Do you think Raph is getting enough character/central focus?

[GoldMutant]

I caught a glimpse of something on both the Turtles Torture and Official Season 3 Information threads and something came to mind with the upcoming three episodes. We already know the first two will be time travel (bring on a SAINW! ) but then you have Attack of the Mega Shredder! Though the description is simply saying Leo is confronting Shredder again, it's hinting at something big going down for the remainder of the season.

I already assume it will involve Shredder mutating into Super Shredder or a brand new armor set like Utrom Shredder. However, as much as I want SS, I don't think it'll be until the series reaches it's final episode. If the biggest mutant threat yet is coming, what if it's TOKKA?!

You'll have to view the threads themselves to see the posts, but if Xever isn't becoming Tokka or Slash double mutating, what if briefly it's Raphael who becomes the snapping turtle mutant? It could be a potential emotional development and could be even better than the lackluster Dark Raphael. It's more of an assumption by two other users, but I think this would be a splendid idea to execute.

Also, wow we hit 200 replies now, the hothead is getting some critical love.

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

I caught a glimpse of something on both the Turtles Torture and Official Season 3 Information threads and something came to mind with the upcoming three episodes. We already know the first two will be time travel (bring on a SAINW! ) but then you have Attack of the Mega Shredder! Though the description is simply saying Leo is confronting Shredder again, it's hinting at something big going down for the remainder of the season.

I already assume it will involve Shredder mutating into Super Shredder or a brand new armor set like Utrom Shredder. However, as much as I want SS, I don't think it'll be until the series reaches it's final episode. If the biggest mutant threat yet is coming, what if it's TOKKA?!

You'll have to view the threads themselves to see the posts, but if Xever isn't becoming Tokka or Slash double mutating, what if briefly it's Raphael who becomes the snapping turtle mutant? It could be a potential emotional development and could be even better than the lackluster Dark Raphael. It's more of an assumption by two other users, but I think this would be a splendid idea to execute.

Also, wow we hit 200 replies now, the hothead is getting some critical love.

That's a pretty interesting theory. Whatever it takes to put Raph on the map I guess. I just hope it's handled really well but honestly I have very little faith. I hope I'm proven wrong.

[GoldMutant]

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

That's a pretty interesting theory. Whatever it takes to put Raph on the map I guess. I just hope it's handled really well but honestly I have very little faith. I hope I'm proven wrong.

I found the quotes my friend, they do much better explaining than me:

Originally Posted by ImmaAxolotl

Wait a minute- what if this "mutant threat" is something else. What if the Shredder's minions captured one of the turtles (my money's on Mikey or Raph, but seeing as Raph's the dude in distress this incarnation, it's probably him) and tells Leo to come to the Shredder's place alone. In an awesome one-on-one battle between Leo and Shredder (who plans on mutating himself to get stronger), the captured turtle accidently gets mutated instead, and Leo has to deal with this threat! Then again, Nick doesn't seem to be the kind to throw curveballs, so the Shredder will probably just mutate himself and Leo will just have to hightail out of there when it happens.

(season 3 thread)

Originally Posted by victory_angel

A few months ago I speculated about how Leo is shown losing his swords in Return to New York and how that can be foreshadowing the loss of Donnie and Raph.

We know we are going to get a Tokka at some point, also the Turtles are going to return to Northhampton at some point soon.

We have three New Episodes coming up before San Diego Comic Con,
The first is Turtles in Time where Renet is introduced and takes the Turtles with her to fight Savantei Ramero.

The next episode is called Legend of the Yokai, in this episode the Turtles are sent to the past to encounter Oroku Saki before he became the Shredder. (and possibly set him on the path to becoming Shredder, unintentionally of course)

And the final episode is Mega Shredder. All we know about this episode is that Leo goes to face the Shredder alone.

So given what the Shredder has done with Karai, forced Karai to do to his brothers, and the events of Legend of the Yokai. Leo probably feels that Shredder has terrorized his family long enough and decides to take matters into his own hands and defeat Shredder once and for all.

The others realize what he's up to and rush to stop him, because if he acts on his own the only thing that would happen is that he would be killed. And they don't want to nearly lose him again. (Perhaps Karai attacks the lair driving the Turtles and Splinter out into the open.)

