Official Ep Discussion: S3 Ep23: "The Fourfold Trap"

[GoldMutant]

I think by rewatching the episode I did have a few problems, barring it going into an extra episode. The following were in my mind:

1. Why not open with all the Turtles in a trap and go back and forth between flashback and the actual events leading up to Splinter saving the day? Spectacular Spider-Man did this before with the episode called Subtext, going between the origin of Molten Man and the current time with Spidey trying to save everyone from what MM did. I won't spoil it if anyone never saw the episode, just because it felt like Raph bashing again in this series.

2. I'm grateful that Splinter saved Karai, it's how I wanted to end this mind control arc to see father save daughter. Even with Karai controlled, why couldn't Splinter use emotion, like a hug or something similar to Raph and Mikey in the Invasion. Or, do something like the Dark Raph episode with freeing everyone barring Slash? The healing hands I'm happy for a payoff, but it feels a bit of a cop out yet again.

Probably just grasping to find flaws, but I still feel there's some mispotential in the episode.

[xenopokemon]

Originally Posted by kelligrafie

The Brain Worms look like some relative of the Kraagathathehrnan whatever they're called.

And mutagen is essentially the milk they produce to feed their young, so if they are related, I doubt Brain Worms could or would mutate. It would probably just be a form of nourishment for them.

I feel like this is sordid fan fiction material so I'll leave it there.

The Kraathatrogon are residents of Dimension X, everything in Dimension X is immune to mutagen if I remember correctly. The Mind Controlling Worms are products of Baxter Stockman, and in theory, could be mutated. They definitely are not too small, as we have seen squirrels and cockroaches being mutated. IF one were to mutate, I'm pretty sure it would become a giant sentient worm capable of large-scale mind control and being able to feed off the memories of its prey. And voiced by Morgan Freeman.

Originally Posted by kelligrafie

People get disappointed because they see the previews and guess what happens, usually this is what they WANT to happen (which isn't the same as an outright prediction) and they convince themselves that this is what WILL happen.

Then when it doesn't play out that/their way, they claim they've been let down. This has been happening a lot recently.

Maybe, and I don't mean this rudely, but why don't people try avoiding episode descriptions and previews and you will probably enjoy the episodes a lot more when you go in 'blind'. That works for me. If you don't stake so much on the episode, you have less room to be 'disappointed'.
.

Well, sometimes we gotta have high hopes . Besides, it said "The Turtles are battled by an unknown enemy." Then we see Karai and the Goon Squad, enemies we have seen multiple times. It should have been someone we haven't seen/talked about for a while. Please fans. Then again, it can be argued that the wrapping up of a story arc can also please fans. Either way, some fans gotta be pleased.

[THGhost]

This has to be my favourite episode of this season so far. The staging was perfect; reminded me a lot of the movie Cube.
Mikey playing with Ice Cream Kitty was so adorable ^_^
Yet again, the animation looks even better than before. I don't know how Nick keeps doing it.

[DVD]

Gotta be honest and say this was the first episode of the three seasons that I do not care for.
There was the obvious Cube 'homage'. Waking up to a confused situation!! I preferred the 2K3 "wake up in a very nasty predicament" at the beginning of an episode (I won't spoil it in case you haven't seen it).
After that it was all just a little bit dull, lacking in anything of interest or even humour. Sorry, but this simply didn't work for me at all.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by DVD

Gotta be honest and say this was the first episode of the three seasons that I do not care for.
There was the obvious Cube 'homage'. Waking up to a confused situation!! I preferred the 2K3 "wake up in a very nasty predicament" at the beginning of an episode (I won't spoil it in case you haven't seen it).
After that it was all just a little bit dull, lacking in anything of interest or even humour. Sorry, but this simply didn't work for me at all.

What are your thoughts on Tale of the Yokai?

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by DVD

Gotta be honest and say this was the first episode of the three seasons that I do not care for.
There was the obvious Cube 'homage'. Waking up to a confused situation!! I preferred the 2K3 "wake up in a very nasty predicament" at the beginning of an episode (I won't spoil it in case you haven't seen it).
After that it was all just a little bit dull, lacking in anything of interest or even humour. Sorry, but this simply didn't work for me at all.

This is how I felt about the Yokai ep....

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

This is how I felt about the Yokai ep....

Same. Which only made me a little curious in asking in what ways did Tales of Yokai did right to him?

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by groddofwar

What if those worms mutate into wyrm?

