Is anyone else glad that there's little to no romance/shipping in the TMNT franchise?

[Loudo]

As for why the shipping centers around the Nick series, it's probably because the Nick series is *new*. Even the 2003 series ended four years ago, which makes it ancient in media years.

Are you sure about this? I don't think the 2012 series has had enough time yet to have more "shipping" material than the 2003 series. XD

I like how this thread describes Shippers are a separate unit of a fandom, as if that is all they are about and contribute.

Yeah, that.
I mean, I write ship fics myself but I don't post them here because I know this forum isn't frequented for the most part by people who would like to read those. That doesn't make me a separate unit of the fandom.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Pterobat

A fifth male Turtle could have been just as awful in this way.

Archie Slash almost became that when he teamed up with the turtles against Malinga.

[Pterobat]

There's a million people in media studies who will say that boys will watch things with boys, and girls will watch things with girls and boys, so it makes more sense to market to boys. But that's not something that's the ideal state of affairs.

Originally Posted by Shredded

The real issue is that half the world population are women, and it can become frustrating as hell to feel so under represented in our favourite mediums all the time, it's like never to be acknowledged at all. To only be met with fictional worlds where men are the domination species, only men can do interesting stuff or have flaws, and we are treated as an entire other species all together where it's a "big deal." every time a woman enters the picture.

"Women with important functions, flawed background and personality.. what's that?"
thanks, really mature -_-;

THANK YOU.

Jeez.

Originally Posted by Loudo

Are you sure about this? I don't think the 2012 series has had enough time yet to have more "shipping" material than the 2003 series. XD

I haven't done any formal surveys or anything, it's just an observation from my time spent Tumblring, where most Turtles posts are about the 2012 series, and that many general fandom communities are discussing currently-running shows like Dr. Who, Sherlock, and Supernatural with a lot more quantity and gusto than older shows.

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Archie Slash almost became that when he teamed up with the turtles against Malinga.

Slash is a good character, though. I think it would've been too lazy to make him a fifth member of the Turtles instead of simply being their ally, but he's definitely not a silly, naive idiot like Venus.

[CyberCubed]

I get the feeling many people watching the Nick cartoon are new to the franchise and have no experience with TMNT otherwise. That's where all these new shippers are coming from.

They never saw the two previous cartoons, movies or comics so this is their first exposure to TMNT and think this is the usual.

Boy if those shippers ever watch the older incarnations they'll be surprised how different they were.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Pterobat

Slash is a good character, though. I think it would've been too lazy to make him a fifth member of the Turtles instead of simply being their ally, but he's definitely not a silly, naive idiot like Venus.

Slash rocks when he's cool, beats up everyone and not stupid looking for palmtrees.

[Loudo]

Originally Posted by Pterobat

I haven't done any formal surveys or anything, it's just an observation from my time spent Tumblring, where most Turtles posts are about the 2012 series, and that many general fandom communities are discussing currently-running shows like Dr. Who, Sherlock, and Supernatural with a lot more quantity and gusto than older shows.

Oh, ok. I'm not familiar with Tumblr, but I'm not surprised if the 2012 is getting more comments.
However, if we are talking about things like fanarts and fanfics shipping characters together, there are plenty from the 2003 series and I think the 2012 series will need much more time to surpass its ancestor.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Shredded

I don't think adding more females would gain it more female viewers or any-thing like that at all.

No one in their life has ever gone. "Oh so that show have more girls huh? Omg! I better go watch that!" ....

If my little pony as taught us some-thing, it is that as long as characters are written well, it doesn't matter what gender they have, what marks a well written character is that any gender can relate to him/her despite of the characters or viewers gender!

The real issue is that half the world population are women, and it can become frustrating as hell to feel so under represented in our favourite mediums all the time, it's like never to be acknowledged at all. To only be met with fictional worlds where men are the domination species, only men can do interesting stuff or have flaws, and we are treated as an entire other species all together where it's a "big deal." every time a woman enters the picture.

"Women with important functions, flawed background and personality.. what's that?"
thanks, really mature -_-;

While I understand your issue and agree that women should wholeheartedly be represented respectfully in TV shows...BUT...
We're talking about kids 10 years and younger... We're not talking about viewers older than elementary school.

