Why do people hate 2k3 mikey?

[Luckyday]

For me, it was because of the voice. I could never get past the voice and didn't help that he was a pop culture reference joke bag although most of comedy was mostly that.

[HotNunchuckFury]

I like 2k3 Mikey. I think some of it depends on how you interpret the things he says. For example, it's been mentioned on here how he goes on about being the cute one of the four and calls Raph ugly. I just thought he was having a laugh down to the fact that they all look identical! Plus he's just trying to wind up one of his brothers (like siblings do) and Raphael's the obvious choice because he has the shortest fuse. I find his jibes in general fairly harmless.

[Xiewin]

I actually really liked FF, wish it got a second season though

[Netkeeper]

Originally Posted by HotNunchuckFury

For example, it's been mentioned on here how he goes on about being the cute one of the four and calls Raph ugly. I just thought he was having a laugh down to the fact that they all look identical! Plus he's just trying to wind up one of his brothers (like siblings do) and Raphael's the obvious choice because he has the shortest fuse. I find his jibes in general fairly harmless.

Anybody that doesn't like Raph and Mikey ragging on each other [because yes, they do it to one another in just about equal volume] has never had a sibling. That's what we do.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

Anybody that doesn't like Raph and Mikey ragging on each other [because yes, they do it to one another in just about equal volume] has never had a sibling. That's what we do.

Yep. I do it to my brother, and he does it to me. It's just how siblings interact with each other

[Netkeeper]

Originally Posted by whatswiththeheadbands?

Yep. I do it to my brother, and he does it to me. It's just how siblings interact with each other

It's how me and my six siblings ALL interact with one another. Be glad we've never all been in the same room before.

[tmntpower1988]

Mikey's scream is hilarious, I bust out laughing every time he does it

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Ah, another anti-Mikey thread. *sigh* I feel like he gets so much flack by fans in this series, simply because he gets so much focus in certain episodes, and usually for his BAD traits. Yes, he can get a little obnoxious and egotistical in a FEW episodes, (mostly during the early part of season 4 after the BNC arc, and again during FF) but he DESERVED that win, and the one in the Grudge Match episode, too. I do occasionally wonder how he would have fared against either Usagi or Leo (who were both clearly contenders until they got taken out by outside interference) but against anyone else? He was hands-down the next in line. And his bragging afterwards never felt over-the-top like some claim- he just REALLY felt vindicated by his one real accomplishment over his brothers. Because ultimately, what else did he HAVE? Not much.

His compassion rarely got dealt with- only a handful of episodes even touched on it- likewise his creativity or resourcefulness. The Christmas episode was perfect, IMHO, showing just how GOOD he could be in ALL aspects of his persona. He foiled the robbery SINGLE-HANDEDLY, rescued the lost kitty, and managed to remind his brothers- and everyone ELSE present- that Christmas was really about thinking of others, all in a single episode.

With Touch and Go, he showed how clever he could be at manipulating a fight, how well he could push the buttons of his opponents, and how good he is at recognizing an enemy's weaknesses. While his occasional bouts of arrogance may seem over-the-top to some, they really balance him out as a character against the more positive traits. Sadly, it's those bad aspects of his character that tend to get the most attention. Probably because they are more obvious, while his better side is more subtle in nature. Remember in the FF episode where they first encounter Shokunobo(sp?)? In the movie house that was showing the monster marathon, he basically took over as both guide, movie expert, and authority on the situation at hand. He understood enough about common reactions in horror films to know what NOT to do. And he was right.

What's always annoyed me most about this version of him is NOT Mikey himself, but how his brothers treat him, IN SPITE of knowing his potential and that he really IS as good as they are, if not better in some ways. And yet, Raph especially STILL treats him as basically the joke of the family, Donnie brushes him off, and Leo mostly just seems to ignore him! What's a guy gotta do to get some credit??!! Apparently, take it up to a level that virtually guarantees he'll get noticed. Which seems to be what he does, for the most part. I actually like this version of him a lot, and I find it kind of sad that the one character who really NEEDS attention and validation more than the others so rarely gets it. He's considered the "kid brother", with all the lack of respect and consideration that such a role implies- and it definitely shows in the writing.

