Official Episode Discussion S2 Finale: The Invasion

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by JTH

So when did The Kraang attack NYC, I don't seem to remember reading that in the news last year...

I WANT FACTS!
I WANTS DATES!
I WANT ANSWERS CUBED!!!

Wouldn't the government try to cover it up or something? Not saying one did happen, but the US government would end up trying to keep such a thing under wraps and explaining it away because of the major poo storm that would occur internationally. Not only that, but there would be mass rioting and other things, because people would be scared and irrational and it would be a threat to national stability and security.

About Kirby's 'hippy days,' Kirby would be in his 60s. He would have had April in his 40s, which isn't necessarily unusual.

[drgon78]

It would be really hard to cover up that New York is under alien control but I am sure they will still try.

[Donatello19]

This...this was the one of the best things to come out of TMNT as a franchise in years. This episode was a masterpiece. I don't think they'll ever be able to top this.

[JTH]

Originally Posted by drgon78

It would be really hard to cover up that New York is under alien control but I am sure they will still try.

What sickens me more is those other 200 superheroes in the New York area didn't even raise a finger to help our turtles during the alien invasion of NYC.

Hmm...must have had better things to do I guess...

[The Big Bad]

Well, this wasn't bad. It wasn't mindblowing, but that's mostly because it's coming at the heels of a largely mediocre season, which makes many of the beats here feel unearned. And while the show is getting much better at doing big set pieces--this finale could simply not have been done with season one's assets--even at its best, plenty feels sloppy. The series tries to sell us on a city-wide invasion, and yet the Leonardo vs. Foot scenes feature no signs of the Kraang. The E.P.F. are introduced, and then proceed to disappear from the plot, almost as if they had no purpose beyond being a nod. Kirby is having panic attacks, and yet has time to crack wise before getting mutated yet again so that he can be conveniently forgotten yet again. As soon as the Irma contrivance twist occurs, she is completely forgotten. The Kraang are a threat not because that's consistent with prior characterization, but because the show needs them to be a threat.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

EPF = Bishop? Why would it have the same exact name when it could have been any other government agents?

Why not?

Honestly, I'm not sure what to make of the appearance, as something that should have been important to the plot amounted to little more than a cameo. In the end, I'm kinda hoping that we don't see Bishop--I simply don't see him fitting in here. After all, the Kraang are hardly the smartest villains around, and we're already being shown that the E.P.F. as being rather useless against them. I don't think the show could write a villain that is actually smart.

Originally Posted by JTH

Many don't know this, but there are actually two Northampton's in New York, the one that has always been used in the Ninja Turtle Universe is in Fulton County *Seen in the blue location on the map below*. It's directly upstate of the NYC area.

https://www.health.ny.gov/statistics...ty_610x442.png

Here's the official wiki page on this Northampton for those interested.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northam...unty,_New_York

The Northampton referred to in the Mirage comics and 4Kids toon was always the one in Massachusetts. The one from the first film might have been the New York one, but then again, I'm not sure if the farmhouse there had any specific location other than "not Manhattan".

Originally Posted by Shark_Blade

- I like that Casey has no family baggage to carry to the outer city farm. April too, even the turtles. Only themselves as teenagers with no adult guiding them in the wild...

I was expecting this as soon as Casey mentioned picking his family up, but I was still disappointed to see it happen. I am tired of April and Casey's invisible relatives. Also, is this the first time we've heard that Casey's mom isn't in the picture? That's tiring too.

Originally Posted by neatoman

I'm a little more baffled at the logic here, so if the Kraang have been trying take over Earth since the dawn of mankind (and keep in mind, they're from a dimension where one year is an undefined number of decades, so it's even longer for them than us) why haven't they come close to conquer it until now?

The writers have never been consistent when it comes to the Kraang, and every detail about them has been contradicted at some point or another. Remember when they said that the problem with the mutagen was that it didn't work on Earth? The writers don't, as last episode had them somehow perfecting it while on Dimension X. Remember when April was an essential part of the entire process? Not so much, it turns out. The question you ask is an obvious one, and yet the show can't answer it, because the writers don't care.

[CyberCubed]

I don't know if this show can pull off Bishop, but if they can I will love them forever.

[drgon78]

Yeah what is up with those so called heroes.

[tmnt transformer]

Originally Posted by JTH

What sickens me more is those other 200 superheroes in the New York area didn't even raise a finger to help our turtles during the alien invasion of NYC.

Hmm...must have had better things to do I guess...

Maybe They're playing golf with the President....

