Official Episode Discussion S2 Finale: The Invasion

[Refractive Reflections]

With my adjusted lowered expectations for this show, the show did fairly well. The fighting scenes were superficially dramatic and enjoyable, but it fell on cliches by inserting either past TMNT events (Leonardo's confrontation with the Foot-bots with a similar Mirage scene), transforming human characters again (Kirby mutated again and with Irma actually being Krang Sub-Prime), and having a bigger, augmented Kraang battle. ...And it continued its irritating habit of plotline amnesia as I've mentioned before in another thread:

Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections

For me, what's the most frustrating with the big reveal is that in the beginning and middle of Season 2 (and even throughout Season 1 upon hindsight), April was touted as being the most crucial part of the Kraangs' plan and how they wanted to constantly kidnap her, but upon hindsight after watching the Season 2 finale, Krang Sub-Prime could have easily kidnapped April at around the time of "A Chinatown Ghost Story" episode when it was strongly hinted Irma was something other than human. (Even if we go with the notion that "human Irma" was somehow swapped before that episode.) It makes the reveal of Krang Sub-Prime wanting to know the Turtles' lair in first place (rather than the Kraang initially focusing on April, which was more important for one and a half seasons), seem more or less shoehorned, just to introduce the whole Southampton arc for Season 3. Ugh... again another example of plotline amnesia. It's why I can't emotionally invest in this series or care about most suspense scenes anymore, because 6-10 episodes later, more often the plotline will be ignored or contradict itself in a later development upon hindsight.

Here's a few events that caught my attention:
-I have to say it would have been far more entertaining if Shredder actually kept Leonardo as a hostage and used as a bargaining chip (what I thought he would have done after taunting Splinter about taking another child of his) when confronting the Turtles and Splinter, to add dramatic parallels, but... it decidedly used this opportunity to revisiting another past TMNT scene, just to see Leonardo crash through the window. **sigh**

-I am glad that at least this episode took some time to have brief reflective moments when April envisioned past events when she had to leave the lair, and the Turtles each taking a momento. It at least brought some emotional gravity to the situation they were facing rather than always seeing them in a crisis.

-The whole Shredder involvement seemed forced and unnecessary though in comparison to the grand scheme of events. The whole Leatherhead and Shredder fight at the end was melodramatic though , there's no way any mere mortal man could have enough strength to kick Leatherhead down and that far when the show displayed how strong and enormous Leatherhead is.

The developments were fast, climatic, and entertaining, but with the plot amnesia undermining its former suspenseful developments and lack of having its characters progress in any particular direction (excluding Karai), it makes the impact these characters endure in this Season 2 finale immensely hollow. To me, "Vengeance Is Mine" was a far better written episode than this Season 2 finale because one could feel Splinter's loss with Karai at a deeper level after watching and reflecting back on the episode of "The Wrath of Tiger Claw". In this Season 2 finale, Leonardo's fight at the construction yard was not as impactful (as with the plight of the other characters) because it did not draw upon his cumulative experiences unlike the Karai mutation which drew upon the history between Splinter and Karai. Yes the action and fighting was exciting in "The Invasion", but with such a lack of investment into most of the characters, and complacency for its storywriting, it has made me more indifferent than ever to the Nick Turtles' plight.

[NoName999]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Maybe Kirby has bad luck, but then why did he have this sinister glare in his eye?

http://i.imgur.com/XO4Xsq0.png

He could simply be mad at the moment. That's what usually happens when people are super upset and freaking out.

[BubblyShell22]

No, I don't think he'd go from stressed out to sinister glare that fast. There's more to Kirby O'Neil than meets the eye.

[snake]

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

No, I don't think he'd go from stressed out to sinister glare that fast. There's more to Kirby O'Neil than meets the eye.

I have a feeling he isn't human as well.

[BubblyShell22]

Either that or he was and they switched him out like they did with Irma. That could definitely be a possibility.

