1989: The Great TMNT Year(and will 2003 be the next 1989?)

[Tokka-B]

I agree 100% with NTCF.......if I don't see Michelangelo talk about pizza, or Raph make a funny comment, or Leo bugging them to train, or Don making another cool invention, or Shredder having another argument with Bebop and Rocksteady, or Bebop and Rocksteady act like stupid clowns, or Krang get pissed off at Shredder, or Casey with his hockey gear, or Vernon getting yelled at by his boss or making a fool of himself, or Splinter with his wisdom and wise-cracks, or April with the intercom and turtle van, or the cool bad guys in every episode I would cry...cause that was what the TMNT meant for me...

Oh well, lets see how this new show turns out, unfortunately I don't have much high hopes for it so far...

[Karpo_007]

Well personally I can't understand why you just want goofy turtles and Won't give a dark, better written series a chance...

[Mondo_Gecko]

Oh man Tokka you read my mind exactly. God i'm gunna miss that stuff.

[Karpo_007]

I missed the first season while I was watching the 4th...

[themaxonline]

I always miss the third season while watching the 5th, 6th, etc. And by the 8th season, I miss the fourth and fifth seasons! heh heh heh!

[Reznorite420]

The original TMNT cartoon will always be one of my fondest childhood memories. I'll never forget the feel of getting a toy every now and then, watching an episode on TV that missed one year or another, playing the video games either at a friend's house or having my friends play them with me, going to Chuck E. Cheese's for the sole purpose of playing the arcade game, renting a TMNT video every Friday night, playing the Pizza Power game with my sister and friends, using my action figures for acting out the arcade game (even the motorcycle Foots ), and just getting the overall feel of the TMNT as a kid.

At the same time, however, I enthusiastically await the arrival of the second cartoon series. Now that I am at a good age to do so, I can get hooked from the beginning! Those days in the past will come in a new form! I'll once again be going to the store to buy TMNT action figures (assuming I'll have a job soon ), DVDs (if there ever are any), or any kind of merchandise, but it'll be even better for me because now I won't have to rely on my parents!

All I'm trying to say is that I love the original cartoon universe, but I know for a fact that this new wave of "Turtlemania" will bring back that spirit for me once again, only in a different light. Who knows? Maybe I'll be browsing around pretty soon for the original Mirage issues of the comic!

[Karpo_007]

Well I loved the cartoon as a kid, I still Love the first season, but seasons 3-6 are just plain boring... Well there are few exceptions, like the Big trilogy.

[Tokka-B]

I wouldn't like a darker cartoon that much anyway...that is what video games are for... plus with the new voice cast, that I personally hate, I can't imagine any of them "dark" or whatever, they sound too young, I don't know...

[Karpo_007]

They are teenager... They are supposed to sound young.

[Wingnut]

Yes hence the name TEEENAGE Mutant Ninja Turtles

[Karpo_007]

Well in the new comic theyare 28, and still the title is TMNT...

[Wingnut]

But in the show they're 15

[Karpo_007]

Yeah...

[Shellfox]

I can't help but wonder what the new show will be like. We've all heard the comments and the hype, and the rare few that have seen a single ep have continuted to saw its great.

I don't buy it, not yet, a month after the show had been out may be, but right now, I can't saw one way or another if it will be worth it, or if it could even bring new fans in. Yes they saw its dark and mature, but it could suck. They saw it has plot, but it could just be the same thing over and over again with only minor alterations. The animation could suck, and what we've seen so far may be way above average.

I'm not trying to be a downer, I'm just saying don't get your hopes up just yet, the componets may be posible of giving us a good show, or it may suck beyond beliefe. Will new fans reacte to it, I can't saw, for all we know, despite whats been said its still may be heavaly geared towards them, and for all we know, what they promise may be a lie. A way to divert our attention, a way to bring in the older fans then pull the old bait and switch and give us some steaming pile of crap

[Karpo_007]

Read few of the synopses, the plot is not repeatitive..

