Most Overrated TMNT Character?

[Luckyday]

Yes but what I mean by "in most incarnations", I mean that Karai is in most versions of TMNT. I wouldn't mind having Lotus brought back if she was something different and not a ninja.

[Leo656]

I'unno, I think if Lotus isn't a ninja she has a lot less of a point to begin with. I mean, you could introduce a Japanese chick named Lotus who's, I don't know, a hairdresser or a waitress or something, and it's still an entirely different character who simply shares a name. The character was conceived entirely to be a ninja; that's her entire point of existence.

I mean I guess you still could, but I'm not sure she'd still be relevant as a character.

[Luckyday]

Please, there many ways to be involved in the underworld without being a ninja. She can a elite Yakuza gang leader/member, sniper assassin, hitman/ cleaner, someone who has connections with the chinese triad, or a government spy. Lotus to me always sounds like a code name or nickname like the Shredder or Splinter.

[Leo656]

Eh, I suppose so. Honestly, you gave it more thought than I have.

The question then becomes, if she can't kick his ass, would Leo still want to tap that?

[Luckyday]

Yeah I guess but I would like to expect something different. IDK

Anyway back to topic.
Irma can sometimes come across as overrated. She just a side character and people treat her as one of the most important things in the franchise.

[Leo656]

My off-topic-ness is Legend. I'll go back on when I'm ready, not before.

I'm ready... but NOT because you said so.

And indeed, Irma's kind of non-essential. She needs more backstory. Maybe her and April went to college together, or were roomates, or something. I don't know. Other than the fact she's man-crazy we never really learn much about her, despite all the screen time she got.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Is Mona Lisa really that popular, though? She's very obscure. I never see her mentioned outside the 'Drome, and even that's rare.

Feel free to correct me, though. I just always assumed she didn't have a big following.

My friend, you don't know just how big her following is.
When I type in "mona lisa tmnt" on deviantart, the results are over 2000:
http://browse.deviantart.com/?q=mona+lisa+tmnt

...But for Lotus there's only about 40 in "lotus tmnt" on deviantart. And Lotus was in 2 episodes, compared to Mona Lisa having only 1!

Originally Posted by Leo656

And indeed, Irma's kind of non-essential. She needs more backstory. Maybe her and April went to college together, or were roomates, or something. I don't know. Other than the fact she's man-crazy we never really learn much about her, despite all the screen time she got.

Originally Posted by Leo656

Splinter comes in second for me; despite his importance to the mythology, 99% of the time he's just a living fortune cookie, Mr. Miyagi with fur. Most of the time he might as well be in a wheelchair; rarely is he required to do anything other than lecture, chastise, encourage, or give exposition through his dialog. He doesn't even have to move, let alone fight anyone. Plus, in Mirage he's kind of a prick, raising the Turtles and training them for the sole purpose of killing his blood enemy from decades ago. Think about it, Shredder must have felt like the wife in Jaws: The Revenge when he realized that the PET RAT of someone he killed ages ago had somehow come back for revenge. Pretty much Splinter's most memorable arc in the comics was being played for a chump by the Rat King. He got a little more to do in the original cartoon, but just barely. I've never really "bought" this crusty old rat having been able to physically teach the kind of stuff that the Turtles are seen doing all the time; not when the quickest he ever moves is turning off his soap operas when the guys get home.

I think the bigger question would be, would the audience actually care to know more about Irma and Splinter? I mean would an audience of kids (for the OT) and adventure-seeking adolescents/adults (for the comics) want to know the backstories of supporting characters that don't directly affect the Turtles?

Irma was only designed for comedic relief and was really only important because she was April's friend and co-worker. I think if she didn't have the dorky and humorous man-hungry crazy side to her, she would have easily been forgotten as part of the Channel 6 news crew and the audience would have questioned her presence in the show even further. I think her popularity is generally okay considering the number of episodes she was in and that it was fine we didn't know about her backstory (much less cared), because she was a secondary or even a tertiary character. What I do think is too much is when she is considered a "necessity" for the TMNT franchise, and it was surprising how many people here were advocating her (and she now most likely appear in Season 2) presence in Nick TMNT.


As for Splinter, I think the reason he's mostly only depicted to:
"rarely is he required to do anything other than lecture, chastise, encourage, or give exposition through his dialog. He doesn't even have to move, let alone fight anyone."

...is because it would give (the comic or show) too much of the spotlight on Splinter. Most of the backstories with Splinter are suffice because the reader/viewer only care about the Turtles, to put it bluntly. Yes, eventually as fans we do get more and more interested in secondary and supporting characters, but the main allure of franchise is the "TMNT" and not "TMNT & Splinter", so to speak. If Splinter was consistently fighting alongside his sons, the perilous situations the TMNT & Splinter would find themselves, would highlight more of the parental bond and put the brotherhood bonding among the TMNT into second place. (It could potentially cause even further brotherly strife, if Splinter was seen to rescue one son over the other if Splinter had to choose in saving one over the other. ...But that's a WHOLE other topic altogether.)

Originally Posted by Leo656

Seriously, though, to get on-topic... mileage may vary, but by my definition, to be "overrated" someone/thing should have had a fairly substantial or semi-recurring role in the mythology, be fondly remembered by more than a few, while at the same time having lots of potential that for some reason was never realized. Since some fairly popular characters who others have named only appeared once or twice, like Mona Lisa, they don't fit my personal criteria, since their popularity can be more attributed to "I liked that character's potential, and would like to have maybe seen them explored further" rather than simply being overrated, since they weren't even given a chance to become over-played or whatever. But again, everyone's personal definition will vary on that one, I'd rather stick to main or semi-main characters in order to be "overrated", especially the MOST overrated of all.

