About seeing TMNT 2

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by ScrewtheMirageTMNT

2. Um, the only turtle stuff that got cut out involved raph, none of the other turtles.

How do we know... For all we are aware there could still be other stuff that didn't make it in that we simply never knew about.

People who didn't like like the movie for the most part are letting their disapproval make them state baseless and hollow statements.

I assure you that is capable of happening on either side. Some angry nostalgia glasses and some lovestruck rose colored glasses are equally as thick.

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

How do we know... For all we are aware there could still be other stuff that didn't make it in that we simply never knew about.


I assure you that is capable of happening on either side. Some angry nostalgia glasses and some lovestruck rose colored glasses are equally as thick.

If there was we would have known about it by now, there would have been proof. Eh, they still look like the dominant bunch from the looks of it.

[chrisdude]

Originally Posted by Galactus

The idea that a sequel out grosses the original is a fairly modern convention. Traditionally sequels made progressively less apart from a few anomalies.

A lot of people have said that this movie has opened with similar figures to Thor and Captain America: The First Avenger but the generally feeling from those movies was positive whereas TMNT has been a lot more divisive.

What TMNT does have going for it is the morbid curiosity that the next one will be different especially as they're going to go with fan favorite characters, Of course that's were it personally falls down for me.

The movie is divisive here, sure. But I certainly haven't gotten that impression elsewhere. My friends liked it. I haven't actually talked to anyone who was disappointed...

[Xiewin]

Originally Posted by ScrewtheMirageTMNT

If there was we would have known about it by now. Eh, they still look like the dominant bunch from the looks of it.

ehh..I wouldn't be so sure of that.

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

Or we would have known about it before the movie was released.

[Bry]

Originally Posted by RaphaelinSTL

Dude. I hear ya. I think about this movie sometimes and I get the same kind of feeling every now and then.

Oh and apparently there's an interview up with the film maker's in where they discuss more about a possible sequel.

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/teenag...news/?a=106443

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/right...2_original.gif

Reading more of that interview makes me sad, hopefully this thing finds a way to get pushed back and cancelled.

And that tells me everything I need to know. It's gonna be another bad, stupid movie, because they don't care about making something that even tries for anything deeper, or even something that makes a bit of sense. Big, dumb "fun". That's it.

And sure, "dumb fun" has a place. But you can do that and give the story some redeeming qualities. You can do that in a well-written movie that makes sense, has actual characters and even has a bit of a "point" or a message. Kids' movies do that all the time, but these guys don't care about any of that, at all. They've set the bar so low you could trip over it.

It's the "turn your brain off" argument. I can't get behind that. People turn their brains off too often as it is - give me something entertaining that actually has some meaning and some themes I can think about. Something that makes me feel something from a place of genuine emotion. If you're expecting me hand over my hard-earned money and clap and cheer because Mikey farted and made a boner joke and then something exploded... no, guys. No. Try harder. I'm not rewarding that. I don't know why anyone would. We need higher standards.

[RaphaelinSTL]

Originally Posted by Bry

And that tells me everything I need to know. It's gonna be another bad, stupid movie, because they don't care about making something that even tries for anything deeper, or even something that makes a bit of sense. Big, dumb "fun". That's it.

And sure, "dumb fun" has a place. But you can do that and give the story some redeeming qualities. You can do that in a well-written movie that makes sense, has actual characters and even has a bit of a "point" or a message. Kids' movies do that all the time, but these guys don't care about any of that, at all. They've set the bar so low you could trip over it.

It's the "turn your brain off" argument. I can't get behind that. People turn their brains off too often as it is - give me something entertaining that actually has some meaning and some themes I can think about. Something that makes me feel something from a place of genuine emotion. If you're expecting me hand over my hard-earned money and clap and cheer because Mikey farted and made a boner joke and then something exploded... no, guys. No. Try harder. I'm not rewarding that. I don't know why anyone would. We need higher standards.

