time to juggle family, work, and therapy with a work schedule like his? Wrestlers are away from home 300 days out of the year. Is 65 days, spent sporadically, enough to alleviate any burdens in your life? No, they're not.

Now let's just say he wanted to go to therapy. Commendable, yes? Well, guess what? He would have to take time off work for it. He'd HAVE to. And again, like I said before, what's the guarantee that his job would be there when he got back and what if he didn't have that luxury? Did his contract allow that? Was there a clause in there for that type of situation? Again, we don't know.

There are a lot of things to consider and my argument is that most of the people in this thread aren't considering it.

Also, I would like to say that maybe Benoit punished himself in the end. The way he died seemed far more horrible than the way his family did. Perhaps he judged himself for his actions, so maybe it'd be best if we stop judging him.

[jeff the cheff]

YOU ARE NOT A PROFESSIONAL WRESTLER

Your saying that he can't judge someone because he doesn't know what it's like to be in the "business" that you know so much about because you watch it on TV. X can call someone a sicko for killing his family regardless of what the circumstances are. I think thats his point, no matter what drugs he was on, stress he was under, or family trouble he had, you really can simplify all this and just call him an asshole pshycho murderer!

Oh I'm sorry, I have no idea what it's like to be a wrestler, so I have no place in judging him....and I can't judge scott peterson because I don't know what it's like to sell fertilizer for a living.

[Sewer Bull]

Originally Posted by KROW

Now let's just say he wanted to go to therapy. Commendable, yes? Well, guess what? He would have to take time off work for it. He'd HAVE to. And again, like I said before, what's the guarantee that his job would be there when he got back and what if he didn't have that luxury? Did his contract allow that? Was there a clause in there for that type of situation? Again, we don't know.

How about retiring from wrestling then, after the potential therapy - and giving a chance to another job that would cause less damage to his life and mind?

You're saying as if he couldn't do anything but wrestle in his life.

[Nightwatcher]

You keep assuming that Benoit wouldn't have a job when he got back if he took time off. Wasn't he one of the more popular wrestlers at the time? Even if the WWE wouldn't rehire him (unlikely) he definately could have found a job at TNA or another wrestling brand. Maybe even one that didn't travel around the U.S. every week.

[KROW]

Originally Posted by jeff the cheff

Your saying that he can't judge someone because he doesn't know what it's like to be in the "business" that you know so much about because you watch it on TV. X can call someone a sicko for killing his family regardless of what the circumstances are. I think thats his point, no matter what drugs he was on, stress he was under, or family trouble he had, you really can simplify all this and just call him an asshole pshycho murderer!

Oh I'm sorry, I have no idea what it's like to be a wrestler, so I have no place in judging him....and I can't judge scott peterson because I don't know what it's like to sell fertilizer for a living.

Stop comparing this with Scott Peterson, will you? He allegedly killed his wife over money which is way more materialistic. Benoit allegedly killed over a more mental and emotional reason. The two cases are different, regardless that they're both under the category of double-murder.

Another factor that makes them different is that Chris Benoit gave to the community. He entertained. He was a television celebrity, of sorts. The impact of these tragic events is overwhelming, just as it might be if a big Hollywood movie star would do the same. Scott Peterson was just like you or me, the Average Joe. His actions impacted the town in which he lived and then the nation when the media got wind of it. Benoit's case shocked the world.

And how do you know that Zarius (or I, for that matter) only know about the wrestling business because we watch it on TV exclusively? Maybe he goes backstage, meets them in person, does interviews, knows some of them personally. Maybe I do. You don't know. No, it's okay to jump to conclusions and assume things about people, right? Just throw caution to the wind and bark at the moon.

Originally Posted by Sewer Bull

How about retiring from wrestling then, after the potential therapy - and giving a chance to another job that would cause less damage to his life and mind?

You're saying as if he couldn't do anything but wrestle in his life.

