Peter Laird on IDW TMNT

[Sophie Campbell]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Then why exactly did he revive it in the 2000's? Starting Volume 4, restarting Tales, making a deal with 4kids to produce a new cartoon, a new toyline, etc.

Peter Laird clearly wanted to bring the Turtles back in 2001 after their initial "death" back in the mid-90's. And he did so because he still liked the franchise.

he revived TMNT because he wanted to, obviously, but 2001 was over a decade ago and maybe he had the re-ignited fire for it when he started but i think was pretty clear he lost it as the years went by. 10 years is a long time for feelings to change. maybe he'll be back someday, who knows, all i'm saying is that right now he's seriously burned out.

[Samhain]

Originally Posted by mooncalfe

10 years is a long time for feelings to change.

Which is why I think he just needs some time away from the franchise. He'll be back. It worked for Kevin and I'm sure it'll be the same for Peter.

[Konchadunga]

"Money can't buy happiness" is one of the single stupidest fallacies I have ever heard. It's a simple truth of market economics that if something makes people happy, a pricetag will be placed on it, and if Peter Laird didn't believe this, he wouldn't have exchanged such a potentially lovable property for money.

Still, the more I read from Laird, be it his digs at changes made to his creation, his unnecessarily rude comments exposed in the 2003 series production notes, or the reviews on his blog--not one of which, from what I've seen, is positive--the more it seems like he's just become a perpetually unhappy man. He vented about his disdain for what the OT did to his creation when he was perfectly capable of stepping in to improve it instead, and then when he did take a proactive role in steering the 4Kids series, it seems to have become an albatross for him and made him resent the franchise as a whole.

In many ways, selling the license was a smart move on his part; realizing he no longer cared to hold the torch so he passed it to someone who did. Yet it seems hypocritical to complain about an adaptation changing things for change's sake when he no longer cares enough about his original vision to work on it. Another issue is that the way he arranged the deal, he retained some rights to the turtles, but Mirage did not; so any of the staff who cared more about it can't do anything.

Furthermore, I don't think it's an unusual opinion that change for change's sake is exactly what adaptations should do. Otherwise, what would be the incentive to experience them?

[Spitfire]

He essentially feels exactly the same way I do about them. Good to know even one of the TMNT co-creators isn't saying it's awesome out of some misplaced responsibility.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by mooncalfe

he revived TMNT because he wanted to, obviously, but 2001 was over a decade ago and maybe he had the re-ignited fire for it when he started but i think was pretty clear he lost it as the years went by. 10 years is a long time for feelings to change. maybe he'll be back someday, who knows, all i'm saying is that right now he's seriously burned out.

Isn't Peter Laird 56 now? So back in 2001 he was 46...I suppose he had more energy to invest himself in the franchise back then.

I mean the guy is nearly 60 years old now for goodness sakes.

[FearlessLeader]

I like how a majority of this thread has degraded down to people judging Peter for his personal life and choices. People seem to be forgetting he didn't decide to tell us his opinions on these things as a lark. He was kind enough to honestly and frankly answer people's questions when they were posed to him.

I don't agree with everything that he's said, but I certainly recognize that he doesn't have to take the time out of his life in order to share these things with us. Peter doesn't have a say almost at all in the franchise anymore, if you don't like his opinion just move on.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by FearlessLeader

I like how a majority of this thread has degraded down to people judging Peter for his personal life and choices. People seem to be forgetting he didn't decide to tell us his opinions on these things as a lark. He was kind enough to honestly and frankly answer people's questions when they were posed to him.

I think people are fine with him not wanting anything to do with the franchise anymore. I think what people found a bit unnerving is he said if he could go back in time, he would "almost certainly" stop it all from happening.

Its one thing to want to distance yourself from your own creation, but if given the possibility to go back in time and erase it all from existence? Really strange.

[FearlessLeader]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I think people are fine with him not wanting anything to do with the franchise anymore. I think what people found a bit unnerving is he said if he could go back in time, he would "almost certainly" stop it all from happening.

