Obama Healthcare upheld in court today

[PAAATE]

Originally Posted by Type 97 Chi-ha

Except is there the money for it? Wait until the economy goes bad and the government has to make cutbacks, and you think the health care system won't be affected? As an Illinois resident, I know that it will. Look at the public hospitals closing and the medical people not getting paid by Medicaid. So we Americans aren't so irrational after all.

Sweden has one of the healthiest economies in Europe at the moment.

But even if that wasn't the case, I'm pretty sure there would be other stuff to cut back on first :p Sure, health care might be affected, but I don't think it would be in any drastic way...

I'm not saying you're irrational. Different country, different culture. I'm just saying I personally don't get it.

[TMNT_Guy]

I just want to say if it wasn't Obama I wouldn't be here right now.

About two years ago I noticed that I was falling down alot recently. I assumed that I was just being a klutz, but it got worse. Eventually my lower half started to feel numb and I had to go to the bathroom more frequently. I went to the doctors and they thought it was diabetes since my Mom's side of the family has a history of it. After many, many, test and visits the doctor sent me to a podiatrist. The podiatrist said it was probably a nerve issue, not diabetes. He sent me to get an MRI and they found a cyst on my spine from T4 to C7. They then sent me to the Hershey Hospital to get an Illuminated MRI. There they found a Tumor on my spinal cord. They wanted a biopsy to see if it was cancerous and said I would be in the hospital for three or four days from it. I got the biopsy and when woke up I couldn't move my legs. Worse, I couldn't pee. The nurses were dumb founded in what to do until my Dad suggested a catheter. So hours later they moved me to my hospital room. I had to go again, but nurses said they couldn't cath me with out giving me a bladder scan first. Hours I waited for her to come back, do you know how horrible it feels to pee but no matter what it won't come out? Finally she came out, scanned me, found out my bladder was completely full, and finally did it. The next day I got a balloon catheter inserted after arguing with the doctor. Apparently, the risk of infection is worse then not being able to pee. After a week of still not being able to do anything with my lower half I was sent to Penn State Hershey Rehabilitation Hospital. After a few months I was beginning to walk with a walker. The results finally came back and it was non cancerous. However, they said the tumor is irremovable because "If it was, they would of removed it during the biopsy." Me and my Dad both thought that was bull, so we got a second opinion from Johns Hopkins and they said they could remove it. Last December I had it removed and I was sent to another rehab hospital in Pottsville. Long story short, today I'm getting around with a cane, I stall can't get all the urine out on my own, but I can get a good amount out. The surgeon at Johns Hopkins said it could take another year or two before I'm back to normal, but promised me that I would because he saw no signs of nerve damage.

That's the short version. But the point is that with out Obama's health-care reform allowing you to say on your parent's insurance until you're 26 I wouldn't of been able to get any of that done. I don't believe you should be forced to pay for health insurance, that should be optional. Heck, I don't believe you should have to have car insurance or pay taxes for your house. But after what I've been through, I can say that it's better then nothing.

I can also say most people in the medical field lack common sense.

[zkarlette]

That's a good point... i'm really sorry that you are going thru all that, I do believe in having health insurance,but I really wonder what they mean with "affordable" because I know we Pay a lot and to make matters worse there are deductibles , co payments and other stuff that even good PPO's won't cover, I'm tired of those insurance companies taking advantage of sick people they are already rolling in money.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

Originally Posted by PAAATE

Sweden has one of the healthiest economies in Europe at the moment.

But even if that wasn't the case, I'm pretty sure there would be other stuff to cut back on first :p Sure, health care might be affected, but I don't think it would be in any drastic way...

I'm not saying you're irrational. Different country, different culture. I'm just saying I personally don't get it.

When your economy turns sour then you will.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

Originally Posted by TMNT_Guy

I just want to say if it wasn't Obama I wouldn't be here right now.