You really think kids have the mental capacity to identify themselves with girls when they are already trying to establish their own sexual identity in being a boy or girl? And this is the time before the whole "birds and the bees" talk...

Anyways, I have yet to see a sizable proportion of elementary school boys be proud that they watch "My Little Pony". (Ugh...sometimes people forget that we are talking about KIDS watching TMNT and its appeal to them..not grown teenagers or adults here...sheesh)

Originally Posted by Pterobat

There's a million people in media studies who will say that boys will watch things with boys, and girls will watch things with girls and boys, so it makes more sense to market to boys. But that's not something that's the ideal state of affairs.



THANK YOU.

Jeez.

Thank you Pterobat for understanding/support. I have no idea how Shredded interpreted and twisted the benign, innocuous comment into an offensive sexism issue. Oh brother...

[Pterobat]

Uh, I *was* agreeing with Shredded. I do think it's not a big deal for kids of any age to be asked to identify with people that are different from them, since, unless they're living in a box, they're going to experience that in real life. And the mentality Shredded described is a real problem, and really annoying.

When I said that "girls will watch boys and girls, but boys will only watch boys", I was *not* agreeing with that idea. It's just that, whenever you discuss gender in media, somebody will say that that's the common wisdom by the Powers that Be, usually not agreeing with that view, either.

[CyberCubed]

Well girls do tend to watch boy cartoons more than boys watching girl cartoons.

The only difference is female superhero leads like Wonder Woman and Batgirl or stuff like that.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by RiseAbove873

Who is Radical? Is she from the comics?

Yes. She's a superhero character.

[RiseAbove873]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Yes. She's a superhero character.

Thanks for the confirmation. I did a quick internet search and deleted my post after I found her, but before I read your reply.

[Type 97 Chi-ha]

Eastman and Laird themselves deliberately decided there wouldn't be female Turtles. In the Mirage series, April and Renet were the major female characters.

I remember a cartoon of Doctor Who where the series could sell a blank videotape, the title being "Doctor Who: The Great Love Scenes".

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Pterobat

Uh, I *was* agreeing with Shredded. I do think it's not a big deal for kids of any age to be asked to identify with people that are different from them, since, unless they're living in a box, they're going to experience that in real life. And the mentality Shredded described is a real problem, and really annoying.

When I said that "girls will watch boys and girls, but boys will only watch boys", I was *not* agreeing with that idea. It's just that, whenever you discuss gender in media, somebody will say that that's the common wisdom by the Powers that Be, usually not agreeing with that view, either.

Anyways, my first comments were just about that..."girls will watch boys and girls, but boys will only watch boys". I was just stating how it is, NOT my personal hardcore beliefs on how it should be. Furthermore, its followed by the fact that kids will play with other kids that they have the most interests with, and usually at that young age and young mentality its with the same gender. What I was expressing is that for a KIDS show to display deeper issues of relating to others outside of their own gender beyond the romance interest is great , but is a tall demand since most kids can't even decide what they want for dinner or what clothes to wear, much less fully grasp the innate similarities/differences between boys and girls, that we do as adults, at such a young age.
...And that adult viewers need to be aware of that.

Furthermore its unfair to place kids shows, like TMNT, as the target for much broader societal/cultural issues of sexism when NOT EVEN our own primetime, adult audience shows can get it right and they take sexism to a MUCH greater extreme.


But I have to point out though, if one were to say that only "boy shows" do that oversimplification to the other gender, isn't entirely true... there are "girl shows" (children and tween shows) that oversimplify boys into the object of "romantic interest" only and that's frustrating also. (That reinforce to girls on those shows the only boys worth dating are the good-looking, popular guys, with many Gary Stu qualities.) Of course the oversimplification/objectification is no where as bad as girls/women, but don't think us guys are immune to it either in the female realm of entertainment.

[plastroncafe]

Hooray! Fanboy misogyny 101!

You really think kids have the mental capacity to identify themselves with girls when they are already trying to establish their own sexual identity in being a boy or girl? And this is the time before the whole "birds and the bees" talk...

Just so I'm clear, kids are just boys. And boys can't identify with girls because that means they'd have to think about sex, and they're too young for that.

Is that what you're trying to say there, JLS?

