Melissa Etheridge to Stop Paying Taxes Due to Prop 8

[Sewer Bull]

Prop 8 movement made me think whether we could expect the same types of wackos trying to adjust national constitutions here, in Europe.

Something tells me they might be successful in at least few countries, despite their governments' proclaimed openness.

[Anarky]

They probably would, however, it would be for different reasons here than in the USA. You see, the USA are the only rich country on the planet who doesn't think its too rich for God, so the question here would be: Are gays disgusting enough to make them second class citizens?

... yeah, that's how Europe rolls.

[PAAATE]

Originally Posted by Mino

Prop 8 movement made me think whether we could expect the same types of wackos trying to adjust national constitutions here, in Europe.

Something tells me they might be successful in at least few countries, despite their governments' proclaimed openness.

I can imagine a few countries that would... But it's not like gay marriage is legal everywhere in Europe to begin with...

Now that I think about it I'm not sure if it's legal or not in Sweden... But on the other hand, we're the only country (or so I've heard) in the world that has a law against saying bad stuff about homosexuals...

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

Originally Posted by Mecha Cow

Homosexuality is not the same thing as or comparable to incest, or polygamy, or bestiality, or whatever the f*ck else you want to throw around. This is not a matter of opinion, and anyone who tries to argue otherwise is wrong. These are just more excuses to try and justify a bigoted, antiquated train of thought. Enough.

And just because the government says something does not make it right, or true. For the longest time the government said black people couldn't vote either. This isn't even an argument; we know it's not legal, that's the whole point of the issue. And no, civil unions are not the same thing, and homosexuals should not have to 'settle' for them. 'Seperate but equal' is not equal.


In California it was, before they had themselves a little do-over and had Prop. 8 'eliminate' that right.

Maybe, but homosexuality and heterosexuality are not the same, either. And before you talk about 'rights', know that in medieval times, local lords in Britain (and probably everywhere else) had the right to blind and/or castrate anyone they caught poaching on their estates, no legal process required except the lord's command. Also, in Italy until 1981, it was legal for a husband to kill anyone he caught in bed with his spouse. I'm sure some people were upset when those rights were taken away too.

And I find the idea of homosexual being "second class citizens" laughable. They have the exact same rights everyone else does. They were never enslaved, were never denied the right to vote, were never forced to live in poverty, etc. There is no inherent right to marry anyone you want. Get over it.

[Hannah]

You are a disgusting person. You're comparing the right to marry who you love to castration and murder?

[Mecha Cow]

Maybe, but homosexuality and heterosexuality are not the same, either. And before you talk about 'rights', know that in medieval times, local lords in Britain (and probably everywhere else) had the right to blind and/or castrate anyone they caught poaching on their estates, no legal process required except the lord's command. Also, in Italy until 1981, it was legal for a husband to kill anyone he caught in bed with his spouse. I'm sure some people were upset when those rights were taken away too.

And I find the idea of homosexual being "second class citizens" laughable. They have the exact same rights everyone else does. They were never enslaved, were never denied the right to vote, were never forced to live in poverty, etc. There is no inherent right to marry anyone you want. Get over it.

I am not going to dignify this by arguing it. You are a piece of sh*t, you are wrong now and forever, and you will lose this battle. Go away and never post again.

[Jo Dawn]

This thread is going to get locked. Start respecting other people's opinions even if you don't like them.

Any bad things to say, take it to PM and be adults for goodness sake.

[Mecha Cow]

I hope you're not honestly expecting people to 'respect' filth like that. We all knew there was no way to have this debate without toes being stepped on, let's not back out now that the first stone's been cast.

[Anarky]

Of course there's a way to have this thread without insults. Just... you know, don't use insults. Disagreeing and arguing, sure things, but insults... really?

If you ask me, Chi Ha does have his standards a bit oddly set, which would need a bit of explanation for me to understand. But once we understand, we can debate it.

[Jo Dawn]

From what I see, he gave a slight history lesson and then stated his opinion. I didnt say to agree with him, but to respect that he has a different opinion than you, and debate like adults. Don't question me.

EDIT - Taking into consideration the Forum Rules...

Please respect other members. Attacking or harassing other members on the forums is not allowed. This includes trolling (posting with the intention of upsetting people and/or starting arguments). If you get into an argument with another member, please take it to email/PM/IM and keep it off the forums.

Consider this a verbal warning for Hannah and Mecha Cow. Sorry. Rules gotta be enforced somewhere. Also, as per the RULES, any questions can be submitted via PM, but I know we're all smart enough here to know what's right and what's wrong here. Let's just take this as a lesson.

