How will the love triangle be resolved?

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

'Course it's us ladies that got complicated and ended up doing it a little differently depending on species. Men, well, I guess most of them do their part the same more or less be they mammal or reptile, so I can see why the female end of the deal might not really faze Donnie yet at his age. lol

But I do see a trend of human male characters getting it on with female humanoids while us gals tend to settle for Cthulhu.

[IndigoErth]

Not sure I quite caught that, but yeah.. I think. Bet few would take issue if it was Casey with mutant interests.

[DarkFell]

Wonder how much confusion it would cause if the Donnie/April/Casey affair just stopped.
Everyone in the show would just go on throughout the show and pretend that none of it ever happened.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Not sure I quite caught that, but yeah.. I think. Bet few would take issue if it was Casey with mutant interests.

I was hinting to hentai in generally but it also applied to mostly sci fi as well.

But I am not complaining because Garrus is awesome.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Tarris Vaal

I suppose another question here would be - for those who really dont like the relationship between Donatello and April in the show, is there a particular reason for this? I often get the impression its more the way it is handled, than the idea of a relationship between them itself.

I, for one, don't have a huge problem with the idea (although Donnie and April in general is not a pairing I quite "buy" for various reasons). My problem is, there's a way to tell that story, to have it make sense, and to have it be believable, but THIS SHOW was never going to be the place for it, because it's a Nick show aimed at little kids.

In truth, a human being having a romantic relationship with a non-human would be a HUGE deal for everyone involved, involving tons of moral, ethical, and physical complications, and NONE of that was ever going to be properly explored in THIS show. Things like:
- "How would her family react?"
- "How long could they keep it a secret from 'society'?"
- "How would 'society' react?"
- "Could they ever even go out in public together, to do normal 'relationship things' that all couples do? Or what, they just sit around inside watching NetFlix forever?"
- "Where would they live, were they to live together? April forever hiding Donnie in her place, or April, a human being, resigning herself to live in a filthy sewer to be closer to 'her love'?"
- "What happens when eventually - inevitably - April develops physical/emotional attraction to someone of her own species... THEN what?"
- And then, of course, there's the "physical" question, which people can't pretend doesn't exist: "All creatures have hormones, and WHAT are those two supposed to do about that, and what happens WHEN, not if, someone finds out about that?"

Again, it's realistically a lot more complicated than, "Awww, how cute, they're 'different' but they're together and that's adorable." The moral, ethical, and physical dilemmas raised by the pairing are real, they are serious, and they were never going to be given a satisfactory exploration or conclusion on THIS show. Thus, THIS show never should have even gone there in the first place. It is simply not the place to tell that story. The writers knew that going in. They just wanted to mess with people. It hurts the show, it wastes time that could be spent on other things, it makes both April and Donnie very unlikable, and that's why *I* don't like it. It's more or less ruined the show for me entirely, because things of actual consequence have to take a backseat to this, and "this" is going nowhere.

[Tarris Vaal]

- "How would her family react?"
- "How long could they keep it a secret from 'society'?"
- "How would 'society' react?"
- "Could they ever even go out in public together, to do normal 'relationship things' that all couples do? Or what, they just sit around inside watching NetFlix forever?"
- "Where would they live, were they to live together? April forever hiding Donnie in her place, or April, a human being, resigning herself to live in a filthy sewer to be closer to 'her love'?"
- "What happens when eventually - inevitably - April develops physical/emotional attraction to someone of her own species... THEN what?"
- And then, of course, there's the "physical" question, which people can't pretend doesn't exist: "All creatures have hormones, and WHAT are those two supposed to do about that, and what happens WHEN, not if, someone finds out about that?"

See any of that I would have LOVED to have seen the writers tackle (I suppose they did touch on family reaction very, very lightly but it was pretty pathetically brief) - but you are right, most of it can't easily be touched on in a show like this. Really makes you wish they would make a version aimed at an older demographic that wasn't banished to comic form (something like the old Spawn series)

Having said that, the original Xmen series and Gargoyles were both able to dabble with subjects like this a little more - I know both were aimed slightly higher for age groups, but not that much more and it'd be nice to think that after all those horror episodes early season 3 they might look to nudge the target demographic a little higher (a bit like how the Potter series grew up with the readership.) Wishful thinking i know

- "What happens when eventually - inevitably - April develops physical/emotional attraction to someone of her own species... THEN what?

You get an awkward love triangle that drives the fans to despair due to being dragged out over multiple seasons.... wait a minute...


Its only really the last point that would be almost impossible to do in the context of this series (without knocking the target demographic completely out of Nick's comfort zone).

Maybe an official fan request for a Turtles series aimed at 15yrs+ is in order?