About two years ago I noticed that I was falling down alot recently. I assumed that I was just being a klutz, but it got worse. Eventually my lower half started to feel numb and I had to go to the bathroom more frequently. I went to the doctors and they thought it was diabetes since my Mom's side of the family has a history of it. After many, many, test and visits the doctor sent me to a podiatrist. The podiatrist said it was probably a nerve issue, not diabetes. He sent me to get an MRI and they found a cyst on my spine from T4 to C7. They then sent me to the Hershey Hospital to get an Illuminated MRI. There they found a Tumor on my spinal cord. They wanted a biopsy to see if it was cancerous and said I would be in the hospital for three or four days from it. I got the biopsy and when woke up I couldn't move my legs. Worse, I couldn't pee. The nurses were dumb founded in what to do until my Dad suggested a catheter. So hours later they moved me to my hospital room. I had to go again, but nurses said they couldn't cath me with out giving me a bladder scan first. Hours I waited for her to come back, do you know how horrible it feels to pee but no matter what it won't come out? Finally she came out, scanned me, found out my bladder was completely full, and finally did it. The next day I got a balloon catheter inserted after arguing with the doctor. Apparently, the risk of infection is worse then not being able to pee. After a week of still not being able to do anything with my lower half I was sent to Penn State Hershey Rehabilitation Hospital. After a few months I was beginning to walk with a walker. The results finally came back and it was non cancerous. However, they said the tumor is irremovable because "If it was, they would of removed it during the biopsy." Me and my Dad both thought that was bull, so we got a second opinion from Johns Hopkins and they said they could remove it. Last December I had it removed and I was sent to another rehab hospital in Pottsville. Long story short, today I'm getting around with a cane, I stall can't get all the urine out on my own, but I can get a good amount out. The surgeon at Johns Hopkins said it could take another year or two before I'm back to normal, but promised me that I would because he saw no signs of nerve damage.

That's the short version. But the point is that with out Obama's health-care reform allowing you to say on your parent's insurance until you're 26 I wouldn't of been able to get any of that done. I don't believe you should be forced to pay for health insurance, that should be optional. Heck, I don't believe you should have to have car insurance or pay taxes for your house. But after what I've been through, I can say that it's better then nothing.

I can also say most people in the medical field lack common sense.

My late aunt, who once worked as a receptionist for a doctor, would agree with your last statement. She knew that doctors don't know, they make educated guesses. You cannot always determine what is wrong with you.

As for paying for car insurance, you don't have to buy car insurance-but you don't have to have a car either. As for "paying your own health insurance," either you do or someone else does. TANSAAFL. (There are no such things as free lunches.) Paying taxes for your house? Rent. And my story about the Massachussetts man I knew says how Obamacare will probably end up-more money without the supposed benefits. I go by how things work in practice, not on paper. Obama deliberately lied when he said his health care plan would cost less. Why believe him now?

[PAAATE]

Originally Posted by Type 97 Chi-ha

When your economy turns sour then you will.

Yeah, it probably won't though. Our minister of finance is seen as some kind of genius in the financial world. I'm not particularly fond of our right-leaning government, but in this case I love them and how they managed the crisis.

[TMNT_Guy]

Originally Posted by Type 97 Chi-ha

Paying taxes for your house? Rent

Paying Rent For a Apartment You Do Not Own= Fair.

Paying Rent For a House You Own= Unfair

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

Originally Posted by TMNT_Guy

Paying Rent For a Apartment You Do Not Own= Fair.

Paying Rent For a House You Own= Unfair

Never had economics classes? A house owner is considered by economics standards someone who pays rent to themselves (really).

Taxes aren't rent. They're what you want to pay the gummint if you don't want trouble.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

Originally Posted by PAAATE

Yeah, it probably won't though. Our minister of finance is seen as some kind of genius in the financial world. I'm not particularly fond of our right-leaning government, but in this case I love them and how they managed the crisis.

Yeah, people thought the dotcom and housing bubbles weren't going to burst either. Only a fool gets too complacent. That's whom con artists love to target.

[PAAATE]

Originally Posted by Type 97 Chi-ha

Only a fool gets too complacent.

Only a fool lets his life be run by fear of what might potentially happen, I'd say

Love>Fear; and I'd say that loving your fellow man with cheap healthcare is better than fearing this cheap healthcare because... it might go away...? What?

[Barkworm]

Just for the record: Our health care system has its problems as well. Many problems actually. It's true that Sweden for example is ahead of us in the health care department. The American situation is completely incomparable to our problems though.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

Originally Posted by PAAATE

Only a fool lets his life be run by fear of what might potentially happen, I'd say

Love>Fear; and I'd say that loving your fellow man with cheap healthcare is better than fearing this cheap healthcare because... it might go away...? What?