And while he may be obsessive and lazy at times, I feel like that's his escape from the insanity that has dominated his life through most of the series. In his quieter moments away from his family, he seems far more introspective, thoughtful, and calmer. It's like his natural defense is to throw up the mask of "obnoxious goof-off" and pretend to not care. Yet even later when the others are about to "graduate" in FF and it's suggested that he won't, he is upset, and he feels inadequate to the challenge of the proposed test. He even decides that he didn't truly EARN his place among them, and is willing to give up the title and keep working to earn it, which suggests that he understands his own limitations much better than the others do of themselves. It's one of the reasons he's always been my favorite of the four- in spite of his flaws, he's very grounded and has more sides than is obvious at first glance.

[pennydreadful]

Agreed, that was spot on, Marvel! You said everything that I feel inside but aren't smart enough to express properly!

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Awww, shucks. Thanks guys.....

[Netkeeper]

Absolutely amazing.

Though, I will state for the record that I do generally interpret Mikey's brothers' treatment of him to mostly be affectionate in nature as opposed to outright awful. Most of the time if Mike's on the receiving end of some harshness, it's for a good reason, as when the times really call for it he's still treated the same as all the others. You know, like that early episode where Raph says it was nice knowing everyone, Mikey asks "even me?" and the response is "especially you". It's usually just an affectionate teasing when he's being mocked, since he'll do it right back.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Unless you count all the times when they just outright seem to do it as a knee-jerk reaction, or when Leo stopped Raph from doing so- only to do it himself. One incident in particular sticks in my mind, when Mikey is trying to get Don to work on the truck they "borrowed" from the Dragons (Is it just me, or do they get ALL their gear through having sticky fingers??!!) and Donnie just shrugs off his ideas without even giving it a second thought- yet later when Splinter suggest the EXACT SAME THING, he is all for it! Talk about not getting any respect....

It's exactly that sort of lack of respect that led to his over-doing it on claiming "bragging rights" regarding the Battle Nexus. Probably explains a lot of his other more annoying habits, as well. Maybe he just figures that if no one is going to listen anyway, why not just annoy the heck out of them to at least get SOME kind of response! And I really feel that the others take the others' treatment of him as going too far on many occasions. And sadly, even Splinter seems guilty of this blatant disregard. But at least he doesn't take it to extremes like the boys do. At least when Splinter does it, it's usually for a (more-or-less) good reason.

[Netkeeper]

What... truck from the Dragons? Are you talking about that first armoured vehicle that became the Battle Shell? Because Don listened to Mikey about that, though it did take some convincing to get him to budge on that. Splinter didn't suggest that. If you're not talking about that, I don't know what else you could be talking about.

[Also yeah the turtles, especially Donnie, are a little klepto, aren't they? :V]

[Turo602]

I never liked how inconsistent Mikey was in 2k3. He's brave, selfless, and kind, but he's also a coward, obnoxious, and arrogant. What gives? Most people hate him because he was just plain annoying, which did bother me from time to time, but my biggest gripe with him was how he was portrayed as a coward on many occasions. Yeah, he kicked ass and even proved himself to be one of the stronger turtles despite his laziness, but he's supposed to be a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle... why the cowardice? Even in serious situations, he acts like he'd rather sit the fight out and make his brothers fight. It just completely ruins his character.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

What... truck from the Dragons? Are you talking about that first armoured vehicle that became the Battle Shell? Because Don listened to Mikey about that, though it did take some convincing to get him to budge on that. Splinter didn't suggest that. If you're not talking about that, I don't know what else you could be talking about.

[Also yeah the turtles, especially Donnie, are a little klepto, aren't they? :V]

Yes, it was that armored truck. And Donnie never even paid attention to his ideas until Splinter's little "Why walk when you can ride?" speech. Until that point, he kept brushing Mikey off and suggesting he go "make himself useful". (Meaning he wanted him out of his "hair", so to speak.) Don barely even looked at the design Mikey came up with- yet when they all got together and worked on the upgrades to the vehicle, whose ideas did he use??!! Yup- it was Mike's. That entire episode seems to illustrate just how little credit they give him most of the time. I wanted to smack Donnie for acting like such a jerk to him. Oddly enough, Mikey never said a word about it, or even acknowledged that it was HIS idea to begin with. I find that interesting- it's like he didn't care about getting credit for the idea, he just wanted Don to build it. And once they started working on it, he was happy. Too bad it took Splinter to get Don off his duff to build it!

