The Eusociality of Mutant Animals

[Luckyday]

It's fact that Kraang have been on earth for more then over a thousand (possibly even longer then that) years and when there are Kraang, there bound to be mutants. If this true, then no doubt there would already be a secret mutant society; hidden somewhere unknown and untouchable by humans.

Think of what a mutant society would look like. What unique problems would they face that are unheard or never would have happen among humans?

For example, a unique situation would for a interspecies mix mutant society would how everyone is able to get along, especially if most are a mixture of predator and prey. Their diet is mostly same as normal animals and the normal animals population would have decrease due to mutants overhunting them and the average size of the normals are sp much smaller then the mutant variety so there a huge temptation for a mutant lion to hunt down a mutant sheep. How would they decide who gets eat who? Someone has to be the sheep.

Another example would be Zoophobia or I guess their version of animal racism. With high tension and paranoia due to food scarcity. There would a **** ton of resentment and maybe even bad history between two competing species like lions and hyenas.
There would human resentment too but what are they going to do with their self made spears and arrows?

[victory_angel]

that would be a good reason to bring in H.A.V.O.K. Have a group of mutants who exists as themselves and treat themselves as a brotherhood (with female mutants included of course). And the Turtles are invited to join. They notice Slash, Rockwell, and Sir Malachi along with Spiderbites and Snakeweed in the group. Raph likes the place and wants to stay because he's among people who understand him.

Leo is uncomfortable about leaving Raph alone with them, Mikey likes the idea of having a brotherhood of mutants, but feels somethings off about the leader. Donnie doesn't join as willingly as he does in the OT, but like Leo and Mikey he feels something off so he wants to stay and try and see what they are really up to.

However it later turns out the the leader of H.A.V.O.K. is wanting to over run the world with mutants and make humans their slaves. Which Donnie discovers particularly when he notices that Razar and Tigerclaw appear showing that the leaders of H.A.V.O.K. have a lose affiliation with the Shedder.

Donnie sends a mass text to Leo, Mikey, Raph and April that H.A.V.O.K. is connected to Shredder before he is caught. Razar points that Donnie has been able to create Retromutagen in the past. Which the Leaders of H.A.V.O.K find interesting but also a threat to their organization, so they tell the guards to make sure Donatello is locked up until further notice.

[Luckyday]

[snake]

This seems way too smart for this show. Maybe not the season one writers though.

[IndigoErth]

But... but... why they so mutantist... the humans are mutants too. According to the Kraang.

I know, I know, humans ruin everything, that's why.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

But... but... why they so mutantist... the humans are mutants too. According to the Kraang.

I know, I know, humans ruin everything, that's why.

Well that may be true, it still wouldn't any difference. Mutants are a state of being, they're not one big race like Elves, Orcs and Humans who can all sire half-breeds amongst themselves. In the wild you don't see lions and other animals banding together to fight the man. Hell, we have problems with our kind and yet we're same freak'in species. What's our excuse? Other then religion and culture differences.

With different animals living next to each, there are the biology differences between them and would make it hard for them to relate to each other. It would be even worse, if other animal is part of their diet. The others might be intelligent and cultured society but screw it because a lion man has to eat something.

So a compromise has to be made and as **** up this might sound to some of you, the prey animals ( the ones that are same species) themselves have to draw a line in the sand on who is consider cattle/livestock and who is consider a civilian with rights.
And that is when true racism starts.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Luckyday

Well that may be true, it still wouldn't. Mutants are a state of being, they're not one big race like Elves, Orcs and Humans who can all sire half-breeds amongst themselves. In the wild you don't see lions and other animals banding together to fight the man. Hell, we have problems with our kind and yet we're same freak'in species. What's our excuse? Other then religion and culture differences.

With different animals living next to each, there are the biology differences between them and would make it hard for them to relate to each other. It would be even worse, if other animal is part of their diet. The others might be intelligent and cultured society but screw it because a lion man has to eat something.