They arrive to help and see Leo about to be struck a serious blow. Donnie pushes Leo out of the way taking the blow himself, Raph sees this and becomes enraged and fights the Shredder head on. During the fight, Raph is knocked into the mutagen and double mutated into Tokka as he's being mutated we see clips of memories fading away as his mind becomes more and more savage and feral.

The Turtles are forced to retreat with April, Casey, and Splinter to the farm house as Donnie's injuries are serious and if they aren't tended to they could lose him. Raph in the mean time is secured and mind controlled into obeying the Shredder and given the name Tokka.

In the ride to North Hampton, Mikey or Casey asks about what they are going to do about Raph. Leo says the only thing they can do. Splinter tells his son's that Donatello needs a chance to recover first.

April probably mentions that Karai and Raph know where the Lair is, they probably are destroying Donnie's lab as they speak. Mikey then mentions he conveniently grabbed the Retromutagen that Donnie had been working on, just in case they were driven out of the city.

In the mean time Karai and Tokka get to the lair with the intent on destroying it. Tokka starts destroying the lab when he sees the photo wall in there and wonders why everyone in it looks familiar.

Karai on the other hand goes to the Dojo and finds the family picture with herself as a baby. She first looks like she is going to destroy the photo, but then instead tucks it beneath her armor. Before she starts destroying everything else.

(Turtle Torture thread)

It'd be a very risky move in the end, but if Dark Raph wasn't the solution, this could be. I most certainly agree with these two that if handled correctly, the build to season 3's conclusion will be amazing, best of all the build ups and perhaps can fix some of the flaws we've witnessed of a lackluster season thus far.

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

I found the quotes my friend, they do much better explaining than me:

(season 3 thread)

(Turtle Torture thread)

It'd be a very risky move in the end, but if Dark Raph wasn't the solution, this could be. I most certainly agree with these two that if handled correctly, the build to season 3's conclusion will be amazing, best of all the build ups and perhaps can fix some of the flaws we've witnessed of a lackluster season thus far.

I doubt the writers and the producers are this smart but what if they were pushing Raph to the background and making the viewers feel like he's underappreciated for this very reason. Maybe the TMNT will also feel this and it will make more of an impact if you get what I'm saying.

[GoldMutant]

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

I doubt the writers and the producers are this smart but what if they were pushing Raph to the background and making the viewers feel like he's underappreciated for this very reason. Maybe the TMNT will also feel this and it will make more of an impact if you get what I'm saying.

I do get what you are saying Sabacooza, perhaps the idea I had to replace the plot for In Dreams could have shown this. I mostly just wanted to show the idea put to the test, the people here in the Nick thread always have great ideas to share, with victoryangel being one of them. Raphael has not had that big moment in the show yet to shine while everyone else got one great moment. I might be restating from my idea, but let's add in possible reactions by Raph.

Leo: Braving the Foot Clan by himself and nearly dying to do so. A little bit of envy to show he's not entirely the best fighter like at the beginning of the series but also respect for the brave act. He does consider Leo the best bro ever, even if Leo develops, it still glorifies him.

Donnie: The creation of retromutagen. Possible respect from Raph and if Shredder were to gain it, perhaps frustration between the teams if it were to blast someone with it that's on their side.

Mikey: Braving Dimension X. Completely shocked.

Leo and Mikey both had a character growth while Donnie had a storyline moment; perhaps Raph should follow suit with a strong story like the fellow that does machines. Maybe Raph feels so underrated compared to his family, he leaves home and joins the Mighty Mutanimals for a little bit, he battles and destroys some henchmutants or just goes solo. The team, especially Michelangelo and Casey would miss him.

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

I do get what you are saying Sabacooza, perhaps the idea I had to replace the plot for In Dreams could have shown this. I mostly just wanted to show the idea put to the test, the people here in the Nick thread always have great ideas to share, with victoryangel being one of them. Raphael has not had that big moment in the show yet to shine while everyone else got one great moment. I might be restating from my idea, but let's add in possible reactions by Raph.

Leo: Braving the Foot Clan by himself and nearly dying to do so. A little bit of envy to show he's not entirely the best fighter like at the beginning of the series but also respect for the brave act. He does consider Leo the best bro ever, even if Leo develops, it still glorifies him.

Donnie: The creation of retromutagen. Possible respect from Raph and if Shredder were to gain it, perhaps frustration between the teams if it were to blast someone with it that's on their side.