I'm talking not about what potentially might happen, I'm talking about what will happen. And subsidized healthcare isn't "cheap" healthcare; the costs are merely masked. And when economic bad times comes, guess where costs are going to be cut? To the people with the least political influence. So much for loving your fellow man.

[PAAATE]

Originally Posted by Type 97 Chi-ha

I'm talking not about what potentially might happen, I'm talking about what will happen.

Still not buying it. Even from a historical standpoint, Sweden was the first country to recover from the great depression in the 1930s.

Originally Posted by Type 97 Chi-ha

And subsidized healthcare isn't "cheap" healthcare; the costs are merely masked.

While this is true, I'm pretty sure the poor are still grateful that they don't have to pay so much when something bad actually happens to them, as they would've needed otherwise.

Originally Posted by Type 97 Chi-ha

And when economic bad times comes, guess where costs are going to be cut? To the people with the least political influence. So much for loving your fellow man.

When the **** hit the fan a few years ago, one of the things our government did to prevent economic bad times was to abort a planned tax cut for the rich. At least if I recall correctly.

Hell, my family's working class, and we never felt the effects of any crisis.

I dunno... This discussion we're having is kinda problematic, since I can only speak from a Swedish POV, and you can only speak from an American POV - which is the truly relevant POV for this topic - and they're obviously very different.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

Originally Posted by PAAATE

I dunno... This discussion we're having is kinda problematic, since I can only speak from a Swedish POV, and you can only speak from an American POV - which is the truly relevant POV for this topic - and they're obviously very different.

You're right, Obamacare isn't going to be anything like single-payer healthcare anyway, it's going to make people buy insurance. I'm not able to show you the newspaper articles in question that prove it, but health care services to the poor ARE cut seriously in bad economic times, and I'm not convinced this only happens in the USA. Also, you seem to have the idea that Sweden has some sort of immunity to economic downturns. They happen to everyone sooner or later.

[PAAATE]

Originally Posted by Type 97 Chi-ha

Also, you seem to have the idea that Sweden has some sort of immunity to economic downturns. They happen to everyone sooner or later.

Not at all. (Uhm... the "immune"-part, not the "happens to everyone"-part)

Sweden was affected, just not in any truly dramatic way. Well, with exceptions of course, like a few car-manufacturing-companies went broke, which sadly affected some families, but...

Was health care affected? No
Other emergency services? Well, kinda... The police were planning to go from whatever their employment-numbers are now, and grow from that, but they didn't. They stayed at the same amount of employees.
Education? No.
National government-owned television? No. In fact, they aired a few dramas the last year that've had higher production values than ever before, thanks in part due to extra money from the government.
Public transport: Yeah, their prices became a little higher.

But you know, Sweden has way higher taxes than the US, so I guess there's more to cut from? I dunno... I just woke up, and I'm too tired for this ****

Oh, and the gas-prices went way up, due in part to a higher gas-tax, but people are still driving. And even if you can't afford to drive, public transport is way cheaper than having a car anyway, so...

Holy ****, this post is too long and off-topic, but what I'm trying to say is, sure, there were effects of the economic crisis, but not any dramatic effect (except for a few people), and health care sure wasn't affected.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by Stryker

Keep on with your political rambling because it's soooooo important that you get to keep your precious precious money to fritter away on ninja turtle bullsh*t.

Originally Posted by Stryker

Also, save it Jester. Don't care about your bullsh*t either.

Posts like these don't make me mad; rather, they make me pity the person who made them.

EDIT: I originally wrote something else, but then I remembered the old adage that "if you can't say something nice then it's better not to say anything at all."

[愛]

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

EDIT: I originally wrote something else, but then I remembered the old adage that "if you can't say something nice then it's better not to say anything at all."

I remember seeing that written on a banner in my elementary school and I always thought to myself, "yeah, I'll keep them to myself so I don't get beaten up." You don't have to worry about that on the internet, though.

[LeoNerdo]

As a rule I don't talk politics outside of close-knit circles because people tend to take it too personally. I will say that I loathe everything about this bill though.

[The Stryker]

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

Posts like these don't make me mad; rather, they make me pity the person who made them.

EDIT: I originally wrote something else, but then I remembered the old adage that "if you can't say something nice then it's better not to say anything at all."

Awwwwww. Its like you think I care or something!

I stand by my statement. Don't caaaaaarrrreeeee.

[Candy Kappa]

I wonder how much a Cecum removal operation costs.