[sdp]

I found the season 2 finale pretty bad. It was just boring with little redeeming values.

Random thoughts:
Irma being a Kraang? How stupid was that. Was that Kraang supposed to be Ch'rell? Leo's voice is the same as the previous episodes? Because he sounded pretty bad here. The Kraang prime giant robot is so generic and boring. While the original toons Krang Android Body was silly looking and wouldn't really fit the current cartoons at least it was unique. Similar to the boring re-design of the Technodrome in Turtles Forever. The ending scene was pretty good actually. I also liked the Earth Defense Force being in the show, hopefully we see Agent Bishop in S3.

[GoldenFlither]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNYBQ0O2Dh0

Basically what went through our heads at this scene.

[marcelangelo]

Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections

With my adjusted lowered expectations for this show, the show did fairly well. The fighting scenes were superficially dramatic and enjoyable, but it fell on cliches by inserting either past TMNT events (Leonardo's confrontation with the Foot-bots with a similar Mirage scene), transforming human characters again (Kirby mutated again and with Irma actually being Krang Sub-Prime), and having a bigger, augmented Kraang battle. ...And it continued its irritating habit of plotline amnesia as I've mentioned before in another thread:



Here's a few events that caught my attention:
-I have to say it would have been far more entertaining if Shredder actually kept Leonardo as a hostage and used as a bargaining chip (what I thought he would have done after taunting Splinter about taking another child of his) when confronting the Turtles and Splinter, to add dramatic parallels, but... it decidedly used this opportunity to revisiting another past TMNT scene, just to see Leonardo crash through the window. **sigh**

-I am glad that at least this episode took some time to have brief reflective moments when April envisioned past events when she had to leave the lair, and the Turtles each taking a momento. It at least brought some emotional gravity to the situation they were facing rather than always seeing them in a crisis.

-The whole Shredder involvement seemed forced and unnecessary though in comparison to the grand scheme of events. The whole Leatherhead and Shredder fight at the end was melodramatic though , there's no way any mere mortal man could have enough strength to kick Leatherhead down and that far when the show displayed how strong and enormous Leatherhead is.

The developments were fast, climatic, and entertaining, but with the plot amnesia undermining its former suspenseful developments and lack of having its characters progress in any particular direction (excluding Karai), it makes the impact these characters endure in this Season 2 finale immensely hollow. To me, "Vengeance Is Mine" was a far better written episode than this Season 2 finale because one could feel Splinter's loss with Karai at a deeper level after watching and reflecting back on the episode of "The Wrath of Tiger Claw". In this Season 2 finale, Leonardo's fight at the construction yard was not as impactful (as with the plight of the other characters) because it did not draw upon his cumulative experiences unlike the Karai mutation which drew upon the history between Splinter and Karai. Yes the action and fighting was exciting in "The Invasion", but with such a lack of investment into most of the characters, and complacency for its storywriting, it has made me more indifferent than ever to the Nick Turtles' plight.

very well put I must say.I m glad more people feel this way.I agree with your points here.
I hope the show runners do look back on all the episodes after they are done and really do their homework to improve this show which could have much potential actually..the hollow characters, the over repeativeness, the pointless constant easter egging(I mean we KNOW we are watching a turtles show and am happy that you doing it enjoy so much of the property as well, but there is no point in bringing in reference after reference in EXPENSE of the show itself..)I would say the leonardo one shot homage was likely a 'dream' to adapt for ciro who stated on some occasions that he is fond of this comic book.so I wont emphasize on that one instant but enough with the stereotypical EVIL ALIEN INVADERS already, no more over stupid michelangelo, stop the mind controlled characters story that appears in every third or fourth plot already and don't last so long on the turtles love life for gods sake.PLEASE....

[MrTMNT2012]

Originally Posted by sdp

I found the season 2 finale pretty bad.
Random thoughts:
Irma being a Kraang? How stupid was that.

