Do you think April is a Mary-Sue?

[Papenbrook]

I am not trying to cause controversy. I want to ask a simple question.

[BubblyShell22]

I don't think she's a total Mary Sue at all, though she does have qualities that many label her as a Mary Sue such as the psychic powers, her progression as a kunoichi, and the fact that Don has a crush on her. But I don't believe that at all as she's not nearly as skilled as the Turtles yet, she hasn't used her psychic powers that much in the show, and the crush is mostly one-sided on Don's part. Plus, a Mary Sue takes the spotlight away from the main characters, and April certainly hasn't done that at all, so she's not really a Sue as some would label her.

[ObiWanFan4life]

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

I don't think she's a total Mary Sue at all, though she does have qualities that many label her as a Mary Sue such as the psychic powers, her progression as a kunoichi, and the fact that Don has a crush on her. But I don't believe that at all as she's not nearly as skilled as the Turtles yet, she hasn't used her psychic powers that much in the show, and the crush is mostly one-sided on Don's part. Plus, a Mary Sue takes the spotlight away from the main characters, and April certainly hasn't done that at all, so she's not really a Sue as some would label her.

Exactly. But she's dangerously close to reaching Mary Sue Status.

[Ninjinister]

No... she's April O'Neil. How the hell...?

[CyberCubed]

People need to stop visiting TVtropes and learn what a Mary Sue actually is.

[plastroncafe]

No I don't believe that April is a Mary Sue.
Having said that I think a strong case for her being a MacGuffin could be made.

[Leo656]

I frankly hate all these terms for fictional characters. People over-think the hell out of everything anymore. I'm surprised TV writers nowadays aren't mandated to sit down with a checklist of "Do/Do-Not" bullet points for creating characters. "Hmm, can't do THAT, that'll make her a Mary Sue, and the internet nerds will cry buckets about how unoriginal and uninspired it is. Hmmm, can't do THAT, either, or they'll cry and say 'It's Just Fan-Service'..."

Are they telling you guys the story, or are you telling them the story? Part of why I long ago stopped writing fanfic. I only did it for fun, and I stopped when I realized that I sure didn't need someone going through it with a fine-toothed comb explaining how my honest, best-effort ideas were "incorrect" (Which never actually happened, but I figured it would eventually, so I quit while I was ahead). So I can only imagine how people who get *paid* to write stuff and create characters feel when a bunch of people sit around taking the piss out of what they came up with, because it doesn't fit an arbitrary list of made-up "Rules". Lighten up.

[TurtleTitan97]

Not really, no.

[Midnight Mutant]

Not at all.

[drgon78]

No, not all.

[Leofan26]

Heck no, a marry Sue is some one who can do every thing without flaws. April is far from that, don't get me wrong she's my least favorite of this series so it's not like I defend her all the time, just giving my opinion on what I feel is a marry Sue and April isn't that. Though she is getting better martial arts thanks to training with Splinter but...

[Klap Klap]

Sure, April has a lot more advantages in this cartoon, but I'd say she's far from a Mary-Sue. With that said, I do think they gave her a bit too much when it comes to value.

- Immune to Mutagen (Mutant Origin)
- Psychic Blasts
- Advanced Perception ("Spider Sense")

Personally, I believe April's damsel role in the 87' show was more charming. She's always been involved in conflict, being a reporter will do that, but the Nick show takes it to a level I'm not entirely supportive of. You have to ask yourself if you enjoy April being the center of the Kraang conspiracy or simply a trusted friend of the Turtles.

(Also, I have to admit I'm a little bummed that this will never be part of the show. But hey! It's been done already. I'll just be glad it existed.)

[BubblyShell22]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I frankly hate all these terms for fictional characters. People over-think the hell out of everything anymore. I'm surprised TV writers nowadays aren't mandated to sit down with a checklist of "Do/Do-Not" bullet points for creating characters. "Hmm, can't do THAT, that'll make her a Mary Sue, and the internet nerds will cry buckets about how unoriginal and uninspired it is. Hmmm, can't do THAT, either, or they'll cry and say 'It's Just Fan-Service'..."

Are they telling you guys the story, or are you telling them the story? Part of why I long ago stopped writing fanfic. I only did it for fun, and I stopped when I realized that I sure didn't need someone going through it with a fine-toothed comb explaining how my honest, best-effort ideas were "incorrect" (Which never actually happened, but I figured it would eventually, so I quit while I was ahead). So I can only imagine how people who get *paid* to write stuff and create characters feel when a bunch of people sit around taking the piss out of what they came up with, because it doesn't fit an arbitrary list of made-up "Rules". Lighten up.

Couldn't have put it better myself, Leo. Yes, this is what I hate, too. If someone has a unique ability, they're suddenly labeled as a Mary Sue/Gary Stu. I once had a reviewer tell me that my characters were Mary Sue and that even my cats (yes I had cats in the story that the characters adopted) were even Mary Sue. What the hell? How can a cat be a Mary Sue? I still write fan fiction and if people don't like my OCs, I don't care. I'm still going to write them and that's that.