Anyways, I have yet to see a sizable proportion of elementary school boys be proud that they watch "My Little Pony". (Ugh...sometimes people forget that we are talking about KIDS watching TMNT and its appeal to them..not grown teenagers or adults here...sheesh)

That's a shame, that sizable proportion of the elementary age boy market you've got your finger on the pulse of is missing out on a great show with clever writing and great character design.

All because girls are icky and confusing.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by JLS

While I understand your issue and agree that women should wholeheartedly be represented respectfully in TV shows...BUT...

So, children younger than 10 shall grow up with shows representing females as stupid?

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Hooray! Fanboy misogyny 101!

Just so I'm clear, kids are just boys. And boys can't identify with girls because that means they'd have to think about sex, and they're too young for that.

Is that what you're trying to say there, JLS?

I guess the clarified terms is gender identity, NOT sexual identity. Whoops! LOL

What I was saying is that age, kids are trying to understand the differences between being a girl and boy and its a difficult time for them to understand those differences when society tells them what behaviors/attitudes is a "girl" and "boy" and trying to sift out that from relating to a different gender in having shared personalities.

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

So, children younger than 10 shall grow up with shows representing females as stupid?

(Ugh...why are people taking this out of context...)

I'm not saying that, what I am saying is that don't expect children to have the same appreciation and cognitive awareness, like we do as adults, to fully learn about and understand the different gender in solely a KIDS show and people placing those expectations on a kids show is a tall order.

They should learn it from, and is most effective, through life experience, parental guidance, and in schools, not in a one-way form of communication (i.e. TV).

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by JLS

I guess the clarified terms is gender identity, NOT sexual identity. Whoops! LOL

What I was saying is that age, kids are trying to understand the differences between being a girl and boy and its a difficult time for them to understand those differences when society tells them what is a "girl" and "boy" between having shared personalities to relate to.

No, I get what you're saying. I just happen to think that your opinion is bunk, and offensive.

This right here:

LOL, not only that but if there were too many females in the TMNT cast then it would be more of a "sorority house" atmosphere with more drama emphasis, rather than action/fighting. The TMNT franchise would then border onto appealing to a more female demographic and probably most of us (mostly males) wouldn't find TMNT as appealing as we do now.

Is offensive.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

No, I get what you're saying. I just happen to think that your opinion is bunk, and offensive.

That kids don't have a difficult time trying to understand who they are when growing up? When peer pressure tells them what's girly or manly?

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

This right here:
Is offensive.

You noticed that boys and girls do interact with each other differently right? Between different genders and within the same gender?
...So if I said TMNT is already a fraternity house of characters, with it mostly having an all-male cast, is considered offensive too?
But honestly, how many shows do you know where there is mostly an all-female cast and a majority of them are male fans? (I'm not saying I support this unfair balance, but that's just how the TV audience gravitates toward.)

[Zulithe]

I guess you could call me a shipper of sorts. I find it amusing more than anything; I'm not that serious about it or anything. Mostly I just read the posts on tumblr and deviantart and it's fun to think about the "what if..." scenarios as well as the kind of stuff that is not likely to ever be explored in the comics or shows.

Like personally I know a lot of TMNT fans would find this reprehensible but I feel like at least one of the turtles should be gay. If it were up to me it would be Raph :p Being gay myself it's always just been something I've offhandedly thought about. Not gonna detail it more than that... I just have my own feelings and theories on it. And yeah I know it is totally ridiculous to even think about these sorts of things when they are the only ones of their kind... well, depending on which universe and whatnot you subscribe to But hey, just because they are mutant turtles doesn't mean they don't have needs!

[plastroncafe]

I find your condescension tiresome.

There is precious little difference between the wants and needs of an elementary school child, regardless of gender.

The only reason children are "confused" is when they're told they can't like something because of their gender expression. If we let kids like what they wanted to like regardless there'd be no confusion.

There's nothing wrong with a boy liking My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. It's a good show with solid writing and animation.

Just as there's nothing wrong with a girl liking TMNT, for the exact same reasons.

But you wouldn't know that when you come to places like this. Where talk of "ships" is dismissed as Girl Stuff and made "less than." It's crap, and it should be called out as crap every time it surfaces.

Just because someone doesn't play with your dolls the way that you do doesn't make them any less of a fan than you are. Get over it.
And while you're getting over it, get over the idea, no matter how subtle, that girls/women are less than boys/men. Because that's what this all boils down to.

We're not less, we're equal. And we have every right to be here.