Stupid enough that it fooled you and literally everyone else who watched it for the first time...

[Aaronardo]

Originally Posted by MrTMNT2012

Stupid enough that it fooled you and literally everyone else who watched it for the first time...

Not to mention that when you think about it (particularly looking at the events before the scene), it makes sense once you know about it, but it was subtle enough so thaf nobody saw it coming. Brilliant twist imo.

[JTH]

Originally Posted by That Collector Guy

Not to mention that when you think about it (particularly looking at the events before the scene), it makes sense once you know about it, but it was subtle enough so thaf nobody saw it coming. Brilliant twist imo.

Yeah, like remember in Of Rats and Men, when Irma "accidentally" turned on the turbine while "trying to open cage doors" and her giving a sarcastic "Oops."

Yeah, "Irma" was trying to kill somebody, and we didn't even pay it no mind.

[Ashwolf]

Originally Posted by JTH

Yeah, like remember in Of Rats and Men, when Irma "accidentally" turned on the turbine while "trying to open cage doors" and her giving a sarcastic "Oops."

Yeah, "Irma" was trying to kill somebody, and we didn't even pay it no mind.

makes ya wonder if she saw them lurking in the shadows and kept her mouth shut

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by That Collector Guy

Not to mention that when you think about it (particularly looking at the events before the scene), it makes sense once you know about it, but it was subtle enough so thaf nobody saw it coming. Brilliant twist imo.

Originally Posted by JTH

Yeah, like remember in Of Rats and Men, when Irma "accidentally" turned on the turbine while "trying to open cage doors" and her giving a sarcastic "Oops."

Yeah, "Irma" was trying to kill somebody, and we didn't even pay it no mind.

Riigggghhttt. Being subtle....

It's too bad this same "subtle" awareness wasn't there in realizing how many times "Irma" was alone with April (without the Turtles nearby), and how "Irma" could have easily kidnapped April (since the whole kidnapping plot was the main plot line for the Kraang in one and half seasons of this show); therefore accomplishing the Kraangs' mission in obtaining her, and could have perfected the mutagen much earlier than in the "Into Dimension X!" episode.

[Sumac]

Good episodes, though not perfect.
Certainly based on the same arc, which was used in the first movie and 2k3 series.

First, bad things.

I think the atmosphere of the city under enemy invasion has been channeled better in the S1 finale. In Invasion, city abruptly changed from being full of panicking people to completely clean and empty streets. It was jarring kind of. I loved the winter atmosphere, though.

I felt like the second part of the episode was rushed in a favor of the final battle against Kraang Prime. Splinter versus Shredder battle was to quick and, I think, writers have wasted a perfect ending spot for this season.

I mean, Turtles have just lost their father and mentor. It was quite an emotional moment and a perfect place to show heroes leaving the city. But instead there was this fight between Mech and Prime, which felt like a generic Turtles versus Kraang encounter from earlier episodes. It really felt underwhelming and quite muddled impression from the earlier events.

Good things:

Leonardo battle against Footbots and Foot flunkies was incredible. He was unquestionably, totally and radically one awesome Turtle!! But Shredder once again proved that he is dishonorable dog and yeah...I loved all this small momnets between April and Donnie - they were cute and made episode even better. I understand why she stopped Don from confessing his feelings for her.

I loved, when Leatherhead attacked Shredder. Reminded me about Zog vs Shredhead from 2k3 "Rogue in the House". Though, it was surprising that Shrdder was still capable of fighting after that. And of course Splinter vs Shredder fight...was awesome as always.

Irma being Kraang spy was an odd twist. Though I liked her character and I hope that maybe there is a real Irma outthere. Also, I wonder, is Subprime has gone for good...judging from his tattoos, scars and implants he is a one bad [censored].

Also, I hope Splinter will team up with Karai in S3. I don't want writers to use the old cliche, where character wakes up and doesn't who have saved him.

I give first part of episode 3 Turtles out of 3.
And second part receives 2 rats out of 3.