Exactly. It's one track mind entertainment, there should be something more substantial to it.

[Xiewin]

Originally Posted by Bry

And that tells me everything I need to know. It's gonna be another bad, stupid movie, because they don't care about making something that even tries for anything deeper, or even something that makes a bit of sense. Big, dumb "fun". That's it.

And sure, "dumb fun" has a place. But you can do that and give the story some redeeming qualities. You can do that in a well-written movie that makes sense, has actual characters and even has a bit of a "point" or a message. Kids' movies do that all the time, but these guys don't care about any of that, at all. They've set the bar so low you could trip over it.

It's the "turn your brain off" argument. I can't get behind that. People turn their brains off too often as it is - give me something entertaining that actually has some meaning and some themes I can think about. Something that makes me feel something from a place of genuine emotion. If you're expecting me hand over my hard-earned money and clap and cheer because Mikey farted and made a boner joke and then something exploded... no, guys. No. Try harder. I'm not rewarding that. I don't know why anyone would. We need higher standards.

Still figuring out why would anyone who was involved in this movie be proud of it. Not saying that no one can like it for what it is, but wouldn't you like to see something better overall?

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

The movie has themes and a message.

[Bry]

I admit, "don't burn down your place of employment while you and your child are inside" is a pretty good message.

"If you're already super rich, don't hatch inane evil schemes to murder innocent people in order to somehow get richer" holds up too.

"Don't try to poison everyone in New York City or else Will Arnett will knock you out" is iffy.

"If your kids like Gwen Stefani, you should teach them martial arts"? That might be the best one, now that I think about it.

[RaphaelinSTL]

Originally Posted by ScrewtheMirageTMNT

The movie has themes and a message.

I don't know man, it's forced and not organic though. You don't get enough time with the characters to believe the ham-fisted attempts of themes of "family."

They have to keep pushing it in your face as opposed to letting the story give you a sense of it. I mean come on, the Turtles have a spray painted sign of "family?" Pretty hokey.

It's why Raph's big speech at the end of the film holds no weight.

[Bry]

"If you are Will Arnett, William Fichtner or Academy Award-winner Whoopi Goldberg, you should ask to read the script before signing a contract." That's the message that's going to resonate for years to come.

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

Originally Posted by RaphaelinSTL

I don't know man, it's forced and not organic though. You don't get enough time with the characters to believe the ham-fisted attempts of themes of "family."

They have to keep pushing it in your face as opposed to letting the story give you a sense of it. I mean come on, the Turtles have a spray painted sign of "family?" Pretty hokey.

It's why Raph's big speech at the end of the film holds no weight.

1. Organic? As in simple? What's forced and not organic?
2. Ham-fisted? Subjective.
3. Spray painted sign that says family? So what? That is a strange criticism. Hokey as in what? Being old fashioned? Very silly? Sentimental? That is nothing, there could have been a lot of group photos of the turtles and splinter all over their place.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by chrisdude

The movie is divisive here, sure. But I certainly haven't gotten that impression elsewhere. My friends liked it. I haven't actually talked to anyone who was disappointed...

I think the movie is divisive all over. Putting aside the professional reviews some of which were from people who class themselves as fans, or even internet personalities like Andre the Black Nerd or Nostalgia Critic it's pretty obvious looking around that a lot of people (for whatever reasons) didn't like it to go along with all those that did.

I'd also point out the audience for this isn't that sizable. Sure it's a #1 box office "hit" but you'd think that a TMNT movie in an age were Transformers is making billions should be attracting more people at least enough to have made it's budget back by now. I think it's safe to assume that people that are choosing to stay away is because what they've seen they didn't care for.

Originally Posted by ScrewtheMirageTMNT

The movie has themes and a message.

Like?

Originally Posted by Xiewin

Still figuring out why would anyone who was involved in this movie be proud of it. Not saying that no one can like it for what it is, but wouldn't you like to see something better overall?

Well they're not going to come out and say that the movie was a mess really.