I would love that!

[Bitsy83]

Once again, came in late after seeing ep.

Well, I guess my OC prediction didn't come true either, not that I was expecting it to, but at least I was right about the Saw refs and the villain being female. Though honestly my biggest fear was that this whole thing would've been a dream or hallucination. Like, when Donnie was trying to make the serum cure and it backfired that somehow the fumes from it would've caused one of them, maybe Splinter to go into a dream like state where he saw his sons in trouble and...yeah, you see where I'm going with this. Unless it's done really well, I hate those "just a dream/illusion" cop out endings.

I really like how we finally see Donnie snap at Leo about "having all the answers" and getting fed up with finding a solution. Vic Angel and I predicted that back in season 2, so it's nice to see it, even if it was just a small part of a bigger argument. It can't be easy for the smart guy to be expected to constantly have all the answers at the blink of an eye. I hope this gets addressed again in the future.

As for Karai....I have tried SO hard to keep a positive, open mind about her mutation. I really thought it was going to lead to Donnie being kidnapped and forced to cure her or that she would use her snake powers against Shredder, but they just keep stretching out her arc. I think Raph's right: Karai IS a lost cause at this point.

True, she got her human form back thanks to Stockman, but we saw how Shredder was like pumping mind worms into her and I have this feeling that she's going through a huge mental break down. Just because she got rid of the worm doesn't mean there weren't any lasting effects. Her whole life is one big mental and emotional roller coaster. I don't think the writers would go this way, but I seriously think Karai is going to go crazy now. She won't know what's real or what isn't; her snake instincts will be unpredictable and dangerous to be around; she might still have feelings for Shredder or is too obsessed with killing him to care about reuniting with her father and the Turtles. There's just too much baggage on her now to wrap it all up with a "Deus Ex Machina," even though the writers love using that.

Which brings me to yet another possible prediction of how they could wrap up the Karai arc. I'm gonna piss off a lot of people with this, but I'm certain it won't turn out this way and will probably end up with her being returned to normal and good blah blah blah.

So...we were introduced to Renet and the Time Masters earlier this season. This might actually play a part in later. Remember how Savanti Romero was able to create those time loops and stuff with the scepter? What if Shredder discovers the scepter as well and tries to use it to his advantage? Maybe he wants to go back and stop the Foot clan from being destroyed or figures a way to stop time so he can alter it to his will? Well, the Turtles try to stop him while Karai is still going all coo-coo crazy and attacking Shredder. Maybe during this big hullabaloo, the scepter gets fractured and starts to fire time blasts at random. At one point, the blast hits Karai and she starts to rapidly age backwards. When it stops, she's gone back to being an infant.

Before I go on, she wouldn't be a snake infant. What the scepter will do would be to lock her in a time bubble and rewind all the physical changes her body went through all her life. It'd be like watching a butterfly turn back into a caterpillar.

The Turtles and Renet manage to stop the Scepter and cease it's firing and Shredder gets away (or dies, I dunno). Leo begs Renet to turn Karai back, but Renet says that she can't age Karai again because it'd be too dangerous for a person to go through an aging process twice (or something like that). Leo is devastated because he feels he once again failed Karai and Splinter until Donnie points out that this might be a good thing.

Karai was taken away from her father at such a young age. She live her entire life believing that Shredder was her father and that Splinter was her enemy. Even though she eventually accepted the truth, she still had all the lessons and anger Shredder had taught her. She even said herself that her whole life was surrounded by "anger and revenge." You don't just let those emotions go that easily. Also, even though Splinter loves Karai, he doesn't really know her all that well. Even Tang Shen mentioned how he was more concerned with keeping the Hamato Clan alive than being a father to Miwa. If Karai reverts back to a baby, then it gives him a second chance to know his daughter again and this time, she can grow up to be the person she was always meant to be: Hamato Miwa. She'll be free of all the anger and pain that Shredder filled her head with and she can grow up as a normal human girl.

Now, people you guys break out the hangman's noose, I HIGHLY doubt this is gonna happen. I'm sure Karai will join the Mutanimals or maybe venture on her own path or something will miraculously cure her and we get a "Deus Ex Machina" as well. Then again, my idea is pretty "Deus Ex Machina" too, so I guess whatever the writers choose, it'll end up like that. But it would be sweet to see the Turtles trying to take care of a baby. And something tells me Casey would teach them how to change a diaper since he has a baby sister.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by Bitsy83

Once again, came in late after seeing ep.