I guess with me, I look at it from the perspective that a reader/viewer only has so many minutes per episode and pages per comic, and that these lesser characters (in this case, Irma and Splinter in comparison to the TMNT) are just that, because the Turtles need a majority of its content (over 75%). Otherwise the direction of TMNT changes dramatically.
For argument sake, we could even throw in Casey Jones and April as being "overrated" too because we don't know their complete family histories (father, mother, siblings, all of their friends, career choices, dating partners, etc.) considering how popular they are, but as first time readers/viewers of TMNT we don't particularly care for that because we all rate their importance on just how vital they are in contributing to the Turtles' characters.

I guess I consider a character "overrated" if the popularity of that character far exceeds the character's contribution to the reinterpretation, in relation to their character degree of importance within that universe.


Thanks Leo656 for bringing up some great points! Your perspective really helps me to explain my position, and I enjoy that!

[Leo656]

You're correct in that I never specifically went looking to see how popular Mona Lisa is... I guess I'm not surprised, it's just that I rarely ever hear her mentioned.

I don't know if some of the other characters' backstories would be well-received or not, but I don't think it would hurt, either, if it was done well.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Leo656

You're correct in that I never specifically went looking to see how popular Mona Lisa is... I guess I'm not surprised, it's just that I rarely ever hear her mentioned.

Yeah Mona's very popular with a particular breed of fan...and maybe THAT'S why I'm not a fan.

[Leo656]

Those people don't bother me so whatever. I get what you're saying, though.

I'm a bit of a libertine about stuff like that. So long as nobody hurts nobody, whatever's whatever.

[The Sewer Lord]

Originally Posted by ObiWanFan4life

I'd have to say this incarnation of Shredder, I hear people who watch 2012 talk about him being a badass, but in my opinion, he's not worthy of being called a badass because of how Incompetent and Underdeveloped he is.

Correctr!!!

[Krang100]

I voted Hun, i never liked bully characters, and Hun wasn't exception, the treatment to Stockman was by far dislikeable, Stockman makes mistakes and was meamed (most of then did by Hun himself). Hun makes mistakes and his punishment wasn't too harsh in comparation to Stockman. When Stockman get the exosuit, i hoped Stockman maimed or killed Hun in a violent way, but it was frustrated. Hun is a sociopath, kills Casey father, tried to hurt April (Who not even was a fighter).

It doesn't help Hun was brought to mirage comics, when other characters deserve to be in Mirage Comics, such Krang, Bishop or Irma.

In a lesser extend, another overrate characters are Bebop and Rocksteady, although help a least they are comic relief.

[Pterobat]

Originally Posted by Krang100

I voted Hun, i never liked bully characters, and Hun wasn't exception, the treatment to Stockman was by far dislikeable, Stockman makes mistakes and was meamed (most of then did by Hun himself). Hun makes mistakes and his punishment wasn't too harsh in comparation to Stockman. When Stockman get the exosuit, i hoped Stockman maimed or killed Hun in a violent way, but it was frustrated. Hun is a sociopath, kills Hun father, tried to hurt April (Who not even was a fighter).

I assumed Hun was never dismembered in the same way because the Shredder valued Hun for his physical strength, and dismembering Hun would take away the only reason the Shredder kept him around. He only needs Stockman for his "brains". And Stockman, well, Stockman wanted to go after the man who ordered his destruction, aka the Shredder.

Mm...I'm also uncomfortable with the term "overrated", because it's another way to say, "You like this thing that you like too much".

[Lisardo]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Regarding Raph, I kinda agree. That's why Fred Wolf Raph is my favorite followed by Nick and Movie Raphael.

I love Raphael more when he's not generically angry all the time. Dammit the original toon Raphael was a stroke of genius.

Agree 100% on that one. I can't stand angry, woe-is-me Raph! I realize that's his source characterization, but still...annoying. Fred Wolf Raph was just so refreshing and funny!

[ssjup81]

What about Archie Raph? He was dark, but he was sarcastic and witty too, like OT Raph. I felt it was a nice balance.

[Tora]

Super Shredder. He made a small cameo of sorts and as Badass as he was he makes my head hurt when trying to figure out how his armor mutated as well

[Leo656]

BUT... buuuuuuut.... he WAS played by THIS GUY.....


So by that logic Super-Shredder wasn't just forgivable, he's awesome.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Tora

Super Shredder. He made a small cameo of sorts and as Badass as he was he makes my head hurt when trying to figure out how his armor mutated as well

Because he was used in the videogames as well. He was awesome in TMNT III and Turtles in Time. And in the games he could shoot fire/ice/mutagen.

[Tora]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Because he was used in the videogames as well. He was awesome in TMNT III and Turtles in Time. And in the games he could shoot fire/ice/mutagen.

I like that he was in those games but has anyone ever tried to put logic as to why his armor grew and changed in size? I just think he was wasted and didn't make really any sense.

He also drank the mutagen which didn't make much sense when touching it should have been enough right? Also what did he mutate into a large Japanese man?

[VaughnMichael]

It's hard to choose but I'm going to go with Bebop & Rocksteady.