***************

As for this season as whole: there were more silly fillers, which were weaker than fillers in the Season1. But imporant episodes were much better, reaching almost 2k3 quality at times in temrs of character development, emotions and pacing.

Notable mentions goes for:
- Mikey, who has become less an idiot in the final part of S2.
- Don was adorable with his crush on April.
- Casey went from unlikable douche to the likable douche. I still not big fan of this incarnation, but he does not irritate me anymore as in his few fisrt appearances.
- Karai was awesome and its sad that she was dealt in such way. I hope she will join the Turtles after being restored to human form. It certainly will be a new twist in Turtle mythos.
- Shredder received some so needed backstory and personality, rather "angry idiot, who does stuff out of pathetic spite". Well he is still that, just a bit more dimensional. He is still fairly stupid and doesn't strike me as great and charismatic leader. Though his with his freakshow he could start a circus.
- Baxter's mutation was completely unncessary and his character lost everything that made him interesting (and there was not much in the first place).
- Rahzar and Fishface were demoted to two generic thugs.
- Tiger Claw is rather generic thug.
- most of the new one-off viallins were lame and only Kraang kept the mark and were consistently...the same as always. Personalityless, but entertaining.

So, overall, I'd say this season was better in presentation and better at executing important stories, but worse, when it comes to fillers and minor characters.

I hope Season 3 will be better in regard to the minor characters and give better fillers.

[BubblyShell22]

I think the reason the Kraang didn't want Irma to capture April is that they were biding their time and waiting for the right moment to strike. And remember in one of the episodes she was talking about gluten free pizza while one of the Kraang has mentioned being on a gluten free diet. Again, subtle references were there, but we never even thought about them until later. Good job on that, Nick.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

I think the reason the Kraang didn't want Irma to capture April is that they were biding their time and waiting for the right moment to strike. And remember in one of the episodes she was talking about gluten free pizza while one of the Kraang has mentioned being on a gluten free diet. Again, subtle references were there, but we never even thought about them until later. Good job on that, Nick.

Really?? Considering the extraordinary lengths the Kraang went in trying to obtain Nick April, and how integral she was to their plan (kidnapping her father, putting a mind-altering device on Kirby, creating the gene project for April's school, the robotic teacher in April's school, making a deal with Shredder to give April to them in the Season 1 finale, building Chrome Dome, the April clone rejects [i.e. April Derp], the backstory of the whole Kraang conspiracy, spending enormous amounts of time to perfect the mutagen, etc.) throughout the first two seasons with that being their main objective, it seems highly unlikely the Kraang would turn away the easy opportunity to accomplish their goal sooner.

"Waiting for the right moment to strike" just seems hollow because here was the opportunity to perfect the mutagen after thousands and thousands of years of struggling, experimentation of the mutagen, and putting so much effort into obtaining her, but yet they won't take advantage of this overtly easy opportunity in kidnapping April whenever she's alone and away from the Turtles? It kind of makes all of those past kidnapping attempts underwhelming then.

On a side note, the fact that the Kraang were able to perfect the mutagen without April in "Into Dimension X!", deflates thousands and thousands of years of the Kraang's struggle and their backstory since April was supposed to be the final, ultimate objective before their conquest of Earth. This development brushed aside a lot of her significance to the Kraang plot. It's unsatisfying in hindsight if one watches Season 1 and 2 now, because one now knows that the Kraang could easily wait a few more measly Earth years, despite their many millennia of the pursuit, to perfect their mutagen rather than going through all the unfruitful and tedious effort in trying to kidnap April.

Which episode(s) exactly were these gluten-free references made by the way?

