What does Nickelodeon not allow IDW to do? - Page 3

HeroTurtlesFan · 01-20-2015, 06:00 AM

Wow, so many moans about the Turtles not killing anyone and it all being Nick's fault.

Am I the only one who is quite happy for my heroes not to be killers?

And for this to be a "family franchise" - meaning we get younger-skewed stuff (e.g. Half Shell Heroes), children/young adult (Nick TMNT - some of those episodes definitely aren't suited for very young children) and stuff aimed at us oldies too (IDW comic, the rash of Mirage/OT-based merchandise etc).

Leo656, I think you are being far too pessimistic about Nick and the current state of the franchise. Please don't take offense, just my opinion. You've also put me in the awkward position of agreeing with Cybercubed!

Cubed is right, though - all franchises will inevitably have highs, lows, very lows, time out of the limelight etc. I think Nick has done a great job with how it is managing the franchise, but I suspect in 4 or 5 years TMNT will take another break from the popular culture spotlight. And that's a perfectly healthy part of the lifecycle for these sorts of things. Even juggernauts like Star Wars and Transformers have had moments of inertia/decline.

*Rooish* · 01-20-2015, 06:07 AM

Why wouldn't they just sell it then? I mean it would make lots of money!

*CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy* · 01-20-2015, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rooish

Why wouldn't they just sell it then? I mean it would make lots of money!

Because some money you will make isn't as attractive as more money you may make by retaining the rights for some unspecified future windfall. I side with Leo656 on this.

I believe it is a direct correlation to Nick owning the TMNT that has prevented Leo from killing anyone in "City Fall" (which IMO neutered that entire story-arc) and has potentially forced all of the artists to mimic the cartoon with childish Turtles (especially Mikey and Don). THAT is my biggest pet peeve... man, I miss Dan Duncan from the first twelve issues.

Sophie Campbell · 01-20-2015, 10:02 AM

i wish i could go into some of the stuff Nickelodeon has had me change but i won't for the sake of professionalism, but i'm not working on TMNT at the moment and probably not for the foreseeable future, so i'll say more than i would otherwise.

as far as i know the only main mandate from up high is that the Turtles can't kill. obviously i'm just an artist and a sporadic one at that, i don't know what goes on with the powers that be, but i was involved in the script process on the stories i've drawn and privy to the changes that were requested and made, but the changes are mostly relegated to individual cases. they were even cool with me suggesting my own ideas, like April's haircut in Northampton, or Pepperoni in Turtles in Time. same with the art, i've never been given any mandates on what i must do or can't do. there's no mandate that the Turtles look like the Nickelodeon cartoon Turtles, in fact Mateus has stated elsewhere that there was some concern that they SHOULDN'T look like the cartoon Turtles (also look at Andy Kuhn, Charles Wilson III, etc.).

from what i can tell the Nickelodeon higher-ups aren't involved, we deal with a couple freelance and in-house editors whose requests are vary on a case by case basis, and sometimes they change from day to day, like one day they'll remark on an aspect of character design that they don't like, but then it's fine in the next instance of the same thing. it all depends on the individual scene or drawing. the editors' personal preferences are probably the largest factor. they're people, too, they have their own preferences and dislikes like anyone does.

i've had a few battles with the Nick editors, i have no problem fighting with them and being a diva to get my way, and the little things that they fuss about can get on my nerves, but overall they're extremely lenient. the Alopex issue and Turtles in Time #1 in particular, those were a breeze, they didn't have me change anything art-wise. it was all me. aside from one huge fight, Northampton was also a great experience, they let me do anything i wanted. the worst experience i've had was when i pitched to write the April O'Neil micro issue, it was an awful, soul-crushing experience. the story was eventually rejected at the last minute.

i think the Nick editors have also gotten much more casual and lenient as the comic series has progressed, too, as it's settled into what it is and everyone knows more what it's about and it's less amorphous than it was in the early days. there's more leeway now. it seems like they're also much harder on writers than they are on the artists.

i see a lot of people speculating about what goes on behind the scenes with licensed comics, like the parent companies handing down lists of corporate mandates and restrictive marketing campaigns and all that, but most of the time that's not the case. with Nickelodeon and Hasbro, it's all really lenient and casual. all the TMNT stuff has to go through the approval process, yeah, but for the most part things end up how the artists want to draw them. you guys wouldn't believe how hands-off Hasbro is, i've seen people theorizing about all the behind-the-scenes corporate maneuvering on the Jem & the Holograms i'm working on now, but the art is seriously all me. they basically turned me loose to do whatever the hell i want. Nickelodeon is more restrictive, but they largely turned me loose, too.

anyway, i felt like i should step in here and give my two cents and tell you guys some of the experiences i've had personally. and of course i can't speak for the other TMNT creators, these experiences are my own.

*CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy* · 01-20-2015, 10:11 AM

Thanks for the inside scoop, Ross! I hope you enjoy your new gig!

And I gotta say, even though I'm not a fan of the Turtles looking younger, I LOVED your Alopex issue.

*TigerClaw* · 01-20-2015, 10:22 AM

So Nickelodeon doesn't want an April O'Neil Micro Series? Why is that? what I want to know, is, what is the issue they have with April as a character?

Is it cause they don't want people confused with the two versions? Does Nick only want to acknowledge that the April that only exist, Is the cartoon version?

Are they concerned that, they only want the male demographic?

I'm sensing a whole lot of studio politics going around, and we hear about stuff like that all the time with other studios.

*Powder* · 01-20-2015, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

So Nickelodeon doesn't want an April O'Neil Micro Series? Why is that? what I want to know, is, what is the issue they have with April as a character?

...She already got one.

*TigerClaw* · 01-20-2015, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powder

...She already got one.

lol your right.

Sophie Campbell · 01-20-2015, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

So Nickelodeon doesn't want an April O'Neil Micro Series? Why is that? what I want to know, is, what is the issue they have with April as a character?

Is it cause they don't want people confused with the two versions? Does Nick only want to acknowledge that the April that only exist, Is the cartoon version?

Are they concerned that, they only want the male demographic?

I'm sensing a whole lot of studio politics going around, and we hear about stuff like that all the time with other studios.

edit: you guys beat me to it!

there WAS an April micro-series issue! they just didn't end up going with my story for it. and there's no problem with the two Aprils being confused with each other, no. there's no problem like that existing for any other character with multiple versions, April is no different. every single thing IDW is doing isn't vetted by the big bosses at Nickelodeon.

i don't know why they didn't want her on that one 30th Anniversary cover, like i was saying a lot if it is simply personal preference, maybe the editors didn't like the particular drawing or something. i think fans have a hard time believing it but a lot of times it really comes down to something that simple.

*Powder* · 01-20-2015, 10:36 AM

I always assumed their beef was with OT April's outfit, as some say it's too sexualized.

*CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy* · 01-20-2015, 10:37 AM

What was your idea? Always interested in alternate paths... or are you not allowed to say?

*TigerClaw* · 01-20-2015, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powder

I always assumed their beef was with OT April's outfit, as some say it's too sexualized.

a yellow jumpsuit is too sexualized?

lilmotto · 01-20-2015, 10:48 AM

The only thing that will kill the tv show is the current season.... please no more Seth Green.

Usagi Miyamoto · 01-20-2015, 03:18 PM

Thanks a lot for the info, glad to hear that Nick doesn't keep IDW under chains.

And honestly, I'm fine with the turtles not killing, though I hope that if the story really called for it they'd be allowed to.

*oldmanwinters* · 01-20-2015, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powder

I always assumed their beef was with OT April's outfit, as some say it's too sexualized.

I can understand their concern... possibly aggravated by some heavily circulated pics of fan art or cosplays. But one would think it might have just been easier for them to request the artist redraw her pose instead of deleting her altogether. Maybe they did make the request and there just wasn't enough time? The artist doesn't seem to desire to elaborate at length on the subject over at the Deviantart page.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross Campbell

April is no different. every single thing IDW is doing isn't vetted by the big bosses at Nickelodeon.

i don't know why they didn't want her on that one 30th Anniversary cover, like i was saying a lot if it is simply personal preference, maybe the editors didn't like the particular drawing or something. i think fans have a hard time believing it but a lot of times it really comes down to something that simple.

Thanks for sharing your experience, Ross! I am among those who would LOVE to hear a summary or breakdown on your idea for the April Micro!

Mutant Ninja Anole · 01-20-2015, 05:37 PM

Was hoping to hear from one of the staff that post here. Thanks for the input Ross!

Sophie Campbell · 01-20-2015, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

What was your idea? Always interested in alternate paths... or are you not allowed to say?

i probably shouldn't go too much into it, but whatever, haha. the story was while everyone else is out of town, April finds Alopex all beat up in an alley way, after receiving a beating from the Foot for continually failing her missions (in one version it was going to be Bebop and Rocksteady that beat her up, foreshadowing their mutation way earlier). April takes her home and nurses her back to health, and it would have introduced Klunk, too, April and Alopex were going to bond over getting him to warm up to them. then Alopex was going to prepare to kill April while she slept, but then April wakes up and confronts her, revealing that she knew Alopex was with the Foot all along, and Alopex spares her because April was the first person to ever show her any kindness. i wanted to show a strength that April had that wasn't punching or fighting like the other characters, something that got into her personality more.

anyway, that was the basic story without getting into the details. the April issue they ended up going with was great though, so it worked out. Marley Zarcone!!