[poiuytre]

Originally Posted by Type 97 Chi-ha

Maybe, but homosexuality and heterosexuality are not the same, either. And before you talk about 'rights', know that in medieval times, local lords in Britain (and probably everywhere else) had the right to blind and/or castrate anyone they caught poaching on their estates, no legal process required except the lord's command. Also, in Italy until 1981, it was legal for a husband to kill anyone he caught in bed with his spouse. I'm sure some people were upset when those rights were taken away too.

I'll be honest that I would have used your exact same example as an argument against your position. To paraphrase Cow, just because the law says something doesn't make it right.

Originally Posted by Type 97 Chi-ha

And I find the idea of homosexual being "second class citizens" laughable. They have the exact same rights everyone else does. They were never enslaved, were never denied the right to vote, were never forced to live in poverty, etc. There is no inherent right to marry anyone you want. Get over it.

This is what I meant earlier. I disagree with the line of thinking, but I understand it. It's why it isn't an issue of just "rights".

[Sewer Bull]

Originally Posted by Type 97 Chi-ha

Maybe, but homosexuality and heterosexuality are not the same, either.

Yes, they are not the same.

... they are two sides of the same coin

Deal with it.

Originally Posted by Type 97 Chi-ha

And before you talk about 'rights', know that in medieval times, local lords in Britain (and probably everywhere else) had the right to blind and/or castrate anyone they caught poaching on their estates, no legal process required except the lord's command. Also, in Italy until 1981, it was legal for a husband to kill anyone he caught in bed with his spouse. I'm sure some people were upset when those rights were taken away too.

... I think my head has just exploded.

Originally Posted by Type 97 Chi-ha

And I find the idea of homosexual being "second class citizens" laughable. They have the exact same rights everyone else does. They were never enslaved, were never denied the right to vote, were never forced to live in poverty, etc.

... hello, there were times when homosexuality was punished with death, like, everywhere in the Western world - and even in the XXth century, it was illegal and punished *just* with imprisonment. Ever heard of KL Auschwitz and other Nazi concentration camps? Homosexual people were there as well.

[Sewer Bull]

Originally Posted by Jo Dawn

From what I see, he gave a slight history lesson and then stated his opinion.

You must be ****ing kidding about the "slight history lesson" part.

[KROW]

I pretty much agree with Anarky and Mecha on this one. It doesn't, and shouldn't, make a difference if someone loves someone else of the same gender. In this day and age, that kind of discrimination should just not be ingrained into people's heads. Seriously, we need aliens to come down here and muck with our sexual preferences. That way, homosexuality will seem downright Utopian to those... well... more stubborn among us.

That said...

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

Originally Posted by Mecha Cow

I am not going to dignify this by arguing it. You are a piece of sh*t, you are wrong now and forever, and you will lose this battle. Go away and never post again.

Knowing you, I hope nobody would be too close to you if you were to stub your toe. Your screaming would be deafening.

[愛]

Okay, let's stop the e-peen showoff contest and get back on topic, shall we?

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

Originally Posted by Mino

Yes, they are not the same.

... they are two sides of the same coin

Deal with it.



... I think my head has just exploded.



... hello, there were times when homosexuality was punished with death, like, everywhere in the Western world - and even in the XXth century, it was illegal and punished *just* with imprisonment. Ever heard of KL Auschwitz and other Nazi concentration camps? Homosexual people were there as well.

So were Jews, Gypsies, Poles, Communists, anyone who didn't bow down to Hitler, etc.

As far as punishment for homosexuality is concerned, I suspect the cases resulting in execution and other punishment were not those between consenting adults. King Richard the Lion-Hearted was supposed to have been homosexual. If homosexuality was so repressed, would he have been able to keep his throne for long? (A rival could easily have used that as a pretext to destroy him.) And I have heard of no instances where homosexuals were persecuted or otherwise penalized in the US, certainly not on any significant scale.

No, they are not two sides of the same coin. They are two sides of a many-sided die. Other types of sexuality (multiple spouses, etc.) certainly do compare to the others. There are lots of examples of people with multiple wives in Asian and African cultures, even today.

[Jo Dawn]

Originally Posted by Mino

You must be ****ing kidding about the "slight history lesson" part.

I'm not sure I understand your problem. He spoke about things that happened in history, did he not?

[Sewer Bull]

Originally Posted by Jo Dawn

I'm not sure I understand your problem. He spoke about things that happened in history, did he not?

I can't believe that.

He's directly comparing right to gay marriages to some barbaric obsolete legal nuisances that happened in Europe eons ago, just to ridicule the concept of same-sex marriages - and you're calling it "a slight history lesson" and "things that happened in history" and ask us to respect his opinion?

What the hell?

[Ninjinister]

Cheese and freaking crackers, can't we all just hold hands and sing around the campfire? Or does everyone have to act like such a genital to one another?