And them being kleptos is something I've noticed in ALL versions- even the OT did it. Most of the equipment they had in that series originally came from Baxter's first lab or from tech confiscated from the Technodrome, including Baxter's van! (Which was converted into the Party Wagon.) Apparently, they are not above theft when it suits their needs....

Originally Posted by Turo602

I never liked how inconsistent Mikey was in 2k3. He's brave, selfless, and kind, but he's also a coward, obnoxious, and arrogant. What gives? Most people hate him because he was just plain annoying, which did bother me from time to time, but my biggest gripe with him was how he was portrayed as a coward on many occasions. Yeah, he kicked ass and even proved himself to be one of the stronger turtles despite his laziness, but he's supposed to be a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle... why the cowardice? Even in serious situations, he acts like he'd rather sit the fight out and make his brothers fight. It just completely ruins his character.

Funny, but I never saw it as cowardice- we know perfectly well that he's just as brave as the rest when the chips are down. To me, it was always that he didn't want to get into that fight or situation in the first place. Usually because the fights/situations where he seemed more "cowardly" were ALSO the ones where they were so far out of their league of experience (Notes From the Underground, anyone?) that he just felt it was a really bad idea to get into that situation at all. And he was usually right!

Why was he the only one who felt uncomfortable in that situation, or realized that they were dealing with something they had NO knowledge of? Particularly in light of the dream he'd had at the beginning. It was perfectly understandable to be cautious and even downright worried- and yet none of the others heeded his warnings. A coward wouldn't have even gone with them, he would have just slunk back to the lair and hid. Same goes for the FF movie marathon- he knew all too well the kind of dangers that could be lurking in the dark in that episode (and by that point, he had good REASON to expect just about ANYTHING to attack) but again, the others scoffed at his concerns- until it was almost too late. He might be a little over-cautious at times, but he certainly had good instincts!

[Turo602]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Funny, but I never saw it as cowardice- we know perfectly well that he's just as brave as the rest when the chips are down. To me, it was always that he didn't want to get into that fight or situation in the first place. Usually because the fights/situations where he seemed more "cowardly" were ALSO the ones where they were so far out of their league of experience (Notes From the Underground, anyone?) that he just felt it was a really bad idea to get into that situation at all. And he was usually right!

It's cowardice no matter how you slice it. The fact that it takes chips being down for him to be as brave as the rest is already a problem. He's definitely just as skilled or more skilled than some of the others, yet he doesn't utilize himself like the rest.

Why was he the only one who felt uncomfortable in that situation, or realized that they were dealing with something they had NO knowledge of?

He wasn't, he was just a coward. The others knew the dangers too.

Particularly in light of the dream he'd had at the beginning. It was perfectly understandable to be cautious and even downright worried- and yet none of the others heeded his warnings.

Being cautious and worried isn't the same as not doing anything in battle but complaining about how scared you are.

A coward wouldn't have even gone with them, he would have just slunk back to the lair and hid.

Which is something he attempted. The only reason he was there was because they forced him.

Same goes for the FF movie marathon- he knew all too well the kind of dangers that could be lurking in the dark in that episode (and by that point, he had good REASON to expect just about ANYTHING to attack) but again, the others scoffed at his concerns- until it was almost too late. He might be a little over-cautious at times, but he certainly had good instincts!

And there lies my problem... He's an inconsistent character. He's a complete coward in one instance, and in another he has no problem hunting down Leatherhead just to be a complete coward later on against Kluh in the battle nexus and in his rematch.

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by whatswiththeheadbands?

Seriously, why do some(not all) people think he is the worst incarnation of the character?

I thought that 2003 Mikey is the second best incarnation of the character, next to the 2012 version of the character, who is my favorite incarnation of the character.

anyway, why do people hate the 2k3 version of the character?

I couldn't tell you, but I understand why raph fans are upset by the interpretation of his character. So bland and one dimensional at time

[Cure]

I agree with Turo, but I'm not gonna post a gif of how much I wanna have sex with him because I'm not weird.

[Machias Banshee]

MsMarvelDuckie,

That has to be one of the best interpretations of 2K3 Michelangelo I've ever read.

Everything you said about him trying to prove himself, and not just be "Leo's/Donnies/Raph's brother" or "the baby of the family"... having to constantly tell himself that he's not just a joke or a failure. Hiding behind a silly mask... or using humor to hide what he really feels.

