Leonardo? - Page 4

*heretic888* · 10-25-2002, 11:57 AM

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As i said many times before, all of them got injured sometimes.

As I recall, you said that Michelangelo gets hurt the most, not that 'it depends on the situation'.

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No matter what I or someone else tells you, you dont seem to give up.

funny, i could say the same thing about you. you havent changed your mind even though i have given a LOT more 'evidence' supporting my postion than you have yours. why would i change my mind for your postion, when you have only one battle in one issue of the story backing it up (and i cited MANY other battles that would support my position).

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None of the stories clearly state that one turtle is any better than another.

Actually, only Mike and Leo were the only ones able to injure Shredder in the first issue on one-on-one. Mike beat Raph fairly easily, which angered Raphael a great deal ("You cant beat me, Mike. Not now, not ever!" "Oh, really? You're too cocky, Raph. Pride goeth before a fall, buddy" Good advice). And if i recall correctly in the Juliet's Revenge (which wasnt really written by Eastman or Laird, but still) that Mike "knows he's the best there is". In the River storyarch, Splinter also references Raph as the "weakest" of his students (although i think he is talking about 'spiritual' strength). In the River, Mike is also cited as having the quickest reflexes and movements of them all. Need I also remind you that Mike was the only one in the Image series that didnt end up getting mangled??

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And unless you can prove that Laird or Eastman were the ones who did the profiles in the rpg book, it doesnt count. They have only said that they did the artwork, if you can prove that they affected the content il accept your theory, but before that it's just your opinnion. PERIOID.

I'll get back to you on that one.

besides, eastman and laird never 'said' they did the artwork for the rpgs. The only proof we have that they did is the art style and their signatures by the drawings. Trust me, if you read the rpg profiles you probably wouldnt be questioning all this: they have a VERY accurate portrayal of the characters' personalities.

*terran631* · 10-25-2002, 12:05 PM

Just a quick little interjection..I am like GW..I like Leo doesn't really matter why. But that was the orignal topic of the thread...of course..who am I to say anything about going off topic...

However...just remember this phrase and it will help quite a bit before this "debate" gets outta hand

"Agree to disagree"

Bye now

*heretic888* · 10-25-2002, 12:10 PM

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Yeah i can believe mike is the most agile. Still earlier you spoke like Mike was somehow far superior to the others.

Umm.... i hate to break this to you, but in ninjutsu (what the turtles train in), superior agility and dexterity coupled with superior creativity DOES MEAN that you will be a better fighter. THAT IS WHY i said he is the best fighter, because he is the most creative and the most dexterous.

Ninpo taijutsu (the ninja's empty-handed fighting art) is based on utilizing relaxed, natural, flowing coordination of the entire body in motion as a single unit. In other words, agility. Mike's personality and attitude to life also make him more likely to progress in ninjutsu than the others. This may surpise you, but 'dedication' and 'devotion' are not as important in ninpo as actually loving and enjoying the art.

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Still the one who trains the most is Leonardo. That is clear. Michelangelo also trains but has hobboes like writing.

I dunno, Mike seemed awfully into the training when they were in the farmhouse and in issue 19 (Raph skulks, don tinkers and mike trains).

Yes, Mike is into creative writing (a fact that is COINCIDENTALLY ONLY revealed in the rpg. hmmmm...

), but in ninpo you are expected to develop bunbu, a knowledge of ALL the arts, martial or otherwise. If Mike was not into other arts besides ninpo, he would in fact be being very un-ninja like. Single-minded obsession with the martial arts only would lead to limited growth (that explains raph quite a bit).

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Raphael is the most motivated to hurt their enemies

A weakness that can be exploited by an intelligent opponent.

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Donatello the natrual smart guy.

Intelligence often has little to do with fighting and self-defense.

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They have trained to be a team, and that is when they work best, not alone. Good example is issue 1.

damn skippy

*heretic888* · 10-25-2002, 12:15 PM

i actually like all the turtles, though.

Mike is my favorite more for his personality and character symbolism than anything else. He also has the most 'ninja' approach to life.

Fighting isnt everything, of course. I am just trying to stop the perpetuation of lies that Mike is a 'worthless' fighter or that he 'always get hurts'. IF any of the turtles is a 'best fighter', it would be Mike due to his physical abilities, attitude, and creativity and intuition. But, if there is not a 'best fighter' then he still has the best attitude and approach to follow.

To each his (or her) own, i suppose.

*heretic888* · 10-25-2002, 12:16 PM

in case you guys hadnt noticed, i really enjoy this sort of thing. it keeps the board interesting, i think!

