Official Ep Discussion: S3 Ep23: "The Fourfold Trap"

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by Ninjinister

http://images.wikia.com/tmnt/images/a/ab/Venuslying.jpg

Ha, I wondered if that was a direct Venus De Milo reference. The pose is spot on!

Originally Posted by Purple Kraken

Honestly, I am really worried. What if the show starts to flanderize Splinter? Before season two, Splinter never showed stereotypical rat traits at all. After season two, however, it started to show...forcefully. It seems like the writers are doing this to both lighten the show and meet Nickelodeon's standards of what is deemed acceptable for entertainment. Again, I am worried.

Oh, I find it funny to see how Splinter is doing all the rodent things with a dignified straight face. From an in-universe sense, I suppose it would make a little sense since he spent a few months in a feral mentality before the Return to New York episode.

[MikeandRaph87]

Not sure why people are not crazy about this episode. It actually accomplished something. It was like Baxter's gambit, but designed to pray on the turtles' individual strengths. It also proves my personal compliant of having too many henchmen with Bebop, Rocksteady, Razhar/Dogpound, Fishface, Tiger Claw, and Baxter who is off-screen not to mention Karai's off and on association. Four henchmen for four turtles is all that is needed. Hope to get a solid wrap up to the season.

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by Luckyday

We're talking about a guy who has a cheese phone and eats frozen cheese as a treat.

Maybe. But it's kinda jarring actually, in that it's coming off as heavily cartoonish from a guy who is supposed to be mostly serious. I can believe him mourning his humanity. I can believe him acting like a rat when he went crazy or the Rat King has heavy control of his mind. They both fit together. But when he's missing being human, missing his daughter, we see him with Tang Shen and his baby daughter in the time travel episode, and then we see him acting like a cartoon rat with a cheese phone, giant hamster wheel, eating frozen cheese, I can't take his character seriously anymore. Plus it kind of validates Shredder's scorn whenever he comments on Splinter being nothing but a rat anymore, it is supposed to be a degrading and dehumanizing insult, not something that gets validated and confirmed instead.

Originally Posted by Purple Kraken

Honestly, I am really worried. What if the show starts to flanderize Splinter? Before season two, Splinter never showed stereotypical rat traits at all. After season two, however, it started to show...forcefully. It seems like the writers are doing this to both lighten the show and meet Nickelodeon's standards of what is deemed acceptable for entertainment. Again, I am worried.

You're not the only one. It's part of the reason i have been slowly giving up on this show, it's because they've been slowly making the mutant characters act like cartoonish animals instead of people trapped in mutated bodies. It's why I always thought the Rat King episodes and Crazy!Splinter packed a powerful deep punch, it showed him being influenced by his mutation but not in a cartoonish way. And it's the same with the rest. When you see mutated people struggling to keep what's left of their humanity, it's pretty deep. From Bradford not wanting to be called 'dog' to Baxter crying as he watches the mutagen drip down his body, and then seeing the show treat Anton and Ivan's impending mutation almost as if it was an execution, gosh is all of that thought provoking. Not so when they act like cartoon animals and it contradicts the serious way they were portrayed prior. And you are right, the cartoonishness is forceful. It doesn't fit, at least not with this Splinter. Maybe if he had been an ordinary rat before mutation and the show didn't have as many serious elements like it does, it could work. Instead the goofiness is creepy instead of funny, and jarring because it's not him joking around or poking fun at himself, but him acting like a cartoon rat in a 100% 'serious' manner.

[Powder]

I think the animal callbacks are perfectly in the spirit of TMNT despite being unique to this universe. For me, it feels right, & I think it's a great/harmless way to get laughs & lighten things up in order to skirt by with the dark material.

[CyberCubed]

Are people seriously complaining about the hamster wheel? For god sakes its a JOKE. Its a humor gag like the cheese phone. And people are complaining about Splinter being "flanderized?" WTF?

Some of you have become a parody of yourself. Enjoy the damn show and its "sight gags" and stop taking everything so seriously. For god sakes.

[Wildcat]

I enjoyed this episode but it furthered my previous complaint that so many storylines are directly based on something else...here being the SAW movies. Which would have fit better with Baxter Stockman.

I too thought the giant wheel was ridiculous. In a bad way. It was funny but for the wrong reason. It's like NOW they wanna stick in this gag? The cheese phone wasn't even clever. Just a phone. No pun or funny shape.

It was cool seeing that toilet thing from the old toy line. Which was actually always pretty gross cause like you know...ooze is probably not the first thing Shredder or the mutants would wanna do to the turtles trapped under a toilet.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by Metalwolf

Maybe. But it's kinda jarring actually, in that it's coming off as heavily cartoonish from a guy who is supposed to be mostly serious. I can believe him mourning his humanity. I can believe him acting like a rat when he went crazy or the Rat King has heavy control of his mind. They both fit together. But when he's missing being human, missing his daughter, we see him with Tang Shen and his baby daughter in the time travel episode, and then we see him acting like a cartoon rat with a cheese phone, giant hamster wheel, eating frozen cheese, I can't take his character seriously anymore. Plus it kind of validates Shredder's scorn whenever he comments on Splinter being nothing but a rat anymore, it is supposed to be a degrading and dehumanizing insult, not something that gets validated and confirmed instead.