So a compromise has to be made and as **** up this might sound to some of you, the prey animals ( the ones that are same species) themselves have to draw a line in the sand on who is consider cattle/livestock and who is consider a civilian with rights.
And that is when true racism starts.

Also animals normally hunt because their hungry, and humans do hunt to put food on the table, but they also hunt for sport.

The frog mutants in "The Croaking" had their society. As Rasputin did say "Humans are inferier, to think otherwise is harassy."

So I would think that yes mutants would split themselves up into various tribes, and social groups based on animal kingdom. So the cat mutants would be one group this would consist of Lions, tigers, demesticated cats and such.

Dogs and Kanids would have their own groups.

Reptiles would have their group so on and so forth.

And yes the mutants based off preditory animals such as wolves, tigers, and such would hunt the mutants based off prey. As we do hear Tigerclaw say he wants to eat Fishface because he's a fish.

But as they are not entirely driven by the instictual need to hunt sate hunger. Some of them would learn and resort to stealing food from markets and resturants after they close as an easy food source. But others may make the need to hunt into a sport. For example Tigerclaw hunts the Turtles down not just out of a desire for vengance, but also for the thrill of the hunt itself.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

Also animals normally hunt because their hungry, and humans do hunt to put food on the table, but they also hunt for sport.

The frog mutants in "The Croaking" had their society. As Rasputin did say "Humans are inferier, to think otherwise is harassy."

So I would think that yes mutants would split themselves up into various tribes, and social groups based on animal kingdom. So the cat mutants would be one group this would consist of Lions, tigers, demesticated cats and such.

Dogs and Kanids would have their own groups.

Reptiles would have their group so on and so forth.

And yes the mutants based off preditory animals such as wolves, tigers, and such would hunt the mutants based off prey. As we do hear Tigerclaw say he wants to eat Fishface because he's a fish.

But as they are not entirely driven by the instictual need to hunt sate hunger. Some of them would learn and resort to stealing food from markets and resturants after they close as an easy food source. But others may make the need to hunt into a sport. For example Tigerclaw hunts the Turtles down not just out of a desire for vengance, but also for the thrill of the hunt itself.

They would for a while until a group of humans come with their guns. Unless the animals are smart and steal the guns and figure how to use them against the humans to defend themselves which will escalate in a full out war.

If they survive and win, more humans will show up and the situation will continue to get worse.

Temptation and desperation will always be there to steal but consequences might dire to their survival in the long run. The frog mutants were probably already in this situation which why they organizing themselves into ranks and troops. They were preparing for a big bloody war.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Luckyday

They would for a while until a group of humans come with their guns. Unless the animals are smart and steal the guns and figure how to use them against the humans to defend themselves which will escalate in a full out war.

If they survive and win, more humans will show up and the situation will continue to get worse.

Temptation and desperation will always be there to steal but consequences might dire to their survival in the long run. The frog mutants were probably already in this situation which why they organizing themselves into ranks and troops. They were preparing for a big bloody war.

Yes there are some who would uses their new found inteligence to gain hold of weapons. But much like humans it's the intent behind it.

Do you just want to live your life without being a bother to any one else, but you aren't above picking up a weapon be it a knife or a gun for the sake of protecting your self and your loved ones.

Or do you pick up weapons because you can and it gives you a means over powering anyone that stands in your way.

With the Frogs according to Attila's backstory he had lost his home urban development. So his intent was to use the mutagen that mutated him, and the other punk frogs and create more mutant frogs to join their cause so they can attack the human cities and due away with humans once and for all.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

Yes there are some who would uses their new found inteligence to gain hold of weapons. But much like humans it's the intent behind it.

Do you just want to live your life without being a bother to any one else, but you aren't above picking up a weapon be it a knife or a gun for the sake of protecting your self and your loved ones.

Or do you pick up weapons because you can and it gives you a means over powering anyone that stands in your way.

To conquer/progress is a common desire in the animal kingdom. Personally, if I were a mutant, I would want a weapon as means of personal security for me and my future kin. Ammunition is a rare resource so I would tried not wasting it on hunting and stick to using bows and arrows. I would always consider risk before deciding anything.