[Wingnut]

Thank god

[Karpo_007]

And voices are good, and so is animation. I don't know what could go wrong anymore...

[Ninja Turtles Cartoon Fan]

I guess I'm just going to have to further illustrate my point.

Originally Posted by Karpo_007

Few things: Just explain how to cartoon was well writen? It used same plot over and over again. Either Shredder looking for a powersource, or a mad scientist taking a revenge to the world. There are few well written episodes, but they are exception. If you like it, or if it makes you laugh, doesn't make it a well written series.

Unless you are a writer, you probably won't understand this. If you are, more power to you. Because I am a writer, I have always been a writer, and I will continue to be a writer. I'll give you some examples of what constitutes something being well-written.

The cartoon was well-written. I could just leave it at that. But you want a more definitive answer? Alright then, I'll give you one.

It is a plus for any story to have continuity. I don't think anyone disagrees on this. Anyone disagree, class?

*Awkward silence*

Alright then, moving along. But you have got to give the continuity you so highly covet some life. You've got to pump some energy into it. All the logic and correct dates and exact names of characters don't mean diddly squat if no one cares.

We'll take a good look at our friend, the old Ninja Turtles cartoon show. The first five episodes had continuity. The stories made sense, you could trace them back, and everybody and their mother was happy as two peas in a pod.

But how long do you think the show could have kept up that pace? Not even the best shows in television have every single story every single week with every single character all adding up to the gigantic whole. You take diversions every once in a while to break things up. Why? Because too much continuity is boring. Yes, that's right, boring.

Can you spell that, class? Can you spell boring? It's b-o-r-i-n-g.

Anyone who's a good writer knows that you can't alienate your readers/viewers with the same old stuff all the time. You have to mix it up. You have to take detours every now and then. All the great stories and all the great TV shows and all the great theater plays take Exit 365 instead of traveling on Interstate 880 all the time.

This is what the Ninja Turtles cartoon was able to demonstrate so well. And, personal comment, am I the only one who sees this?

You've got two different kinds of stories told in the old cartoon universe:

1. Mythology episodes: episodes that make up the backbone of the story. The meat and potatoes of the story. The stuff that makes sense - and smells good - and comes with an added helping of that continuity that just tastes so good with extra ketchup.

2. Stand-alone episodes: episodes that do not relate to each other. They are exclusive entities in and of themselves. They do not relate to episodes written before them, unless by acknowledgement. For example: Donatello got his degree in "Donatello's Degree", correct? This is never mentioned again until "Too Hot to Handle." These are stand-alone episodes in that they don't deal with the mythology. They don't deal with Shredder and Krang trying to conquer the world, which was the backbone of the old cartoon. But "Donatello's Degree" and "Too Hot too Handle" relate to each other to an extent. Even though they aren't essential episodes to know for the show, they still make connections in the show.

You want another example of how the show was well-written? Because I just know you're dying for one, aren't you class?

*More awkward silence*

How many characters were introduced throughout the duration of the old cartoon? How many jokes did Raphael crack? How many words did Donatello use that none of us ever understood? How many worlds did the Ninja Turtles travel to? How many different situations - dumb or not, scary or not, intelligent or not - did they get themselves involved in?

Just sit back and take a good hard look at what we were given in the old cartoon. Did you catch all the in-jokes that were thrown at you? Did you catch all the puns, funny and unfunny? Any show that can poke fun at itself is at the top of its game, and the old cartoon never failed to give subtle winks to its audience. That's clever writing. That's sharp writing. That's giving the audience something, even if they don't get it right away.

There are so many things - so many things - that I see and catch now in the old cartoon that I didn't understand when I was younger, and they just crack me up now. I have never known a show to be as sly as the Ninja Turtles was without it becoming obvious to the viewers.