It's getting harder to take Shredder seriously. If taking away the voice actor, he's a one dimensional saturday morning cartoon villain. His motivation to kill Splinter is paper thin and grossly delusional to a point of insanity. He's idea of running a organization is to growl orders and beat his henchmen up until something works rather then him coming with a plan to do them. He's more a intimidating enforcer then a ruler that runs a tight ship. Sure he wants things but he'll knows jack **** on how to keep them in line.

He's like a toddler that whines of wanting a puppy and then gets bored with after a month.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by Luckyday

It's getting harder to take Shredder seriously. If taking away the voice actor, he's a one dimensional saturday morning cartoon villain. His motivation to kill Splinter is paper thin and grossly delusional to a point of insanity. He's idea of running a organization is to growl orders and beat his henchmen up until something works rather then him coming with a plan to do them. He's more a intimidating enforcer then a ruler that runs a tight ship. Sure he wants things but he'll knows jack **** on how to keep them in line.

He's like a toddler that whines of wanting a puppy and then gets bored with after a month.

In my opinion, Shredder hasn't had a multi-dimensional personality since the Fred Wolf series. Sure, he was the quintessential Saturday morning cartoon villain there too, but at least he enjoyed some of life's little pleasures like porcelain collecting and chillaxing in fine hotel suites on somebody else's expense.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

but at least he enjoyed some of life's little pleasures like porcelain collecting and chillaxing in fine hotel suites on somebody else's expense.

Which is a shame for this one, because isn't he sort of some rich guy or was? When we first saw him in this series he looked like he's sitting in some expensive highrise office and was like, "Ready my jet, I'm going to NYC."

He could have rubbed that in Splinter's face by living it up while in NYC, while Splinter is stuck in the sewers, and having more than one bad guy thing going for him.

[JH24]

It was an interesting episode with some nice developments. Of course Healing Hands had to be the solution again but I guess it was okay. I would have preferred Donnie finding a solution though.

It was nice seeing Splinter in action again. The episode was alright, but not one of my favorites.

One thing I found somewhat disturbing is that Karai seriously has a cruel streak inside of her. Something she showed earlier at times in the series. Those traps were pure torture and she enjoyed every moment of it. I don't think the brain worm can be blamed for that part of her behavior.

I mean, if you want to lure Splinter to your hideout, tying and/or locking the turtles up would have been convincing enough for Splinter to fight her, but she had to go that extra mile.

[ssjup81]

Well, I'm out sick today, so I was able to watch the episode. All I can say is wow! I really really liked it! Loved the villains for this one, especially Xever kissing up to Karai and Bradford calling him out on it and Bebop and Rocksteady talking about the name of Mikey's trap. lol

I truly enjoyed the beginning, seeing how stressed out Donnie was and how he finally kind of snapped when Leo was telling him to try harder. Kinda reminded md of the OT episode Donatelo's Duplicate when he created a duplicate of himself because he'd gotten tired of the othe three always wanting or needing him to do or fix something. I like how all four were arguing. You could really feel how upset they all were, imo. Find it interesting how their feelings are...

Leo: We can't give up!
Donnie: In the middle. Don't want to give up, but knows it's not out of the realm of possibility of thigns turning out that way.
Raph: Feels it's a lost cause.
Mikey: Same as Leo.

Just found that interesting. The way Karai tricked them all was nice too, but I still wish that the key to getting out of all four traps would've been more connected...but given both Mikey and Donnie's traps, I just couldn't see it being that way.

Oh speaking of traps....Mikey's. I dunno....I think that's some foreshadowing there. Once agasin, double mutation was mentioned. Mikey's the first of them to witness a double mutation and this is the second time he's been almost double mutated. That can't be a coincidence. Oh, also thought it was funny how Mikey was worried about becoming Venus. lol I also wonder if his, "If I were an evil villain" line is going to mean something later on too...

Mikey removing Donnie's helmet was funny. He said he's been playing a ton of puzzle games on his T-phone (very very interesting)....but hat really wasn't much of a puzzle to solve. He just withstood the electricity.

As for Splinter (found it hilarious that he was swalking in that wheel...very strange) and Karai....very nice fight and I'm glad the brainworm is gone, but...I have this feeling that Splinter's healing hands didn't actually cause her to spit outthe worm if Raph and Rockwell are any indication. Leo had to get to Raph emotionally just as Donnie did with Rockwell. Splinter told Karai, "I love you"...so I think that played more of a part than the healing hands thing.

Now that the worm is gone, though, I'm looking forward to Karai getting back at Shredder. You know, they should probably mention some kind of long-term effect from having worms in the brain. lol

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Some of you have become a parody of yourself.

I can't even....

[darthwahl56]

Originally Posted by PangolinFeets

At least now we'll get a cool Karai reunion episode, which I'm excited for.

And the episode was pretty badass. Mikey's mutagen machine was straight from an 87 episode, right?

It was called the flushomatic and it was also a toy. Sounds like something from Rocko's Modern Life. Here are 3 pictures and a youtube post for the original toy commercial.