I've always related most to Mike because he and his brothers reminds me so much of me and my older brothers. It hits so close to home... but it's perfect.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by Turo602

It's cowardice no matter how you slice it. The fact that it takes chips being down for him to be as brave as the rest is already a problem. He's definitely just as skilled or more skilled than some of the others, yet he doesn't utilize himself like the rest.

He wasn't, he was just a coward. The others knew the dangers too.

Being cautious and worried isn't the same as not doing anything in battle but complaining about how scared you are.

Which is something he attempted. The only reason he was there was because they forced him.

And there lies my problem... He's an inconsistent character. He's a complete coward in one instance, and in another he has no problem hunting down Leatherhead just to be a complete coward later on against Kluh in the battle nexus and in his rematch.

I'm not sure you understand what being a coward really means. Yes, in all those situations, he WAS quite scared. And with good reason. The others may have "known" the dangers, but they were far less concerned about them than he was. Call it overconfidence or simple underestimation of what they were getting into. At several points in Notes, Mikey points out that they don't know what they are dealing with, and urges them not to go poking into things they don't understand. He did the same thing in that C'thulu episode, which was certainly creepy as heck. In each case, they ended up getting in WAAY over their heads, in spite of his warnings.

In all of those cases, he seemed to have a far better grasp of the danger levels than the others did, possibly because of his "obsession" with horror movies- he fully EXPECTED something nasty and dangerous, and could easily imagine it being more than they could handle- more so than his brothers, who were far more confident and cool about those situations than they should have been. Any SANE person would have been much more concerned than they appeared to be, especially in Notes, when they found the claw marks and the acid that ate through the walls. That should have clued them in that they were dealing with something they might not be able to handle- but they basically just shrugged and kept going, with little pause even to consider what kind of creature could be capable of such a thing. Then again, Leo IS the "fearless" one, and he tends to brush off a lot of things that others would shy from, and Raph wouldn't want to be outdone by Leo, and Donnie is just too curious for his own darn good at times. Given their personalities, it's no wonder Mikey was the one with all the sense in those episodes!

In contrast to his supposed "cowardice" in those episodes, REAL cowardice means that a person will attempt to avoid the perceived danger AT ALL COSTS, not just "when the chips are down" but will not even put themselves in the dangerous position AT ALL. Mikey has NEVER done that. Yes, he gets scared- who wouldn't in those situations?- but he NEVER refused to fight or to aid his brothers when in need, nor was he "forced" into anything. At any point, he could have left, and there's little they could have done to stop him. Particularly after the others had all been captured by the Atlantean guy. But he didn't. He stayed, in SPITE of being nervous and uncomfortable about those situations. And he pushed aside his fear to deal with the problem at hand. Hardly the acts of a coward.

Grumbling about having a bad feeling about something, and admitting fear, is NOT the same as cowardice- it's simply knowing that the situation is dangerous, and vocalizing that acknowledgement. In fact, in the Shokunobo one, he practically took the lead in getting everyone out safely! That's not the act of a coward. Real bravery is ACTING IN SPITE OF one's fear, stepping up when needed, even though one might be absolutely terrified. Bravery is not the ABSENCE of fear, it is being able to set it aside and get through the danger. A coward would not be able to do that, even under duress. He'd crumple under pressure, if that was the case. In none of those cases- even when he was most afraid, did he back down, turn tail, and run. He pushed through his fears, which a coward COULD NOT do. That's the difference. Even when he wanted to turn back in Notes, he didn't, partly because he didn't want to leave his brothers to face whatever was ahead without him, and partly because he didn't want to be left alone himself. In other words, he realized that there was safety in numbers, and that they might need him. That's not cowardice, it's common sense.

Nor was he a coward in the Battle Nexus or Grudge Match- he didn't think he could win, and he WAS very insecure and felt his chances were slim, but that's not the same thing either. In both fights, when he realized that there was more at stake than a simple tournament, he stepped up and showed his true colors- and won. Asking Leo for help knowing that he was woefully unprepared for the fight in Grudge Match shows that he knew he was in a bad position, not that he was a coward. There's nothing at all wrong with admitting to one's weaknesses, and that one needs help.

You seem to be confusing fear with cowardice, and they are not equivalent. One does not automatically indicate the other, and in all those instances, Mikey proved he was equal to the challenge, even when he was MOST afraid. That's NOT a coward, it's true courage.