Official Ep Discussion: S3 Ep1: "Within the Woods"

[Ninjinister]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Uh, I'm pretty sure the people that hated or just didn't care for A Chinatown Ghost Story had nothing to do with rehashed storylines, but more with the 3 of the Turtles being mind controlled (again, it tends to happen alot in this show) and the whole Donnie/Casey/April thing.

Not according to the ACGS topic on the board here....

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by zantha

I felt I should add my point of view on the Donnie being more worried about April and Casey being alone than his brother. I admit that that is part of it, but a larger part of it is that it dose not make good sense logical to have them in a team together in this situation.

out of the four that are going into the woods, the ones that are calmer more level-headed, are Donnie and April. Mikey and Casey are more go with the flow. so it dose make sense in a way to put then in these times. however the turtles are better fighters and can handle themselves better than Casey and April. so it makes more sense to have a turtle in each time. then going by personality it make sense for April to go with Mikey and Casey to go with Donnie. that way you have two balanced teams. Donnie in part I think was thinking of this. being the most logical turtle.

Leo is not wholly wrong however he must know that Casey and Donnie on a team may not be a good idea, and as the psychically stronger ones Donnie and Casey should be on different times. it was always going to be a compromise. I think he also didn't not like the idea of all three of his brother's being away from each other and wanted to keep at least two together.

in away they are both right, as with the invasion. Donnie just dose not express his reason in a clear way and Leo does not listen to input form others very much. I don't know if this is going to be a theme for them, if so I am interested in how it will work out.

I also noticed that when Raph is told that Donnie stayed up all night to save his life, he does not give much of an reaction. that could be due to not knowing how to process such a big piece of information, also not liking having to be saved by his younger brother. when he feels that he should be the one to protect them. however he shows more of a reaction to Leo staying with him, form what we know doing nothing to help. this of course could be due to him having spent 3 months worrying about him.

this made me realise that Donnie dose not get much respect for all that he does. he is not listen to when he had a valid point at times too. I looked over it and none of Donnie's invention have ever once he is finished with them gone wrong because of his work. outside factors effect them yes, spy roach falling in the mutagen and metalhead being taken over by the kraang. there is no need for there to be such scepticism form Leo over Donnie's inventions. maybe it is me hoping for development that wont come, but I would like to see Donnie react to this.

it is always stated and pointed out how much pressure Leo has to deal with. it is never stated or explored how much pressure Donnie is under. without him in this episode Raph would have and Leo may not have recovered. being the one to take care of your brothers after a fight is just as much pressure are getting them through a fight. not to mention being the one responsible for their transport and communications. that is just hid team, he is also now the one that is going to be mainly responsible for turning those mutated in new York back to normal. kaira is a great example of his, Leo made her a issue for the team, but in the end Donnie is the one that will have to deal with it. I would just like to see this addressed.

I think you are just over annalyzing it a bit. I do agree, Leo should have positioned a Turtle with a human due to the Turtles more skilled in fighting and defending, but I disagree that Casey and Donnie are the stronger ones out of the four. I'm pretty sure Donnie and Mikey are way stronger and more skilled than April and Casey combined, and both Donnie and Mikey are about equal in their abilities to fight. Now, due to intelligence issues, I would have simply teamed up Mikey with April (we seriously need some April bonding with one of the other Turtles that isn't Donnie and she and Mikey get along pretty well) and Donnie and Casey can work well together when April isn't around.

I however, am going to be part of the camp that is going to pretend the Raph getting his mutagen taken out and put back in never existed. It was just such a stupid, idiotic plot line that didn't make a lick of sense. Either way, this notion that Donnie isn't appreciated by his brothers is false. They all loved the ShellRazor. And his inventions have gone wrong, like the go cart thing. But the whole Leo and Donnie strife was just so the writers could mix it up a bit since it's usually Raph and Leo that fight. After seeing it play out, now I know why Laird and Eastman never went down that road, it just seems so, forced.

Originally Posted by Ninjinister

Not according to the ACGS topic on the board here....

Actually, it's pretty much the reason why people here didn't like the episode. The whole Casey/April/Donnie thing! Go look for yourself if you don't believe me. Please link me to posts that actually say people didn't like the episode because it was based on Big Trouble in Little China! Good luck in finding it. I personally didn't like it because it was another 3 Turtles getting mind controlled and another fu#$%^&*cking Donnie centric episode that in all just wasn't very exciting. It was boring in fact for me.

Heck, I'll even give you the link to the page so you can start surfing through it. http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=49266 Like I said, good luck with finding people who are quoted saying they didn't like the episode because it was based on BTILC.

[neatoman]

Grmmrrhrmm... The Donnie/April/Casey thing? Are we still on about that? Seriously, there's no way anyone hasn't figured out that Donnie isn't getting the girl in this scenario.

Nobody in the show thinks he has a chance.
He's just creepy about her.
Casey and April are written with some chemistry, while Donnie and April is only played for laughs.
And finally, name a single incarnation where Casey did not end up with April (aside from the ones where he's not a major character of course).