And what job, pray tell, would be able to pay him enough to care for his son who was suffering from Fragile X? He and his wife kept arguing over how to take care of him. She wanted him home more, but he said if he did he would get paid less.

Originally Posted by Nightwatcher

You keep assuming that Benoit wouldn't have a job when he got back if he took time off. Wasn't he one of the more popular wrestlers at the time? Even if the WWE wouldn't rehire him (unlikely) he definately could have found a job at TNA or another wrestling brand. Maybe even one that didn't travel around the U.S. every week.

TNA? Yeah, right. They're just starting to get notoriety in the ratings. You think he's going to jump there with less pay and more hard work? And going to any other wrestling promotion would be frivolous. Also, I wasn't assuming a damn thing. I said MAYBE he didn't have that guarantee, MAYBE his contract wouldn't allow it.

[Nightwatcher]

Did he actually "give to the community" or are you considering the fact that he wrestled on TV a community service?

[KROW]

Originally Posted by Nightwatcher

Did he actually "give to the community" or are you considering the fact that he wrestled on TV a community service?

Oh my God... He performed in front of a paying audience while getting his body battered and broken up for the sake of their amusement and entertainment. He did that around the world. I'd say that's giving to the community.

[Mr. Snackpants]

Originally Posted by KROW

His actions were deplorable, but I think some of us are trying to uphold a sense of decency by looking at and analyzing the facts while others are spouting things like, "He's a sick nut-job," "I hope he burns in Hell," "He could've done this or that instead," and so on. Just disregarding the details and seeing it as, "He killed his family, so he ain't worth a damn in any respect" and in the same vein judging him is one-sided when there are still many facets to consider in this tragedy -- facets that might never be known.

We know what happened and we stated flat-out that this is a horrible thing. Now we're discussing the possible reasons why while there are still people who refuse to see the other side of the story. It's not defending his actions nor down-playing the incident nor is it trying to find an excuse, it's looking for a measure of understanding that the ignorant here just won't even try to comprehend.

So you seriously think he shouldn't be called sick? Or that he wasn't a nut-job?

What facts aren't we taking into consideration? He killed his family. Nothing justifies that, ever. Unless he wasn't in control of himself due to drugs or whatever, you can't defend him or tell people to look at it objectively. Even if it was due to drugs, it's his fault for taking them. If his job was causing him so much problems he should've took time off. Im sure he would be welcomed back and even if he for some reason he wasn't, I'm sure he's financially set. There are no facts that could come out to justify what Benoit did. Unless they discover he didn't do it...he was one sick individual.

[Nightwatcher]

Assuming he went to wrestle for the troops, I would consider that giving to the community. I don't know what other charities the WWE does but if he did stuff for that it could be considered community service as well.

I would not consider wrestling itself a community service.

[KROW]

Originally Posted by Mr. Snackpants

So you seriously think he shouldn't be called sick? Or that he wasn't a nut-job?

What facts aren't we taking into consideration? He killed his family. Nothing justifies that, ever. Unless he wasn't in control of himself due to drugs or whatever, you can't defend him or tell people to look at it objectively. Even if it was due to drugs, it's his fault for taking them. If his job was causing him so much problems he should've took time off. Im sure he would be welcomed back and even if he for some reason he wasn't, I'm sure he's financially set. There are no facts that could come out to justify what Benoit did. Unless they discover he didn't do it...he was one sick individual.

I would deem him sick as in unwell, but not a nut-job.

And again, you're talking in unknowns. Maybe he wasn't financially well-off. His house was valued at $900,000, he made about $500,000 a year (much less than your average baseball, football, or basketball player), and the treatments needed to take care of his son cost who knows how much. Also, I'm not justifying nor defending him. I'm trying to garner an understanding here.

Originally Posted by Nightwatcher

Assuming he went to wrestle for the troops, I would consider that giving to the community. I don't know what other charities the WWE does but if he did stuff for that it could be considered community service as well.