*terran631* · 10-25-2002, 12:18 PM

<Yes, Mike is into creative writing (a fact that is COINCIDENTALLY ONLY revealed in the rpg. hmmmm...

)>

Okay at the risk of just killing my own advice and Heretic I ask that you not shove a whole bunch of stuff down my throat because this is a simple question/ rebuttal but wasn't there a comic by Mirage that had Mike writing out a whole story and then at the end asks Klunk what he thinks of it so far?? If I'm wrong..sorry. If I'm not..well..that's an example of Mike's writing not found in the RPG

**Karpo_007** · 10-25-2002, 12:26 PM

Nice to argue with you. But as i said earlier I have allolume 1 one +speacials and suchs but havent got time to read them much yet. If i had i could proably give you more examples.

Im pretty sure that they all get beaten up equally, In the first issues mike more than others, still i think that it is pointless to try to say who's the best in training matches, fighting real opponents etc. It all depends on stories and writers.

*heretic888* · 10-25-2002, 12:28 PM

yes, that is the "Mike is a wandering ninja in ancient japan" story (i forget which issue). one of my favorties, actually....

but that was written mostly by Eric Talbot (Kevin Eastman helped out a little, i think) not the creators.

and besides, it was FINALLY revealed in the comics that Mike was into creative writing after it had been listed as one of his Secondary Skills in his rpg profile... for... oh.... FIVE YEARS!

As I said before, get into the rpg. It really reveals certain 'special skills' that each tmnt is good at that you probably dont know (Raph for example is the most skilled at demolitions/explosives, as well as tracking and wilderness survival).

*heretic888* · 10-25-2002, 12:30 PM

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Nice to argue with you. But as i said earlier I have allolume 1 one +speacials and suchs but havent got time to read them much yet. If i had i could proably give you more examples.

Well, I HAVE read them all... and i can assure you that Raph tends to get whupped up the most due to his impulsiveness. Mike got 'beat up more' in ONE issue of the earlier comics.. not most of them by far.

But I agree it mostly depends on the situation. Regardless, Mike still has the greatest 'physical prowess' of the four of them.

**Karpo_007** · 10-25-2002, 12:31 PM

It was issue 17. Nice issue by the way.

*heretic888* · 10-25-2002, 12:33 PM

yup, one of my personal faves. i liked the 'hall of lost legends' story too.

**Karpo_007** · 10-25-2002, 12:38 PM

Might be true, But when they're fighting real opponents they all perform equally good, and that what's counts.

Spike The Xenomorph · 10-25-2002, 12:42 PM

R U Kiddin! Whenever I played a turtle game it HAD to Be Leo!

He's da coolest! Then Donnie, then Mike, then Raph(Sorry Raph. but your weapons need RANGE!)

*heretic888* · 10-25-2002, 12:45 PM

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Might be true, But when they're fighting real opponents they all perform equally good, and that what's counts.

Hmm.... actually, Mike and Leo's movements tend to be the most graceful, the least energy-expending, and the most practical. Raph sure takes up a lot of energy with some of his moves. I'm suprised he doesnt tire himself out. Then again, he does like showing off........

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R U Kiddin! Whenever I played a turtle game it HAD to Be Leo!

He's da coolest! Then Donnie, then Mike, then Raph(Sorry Raph. but your weapons need RANGE!)

Hey, we're not talkin about video games... we're talkin about real life... or comics, anyway.

Spike The Xenomorph · 10-25-2002, 12:48 PM

Oh. Sorry. lol

Uhhhhhhhhhh..... but Leo is still my fav & Raph, well, he is funny sometimes but usually he's nothing but a rude kid who is just TOO serious!

**Karpo_007** · 10-25-2002, 01:09 PM

Raph isn't really that fun... or did you mean the cartoon one?

Spike The Xenomorph · 10-25-2002, 01:10 PM

Cartoonie one.

*heretic888* · 10-25-2002, 01:13 PM

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Raph isn't really that fun...

i dunno... Mike and Raph seemed to be having fun when they were kicking the s**t outta each other

[Watch the language, please. -- Azure]

**Karpo_007** · 10-25-2002, 01:15 PM

Hmmm, not exactly what i meant. His not a comedian like the cartoon one. he's more of a Hot headed loner...

Spike The Xenomorph · 10-25-2002, 01:18 PM

Some1 should slap him & let him no to quit being such a tightie!

Why does he always have to take his aggression out on Mikey?

+ Have any of you'ze ever played that 2-player streetfighter-like turtles game?