*oldmanwinters* · 01-20-2015, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross Campbell

i probably shouldn't go too much into it, but whatever, haha. the story was while everyone else is out of town, April finds Alopex all beat up in an alley way, after receiving a beating from the Foot for continually failing her missions (in one version it was going to be Bebop and Rocksteady that beat her up, foreshadowing their mutation way earlier). April takes her home and nurses her back to health, and it would have introduced Klunk, too, April and Alopex were going to bond over getting him to warm up to them. then Alopex was going to prepare to kill April while she slept, but then April wakes up and confronts her, revealing that she knew Alopex was with the Foot all along, and Alopex spares her because April was the first person to ever show her any kindness. i wanted to show a strength that April had that wasn't punching or fighting like the other characters, something that got into her personality more.

anyway, that was the basic story without getting into the details. the April issue they ended up going with was great though, so it worked out. Marley Zarcone!!

It's a great concept! But I fear it might have come across as too similar to the Raphael Micro that already featured Alopex in a large capacity. Either way, I'm sure you would have knocked it out of the park artistically!

Sophie Campbell · 01-20-2015, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

It's a great concept! But I fear it might have come across as too similar to the Raphael Micro that already featured Alopex in a large capacity. Either way, I'm sure you would have knocked it out of the park artistically!

thanks! yeah, that was one of the concerns, that it also involved Alopex being deceptive or whatever, despite the story around that being different. it was really similar. but basically i just wanted April and Alopex to have a sleepover. XD

oh another part i just remembered, duh, was that April could no longer relate to regular human people now that her life was all crazy with ninjas and mutants, and she stopped hanging out with her roommate Trish and her other friends. and when Alopex came along, April could relate to her because she was a mutant and she could understand April's new life. April didn't have to hide from Alopex like she has to hide from everyone else in the human world.

*oldmanwinters* · 01-20-2015, 06:24 PM

Maybe it's all for the best how things ultimately worked out. It was on account of April that Slash received his opportunity to roam free... or at least tag along with Hob.

01-20-2015, 10:02 AM	#44
Sophie Campbell Official TMNT Staff/Cast Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 498	i wish i could go into some of the stuff Nickelodeon has had me change but i won't for the sake of professionalism, but i'm not working on TMNT at the moment and probably not for the foreseeable future, so i'll say more than i would otherwise. as far as i know the only main mandate from up high is that the Turtles can't kill. obviously i'm just an artist and a sporadic one at that, i don't know what goes on with the powers that be, but i was involved in the script process on the stories i've drawn and privy to the changes that were requested and made, but the changes are mostly relegated to individual cases. they were even cool with me suggesting my own ideas, like April's haircut in Northampton, or Pepperoni in Turtles in Time. same with the art, i've never been given any mandates on what i must do or can't do. there's no mandate that the Turtles look like the Nickelodeon cartoon Turtles, in fact Mateus has stated elsewhere that there was some concern that they SHOULDN'T look like the cartoon Turtles (also look at Andy Kuhn, Charles Wilson III, etc.). from what i can tell the Nickelodeon higher-ups aren't involved, we deal with a couple freelance and in-house editors whose requests are vary on a case by case basis, and sometimes they change from day to day, like one day they'll remark on an aspect of character design that they don't like, but then it's fine in the next instance of the same thing. it all depends on the individual scene or drawing. the editors' personal preferences are probably the largest factor. they're people, too, they have their own preferences and dislikes like anyone does. i've had a few battles with the Nick editors, i have no problem fighting with them and being a diva to get my way, and the little things that they fuss about can get on my nerves, but overall they're extremely lenient. the Alopex issue and Turtles in Time #1 in particular, those were a breeze, they didn't have me change anything art-wise. it was all me. aside from one huge fight, Northampton was also a great experience, they let me do anything i wanted. the worst experience i've had was when i pitched to write the April O'Neil micro issue, it was an awful, soul-crushing experience. the story was eventually rejected at the last minute. i think the Nick editors have also gotten much more casual and lenient as the comic series has progressed, too, as it's settled into what it is and everyone knows more what it's about and it's less amorphous than it was in the early days. there's more leeway now. it seems like they're also much harder on writers than they are on the artists. i see a lot of people speculating about what goes on behind the scenes with licensed comics, like the parent companies handing down lists of corporate mandates and restrictive marketing campaigns and all that, but most of the time that's not the case. with Nickelodeon and Hasbro, it's all really lenient and casual. all the TMNT stuff has to go through the approval process, yeah, but for the most part things end up how the artists want to draw them. you guys wouldn't believe how hands-off Hasbro is, i've seen people theorizing about all the behind-the-scenes corporate maneuvering on the Jem & the Holograms i'm working on now, but the art is seriously all me. they basically turned me loose to do whatever the hell i want. Nickelodeon is more restrictive, but they largely turned me loose, too. anyway, i felt like i should step in here and give my two cents and tell you guys some of the experiences i've had personally. and of course i can't speak for the other TMNT creators, these experiences are my own. Last edited by Sophie Campbell; 01-20-2015 at 10:30 AM.