As for April, it would be different if she was shown in every episode and if the plot totally revolved around her, which it doesn't. And if she used her powers a lot, then maybe I could see it, but she doesn't do that either. She's there when the plot calls for her and absent when it doesn't. That's pretty much it.

[Candy Kappa]

She certainly have the ability to turn into a Mary Sue, she is a quick martial arts learner, got psychic powers. But she hasn't saved the day or done anything Mary Sue'ish as taking over the show, and she isn't unbeatable.

[Konchadunga]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I frankly hate all these terms for fictional characters. People over-think the hell out of everything anymore. I'm surprised TV writers nowadays aren't mandated to sit down with a checklist of "Do/Do-Not" bullet points for creating characters. "Hmm, can't do THAT, that'll make her a Mary Sue, and the internet nerds will cry buckets about how unoriginal and uninspired it is. Hmmm, can't do THAT, either, or they'll cry and say 'It's Just Fan-Service'..."

Are they telling you guys the story, or are you telling them the story? Part of why I long ago stopped writing fanfic. I only did it for fun, and I stopped when I realized that I sure didn't need someone going through it with a fine-toothed comb explaining how my honest, best-effort ideas were "incorrect" (Which never actually happened, but I figured it would eventually, so I quit while I was ahead). So I can only imagine how people who get *paid* to write stuff and create characters feel when a bunch of people sit around taking the piss out of what they came up with, because it doesn't fit an arbitrary list of made-up "Rules". Lighten up.

Since you've expressed a number of issues you have with this show, I find such a statement hypocritical. Criticisms don't become invalid just because they utilize an evolved lexicon; even if they at times become easier for humbugs to fake.

The fact is this; quite a lot of people who write fanfiction fall into the trap of making one character; original or pre-existing, too potent or too important or both. This flaw predates the term "Mary-Sue," to the point that the term was actually invented by a writer spoofing such characters. If you don't care to have a fanfiction picked apart, then fine; don't write them, but it's just plain unreasonable to suggest that every person who claims to be writing for the entertainment and consumption of others should merely sink into lalaland and listen to their ego alone. Fanfiction is infamous for that for good reason; people are naturally to at least some degree selfish, and when the tangible benefit of getting paid for their work is not an option, they too readily seek abstract gain in the form of self-gratifying drivel.

Yet while fanfiction is infamous for it, it does happen from time to time in actual, for-profit media. Venus De Milo is one of the most glaring examples of a Mary Sue in any franchise, and given the damage her show did to the brand's credibility, it is perfectly understandable that the fandom (and hopefully writers) have a firm anti-Mary Sue alarmist stance now.

My opinion: Whether Nick April is a Mary Sue is rather vague because she's underutilized. She's at the center of the Kraang story arc, as well as Donatello's crush, but those aspects of the plot are touched on so infrequently as to make it hard to see how important she is or isn't. Likewise, we don't know if April is unreasonably multi-talented, because we don't get to know about her enough to know what all her talents are. Then there's inconsistency regarding her abilities. In one episode, she beats Karai (though it's heavily implied it was a fluke), and then in others she merely endures against the foot soldiers while the Turtles and Casey do most of the fighting. Overall, I don't think April is a Mary Sue, but she's not a very interesting character, and based on Ciro Nieli's statements, maybe she'd become one if she became more central to the plot.

[Candy Kappa]

There is nothing wrong with a Mary Sue character as long as the character is written well.

Batman is one of the biggest Mary Sue characters out there.

[Klap Klap]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

There is nothing wrong with a Mary Sue character as long as the character is written well.

Batman is one of the biggest Mary Sue characters out there.

Mary Sue characters can NEVER be written well. In fact, it means the total opposite. A well written character has particular faults and challenges to overcome that makes them both relatable and someone to root on.

Batman is NOT a Mary Sue. He has problems and fears that he too must rise above. Batman is flawed, which is the epitome of a well written character.

[Konchadunga]

The measure of a Mary-Sue is the surrounding world. In another situation, someone with Batman's many talents could certainly be a Mary-Sue, but, it needs to be stated, so could someone with very few talents. Bella Swan is frequently called a MS despite being a pretty worthless wuss, because of how everyone lines up to cater to her. The label refers to characters who, either through unreasonable gifts or inexplicable circumstances, never face any real challenges and waltz through life. That is obviously not Batman, who faces foes that are a match for him, and never really wins his war on crime.

[n-zero]

April fits a lot of the criteria, but as the whole show hasn't been sucked in by the gravity of an April-shaped singularity, she isn't a true Mary Sue.

And Mary Sues are only mostly a bad thing. There are franchises that have thrived off of their Sue. The modern "Bat God" interpretation of Batman is a textbook Mary Sue, for example. Less so in his own books, but definitely on the Justice League.

[Konchadunga]

Batman certainly can seem a bit too powerful when put on equal terms with metahumans, but it's worth noting he's the version of a superhero many fans like the best. Not that many people actually like Superman these days, and Wonder Woman's popularity has waned in a world where the concept of a female superhero is no longer seen as an exciting feminist milestone. Batman also has the benefit of loads of backstory to some degree explaining why he has what he has.