You mix this big bowl of Ninja Turtles salad together - continuity bacon bits, humor dressing, character croutons, different places sliced cheese - and what do you get? You get the Ninja Turtles cartoon, all nice and freshly sealed for your enjoyment.

Was the old cartoon a well-written series? You bet your sweet shell it was. You seem to think that the only thing that makes a story well-written is continuity, good fights and weapons.

But there's more to it than that. There's more being told than you know.

Originally Posted by Karpo_007

You hate the first season?

I never ever said that I hated the first season. What I did say, however, was that I hated the first season's animation. The stories were all fine and dandy; but it was the terrible animation that I didn't like.

Originally Posted by Karpo_007

It seems you can't be critical to the old show.

Can't be critical? What's your definition of critic? I just critiqued the shell out of the show in this post. If your meaning of critical, however, means things that are bad with the show, then by all means, let me critique away.

1. I didn't like the first season's animation. I think we all understand that.

2. I didn't like how so many things were wrong with the first season that they had to be changed during the second season. I'm talking about voice changes - Burne Thompson, Vernon, Krang, just to name a few (changes that were good, however, in the long run). I'm talking about color schemes - so what color was Krang, anyway? If he wasn't pink with white eyeballs, or pink with purple eyeballs, he was dark pink, almost red, with purple eyeballs.

3. That brings us to another thing: color. How many times did the artists who colored the show screw it up? It's well-documented. You've got Raphael talking while wearing Leonardo's bandana. You've got Donatello swinging Michaelangelo's nunchuks. And it seems that characters who weren't important in the show - characters who were just side-characters in a single episode and didn't do anything important - were so poorly colored it just looked as if the artists didn't give a darn.

4. Sometimes the artists couldn't figure out what to do with their characters. Krang is a prime example. Sometimes it appears as if he's steering his android body with little levers from where he sits. Sometimes he's just a brain inside a body cavity. What, are the artists so clever that they want us to believe that Krang has multiple android bodies to choose from? "I'm feeling lazy today. I'll think I'll select Auto-Pilot Android. My tentacles just aren't up for all the work." Hence, the times in the cartoon where he just sat in the body cavity. Krang even used the line, "It's time to put on my good suit!" Oh, those artists - and writers - are as slippery as duct tape, I tell you.

Sidenote: Yes, it's duct tape, not duck tape. If this is something you didn't know, you're welcome.

Originally Posted by Karpo_007

Yeah Kali, you are absolutely right, the comic isn't perfect either. But neither is the cartoon, thats's the whole point of this argument.

The whole point of this argument? Never in my post did I say the old cartoon was perfect. I was just giving my reasons for why I thought the cartoon was better than what people give it credit for. If I thought the cartoon was perfect, I wouldn't have just bashed the shell out of it a moment ago.

And finally, class, one last little nitpick:

Originally Posted by Karpo_007

Well personally I can't understand why you just want goofy turtles and Won't give a dark, better written series a chance...

I am speaking for myself here when I say that I am willing to give this new cartoon a chance. It's not going to replace what the old cartoon did for me, but I'm willing to make a little room for it. But it's going to have to prove itself, just like the old cartoon did.

And, Karpo, I am not dogging on you here. I'm just using you as an example to illustrate my points. I know you love the darker turtles, and I know you are a resident genius when it comes to all things dealing with the Mirage Turtles, or just the comic book in general.

But when it comes to your claim that the old cartoon was not a well-written series . . . my friend, this time you are wrong.

Okay, class here's your assignment: Go take a lunch break.

"I sure hope it's pizza!" - Michaelangelo, from "The Big Cufflink Caper!"

[Tokka-B]

They sound like childish teenagers, more fit for the disney channel than anywhere else...and you expect it to be darker? The old voices sounded so much cooler, not as young sounding, gave kids someone to look up to, not down to....

[Nturtle]

....*gives NTCF the "longest post ever" mango, then gets out a lawn chair and a mango lassie and sits down to watch the argument*