I would not consider wrestling itself a community service.

The WWE gives to thousands of charities and visits several benefits around the world. Benoit attended many of them, especially when he was the World Champion, which is like acting as the figurehead of the company.

[Sewer Bull]

Originally Posted by KROW

And what job, pray tell, would be able to pay him enough to care for his son who was suffering from Fragile X? He and his wife kept arguing over how to take care of him. She wanted him home more, but he said if he did he would get paid less.

I don't know what else he could have done in life - it could have always been something related to wrestling maybe. But I really know nothing about him and his talents, so don't require any enlightened answer from me.

Yet I know there are families with Fragile X kids, possibly way poorer than the Benoits (with jobs less paid than a WWE entertainer), who still manage to live on somehow, without slaughtering each other in the powerless rage.

[Anarky]

Originally Posted by KROW

And again, you're talking in unknowns.

Everyone in here is talking in unknowns, including the people using yellow font. Just count the Couldas, Wouldas and Shouldas in your posts.

The reason why I'm interjecting here is that I don't want to see this thread locked because some hacks decide to slit each others virtual throats in a thread about something that has enough death in it already. If you really want to have a go at it, please use The Official Technodrome Fighting League! - Where you can smite your Enemies with all your might!

[X]

That's why I don't use personal attacks, outside of telling Zarius what is like having kids, Anarky. Internet fighting isn't my cup of tea, and everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Krow you stated -

"Furthermore, although seeking professional help about stress in his life would have been a good idea, where exactly would Benoit find the time to juggle family, work, and therapy with a work schedule like his? Wrestlers are away from home 300 days out of the year. Is 65 days, spent sporadically, enough to alleviate any burdens in your life? No, they're not."

- Where would Benoit find the time to juggle family = Retire on the money you've made for over a decade.

- Work = Find a new career if things are getting too heated. It's not like he's abnormal and cannot get any regular job like you and I.

- Therapy = eliminate both of the above, and make time. Family and health comes first, or it's common sense your body is going to take an emotional pounding, and the human heart can only take so much before it gives up. Be it in psycho fashion, or dying from stress overload. Can you believe I actually knew someone who died from the latter? Stress?

Sure I may not be a professional wrestler, but I was born with common sense, as was everyone else here, and everyone in the world. My common sense tells me, that if he were made to take Steroids, why would he use that extra muscle to find a career in wrestling? Oh maybe he just got into wrestling first, then found his supplier. If he had any condition before he started wrestling where a doctor prescribed Steroids to him, I doubt the WWE would just welcome him with open arms, and a ailment that needs medicine, that can alter a persons perception.

A good example if I may. I went to the doctor because to this day I have nose obstruction, which over the years it's getting harder and harder to breathe out of my nose, and I'm losing my sense of smell and taste, even as we speak. I've been to the doctor twice now (ENT or Ear, Nose, and Throat specialist.) He said the only way to get rid of the obstruction is to kill the Temperal Arteritis which requires a Steroid. However, twice now I was denied a Steroid to kill it. Why? Because I had high blood pressure going in there both times, and he said giving me it, will give me a stroke asap. He says I should lose a lot of the STRESS in my life.

So let's say Benoit was stressed out, which we all know he was, what with all the balancing. Him taking a Steroid would only give him a stroke, as stress will raise anyones blood pressure, which a steroid does as well, and is far more potent, then high blood pressure from stress, as a doctor stated to me.

So with that I assume he wasn't on roids when this happened, because he would've had to have been very mellowed out, to stay on it and keep from having a stroke. Someone who is in the middle of killing people are hardly calm I'd think. It's like any time I've been in fights, my heart races 100 MPH, and my adreniline is pumping, imagine what happens when you're going the next mile.

-X-

[KROW]

Originally Posted by Anarky

Everyone in here is talking in unknowns, including the people using yellow font. Just count the Couldas, Wouldas and Shouldas in your posts.