01-20-2015, 10:11 AM	#45
CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy Annalist Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 16,435	Thanks for the inside scoop, Ross! I hope you enjoy your new gig! And I gotta say, even though I'm not a fan of the Turtles looking younger, I LOVED your Alopex issue. __________________ *ALL THEIR DAYS ARE NUMBERED*

01-20-2015, 10:22 AM	#46
TigerClaw Mutant Tiger Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Hialeah, Florida, USA Posts: 14,160	So Nickelodeon doesn't want an April O'Neil Micro Series? Why is that? what I want to know, is, what is the issue they have with April as a character? Is it cause they don't want people confused with the two versions? Does Nick only want to acknowledge that the April that only exist, Is the cartoon version? Are they concerned that, they only want the male demographic? I'm sensing a whole lot of studio politics going around, and we hear about stuff like that all the time with other studios. __________________ Follow me on my Tiktok https://www.tiktok.com/@tygerclaw305

01-20-2015, 10:37 AM	#51
CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy Annalist Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 16,435	What was your idea? Always interested in alternate paths... or are you not allowed to say? __________________ *ALL THEIR DAYS ARE NUMBERED*

01-20-2015, 10:48 AM	#53
lilmotto Stone Warrior Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 813	The only thing that will kill the tv show is the current season.... please no more Seth Green. __________________ I list items on ebay frequently: http://shop.ebay.com/lilmotto/m.html...1&_from=&_ipg=

01-20-2015, 06:00 AM	#41
HeroTurtlesFan Hench Mutant Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 265	Wow, so many moans about the Turtles not killing anyone and it all being Nick's fault. Am I the only one who is quite happy for my heroes not to be killers? And for this to be a "family franchise" - meaning we get younger-skewed stuff (e.g. Half Shell Heroes), children/young adult (Nick TMNT - some of those episodes definitely aren't suited for very young children) and stuff aimed at us oldies too (IDW comic, the rash of Mirage/OT-based merchandise etc). Leo656, I think you are being far too pessimistic about Nick and the current state of the franchise. Please don't take offense, just my opinion. You've also put me in the awkward position of agreeing with Cybercubed! Cubed is right, though - all franchises will inevitably have highs, lows, very lows, time out of the limelight etc. I think Nick has done a great job with how it is managing the franchise, but I suspect in 4 or 5 years TMNT will take another break from the popular culture spotlight. And that's a perfectly healthy part of the lifecycle for these sorts of things. Even juggernauts like Star Wars and Transformers have had moments of inertia/decline.

01-20-2015, 06:07 AM	#42
Rooish Devil's Advocate Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 2,130	Why wouldn't they just sell it then? I mean it would make lots of money!

01-20-2015, 10:36 AM	#50
Powder 40 Years of TMNT Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shell-Ri-La Posts: 26,945	I always assumed their beef was with OT April's outfit, as some say it's too sexualized.

01-20-2015, 03:18 PM	#54
Usagi Miyamoto Random Punk Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 40	Thanks a lot for the info, glad to hear that Nick doesn't keep IDW under chains. And honestly, I'm fine with the turtles not killing, though I hope that if the story really called for it they'd be allowed to.

01-20-2015, 05:37 PM	#56
Mutant Ninja Anole Stone Warrior Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: USA Posts: 591	Was hoping to hear from one of the staff that post here. Thanks for the input Ross! __________________ My stupid Tumblr

01-20-2015, 06:24 PM	#60
oldmanwinters Overlord Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Between yesterday and tomorrow! Posts: 15,436	Maybe it's all for the best how things ultimately worked out. It was on account of April that Slash received his opportunity to roam free... or at least tag along with Hob. __________________ Experience the TMNT Fan Commentaries! Check out my TMNT fan comic, "Nothing to Fear"! View my sketch work! I'm selling some of my hard-to-find TMNT items!