Mikey: Braving Dimension X. Completely shocked.

Leo and Mikey both had a character growth while Donnie had a storyline moment; perhaps Raph should follow suit with a strong story like the fellow that does machines. Maybe Raph feels so underrated compared to his family, he leaves home and joins the Mighty Mutanimals for a little bit, he battles and destroys some henchmutants or just goes solo. The team, especially Michelangelo and Casey would miss him.

Those are all good points and it might be a good time to add a flashback on how he got his scar. Either way, he really needs something in this season to make him shine. Maybe they'll treat him better in season 4 but I might not stick around long enough to find out.

[GoldMutant]

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

Those are all good points and it might be a good time to add a flashback on how he got his scar. Either way, he really needs something in this season to make him shine. Maybe they'll treat him better in season 4 but I might not stick around long enough to find out.

If a Tales of .... was done for Raph or Mikey (more so Mikey as he hasn't had a near death injury before) or a possible Turtle Tots episode, there is a good chance that the scar can finally be learned of. I'm honestly interested in Donatello's tooth gap for that matter as well. Even as unique features to make the characters different, I'm curious on what they have in mind.

If Dark Raphael was the nail to the coffin, the only way Raph is getting love is the imagination of the fans for the time being. We can envision our desires, but it's difficult to see them as reality. I'm hoping to create a Same As It Never Was reality with the Dark Turtles as the villains, with Raph gaining Nightwatcher armor in addition to Shredder's gauntlets. I can understand you taking your leave until you learn of any good news though.

The next three episodes seem promising for setting up Renet and whatever the finale is now, which is getting confusing. Is it enslaving the city, bringing back Karai, or simply a war? I'm curious still, but even with the Foot Clan as the focus to end this, what will be the conflict?

Then again, that's for the future, this is about the hothead not the future.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

If a Tales of .... was done for Raph or Mikey (more so Mikey as he hasn't had a near death injury before) or a possible Turtle Tots episode, there is a good chance that the scar can finally be learned of. I'm honestly interested in Donatello's tooth gap for that matter as well. Even as unique features to make the characters different, I'm curious on what they have in mind.

If Dark Raphael was the nail to the coffin, the only way Raph is getting love is the imagination of the fans for the time being. We can envision our desires, but it's difficult to see them as reality. I'm hoping to create a Same As It Never Was reality with the Dark Turtles as the villains, with Raph gaining Nightwatcher armor in addition to Shredder's gauntlets. I can understand you taking your leave until you learn of any good news though.

The next three episodes seem promising for setting up Renet and whatever the finale is now, which is getting confusing. Is it enslaving the city, bringing back Karai, or simply a war? I'm curious still, but even with the Foot Clan as the focus to end this, what will be the conflict?

Then again, that's for the future, this is about the hothead not the future.

What about Wrath of Tigerclaw? Mikey's shell was knocked loose and seems for Pizzaface (which was supposed to have originally aired after this ep as opposed to before it), seems he might've been recovering from that battle.

[GoldMutant]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

What about Wrath of Tigerclaw? Mikey's shell was knocked loose and seems for Pizzaface (which was supposed to have originally aired after this ep as opposed to before it), seems he might've been recovering from that battle.

I guess I need to be specific.

Leo- nearly killed in the Mirage Comics and 2003 series. Also here in the Invasion.

Raph- thrown through the apartment in the 1990 movie.

Donnie- mamed by a helicopter in the Image Comics and IDW comics, where

Spoiler:

he is placed in a robot body to reserve his mind.

.'

All three of the other brothers have gotten beaten to near death in previous incarnations. Mikey has suffered injuries yes, but not to near death like his brothers. I have to rewatch Wrath of Tiger Claw and Pizza Face is filler (though he appears in a cameo for Xever's race), but Mikey hasn't been put through extreme injury or close to death. Raph has only had it once with Donnie's being the most recent outside the show and Leo getting the most brutal beatings, meaning either the hothead or goofball makes sense for a Tales of... story.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

I guess I need to be specific.

Leo- nearly killed in the Mirage Comics and 2003 series. Also here in the Invasion.

Raph- thrown through the apartment in the 1990 movie.

Donnie- mamed by a helicopter in the Image Comics and IDW comics, where

Spoiler:

he is placed in a robot body to reserve his mind.

.'