[Leo656]

To see it portrayed the MOST realistically, it might have to skew even older than that. I mean, to compare to real life, it wasn't all that long ago that, at least in America, if a black guy was caught with a white woman, they both could be legally killed without repercussions. Not "officially" obviously but the moral outrage was such that "the law" would always look the other way.

Imagine the public outcry if a human being was "outed" as having a physical relationship with a mutant animal? There would have to be an entire season JUST about them "going underground" to avoid a lynching. He'd be killed and she'd be committed to an asylum and given electroshock and a lobotomy. IF we're being "realistic" about it.

This kind of thing is why I feel some stories could only be told with TMNT characters, if TMNT existed in a universe like DC/Marvel where there's already tons of "abnormal" characters walking around and nobody cares. That's literally the only place where a human/Turtle relationship would exist without persecution. And even then it's kind of suspect.

[Tarris Vaal]

But one of the strengths of the Turtles is that it can be light hearted - I think a version which could look at and touch upon a lot of these issues without being bogged down in them would work best. Realism can only go so far in a show like this

[Leo656]

It kind of breaks the fiction, though. As in, why would they need to stay hidden in a sewer at all if people were that accepting? The entire TMNT premise is based on the idea of, "The World Is Not OK With Them Existing." Adding a romantic relationship with a human being into it causes nothing but complications. If people aren't okay with mutants existing, they definitely wouldn't like to see one of them "date" a human being. And if they're okay with either of those things, then you need to remove the whole "outcasts from society" and "forced to live in a sewer" things completely.

It's just a matter of, you can't have it both ways.

[Luckyday]

If the writers were smart they would use plot outline of the mirage volume 4 by having aliens (it can be either Neutrinos or Styracodons, since they are enemies of both Triceratons and Kraang) come down reveal themselves but insistent that they are not here to invade and want co-exist peacefully.

THEN it would make sense for the writers not bother tackles those serious issues because the strange is now part of the norm. However the only thing is that the turtles have to pretend that they are aliens meaning they themselves can't get too close with anybody so there is still a element of danger. They situation would in many ways similar to what telepathic or normal looking mutants have to go through in X-men like Kitty Pryde, Jean Gray, and Hank before he turn into a blue furry ape man.

[Konchadunga]

You know, as obnoxious as people make out Mike's crush on April in the movies to be, Leo656 has made me think of one thing it has going for it above this show--it's only played for laughs in the movies. It's a turtle being horny, maybe even creepy, but we know he's not going to do anything truly bad to a woman and he's never so obsessed as to have it push everything else from his mind for very long. They don't treat it as anything that's going to go anywhere, and so then they don't have to look stupid when it doesn't go many places or they botch the places it does go.

Even so, when I remember how Sgt Frog handled the relationship between Giroro and Natsumi, I have to say this show is truly running on fumes. Keroro is not a serious series. It has its serious moments, but it never creates the impression that anything is at stake for very long, and continuity is pretty minimal. Yet it still managed to give us an interspecies semi-romance that was driven by personalities rather than carnality, and did develop its characters.

This series, on the other hand, tries to convince us things are at stake and that something big is coming, but takes too long to get there; the Don/April relationship is only the tip of that iceberg.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Konchadunga

It's a turtle being horny, maybe even creepy, but we know he's not going to do anything truly bad to a woman and he's never so obsessed as to have it push everything else from his mind for very long. They don't treat it as anything that's going to go anywhere, and so then they don't have to look stupid when it doesn't go many places or they botch the places it does go.

Ya never know... if Megan Fox gets script approval for the sequel, we may end up with a scene of Leo walking in on Mikey and April in the shower together or something like that, based on how she talks.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Ya never know... if Megan Fox gets script approval for the sequel, we may end up with a scene of Leo walking in on Mikey and April in the shower together or something like that, based on how she talks.

Only if Leo is allowed to blush and back peddle-stumble over himself in reaction. Highly trained ninja skills are no match for encountering THAT unexpected sight.

[aliena]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I, for one, don't have a huge problem with the idea (although Donnie and April in general is not a pairing I quite "buy" for various reasons). My problem is, there's a way to tell that story, to have it make sense, and to have it be believable, but THIS SHOW was never going to be the place for it, because it's a Nick show aimed at little kids.