[MaximeLoonatic]

The episode was so dramatic and EPIC!
The moment between the brothers, the battles... Splinter was so badass and amazing!! I hope he get better soon and found his sons.
There's just one single rant about the episode: irma a Kraang robot?! REALLY?!

Ciro, if you're reading this, we beg ya, undo it!! Make Irma real!

[Gunpowder]

Am I the only one who thought Shredder looked a bit grieved after throwing Splinter into the water and walking away? I think there's a chance we'll see some character development on his part.

[blindturtle02]

Originally Posted by Metalwolf

Wouldn't the government try to cover it up or something? Not saying one did happen, but the US government would end up trying to keep such a thing under wraps and explaining it away because of the major poo storm that would occur internationally. Not only that, but there would be mass rioting and other things, because people would be scared and irrational and it would be a threat to national stability and security.

About Kirby's 'hippy days,' Kirby would be in his 60s. He would have had April in his 40s, which isn't necessarily unusual.

Hippie Kirby... Yeah he's gonna need to be heavily medicated one way or another if they keep mutating him into all sorts of things. Poor guy! I wonder if these Kraang mutants keep their intelligence. Someone needs to hook them up with translators.

You mentioned the government covering stuff up, Wolf. I'm wondering if Kurtzman is going to join Earth Protection Force if he's not a part of it already.

[MrTMNT2012]

Originally Posted by The Big Bad

Well, this wasn't bad. It wasn't mindblowing, but that's mostly because it's coming at the heels of a largely mediocre season, which makes many of the beats here feel unearned. And while the show is getting much better at doing big set pieces--this finale could simply not have been done with season one's assets--even at its best, plenty feels sloppy. The series tries to sell us on a city-wide invasion, and yet the Leonardo vs. Foot scenes feature no signs of the Kraang. The E.P.F. are introduced, and then proceed to disappear from the plot, almost as if they had no purpose beyond being a nod. Kirby is having panic attacks, and yet has time to crack wise before getting mutated yet again so that he can be conveniently forgotten yet again. As soon as the Irma contrivance twist occurs, she is completely forgotten. The Kraang are a threat not because that's consistent with prior characterization, but because the show needs them to be a threat.



Why not?

Honestly, I'm not sure what to make of the appearance, as something that should have been important to the plot amounted to little more than a cameo. In the end, I'm kinda hoping that we don't see Bishop--I simply don't see him fitting in here. After all, the Kraang are hardly the smartest villains around, and we're already being shown that the E.P.F. as being rather useless against them. I don't think the show could write a villain that is actually smart.



The Northampton referred to in the Mirage comics and 4Kids toon was always the one in Massachusetts. The one from the first film might have been the New York one, but then again, I'm not sure if the farmhouse there had any specific location other than "not Manhattan".

I was expecting this as soon as Casey mentioned picking his family up, but I was still disappointed to see it happen. I am tired of April and Casey's invisible relatives. Also, is this the first time we've heard that Casey's mom isn't in the picture? That's tiring too.

The writers have never been consistent when it comes to the Kraang, and every detail about them has been contradicted at some point or another. Remember when they said that the problem with the mutagen was that it didn't work on Earth? The writers don't, as last episode had them somehow perfecting it while on Dimension X. Remember when April was an essential part of the entire process? Not so much, it turns out. The question you ask is an obvious one, and yet the show can't answer it, because the writers don't care.

It's sad that you were completely oblivious to everything good that happened this season as celebrated by this incredible finale and thus resorted to pure nitpicking.

Half of your points don't even make sense which is bad seeing how you're part of an invisible minority that desperately needs to give out constructive criticism for the show writers. I'm part of this minority as I don't feel Brandon Auman has been giving it his best and doesn't even hold a candle to Joshua Hamilton when it comes to writing in Cartoons!

There is a huge pacing issue and lack of psychological character development in the 2nd season which leads to many huge events (such as Karai's Vendetta) feeling insignificant. The comedy was resorted to toilet humour a lot of times and there were some cringe-worthy dialogue and casting decisions. The overall story needed more focusing and build-up, while fillers were needed to develop established minor characters instead of new ones like that forgettable ghost villain ripped off of that one cheesy 80's flick no one remembers!

But above all that, the Season 2 Finale managed to improve and deliver to gargantuan proportions with some of the show's most ingenious writing since Season 1. The character dilemmas were fully realised and recognisable, Leo & Don's clash of ideologies makes perfect sense and creates new pathways where their character arcs can go in Season 3 (which is more than I can say for the other episodes in Season 2). Raph and Mike shared a genuine reconciliation and worked to balance each other's feelings which showed more depth in both of them. Also, every character was given important tasks to do and there were real consequences to their actions, which is something Season 1 lacked. Even Shredder got humanising development traits where he truly cherishes his student like Splinter does the Turtles. It's these interesting dynamics that lead to the events in the finale (like Splinter Vs. Shredder) feeling more grounded and personal, thus more satisfying.