All three of the other brothers have gotten beaten to near death in previous incarnations. Mikey has suffered injuries yes, but not to near death like his brothers. I have to rewatch Wrath of Tiger Claw and Pizza Face is filler (though he appears in a cameo for Xever's race), but Mikey hasn't been put through extreme injury or close to death. Raph has only had it once with Donnie's being the most recent outside the show and Leo getting the most brutal beatings, meaning either the hothead or goofball makes sense for a Tales of... story.

My mistake. I thought you were referring only to this incarnation. I didn't know you were referring to all. Sorry. ^^ In that case, yeah...a Tales story would be suitable.

Oh and for me, despite the cameo, I still felt Pizzaface was a dream....I made a post about it someplace...

Edit: Found it...

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/sho...postcount=4851

[GoldMutant]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

My mistake. I thought you were referring only to this incarnation. I didn't know you were referring to all. Sorry. ^^ In that case, yeah...a Tales story would be suitable.

Oh and for me, despite the cameo, I still felt Pizzaface was a dream....I made a post about it someplace...

Edit: Found it...

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/sho...postcount=4851

Perfectly fine. Michelangelo has been injured several times and has gotten severe beatings such as Vengeance is Mine and Slash and Destroy, but never a full out near death experience before. Perhaps this could be a change in the future.

Mikey has had the least suffering in the entirety of this show, which means I feel he should be the one getting the injury story. Perhaps if the idea of Raphael becoming Tokka happens (it is more of an assumption, not confirmed) perhaps Mikey gets his shell beaten to near death, causing a return to the farmhouse for a short while and when New York is returned to, Mikey could save his brother. Gives both of them purpose for the first time in a while and could be what Dark Raphael should have been.

Very interesting read through of Pizza Face. Anyways, just like someone said before on here, this isn't a Donatello thread and it isn't a Mikey thread, it's Raphael's and possibly how we can change things for everyone's favorite hothead.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

Perfectly fine. Michelangelo has been injured several times and has gotten severe beatings such as Vengeance is Mine and Slash and Destroy, but never a full out near death experience before. Perhaps this could be a change in the future.

Mikey has had the least suffering in the entirety of this show, which means I feel he should be the one getting the injury story. Perhaps if the idea of Raphael becoming Tokka happens (it is more of an assumption, not confirmed) perhaps Mikey gets his shell beaten to near death, causing a return to the farmhouse for a short while and when New York is returned to, Mikey could save his brother. Gives both of them purpose for the first time in a while and could be what Dark Raphael should have been.

Very interesting read through of Pizza Face. Anyways, just like someone said before on here, this isn't a Donatello thread and it isn't a Mikey thread, it's Raphael's and possibly how we can change things for everyone's favorite hothead.

Perhaps both Donnie and Mikey get hurt. Donnie gets hurt protecting Leo and Mikey gets badly injured trying to reach Raph.

Raph being Tokka doesn't remember them because he's more simple minded then he once was so he doesn't realizes what he's done.

[Tarris Vaal]

Although this is getting dangerously close to pushing this thread into speculation again.... I think that double mutating Slash into Tokka is the most logical route to go for the show;

*We know that Slash and Leo have something of a uncomfortable alliance and Leo still struggles to trust him.

*Double mutating Raph into a snapping monster would mean removing him from the hero roster temporarily (presumably).

*Tokka isn't known for conversation, which means that Raph's character development from such a scenario would be reduced to how Everyone Else reacts to him and him snarling and snapping. Arguably thats even worse for Raph than it is now.

*Raph still cares for Slash as a close friend, so losing Slash in this way would hit him quite hard.


Returning Slash to a savage villain would confirm Leo's worst suspicions, give plenty of scope for beating Donnie to a pulp (Slash has history for this after all) , give Mikey an opportunity to name the double mutated Slash without it being giving his own brother a monster name, and really hurt Raph emotionally.
Plus its yet another excuse to bring in the mutanimals.

That way, Leo and Raph have more reason to butt heads, Raph could become a major focus as he tries to deal with losing (and saving) his friend. Raph could even potentially end up leaving to join the mutanimals while Leo and Mikey stay in Northampton to protect Donnie - giving 2 simultaneous story arcs while the group is separated.


I know its just speculating, but at least this way the show doesn't 'lose' Raph to this plot development and helps hand him more focus.