[zantha]

I agree that I am over thinking it. I always say Mikey as being faster then stronger. that was what I meant, I think Casey could simple lift heaver weights than Mikey, but Mikey is a far stronger fighter.

the patrol buggies worked fine the second time they were used. there was a problem the first time, because they were not finished, as he said. I said once they are finished and he is ready to use them they work as they are meant to.

I like the Leo/ Donnie conflict it makes sense to me. they both have strong ideas about things and they are the ones that have the most pressure placed on them, it make sense to me at least that they would butt heads a little. Raph and Mikey are more natural, they are at there best when they go off their instincts. therefore adding things that set in the way of that makes them lose their best qualities. by contract Donnie and Leo ate the strategist's how are at their best when planning and organising.

maybe I am being biases, but I always felt he deals with as much pressure as Leo, and gets little help with it and it doesn't get addressed. again that is just me.

[THGhost]

Originally Posted by Ninjinister

Ice Cream Kitty's a female

Are they though? Because they're voiced by Kevin Eastman.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Grmmrrhrmm... The Donnie/April/Casey thing? Are we still on about that? Seriously, there's no way anyone hasn't figured out that Donnie isn't getting the girl in this scenario.

And finally, name a single incarnation where Casey did not end up with April (aside from the ones where he's not a major character of course).

As for point 1, the leaked storyboards make it clear that nothing is clear. He's got just as much of a chance to win her heart as he does to get shut down.

Casey, well, he's only actively been in 2 universes (Movie(s) & 4kids) outside of the Nick series, & both are based on Mirage, so it's not really fair to say they're universally paired together when one version is the inspiration for all. They're not a thing in the OT, though his inclusion there is minor.

It could go either way.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by zantha

I agree that I am over thinking it. I always say Mikey as being faster then stronger. that was what I meant, I think Casey could simple lift heaver weights than Mikey, but Mikey is a far stronger fighter.

No matter how you slice and dice it, I still say that the Turtles are better than Olympic athletes, whereas Casey is not even a state level champion.

the patrol buggies worked fine the second time they were used. there was a problem the first time, because they were not finished, as he said. I said once they are finished and he is ready to use them they work as they are meant to.

And I'm pretty sure there have been instances when things didn't go so great because of his inventions or messing with stuff (like the time he almost blew up the lair in Slash and Destroy)

I like the Leo/ Donnie conflict it makes sense to me. they both have strong ideas about things and they are the ones that have the most pressure placed on them, it make sense to me at least that they would butt heads a little. Raph and Mikey are more natural, they are at there best when they go off their instincts. therefore adding things that set in the way of that makes them lose their best qualities. by contract Donnie and Leo ate the strategist's how are at their best when planning and organising.

See, it doesn't make sense for me, because of the personalities. Donnie is passive whereas Raph and Leo are the aggressors. Aggressors have a far chance of butting heads than a passive personality. Or even when a passive aggressor is very unlikely to go up against an pure aggressor within the team. It's probably why Donnie don't interract much with Raph at all, because of the personality conflicts.

maybe I am being biases, but I always felt he deals with as much pressure as Leo, and gets little help with it and it doesn't get addressed. again that is just me.

It's hard to tell with these things. In the end, we have to just see it for what it is, a cartoon meant for kids.

[zantha]

I think it could go ether way, one thing puts me off one ship though.

he KICKED her.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by zantha

I think it could go ether way, one thing puts me off one ship though.

he KICKED her.

In a life or death situation where you had your hands tied & but one way to quietly wake your friend, you would too.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by THGhost

Are they though? Because they're voiced by Kevin Eastman.

Hey hey now, Bart Simpson is supposed to be a boy, but voiced by a girl!

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Powder

As for point 1, the leaked storyboards make it clear that nothing is clear. He's got just as much of a chance to win her heart as he does to get shut down.

Casey, well, he's only actively been in 2 universes (Movie(s) & 4kids) outside of the Nick series, & both are based on Mirage, so it's not really fair to say they're universally paired together when one version is the inspiration for all. They're not a thing in the OT, though his inclusion there is minor.

It could go either way.

Are those leaks even confirmed to be real? And what about the IDW comics? They were even outright stated to be together in the latest issue.

As for the Fred Wolf cartoon, that show so afraid of changing the status quo for the first seven seasons, the only thing that was intentionally changed from season to season was the location of the Technodrome. Of course it never depicted April with a boyfriend (that I'm aware of at least), that break the status quo.

[zantha]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

No matter how you slice and dice it, I still say that the Turtles are better than Olympic athletes, whereas Casey is not even a state level champion. :

that is true.

Originally Posted by Warhorse

And I'm pretty sure there have been instances when things didn't go so great because of his inventions or messing with stuff (like the time he almost blew up the lair in Slash and Destroy):

again that is true, but I said once he is fully finished with an invasion or experiment. then nothing goes wrong. before that it is trial and error.