10-25-2002, 12:15 PM	#64
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	hmmm i actually like all the turtles, though. Mike is my favorite more for his personality and character symbolism than anything else. He also has the most 'ninja' approach to life. Fighting isnt everything, of course. I am just trying to stop the perpetuation of lies that Mike is a 'worthless' fighter or that he 'always get hurts'. IF any of the turtles is a 'best fighter', it would be Mike due to his physical abilities, attitude, and creativity and intuition. But, if there is not a 'best fighter' then he still has the best attitude and approach to follow. To each his (or her) own, i suppose. __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

10-25-2002, 12:16 PM	#65
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	hee in case you guys hadnt noticed, i really enjoy this sort of thing. it keeps the board interesting, i think! __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

10-25-2002, 12:18 PM	#66
terran631 The Defender of Splinter Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Third Rock from the Sun Posts: 3,948	Re: ahem <Yes, Mike is into creative writing (a fact that is COINCIDENTALLY ONLY revealed in the rpg. hmmmm... )> Okay at the risk of just killing my own advice and Heretic I ask that you not shove a whole bunch of stuff down my throat because this is a simple question/ rebuttal but wasn't there a comic by Mirage that had Mike writing out a whole story and then at the end asks Klunk what he thinks of it so far?? If I'm wrong..sorry. If I'm not..well..that's an example of Mike's writing not found in the RPG

10-25-2002, 12:28 PM	#68
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	ahem yes, that is the "Mike is a wandering ninja in ancient japan" story (i forget which issue). one of my favorties, actually.... but that was written mostly by Eric Talbot (Kevin Eastman helped out a little, i think) not the creators. and besides, it was FINALLY revealed in the comics that Mike was into creative writing after it had been listed as one of his Secondary Skills in his rpg profile... for... oh.... FIVE YEARS! As I said before, get into the rpg. It really reveals certain 'special skills' that each tmnt is good at that you probably dont know (Raph for example is the most skilled at demolitions/explosives, as well as tracking and wilderness survival). __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

10-25-2002, 12:33 PM	#71
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	hee yup, one of my personal faves. i liked the 'hall of lost legends' story too. __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

10-25-2002, 12:05 PM	#62
terran631 The Defender of Splinter Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Third Rock from the Sun Posts: 3,948	Just a quick little interjection..I am like GW..I like Leo doesn't really matter why. But that was the orignal topic of the thread...of course..who am I to say anything about going off topic... However...just remember this phrase and it will help quite a bit before this "debate" gets outta hand "Agree to disagree" Bye now

10-25-2002, 12:26 PM	#67
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Nice to argue with you. But as i said earlier I have allolume 1 one +speacials and suchs but havent got time to read them much yet. If i had i could proably give you more examples. Im pretty sure that they all get beaten up equally, In the first issues mike more than others, still i think that it is pointless to try to say who's the best in training matches, fighting real opponents etc. It all depends on stories and writers.

10-25-2002, 12:31 PM	#70
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	It was issue 17. Nice issue by the way.

10-25-2002, 12:38 PM	#72
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Might be true, But when they're fighting real opponents they all perform equally good, and that what's counts.

10-25-2002, 12:42 PM	#73
Spike The Xenomorph Stone Warrior Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Hive Posts: 517	I now this is late in the conversation but..... R U Kiddin! Whenever I played a turtle game it HAD to Be Leo! He's da coolest! Then Donnie, then Mike, then Raph(Sorry Raph. but your weapons need RANGE!) __________________ Pointless sayings: "If at first you don't succeed, hack and hack again!" - Cream The Rabbit

10-25-2002, 12:48 PM	#75
Spike The Xenomorph Stone Warrior Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Hive Posts: 517	Oh. Sorry. lol Uhhhhhhhhhh..... but Leo is still my fav & Raph, well, he is funny sometimes but usually he's nothing but a rude kid who is just TOO serious! __________________ Pointless sayings: "If at first you don't succeed, hack and hack again!" - Cream The Rabbit

10-25-2002, 01:09 PM	#76
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Raph isn't really that fun... or did you mean the cartoon one?

10-25-2002, 01:10 PM	#77
Spike The Xenomorph Stone Warrior Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Hive Posts: 517	Do you want fries with that? Cartoonie one. __________________ Pointless sayings: "If at first you don't succeed, hack and hack again!" - Cream The Rabbit

10-25-2002, 01:15 PM	#79
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Hmmm, not exactly what i meant. His not a comedian like the cartoon one. he's more of a Hot headed loner...

10-25-2002, 01:18 PM	#80
Spike The Xenomorph Stone Warrior Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Hive Posts: 517	hmph! Some1 should slap him & let him no to quit being such a tightie! Why does he always have to take his aggression out on Mikey? + Have any of you'ze ever played that 2-player streetfighter-like turtles game? __________________ Pointless sayings: "If at first you don't succeed, hack and hack again!" - Cream The Rabbit

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