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by Tarris Vaal

Although this is getting dangerously close to pushing this thread into speculation again.... I think that double mutating Slash into Tokka is the most logical route to go for the show;

*We know that Slash and Leo have something of a uncomfortable alliance and Leo still struggles to trust him.

*Double mutating Raph into a snapping monster would mean removing him from the hero roster temporarily (presumably).

*Tokka isn't known for conversation, which means that Raph's character development from such a scenario would be reduced to how Everyone Else reacts to him and him snarling and snapping. Arguably thats even worse for Raph than it is now.

*Raph still cares for Slash as a close friend, so losing Slash in this way would hit him quite hard.


Returning Slash to a savage villain would confirm Leo's worst suspicions, give plenty of scope for beating Donnie to a pulp (Slash has history for this after all) , give Mikey an opportunity to name the double mutated Slash without it being giving his own brother a monster name, and really hurt Raph emotionally.
Plus its yet another excuse to bring in the mutanimals.

That way, Leo and Raph have more reason to butt heads, Raph could become a major focus as he tries to deal with losing (and saving) his friend. Raph could even potentially end up leaving to join the mutanimals while Leo and Mikey stay in Northampton to protect Donnie - giving 2 simultaneous story arcs while the group is separated.


I know its just speculating, but at least this way the show doesn't 'lose' Raph to this plot development and helps hand him more focus.

WOW! I like this even more. Having Slash double mutated makes more sense and would give them a reason for Raph and Slash to interact again. It could be pretty emotional if done right.

[ssjup81]

Personally, I wouldn't want to see that either...Raphael in that situation of mutating (Slash makes more sense since Feldman can't be around every ep to voice him anyway), but I still feel that maybe the mind control thing may not be finished regarding him...but I could easily be wrong.

[GoldMutant]

For the most part, I did want to share the idea here.

Either route can work if executed the best way possible. Slash becoming Tokka does have potential for some development, I just thought last night it's predictable, but now I can see it working.

Again, I didn't want to spiral the thread out of control, so apologies.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

For the most part, I did want to share the idea here.

Either route can work if executed the best way possible. Slash becoming Tokka does have potential for some development, I just thought last night it's predictable, but now I can see it working.

Again, I didn't want to spiral the thread out of control, so apologies.

No, it's actually a good theory. I wouldn't mind seeing something like that myself, but hope that if they do go this route, it's definitely with Slash. Astin and Feldman need more scenes together.

[GoldMutant]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

No, it's actually a good theory. I wouldn't mind seeing something like that myself, but hope that if they do go this route, it's definitely with Slash. Astin and Feldman need more scenes together.

Considering their history with the Goonies, the interactions between Sean Astin and Cory Feldman are one of my personal favorite in the entire series. Having Tokka bring another layer to the story would be an interesting concept, perhaps causing a conflict between the MM and TMNT.

Seeing Raphael lead the Mutanimals for a little or joining is actually a really good idea, he did take part of the team for a little bit in the Archie comics too.

[yellowmario27]

Originally Posted by Foombamaroom

You're stretching. It could be argued that Leo has a big part, too: dealing with Raph. And the upsetting part is that you shouldn't have to stretch. It's completely unreasonable that people should have to watch a movie called "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" and get an hour and a half of April running around doing things.

Also, all of you people like, "OMG, RAPH GOT A LOT OF DEVELOPMENT IN THE MOVIES," let me make something VERY clear.
THE MOVIES.
ARE NOT.
RELEVANT.

Just because Raph got development in the movies DOESN'T mean he shouldn't get development in the show. No one's saying for Donnie and Leo to stop getting development all together, just give Mikey and Raph some.

yeah nowhere in my response was I saying that Raph had MAJOR focus in that movie. The turtles didn't really show up till 20 minutes into the movie, it barely felt about them. I only meant that he had more focus than the other turtles.
I know you bring up Leo, but i don't feel like watching that movie again, but it's clear that Raph was the focus of the 2014 movie compared to the others.

I think he needs more focus in the show, it's what i've said before too.

[jenna]

Mutating Raphael into Tokka is not something I want to see. Raphael has so far turned into a Kraang, a flower, a turkey... Am I forgetting one? Can we please just have a Raph-centric episode without him having to turn into something or someone? Surely he could undergo some development just as "Raphael". None of the other turtles have to turn into something to get development.