[ernesth100]

Spoiler:

Kraang Prime also totally tentacled graped April.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections

Really?? Considering the extraordinary lengths the Kraang went in trying to obtain Nick April, and how integral she was to their plan (kidnapping her father, putting a mind-altering device on Kirby, creating the gene project for April's school, the robotic teacher in April's school, making a deal with Shredder to give April to them in the Season 1 finale, building Chrome Dome, the April clone rejects [i.e. April Derp], the backstory of the whole Kraang conspiracy, spending enormous amounts of time to perfect the mutagen, etc.) throughout the first two seasons with that being their main objective, it seems highly unlikely the Kraang would turn away the easy opportunity to accomplish their goal sooner.

"Waiting for the right moment to strike" just seems hollow because here was the opportunity to perfect the mutagen after thousands and thousands of years of struggling, experimentation of the mutagen, and putting so much effort into obtaining her, but yet they won't take advantage of this overtly easy opportunity in kidnapping April whenever she's alone and away from the Turtles? It kind of makes all of those past kidnapping attempts underwhelming then.

On a side note, the fact that the Kraang were able to perfect the mutagen without April in "Into Dimension X!", deflates thousands and thousands of years of the Kraang's struggle and their backstory since April was supposed to be the final, ultimate objective before their conquest of Earth. This development brushed aside a lot of her significance to the Kraang plot. It's unsatisfying in hindsight if one watches Season 1 and 2 now, because one now knows that the Kraang could easily wait a few more measly Earth years, despite their many millennia of the pursuit, to perfect their mutagen rather than going through all the unfruitful and tedious effort in trying to kidnap April.

Which episode(s) exactly were these gluten-free references made by the way?

This is why I kept theorizing on Irma being real. They could've gotten April way earlier if they had that kind of technology the whole time. The Kraang weren't working with Shredder yet, either when she first had that cameo and we learned that the two were friends.

She could've lured April super easily to the Kraang, they could've made a Kraangbot April, use there Kraangbot April to lure out the turtles, use the real April to perfect their mutagen, take over NY and the world, etc. Too many missed opportunities there.

Until it's fully confirmed or someone says so, I still have this feeling Irma is real, was switched out sometime after Of Rats and Men or maybe even after A Chinatown Ghost Story, and that the technology for such a perfect disguise was still new.

[Sumac]

"Waiting for the right moment to strike" just seems hollow because here was the opportunity to perfect the mutagen after thousands and thousands of years of struggling, experimentation of the mutagen, and putting so much effort into obtaining her, but yet they won't take advantage of this overtly easy opportunity in kidnapping April whenever she's alone and away from the Turtles? It kind of makes all of those past kidnapping attempts underwhelming then.

On a side note, the fact that the Kraang were able to perfect the mutagen without April in "Into Dimension X!", deflates thousands and thousands of years of the Kraang's struggle and their backstory since April was supposed to be the final, ultimate objective before their conquest of Earth. This development brushed aside a lot of her significance to the Kraang plot. It's unsatisfying in hindsight if one watches Season 1 and 2 now, because one now knows that the Kraang could easily wait a few more measly Earth years, despite their many millennia of the pursuit, to perfect their mutagen rather than going through all the unfruitful and tedious effort in trying to kidnap April.

From my understanding. Kraang were specifically breeding humans to receive perfect strain of DNA, which would allowed had them to perfect mutagen to "Kraangoform" Earth to their liking. And April is final result of their efforts.

Now, I think, they were able to perfect Mutagen because they had April captive before, has taken her DNA samples and, eventually, were able to recreate her DNA and with it - a perfect mutagen. Either that or nobody gave a **** about story (which, given, a lot of oddities in story arcs and forgotten aesops, is most likely the case, I believe).

Also, Kraang SubPrime (in case if Irma has always been a Kraang spy) could had acted separately from other Kraang units. Kraang believed they would have won either way and SubPrime was just their backup plan, just in case April will lead him to Turtles. Either that or writers just got rid of Irma for cheap shock value and to qucikly set things in motion, to not repeat Season 1 ending.

[BubblyShell22]

The gluten free diet reference was in "Karai's Vendetta" if I remember correctly. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me on that.