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YquR3BNa1U

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

In my opinion, Shredder hasn't had a multi-dimensional personality since the Fred Wolf series. Sure, he was the quintessential Saturday morning cartoon villain there too, but at least he enjoyed some of life's little pleasures like porcelain collecting and chillaxing in fine hotel suites on somebody else's expense.

Yep, I agree with everything here. James Avery played the most enjoyable version of Shredder.

[ssjup81]

I actually remember that toy. I never had turtle toys as a kid, but I do recall that one vaguely.

[VaughnMichael]

I liked this one and can say honestly it's one of the few I think I'd enjoy watching again.
I loved the humor in this one and the Flush-O-Matic was a nice touch.
I'm glad Karai finally has that stupid brain worm out of her.
I hope she comes to her senses and realizes who's who and what's what.
Did we get to see what happened to Mr. Murakami?
We had been shown that the others had been holograms but I can't recall if he was shown again or if they used a brain worm on him or what was going on there.
Also I believe Splinter took Fishfaces breathing apparatus, so I have to wonder what happened to him as well.
I really loved Ice Cream Kitty in this episode and even the silly dialog.
Like I said to Brandon on face book I really am hoping for Mikey to get a second stage mutation as we've seen the other 3 brothers be the focus of it in other incarnations of the TMNT.
Last but not least I have to wonder what Shredder & Baxter had been up to the entire time the other bad guys set this all up.
He's going to be super ticket when he finds out what happened to Karai.

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I can't even....

ahahahahahaha

[Groverman62]

Purple Kraken and Metalwolf you guys are taking this too seriously. The wheel the cheese phone and the sickle are all just jokes. Not only that but Splinter still has his humanity, didnt you see how sad he was when Karai fell down the drain. Feeling that she may be gone for good?

And Wolf how long how youve been slowly giving up on the show?

[DarkLightDragon]

Some people here are dissapointed the 'unknown' enemy turned out to be Karai, but I was more dissapointed that the healing mantra was what cured her afterall. Really makes the previous two episodes a waste of this one plot-point of getting a brain worm if this episode is just going to open with "Oh gee, not even close to getting it right, too bad, she's a goner now." Really? After all that the writers just decided with "Nah, that'd be too convenient, so let's go with something that was already convenient!" *facepalm*

While seeing her upchuck that brain worm was satisfying in that she's now a free agent again, it's also annoying she's yet again conveniently separated from both parties for the time being so she'll be yet again be someone/something for the good and bad guys to fight over. Though Splinter tips off they may not see her again, so maybe they won't be as keen in finding like before.

But other than those two things, it was a good episode. I certainly didn't blame Donnie for snapping back at Leo when he should know as well as Don he is trying his best, but Leo is still just so obsessed with Karai to know he was being way too pushy with him in that instance.

[TurFlytle]

Originally Posted by shredder orokusaki

GRRRRRR!!! THOSE FREAKS!!!! I WILL PUNISH ALL OF MY HENCHMEN FOR THEIR FAILURE!! ENOUGH!! THOSE IDIOTS!!!

Good episode but if Splinter wasnt there then the tutrtles would had been defeated. It shows that my henchmen when they are fighting together as a team they can defeat evry enemy

WHY ARE YOU USING CAPS LOCKS AND EXCLAMATION POINTS?!!! IT IS REALLY ANNOYING!!! Also, I'll make you forget that you're RPing as Shredder. *uses Men In Black mind eraser*

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by DarkLightDragon

Some people here are dissapointed the 'unknown' enemy turned out to be Karai, but I was more dissapointed that the healing mantra was what cured her afterall. Really makes the previous two episodes a waste of this one plot-point of getting a brain worm if this episode is just going to open with "Oh gee, not even close to getting it right, too bad, she's a goner now." Really? After all that the writers just decided with "Nah, that'd be too convenient, so let's go with something that was already convenient!" *facepalm*

While seeing her upchuck that brain worm was satisfying in that she's now a free agent again, it's also annoying she's yet again conveniently separated from both parties for the time being so she'll be yet again be someone/something for the good and bad guys to fight over. Though Splinter tips off they may not see her again, so maybe they won't be as keen in finding like before.

But other than those two things, it was a good episode. I certainly didn't blame Donnie for snapping back at Leo when he should know as well as Don he is trying his best, but Leo is still just so obsessed with Karai to know he was being way too pushy with him in that instance.

Hm, I personally feel that Splinter's "I love you" is what kinda helped her to ditch the worms, not necessarily the healing mantra. We saw how Leo and Donnie dealt with Raph and Rockwell...they played into their emotions by egging them on.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

I actually remember that toy. I never had turtle toys as a kid, but I do recall that one vaguely.

You mean you had the Flushomatic, or just saw a TV commercial?

I never liked the original Flushomatic, thinking it looked too much like the stupid Slimepit from Heman (Hordak trying to brainwash Heman worked, but having his body covered with slime when fighting Skeletor was just stupid!) but doing other things. But now it had been some years, so seeing the new one worked well.

Tigerclaw is badass as usual, my favourite part was him using jetpack equipment. One of the best episodes of this season!