If I had no prior knowledge of how bad it could get, I would probably become involve but if I had negative experiences, I would never even consider it. It just not worth the risk.

[Ninjinister]

S**t that was deep. I'll have to come back and re-read it with fresh eyes in the morning.

[Metalwolf]

Another factor is where the mutant comes from. If it's a mutant animal, I could see it reacting differently to things then a mutated human.

Mutated humans would be a whole 'nother group entirely, since a lot of them would be missing their previous lives, and would know what it is that they are being excluded from. Plus there is almost always the holy grail of being demutated, which would cause inter-fighting if somehow a retromutagen was found to be in somebody's possession.

Not only that, but they'd have kept their previous prejudices, issues and personality, and likely many of the males might end up 'frustrated' after a while. Some might deal with it healthily, and some... might not.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by Metalwolf

Another factor is where the mutant comes from. If it's a mutant animal, I could see it reacting differently to things then a mutated human.

With some human turned mutant animals, they seem to have a dual identity or that they try rationalizing by creating a new identity as a way of coping. It almost like that they see their past selves as someone who had died.

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by Luckyday

With some human turned mutant animals, they seem to have a dual identity or that they try rationalizing by creating a new identity as a way of coping. It almost like that they see their past selves as someone who had died.

Malachi and Tigerclaw seem to fit the new identity thing you mentioned and did do the 'I was this guy' thing, but the others don't seem to fit them that much. Xever might be trending towards that a tiny bit with his mention of a half-tuna woman mutant line, but he and the rest of the mutants thereafter still don't seem to call themselves by a new name, or refer to their 'past selves' in the manner of them having 'died.' Splinter, the most 'tolerant' of his mutant-hood, still referred to himself as Yoshi when he talked to himself in one episode. Most of them seem to strive to keep their humanity as much as possible, Splinter keeps his Japanese heritage and said the line "I might not be human, but I still have my humanity.' He also still wants to have his daughter back, which seems to say that he hasn't decoupled from his human life, but the mutant thing just heavily complicates things. Shredder's mutants also strive to keep their 'humanity.' Shredder never refers to them as their Turtle-given mutant names, nor do they take on a new name of their own. While Xever might be leaning towards accepting his mutant status, Bradford gets downright violent if he gets referred to as a 'dog' and not 'man.' Not only that, whenever any retromutagen rears it's head, Shredder's goons are the first to elbow anybody else out of the way for it, even their fellow 'henchmen.'

It seems that if someone gets mutated as a child (Tigerclaw and Malachi) they seem to accept it fast, but adults don't deal with it as well, and at times can get downright nasty and vindictive. .

And would the human mutants be considered as animals now? That kind of makes me uneasy for some reason, because that implies they dropped a status and can now be killed and eaten.

[victory_angel]

It's also depends on how much grap the person has of his faculties when he mutates. After all yes we've seen humans mutated into animals but they are still able maintain control of their minds such as Splinter, Bradford, and Xever have.

Other people have not been quite as fortunate such Kirby and Mutagen man. It's like they barely remember being human if at all. I mean Kirby has enough mental faculties to recognize April and the need to protect her and provide for her. But otherwise is largely feril minded.

Mutagen man sort of remembers being human, but he blames the Turtles for what has happened to him. He feels he was mutated because Donnie didn't warn him how painful it would be and what the result would be. Even though ironicly Donnie was doing nothing but warning him that the Mutagen was unpridictable and would not give him happiness.

Then you get some who are inbetween both worlds. You get Baxter Stockmen who sort of has his mind, but his intelect is not what it was due to him being mutated into a fly. And then you have Rockwell who is still very inteligent, but he isn't able to speak because of his mutation.

With mutated animals more often then not you do get inteligent humanoid animal mutations. Such as leatherhead, the Punk Frogs, and Slash. But there have been some feral minded ones as well such as Justin and the Wasps.