In my opinion, not only was this the best episode of the Season by far but the best episode in the entire series!

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by The Big Bad

I was expecting this as soon as Casey mentioned picking his family up, but I was still disappointed to see it happen. I am tired of April and Casey's invisible relatives. Also, is this the first time we've heard that Casey's mom isn't in the picture? That's tiring too.

It feel very unrealistic. It could be the case that we're not suppose care about the parents and relatives but in this case it feels very unsettling.

Originally Posted by The Big Bad

The writers have never been consistent when it comes to the Kraang, and every detail about them has been contradicted at some point or another. Remember when they said that the problem with the mutagen was that it didn't work on Earth? The writers don't, as last episode had them somehow perfecting it while on Dimension X. Remember when April was an essential part of the entire process? Not so much, it turns out. The question you ask is an obvious one, and yet the show can't answer it, because the writers don't care.

I remember saying exactly how I would probably have to create a half ass reason why Kirby is a mutant again. Who would have guess that the show would do that for me..HA HA..heh..heh.


But in all seriousness, this season was honestly all over the place. It was like it didn't know what it wanted to be but I'm hoping that since there is a setup for the next season, the show will have some consistency.

[CyberCubed]

I'm not even sure what Shredder is going to do now that the Kraang took over NYC.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I'm not even sure what Shredder is going to do now that the Kraang took over NYC.

Maybe he'll bring the big guns? Anybody up for a City at War arc?

[victory_angel]

So the Turtles, April, and Casey are for all intents and purposes orphans at this time. But as long as they had each other they should be able to come back stronger then ever.

But early on in the argument, Donnie says "If I were leader..." And Leo cuts him off by saying "Well your not leader, Donnie! I am!"

Does anyone have any guesses as to what Donnie would have done?

My guess is he would have said "I would have listened to what my followers had to tell me and then decide on the best course of action."

The entire argument both sides were valid. But Leo was insisting that his idea was the only course of action without considering Donnie's offering. And instead gave valid arguments about how the Turtle mech would not be helpful. Don't get me wrong I am aware that Donnie was doing the same thing by insisting the Turtle Mech was their only option. Siting that there wasn't enough time to create a second base when the invasion may very well be on their door step.

If the situation wasn't so stressful, perhaps they could have realized that they combined ideas. With the whole Donnie blaming himself from the moment Leo separates himself from the group. Ironically Donnie could have agreed with the second base idea and that separation would still have played out exactly the same way with Leo being ushered into a trap.

If you notice, no one appoints Donnie leader nor does anyone volunteer. Everyone just naturally turns to Donnie as the only level headed person in their present group. And it's shown that he listens to all the people under his care before making a decision on something.

[Megchan]

Originally Posted by neatoman

I'm a little more baffled at the logic here, so if the Kraang have been trying take over Earth since the dawn of mankind (and keep in mind, they're from a dimension where one year is an undefined number of decades, so it's even longer for them than us) why haven't they come close to conquer it until now?

Granted they are presented as being rather stupid seeing how many of their plans don't really make sense or are even done in a very effective manner. Having your leader run around, randomly shooting mutagen with a gun is hardly the optimal way for spreading it across the planet.

Because the Kraang needed the perfect string of DNA to perfect the mutagen.

[Rooish]

Wow. Geez. That was freaking awesome. I am a huge Mike/Raph and character development fan so this episode was like Christmas to me. Also a Karai fan. And a Leatherhead fan. The action was also amazing.

I do, however, agree with MrTMNT2012 and The Big Bad's criticism of this season as a whole. This episode felt almost like a different show to me. If only the writers try to maintain this quality, that would be great. I generally like Northampton arcs, but that's because they're usually character driven. If the show keeps that up we're good.

Kirby is a total spaz. Frustrating that he's mutated again. Also I am very pissed off that Irma is just a Kraang. She was a really good addition to the show.

Also I know its a kid's show but it seems like Leo, Leatherhead and Splinter should have been impaled, and were not. Shredder has those blades for a reason!

[JTH]

I'm willing to let the Kirby mutation slide because the whole city got mutated, so it doesn't make him look like the lone pitied fool in the show.

And I don't think anyone really thought that Kirby was going to be with them in Northampton.

[CyberCubed]

I wonder if they'll get a new lair since the Kraang know where they live now. Probably someplace else in the sewers when they return.