Even so I feel some sympathy that even while saying he feels to be the "right" thing in what fans want to hear he can't help saying the "wrong" thing. That interview seems to a be a good example - there has often been a debate whether the movies should follow Mirage or Fred Wolf and almost always fans of the latter argue that Bebop & Rocksteady could work in a modern context if they were more akin to the first season snarling beasts but it seems Leibesman feels he later season bunglers is what fans want.

Strangely I think Bebop and Rocksteady could work well in the Michael Bay style if like the first season of the show however it makes you think how they'd contrast with the hulk-like turtles.

I'm not sure Kevin Eastman's artwork should really be an inspiration for the designs. Stuff like the Next Mutation designs and the like aren't what fans or anyone wants to see. I love Bodycount but in the same way as I love All Star Batman and Robin.

I hope he is sincerely in looking at other characters but really look. Not just still images but root out what's good and why it's considered good. Simply putting a character like Karai and have her doing nothing is not fanservice or conducive to making a good movie for anyone. I realize plowing through cartoons and comics of something called Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is daunting task but it's his job and the fact that these characters and their story have had a thirty year nostalgia grip on the public is because there was something there - find it. Don't just rely on the gimmicks like pizza and surfer slang.

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

I am not going to get into what they are, I feel embarrassed. But not for myself.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by ScrewtheMirageTMNT

I am not going to get into what they are, I feel embarrassed. But not for myself.

So nothing then?

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

Originally Posted by Galactus

So nothing then?

The fact that you and bry need someone to point out what they are is painful to me. That is why I feel embarrassed and would rather not mention them.

[Xiewin]

Originally Posted by Galactus

Well they're not going to come out and say that the movie was a mess really.

Even so I feel some sympathy that even while saying he feels to be the "right" thing in what fans want to hear he can't help saying the "wrong" thing. That interview seems to a be a good example - there has often been a debate whether the movies should follow Mirage or Fred Wolf and almost always fans of the latter argue that Bebop & Rocksteady could work in a modern context if they were more akin to the first season snarling beasts but it seems Leibesman feels he later season bunglers is what fans want.

Strangely I think Bebop and Rocksteady could work well in the Michael Bay style if like the first season of the show however it makes you think how they'd contrast with the hulk-like turtles.

I'm not sure Kevin Eastman's artwork should really be an inspiration for the designs. Stuff like the Next Mutation designs and the like aren't what fans or anyone wants to see. I love Bodycount but in the same way as I love All Star Batman and Robin.

I hope he is sincere in looking at other characters but really look. Not just still images but root out what's good and why it's considered good. Simply putting a character like Karai and have her doing nothing is not fanservice or conducive to making a good movie for anyone. I realize plowing through cartoons and comics of something called Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is daunting task but it's his job and the fact that these characters and their story have had a thirty year nostalgia grip on the public is because there was something there - find it. Don't just rely on the gimmicks like pizza and surfer slang.

If Liebesman does return, I really hope that he and the other producers listen to criticism surrounding the first film. I'm pretty worried that they might come out with a pretty messy story again because they know people will still see it regardless. I have a feeling that they probably won't even care enough to improve anything, as long as this movie makes money they'll keep using the same formula over and over again (Though I hope they prove me wrong), similar to the Transformer movies. PD has a history of taking classic stories of horror films from the 80's and creating these bland shamless knockoffs with a little homage to the original. They haven't really improved at all over the years, so it's a bit hard for me to believe that they would try to the make this sequel anymore better than the first. I can't think of one movie that I liked from this company.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by ScrewtheMirageTMNT

The fact that you and bry need someone to point out what they are is painful to me. That is why I feel embarrassed and would rather not mention them.

Indulge us. Maybe we need to have these themes and messages pointed out to us to appreciate the movie.

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

Originally Posted by Galactus

Indulge us. Maybe we need to have these themes and messages pointed out to us to appreciate the movie.

If you guys want to know then I will have to know what your definition of message and theme is. First.