Its one thing to want to distance yourself from your own creation, but if given the possibility to go back in time and erase it all from existence? Really strange.

Considering time machines are not real and this is never going to happen, I think people need to just realize Peter is a grown man with his own opinions and all of us complaining about them on a message board is probably part of the reason he is burnt out on the fandom in the first place.

And for the record, I was very off put when he first said that myself and then I realized his opinion doesn't change what Turtles means to me and I shouldn't really dwell on it.

I know this is kind of a pipe dream for any fandom, but I kind of wish we could shed this "let's dwell on and over analyze any negative thing we can find". We have so much good stuff happening right now with Turtles with more and more showing up everyday.

We should be happy as a collective unit right now, at least in my opinion.

[CyberCubed]

Well as for the IDW series its fairly entertaining so far, but its obvious the best is (hopefully) yet to come. I guess its taking them awhile to get through all the set-up.

Hopefully after the first Foot fight, April meets the Turtles, and Shredder/Krang get a full debut, the series can finally kick off.

[Sophie Campbell]

i mostly agree with FearlessLeader on this one, i was taken aback too at first by Laird's time machine comment, but at the same time he's lived the Turtles in a way none of us can understand. he's gotta do what he's gotta do and it doesn't have to affect how you feel or engage with TMNT.

have any of you guys read Kevin Eastman's super long interview in the Comics Journal from 1998, 2 years before he sold his share of TMNT? it really sheds a light on how a lot of the daily TMNT-running was, and a lot of it sounds like a friggin' nightmare. it's easy for us to have fun with the Turtles and everything and be fans, but for the creators it's a whole different ballgame. i just think they deserve the respect that other artists get when they want to move on or when they express clashing opinions or whatever, instead of trying to lay blame on them for "abandoning" the Turtles or something. if you really respect Eastman and Laird as artists/creators then you have to afford them that space.

PS: FearlessLeader, love your signature tag image!! it's an honor, thank you! i'm really glad you dig my cover.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by mooncalfe

have any of you guys read Kevin Eastman's super long interview in the Comics Journal from 1998, 2 years before he sold his share of TMNT? it really sheds a light on how a lot of the daily TMNT-running was, and a lot of it sounds like a friggin' nightmare. it's easy for us to have fun with the Turtles and everything and be fans, but for the creators it's a whole different ballgame. i just think they deserve the respect that other artists get when they want to move on or when they express clashing opinions or whatever, instead of trying to lay blame on them for "abandoning" the Turtles or something. if you really respect Eastman and Laird as artists/creators then you have to afford them that space.

Wholeheartedly agreed.

[marcelangelo]

I agree with all three of you andrew, fearlessleader and mooncalf...great that can see it this way...give the man some peace...and good thing you pointed out the fact that we should indeed enjoy all the things turtles that are happening at the moment all around us...it's pretty wild, sin't it?I cannot remember a time since the ot when THAT much was in progress with our favourite comic characters!...sometimes I have to step back when I see all these beautiful variant art, upcomming toys, movie pre production(okay, that's still to come), collected books and interviews about the turtles and do a quick reality check

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by mooncalfe

he revived TMNT because he wanted to, obviously, but 2001 was over a decade ago and maybe he had the re-ignited fire for it when he started but i think was pretty clear he lost it as the years went by. 10 years is a long time for feelings to change. maybe he'll be back someday, who knows, all i'm saying is that right now he's seriously burned out.

Laird was bombarded by ungrateful fan criticism for much of V4's run, he also had pollitical views that angered several readers and they picked on him for that also. Such negativity would drive anyone to tire of trying to please such ungrateful pricks.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Such negativity would drive anyone to tire of trying to please such ungrateful pricks.

Holy sh*t, I'm glad you got un-banned.