Originally Posted by Warhorse

See, it doesn't make sense for me, because of the personalities. Donnie is passive whereas Raph and Leo are the aggressors. Aggressors have a far chance of butting heads than a passive personality. Or even when a passive aggressor is very unlikely to go up against an pure aggressor within the team. It's probably why Donnie don't interract much with Raph at all, because of the personality conflicts. :

true, but it was in a interview with one of a writer for the IDW comic about their conflict there. he said that Leo is the alpha male it terms of being the top athletic type of guy and Donnie in turn is the alpha male in terms of his intelligence. it is natural for alpha males to come into conflict. of course Raph is that in the IDW comic so that is a factor, but I still a point to this.

here is a link to the interview. I am not truly to change your view at all, I am just trying to explain mine. the dissuasion happens around 10.30 with the question but the answer is around 10.45


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kkj-...fO6_IiIWtHSufg

Originally Posted by Warhorse

It's hard to tell with these things. In the end, we have to just see it for what it is, a cartoon meant for kids.

too true. with what they did in the final I am a little hopeful they can be more in depth stuff.

[zantha]

Originally Posted by Powder

In a life or death situation where you had your hands tied & but one way to quietly wake your friend, you would too.

I was kind of joking. sorry.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by zantha

true, but it was in a interview with one of a writer for the IDW comic about their conflict there. he said that Leo is the alpha male it terms of being the top athletic type of guy and Donnie in turn is the alpha male in terms of his intelligence. it is natural for alpha males to come into conflict. of course Raph is that in the IDW comic so that is a factor, but I still a point to this.
.

You know, when talking about the Raph/Leo thing with people who aren't fans, somone told me that there was a similar thing going on in his own family. He had his older son and two younger daughters. He admitted fawning and spoiling the crap out of his oldest son, and while doing that, the two younger daughters had to work twice as hard to get his affection. In the end, they are now the kids who are going to Harvard and MIT on full scholarships, while the son actually became a problem and dropped out of school. This makes me wonder, if it would make more sense to have Raphael be the oldest of the group, expecting to be the leader and favorite and all of that crap, but it was Leo and Donnie who were the ones who worked so hard to get where they are, and in the end, Splinter has rewarded them as such. I don't know why, but your post kind of had me reflecting back on that thought.

[zantha]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

You know, when talking about the Raph/Leo thing with people who aren't fans, somone told me that there was a similar thing going on in his own family. He had his older son and two younger daughters. He admitted fawning and spoiling the crap out of his oldest son, and while doing that, the two younger daughters had to work twice as hard to get his affection. In the end, they are now the kids who are going to Harvard and MIT on full scholarships, while the son actually became a problem and dropped out of school. This makes me wonder, if it would make more sense to have Raphael be the oldest of the group, expecting to be the leader and favorite and all of that crap, but it was Leo and Donnie who were the ones who worked so hard to get where they are, and in the end, Splinter has rewarded them as such. I don't know why, but your post kind of had me reflecting back on that thought.

I have always seen Raph and Donnie as being clear examples of middle children. Raph being the kind that is equal in may ways to their older sibling, expect for being younger thus aims to get attention however they can. Donnie the forgotten middle sibling (Lisa Simpson) who tries to bets their older sibling intellectually. like in your example.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by zantha

I have always seen Raph and Donnie as being clear examples of middle children. Raph being the kind that is equal in may ways to their older sibling, expect for being younger thus aims to get attention however they can. Donnie the forgotten middle sibling (Lisa Simpson) who tries to bets their older sibling intellectually. like in your example.

Maybe, but the whole thing with Raph always challenging Leo for leadership just makes me feel that he was actually the oldest. But then again, Raph just might be one of those who simply doesn't like being told what to do.

How did you like the episode, Metalhead, where Donnie was expecting Splinter to not let him build his own weapon and try it out, and in the end, Splinter was actually OK with it, surprising Donnie?

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Maybe, but the whole thing with Raph always challenging Leo for leadership just makes me feel that he was actually the oldest. But then again, Raph just might be one of those who simply doesn't like being told what to do.

How did you like the episode, Metalhead, where Donnie was expecting Splinter to not let him build his own weapon and try it out, and in the end, Splinter was actually OK with it, surprising Donnie?

I also had the impression that Raph was the oldest but I like think that they, themselves don't know who is the oldest and that the reason why they fight so much about it.

[Coola Yagami]

Just saw the episode. I realized near the end with the Mutagen transfusion that this the Creep was basically a censored version of Bloodsucker.

[Shark_Blade]

I love Donnie's comment about how 2 teenagers going into the woods at night. They gonna bang lol.

Love the horror cinematics and visuals. I think this might top Invasion of Squirrelanoids for me. Leo's new voice is a bit odd though but we'll see..

A very great season opener, well done Ciro and team!

[zantha]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

How did you like the episode, Metalhead, where Donnie was expecting Splinter to not let him build his own weapon and try it out, and in the end, Splinter was actually OK with it, surprising Donnie?

Its a good episode that deals with something I always wondered about, if they choice their weapons or Splinter choice for them. in this version I think it was a little bit of both.

the part that you mentioned highlights, I think any way my point about him not getting much respect. (he does get some, and I get every time he comes up with something you cant stop and praise it.) Donnie was so convinced that Splinter would not have enough faith in his inventions to let him make his own weapon. showing that he is not used that being given kind of opportunity.