In truth, a human being having a romantic relationship with a non-human would be a HUGE deal for everyone involved, involving tons of moral, ethical, and physical complications, and NONE of that was ever going to be properly explored in THIS show. Things like:
- "How would her family react?"
- "How long could they keep it a secret from 'society'?"
- "How would 'society' react?"
- "Could they ever even go out in public together, to do normal 'relationship things' that all couples do? Or what, they just sit around inside watching NetFlix forever?"
- "Where would they live, were they to live together? April forever hiding Donnie in her place, or April, a human being, resigning herself to live in a filthy sewer to be closer to 'her love'?"
- "What happens when eventually - inevitably - April develops physical/emotional attraction to someone of her own species... THEN what?"
- And then, of course, there's the "physical" question, which people can't pretend doesn't exist: "All creatures have hormones, and WHAT are those two supposed to do about that, and what happens WHEN, not if, someone finds out about that?"

Again, it's realistically a lot more complicated than, "Awww, how cute, they're 'different' but they're together and that's adorable." The moral, ethical, and physical dilemmas raised by the pairing are real, they are serious, and they were never going to be given a satisfactory exploration or conclusion on THIS show. Thus, THIS show never should have even gone there in the first place. It is simply not the place to tell that story. The writers knew that going in. They just wanted to mess with people. It hurts the show, it wastes time that could be spent on other things, it makes both April and Donnie very unlikable, and that's why *I* don't like it. It's more or less ruined the show for me entirely, because things of actual consequence have to take a backseat to this, and "this" is going nowhere.

All your points are valid. If I, a human female, fell in love with Donnie, or Raph , how long would I put up with living hidden away in a sewer? We'd probably never marry or be able to have kids and there's no going on normal dates or travelling either.

Not to mention letting him meet my friends and coworkers. It would be a completely difficult situation all around and possibly, when I met a human man that I liked, I might break up with Raph(not me, of course).

There are so many situations to deal with and then there's sex. I'm not trying to formulate anything here, but the guys in the movie look like they could be quite well endowed(Just sayin' is all) and would they trade diseases? It's so easy to write fanfiction, but in reality it would be a tough situation.

[Leo656]

Yeah, I think a lot of people are just looking at it like "Aww, so cute, 'love' conquers all!" and seriously over-simplifying all of it.

Also, as others have often said, from Donnie's side it's a lot less "love" and a lot more like "stalking", anyway.

[victory_angel]

- "How would her family react?"

We don't know Kirby long enough to get any idea about his views on April dating. Given how protective he is, I don't think he'd take the idea of her dating all that well. And even less so if the person she is in a relationship with is a mutant.

- "How long could they keep it a secret from 'society'?"

Well obviously that would be something she wouldn't talk about. April can always disquise it and say her husbend isn't very social, or that he's sick, or visiting relitives. And in more extream situations have Casey pretend he's her husbend. And then if a time comes where Mutants and or aliens are more accepted Donnie can be brought out and introduced.

Take Fast Forward from the 2k3 series. It is stated that Donnie, April, and Casey start a buisness firm called O'Neil Tech. I doubt Casey had much of a role as a founder, so he may have been more there in terms of a figure head. While April and Donnie were carrying the company. When O'Neil tech was starting Donnie was more of a silent partner until human society was more ready to accept the existance of mutants.

- "How would 'society' react?"

I think much like interatial and gay marrage were in the past, having any sort of sexual or marital relationship with a non-human would be heavily frowned upon.

With interatial relationships it was frowned upon in terms of having the resulting child essentually being a racial mut. And in the slave days people who were slaves were not viewed as people. They were seen as property or chattle but they weren't seen as people. So if a slave was forced to sleep with her owner authorities would look the other way because it was a victimless crime. And any resulting children were viewed and treated as slaves even though they were part white. Same views are true to day in some parts of the world.

Gay relationships were viewed as unnatural because two people of the same gender can't procreate. And there are parts of the world where people are executed for being gay.

With a human/non-human relationship as sex partners yes that would be considered unnatural because they wouldn't be able to produce children and it would bring up alot of statcutes about beastiality. But it would depend on how open April would be with it. I doub't she would openly tell people that she is in a relationship with a mutant turtle. As I pointed out above, if she was questioned about her love life, she would just say her her husbend isn't social or use Casey as a beard.

- "Could they ever even go out in public together, to do normal 'relationship things' that all couples do? Or what, they just sit around inside watching NetFlix forever?"

It depends on how mutants and non-humans are accepted by human society. If humans haven't accepted non-humans that just means that Donnie and April wouldn't be catching dinner and movie but rather find other means of having fun. Such as runs along the roof tops, sitting and enjoying the night sky. Heck the show even has a photo of Donnie pushing April on a park swing.

- "Where would they live, were they to live together? April forever hiding Donnie in her place, or April, a human being, resigning herself to live in a filthy sewer to be closer to 'her love'?"

A good spot would be the farm house. They could live in a relitively human environment, there few to no people around for miles. Income can be collected via selling chicken eggs, and anything else they can make or harvest there. There is also the option of print on demand shops and Donnie can invent stuff that could be patented and marketed.