[AquaParade]

http://www.tcj.com/the-kevin-eastman...-i/eastman15a/

There's the interview in which Kevin dishes on the days of Mirage. Pretty sure it was mentioned in this tread. Very interesting read. Now this must be the kind of stuff they have been integrating into that TMNT documentary.

[FearlessLeader]

Originally Posted by mooncalfe

PS: FearlessLeader, love your signature tag image!! it's an honor, thank you! i'm really glad you dig my cover.

Geez it should be me thanking you!

I have admired your work with the guys since you did the Raphael mini-series covers back for Mirage. Leo being my favorite I have to admit I was extra thrilled when it was announced you were doing his micro-issue.

I haven't been this excited for a comic in a long time!

[Hermano Dyvas]

Hey, so what if he doesn't like it? He has a right to. In his place I probably wouldn't like what others would do to my own creation either, making the changes that IDW does. What matters is, so far I like it, in the end that's the only thing that matters

Thank you mr Laird, for creating the TMNT. I understand the viewpoint about wanting to uncreate them, it doesn't change me being a fan. I wish him the best of luck with his future endeavors.

[Konchadunga]

Originally Posted by FearlessLeader

Considering time machines are not real and this is never going to happen, I think people need to just realize Peter is a grown man with his own opinions and all of us complaining about them on a message board is probably part of the reason he is burnt out on the fandom in the first place.

I'd like to remind you, though, that Peter didn't need a time machine to squat on the franchise for ten years and slap everything in it around with his "my way or the highway" attitude, scaring away a lot of the old fanbase in the process. Don't get me wrong; I like the 4Kids series. I even like it better than the OT. (Though rewatching the 4Kids series as an adult, I notice some problems I didn't before, while rewatching the OT I notice some virtues I didn't before.) Yet it took a while for me to give it a chance at first, because it was so different. The episode that won me over was "The King," because it was the same plot as a beloved storybook I had as a kid, made during the run of the OT. (Both were based on Mirage's Donatello miniseries, though I didn't know it at the time.) Many people, though, never had that in. For most of them, the show just didn't feel like TMNT as they knew it.

I feel the first movie was very successful partially because it was effective in bridging the gap between the OT and the comics; Laird never considered such pragmatism for the 4Kids show. Also, while I could understand why he wouldn't want to bring in any elements of the OT at first, at the time when the show was mostly an adaptation of the comics, by the time the show was abandoning any pretense of respecting the source material that attitude started to feel hypocritical. Reviving Mikey's pizza obsession would have been an easy way to extend a laurel, at the cost of being maybe just a little annoying. Writing him with a new obsession with being the Battle Nexus Champion wound up making him intensely annoying to a lot of the show's existing viewers. Adding OT characters like Rocksteady and Bebop would have probably attracted more viewers to the show; adding some original characters like Cody turned a lot of existing viewers off of it.

When you add to that, Peter's reprehensibly rude commentary to the staff of the show (in his defense, 4Kids certainly has a history of screwing up what they adapt, so maybe they did make a lot of mistakes, but if any employee ever got me to the point of saying some of the rude stuff Peter said to his; I'd just fire that employee), I start to resent Peter's time ruling the franchise. It was too authoritarian, too finicky, and ultimately, too egotistical; the legacy of a man who believed he was fighting for good ideas against bad ideas, but was often really fighting for his ideas against everyone else's.

So even if he can't really take a time machine and prevent our beloved franchise from existing, it still sounds like one more butthurt expression of "If I can't have my franchise, nobody else can either." I think it's high time Laird learn that not every change made to his series for the worse, and if he really has those objectionable opinions, he might do himself a favor by remaining silent about them.

[FearlessLeader]

Originally Posted by Konchadunga

I'd like to remind you, though, that Peter didn't need a time machine to squat on the franchise for ten years and slap everything in it around with his "my way or the highway" attitude, scaring away a lot of the old fanbase in the process. Don't get me wrong; I like the 4Kids series. I even like it better than the OT. (Though rewatching the 4Kids series as an adult, I notice some problems I didn't before, while rewatching the OT I notice some virtues I didn't before.) Yet it took a while for me to give it a chance at first, because it was so different. The episode that won me over was "The King," because it was the same plot as a beloved storybook I had as a kid, made during the run of the OT. (Both were based on Mirage's Donatello miniseries, though I didn't know it at the time.) Many people, though, never had that in. For most of them, the show just didn't feel like TMNT as they knew it.