Some of these mutants feel better off with the mutation because they have advantages that they didn't have as a human. Such as Tiger Claw using cat like agility and his sense of smell as an advantage. And Splinter has his speed, his hearing, his tale as an extra weapon, and sense of smell.

Others may feel the mutation while it does give them advantages and abilities they didn't have as human. They still have things they miss from their human life. Such as Sir Malachi since he's a kid misses his family. He probably has a mother and father out there who are worried sick about where he is He also probably has friends he's played Mazes and Mutants with. Which was why he pulled the Turtles into his larp game because he just wanted friends to play his game with him.

With Bradford he originally wanted to be returned to human because as Dogpound he was clumsy. But now that he's Rahzar, yes he has more advantage in that form and he's more leathal. And yet I think Bradford also misses the fame and celebratie that he had as a human.

And Xever he pretty much said he misses his dick when he said "I want to live like a man...Love like a man."

And it can't be easy to exist as a mutant when the rest of the world pretty much sees you as dead.


Donnie is able to create retromutagen yes, but he's not going to just give that to just anyone. Now that he knows for a fact that he can find a way to return people back from mutation he knows he can't just force a mutant to be returned to normal. With most of them such as Rockwell and Karai if he has retromutagen available he will ask first if they do want to be human again.

The only time Donnie would force retromutagen is if the person is too much of a threat as a mutant

Yet there are people such as Stockman, Rahzar, and Fishface who want to be restored to human. And they don't care if they have to murder the person who created it in order to aquire the retromutagen itself. It would be something they could gloat about. And also there is the Shredder who wants to restore Karai to human by any means.

Other people might consider anyone who can create Retromutagen as a threat and advantage to the opposing team, and that threat is better eliminated as soon as possible.

[TigerClaw]

As far as human to mutants vs animals to mutants are concern. Animals to Mutants have a higher learning curve.

Since they never been humanoid before, They have to learn how to be like one, while dealing with their feral side. or humans to mutants, who know they used to be human, and retain all the knowledge, and intelligence they had when they were human, But also dealing with the feral side that they aren't used to, and sometimes can't control.

TigerClaw for example, Is a Human to Mutant, Very much acts like human, But also has a feral size when he gets angry.

Leatherhead gets into feral mode when he's angry or attacked by an enemy.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by Metalwolf

And would the human mutants be considered as animals now? That kind of makes me uneasy for some reason, because that implies they dropped a status and can now be killed and eaten.

It depends how bad it is. Dehumanize a group is a way to rationalizing or to make it okay. In general, it's why we humans once thought (Most of still do) it was ok to own slaves.

As strategy for prey mutant animals, they would capture and attempt to farm the normal animals and sell them as trade to the predator mutants in order ensure peace and harmony, but doing would require for them to share the same diet resources with the normals, and would be stressful depending on the conditions of the environment.

That also the under assumption that all of the same species are willing to work together as one unit rather then put more focusing on keep close knit families alive.

Humans turn mutants would keep their human side but it would be the only thing that they share as a group but who knows how long that fact will keep them together when **** hits the fan.

[TigerClaw]

I could see a faction of mutants being the ones on the human side, and those on the animals side.

Then a war between the two factions would happen, Until. a mutant from both sides develope some sort of relationship, which results in both sides getting a truce.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I could see a faction of mutants being the ones on the human side, and those on the animals side.

Then a war between the two factions would happen, Until. a mutant from both sides develope some sort of relationship, which results in both sides getting a truce.

So what kind agreement would they reach? Kind in mind that these mutants are fighting for resources and not because of the old "humans are evil and mother nature hates them because they keep burning trees for the lulz".

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by Luckyday

So what kind agreement would they reach? Kind in mind that these mutants are fighting for resources and not because of the old "humans are evil and mother nature hates them because they keep burning trees for the lulz".

I was hinting at the idea a mutant from both sides, developing a relationship that result in the birth of an offspring, Both see that and decided not to fight each other, because they are one the same.

I would like to see the series do a Time Travel story, with the Turtles visiting the future, and seeing NYC overrun with Mutants.