And they can have things such as romantic moonlight hikes. Picnics, or just standing on the porch watching the sunset.

- "What happens when eventually - inevitably - April develops physical/emotional attraction to someone of her own species... THEN what?"

April has an emotional attraction to Donnie so far, she is far too invested in trying to get her dad back to be interested in a physical relationship at this time

- And then, of course, there's the "physical" question, which people can't pretend doesn't exist: "All creatures have hormones, and WHAT are those two supposed to do about that, and what happens WHEN, not if, someone finds out about that?"

Sex can and will happen. And as for children or having a legacy they can get around that, one such example is adopting children such as children rejected by a family member because of mutation. Or starting something that could leave their mark upon the world.

Originally Posted by Leo656

Yeah, I think a lot of people are just looking at it like "Aww, so cute, 'love' conquers all!" and seriously over-simplifying all of it.

Also, as others have often said, from Donnie's side it's a lot less "love" and a lot more like "stalking", anyway.

Stalking is following and obsessing over someone in a way that makes them feel threatened. Donnie doesn't make April feel threatend. Yes his innital attempts at gaining her attention are awkward, but as I have pointed before the closest thing Donnie had seen to an actual girl was TV. You can't go on the internet and look up "instruction books on woman". And even if you could they would either be written from male perception or it would be based on the views of one woman and how she classifies herself as a person. And what she feels she herself would like in a relationship with a man.

Donnie does pay attention to how April reacts to things he does. So if there is something she doesn't like he doesn't do it again. His master plan was only ment as a list of sinareos in which he can spend time with her and get to know her as a person. If you look at what he indicates his offerings are innocent. Such as if she doesn't want to spend time with him because she's doing homework, one of his responces was offering to show up and helping her study and bringing brian stimulating snacks.

Generally all he really wishes for is her happiness and well being. He wants to rescue her father, because he knows that is something that would make her happy. He wants to restore her father from being a mutant because he wants to make things right again. He studies her psychic powers as a way to help her understand them and control them. He wants to defeat the Kraang because he knows as long as they exist April's very existance is in danger. He sees her as a equal to him and he values her frinedship as much as he values his own family.

Yes he worries about what April and Casey could possibly be doing when they are alone, but thats just part of his fear of losing her to Casey. But he doesn't confront them about what they were doing while they were alone together because deep down he understand that April is going to make her choice over which boy she wants, and there is a good chance the choice she makes is not the one he wants to hear.

[Leo656]

Lots of those are really reaching, sorry. Especially ones with Casey acting as a "stand-in" husband/boyfriend. Get real, nobody would ever go along with that, at least no guy with even the slightest bit of self-respect. That's awful.

[Tarris Vaal]

I feel we are straying from the original question a bit.

The question was how the triangle would end right? I think we are straying onto territory that is slightly different - namely how would an April/Donatello relationship pan out and could it work?

How the relationships ultimately pan out isnt what was being asked. If April and Donatello did ever get together, then a lot of these details come into play - and while I would love to see how the writers tackle these issues (especially the societal ones) the question is how it would get to that point in the first place.


Though I have to agree with Leo656 that asking Casey to stand in as husband is very harsh on Casey (especially given the circumstances of him being part of the triangle). Though VA does make a good point about the farmhouse being a good compromise for somewhere to live and work from.

Anyway

Maybe it was just me, but I cant say that the long term ramifications of a potential relationship mattered as much as having those feelings in the first place. I'm pretty sure if two people wanted it to work, they'd find a way - I dont want to compare Don/April to Romeo/Juliet because it isnt, but R/J are at least a good example of consequences be damned.

So, to get back to the original point of contention - How would the triangle come to a conclusion within the capacity of what the show can do?

We seem to have covered the Donnie/April angle pretty well; what about Casey? Or the argument for neither of them?

[pennydreadful]

... what if Casey were also in a relationship with one of the Turtles? He and April could be each other's beards.

In all seriousness, it's a complex issue, and one that would be interesting to explore... but it won't happen in this show. I can take the presence of a DonniexApril relationship in the show as just a light-hearted thing and in the spirit in which it was intended, but this bumbling around with the triangle and no clear indication as to how she really feels about either of them (while both Casey and Donnie come on waaaaay too strong and inappropriately at times, IMO) makes for very dull viewing. It's just not entertaining or cute the way that it's being handled.

[BabyTurtles]

They should have dropped Donnie's crush on April the first season, have Donnie learn that he can't force someone to like him....yadda yadda.

Then we wouldn't have had to put up with the love triangle the second and third season.

....then Casey would be better bros with Raph instead of having this love rival srelationship with Donnie.