I feel the first movie was very successful partially because it was effective in bridging the gap between the OT and the comics; Laird never considered such pragmatism for the 4Kids show. Also, while I could understand why he wouldn't want to bring in any elements of the OT at first, at the time when the show was mostly an adaptation of the comics, by the time the show was abandoning any pretense of respecting the source material that attitude started to feel hypocritical. Reviving Mikey's pizza obsession would have been an easy way to extend a laurel, at the cost of being maybe just a little annoying. Writing him with a new obsession with being the Battle Nexus Champion wound up making him intensely annoying to a lot of the show's existing viewers. Adding OT characters like Rocksteady and Bebop would have probably attracted more viewers to the show; adding some original characters like Cody turned a lot of existing viewers off of it.

When you add to that, Peter's reprehensibly rude commentary to the staff of the show (in his defense, 4Kids certainly has a history of screwing up what they adapt, so maybe they did make a lot of mistakes, but if any employee ever got me to the point of saying some of the rude stuff Peter said to his; I'd just fire that employee), I start to resent Peter's time ruling the franchise. It was too authoritarian, too finicky, and ultimately, too egotistical; the legacy of a man who believed he was fighting for good ideas against bad ideas, but was often really fighting for his ideas against everyone else's.

So even if he can't really take a time machine and prevent our beloved franchise from existing, it still sounds like one more butthurt expression of "If I can't have my franchise, nobody else can either." I think it's high time Laird learn that not every change made to his series for the worse, and if he really has those objectionable opinions, he might do himself a favor by remaining silent about them.

I am honestly sitting here dumbfounded by you.

Peter created the Turtles he was perfectly within his rights to have any expectation about the franchise that he wanted while he was controlling it. I'm sorry this seems to personally offend you in some way, but I am rather clueless why you are so angry here?

Peter didn't scare any of the fan base away. We like Turtles for the Turtles not for Pete, pretty much the same people are here that were here before the start of the 2003 cartoon. If you mean he did something different with that cartoon and it didn't appeal to the people that loved the OT well that's too bad. I liked it because it was different and more like the comic books. I'm sorry that he didn't include characters you think should have been included and I'm sorry that as Peter got more busy with the 2007 movie and other aspects of the franchise towards the end of the cartoon run that he probably wasn't controlling the content of the show AS heavily (hence Cody Jones and pizza humor). I'm sorry that you don't like the way he ran things, but he doesn't anymore so you don't have to worry.

Also I'm sorry you didn't like the way he treated the employees at 4Kids, but they were professional writers, I have to take flack from people I don't even know for errors in fan fictions I write and I am not even getting paid and some of them are WAY ruder then Pete ever was. It's the nature of business. I am also pretty certain Pete didn't have control to hire or fire people at 4Kids.

I think it would benefit you to be able to walk a few steps in someone else's shoes before frankly you make such harsh judgements about someone you don't even know. Unless you were at Mirage Studios daily during the 2000's you really don't know what Pete's life was like nor what stresses he was putting up with, nor how much heart he put into the projects he choose.

I see you like me and Peter are from America. We live in a Country that allows free speech so much like you can proudly post your rant above for all of us to read, Peter is very much allowed to write pretty much whatever he wants on his blog. I suggest if it bothers you this much maybe you should stop reading it and focus your attention elsewhere on the fandom on something that will make you happier.

[Master Splinter]

Originally Posted by Konchadunga

I'd like to remind you, though, that Peter didn't need a time machine to squat on the franchise for ten years and slap everything in it around with his "my way or the highway" attitude...

-ms