No sh*t. I'm not the one assuming things. Maybe you should read my posts instead of count the words.


Here are Rob Van Dam's comments from his MySpace page. Keep in mind that he's into all that yoga and meditation stuff:

Well, there's no need to wait until we have our heads wrapped around this, because I doubt that'll happen, so here it is. I know that a monster committed those terrible, unforgivable acts of horror. Just like everyone who knew Chris Benoit, I can't think of him as a monster. Not Chris.
Chris was truly a role model's role model. You simply had to respect him and admire his focus and unmatched discipline. If I ever got asked a question about who I looked up to the most in the business, you guessed it. That's me sharing a real feeling with you. Not talking about bull **** that I have little interest in, like who would I like most to wrestle with, or what's my favorite color, but who I actually looked up to in the dressing room. It's Chris Benoit- in the ring and in the dressing room and with his family.
The last time I talked to Chris, a few weeks ago, he told me how much he respected me for stepping away from the business. His message now comes to me from beyond. He said "Some of us don't know when to get out." I told him that I always held a little contempt for him telling me back in 1992 that I was a dumb-ass for wanting to quit WCW, and mentioned the irony.
Over the last several years, on overseas tours I'd always see Chris in the gym when the other guys were recovering from the night before. He'd train hard and sometimes I'd see him allowing young wrestlers to follow his lead and get a guaranteed killer workout. He took pride in what he did and set a great example for others, myself included, to follow.
How many murderers…baby murderers at that… are praised so highly by EVERYONE who knew them? This is all so bizarre and new information seems to come out every few hours but I can't imagine we'll ever understand what happened here. It appears that Chris took the answers with him. To tell you the honest truth, the easiest thing for me to believe at this moment is that if no frame work was involved, he was taken over by demonic energies with no compassion. I have to believe this is often the case with such inhumane acts.
Nancy, Daniel and Chris's tragic deaths obviously have affected a lot of people. Just remember, there's enough hate in this world. Hateful thoughts do not move us in the right direction, so make a conscious effort to remember that. It's important now and always.

[Mr. Snackpants]

Originally Posted by KROW

I would deem him sick as in unwell, but not a nut-job.

And again, you're talking in unknowns. Maybe he wasn't financially well-off. His house was valued at $900,000, he made about $500,000 a year (much less than your average baseball, football, or basketball player), and the treatments needed to take care of his son cost who knows how much. Also, I'm not justifying nor defending him. I'm trying to garner an understanding here.

That's a good point. I forgot his kid was ill and I assumed they made more than 5 million a year.

I know there may be things we never know...about why Benoit did this. But I don't think there are any unknown facts that would make Benoit a "lesser evil"(?)...unless RVD is right.

But that's it for me...it's getting a little too testy in here for me.

[X]

"demonic energies with no compassion."

Sounds a lot like RVD believes in stuff we cannot or should not talk about here.

You know Krow, I can tell you now that talking with a producer named Don Murphy (producer of Transformers,) I asked him this question, "Is everyone fake in hollywood or are they really friends. Do they pose, only to talk smack behind each others backs." His reply was a simple, "yes." What I'm saying is that with celebrities, you never know what's real and what's not.

However lets say he means what he says, in which he probably could be coming from the heart, which is a good thing. He states that Benoit told him "some of us don't know when to get out." That's exatly what I've been trying to say. Was it love for the sport that he didn't know when things were going sour, or even cared enough to? No one knows, however that phrase says something. He obviously cared more for the sport, or money, then his family and his health. In essence, it makes me think more that he just lost his rocker, and it wasn't drugs.

Again, "what ever happened to just being crazy?" Even RVD said, "demonic energies with no compassion." Hence being crazy... Who would know him best then a fellow co-worker. Funny thing is, I'm sure he would've mentioned drugs and not demons, should he have felt the need to...

-X-