Well, I guess my OC prediction didn't come true either, not that I was expecting it to, but at least I was right about the Saw refs and the villain being female. Though honestly my biggest fear was that this whole thing would've been a dream or hallucination. Like, when Donnie was trying to make the serum cure and it backfired that somehow the fumes from it would've caused one of them, maybe Splinter to go into a dream like state where he saw his sons in trouble and...yeah, you see where I'm going with this. Unless it's done really well, I hate those "just a dream/illusion" cop out endings.

I really like how we finally see Donnie snap at Leo about "having all the answers" and getting fed up with finding a solution. Vic Angel and I predicted that back in season 2, so it's nice to see it, even if it was just a small part of a bigger argument. It can't be easy for the smart guy to be expected to constantly have all the answers at the blink of an eye. I hope this gets addressed again in the future.

As for Karai....I have tried SO hard to keep a positive, open mind about her mutation. I really thought it was going to lead to Donnie being kidnapped and forced to cure her or that she would use her snake powers against Shredder, but they just keep stretching out her arc. I think Raph's right: Karai IS a lost cause at this point.

True, she got her human form back thanks to Stockman, but we saw how Shredder was like pumping mind worms into her and I have this feeling that she's going through a huge mental break down. Just because she got rid of the worm doesn't mean there weren't any lasting effects. Her whole life is one big mental and emotional roller coaster. I don't think the writers would go this way, but I seriously think Karai is going to go crazy now. She won't know what's real or what isn't; her snake instincts will be unpredictable and dangerous to be around; she might still have feelings for Shredder or is too obsessed with killing him to care about reuniting with her father and the Turtles. There's just too much baggage on her now to wrap it all up with a "Deus Ex Machina," even though the writers love using that.

Which brings me to yet another possible prediction of how they could wrap up the Karai arc. I'm gonna piss off a lot of people with this, but I'm certain it won't turn out this way and will probably end up with her being returned to normal and good blah blah blah.

So...we were introduced to Renet and the Time Masters earlier this season. This might actually play a part in later. Remember how Savanti Romero was able to create those time loops and stuff with the scepter? What if Shredder discovers the scepter as well and tries to use it to his advantage? Maybe he wants to go back and stop the Foot clan from being destroyed or figures a way to stop time so he can alter it to his will? Well, the Turtles try to stop him while Karai is still going all coo-coo crazy and attacking Shredder. Maybe during this big hullabaloo, the scepter gets fractured and starts to fire time blasts at random. At one point, the blast hits Karai and she starts to rapidly age backwards. When it stops, she's gone back to being an infant.

Before I go on, she wouldn't be a snake infant. What the scepter will do would be to lock her in a time bubble and rewind all the physical changes her body went through all her life. It'd be like watching a butterfly turn back into a caterpillar.

The Turtles and Renet manage to stop the Scepter and cease it's firing and Shredder gets away (or dies, I dunno). Leo begs Renet to turn Karai back, but Renet says that she can't age Karai again because it'd be too dangerous for a person to go through an aging process twice (or something like that). Leo is devastated because he feels he once again failed Karai and Splinter until Donnie points out that this might be a good thing.

Karai was taken away from her father at such a young age. She live her entire life believing that Shredder was her father and that Splinter was her enemy. Even though she eventually accepted the truth, she still had all the lessons and anger Shredder had taught her. She even said herself that her whole life was surrounded by "anger and revenge." You don't just let those emotions go that easily. Also, even though Splinter loves Karai, he doesn't really know her all that well. Even Tang Shen mentioned how he was more concerned with keeping the Hamato Clan alive than being a father to Miwa. If Karai reverts back to a baby, then it gives him a second chance to know his daughter again and this time, she can grow up to be the person she was always meant to be: Hamato Miwa. She'll be free of all the anger and pain that Shredder filled her head with and she can grow up as a normal human girl.

Now, people you guys break out the hangman's noose, I HIGHLY doubt this is gonna happen. I'm sure Karai will join the Mutanimals or maybe venture on her own path or something will miraculously cure her and we get a "Deus Ex Machina" as well. Then again, my idea is pretty "Deus Ex Machina" too, so I guess whatever the writers choose, it'll end up like that. But it would be sweet to see the Turtles trying to take care of a baby. And something tells me Casey would teach them how to change a diaper since he has a baby sister.

^Honestly anything can happen when it comes to Karai although it's almost back square one with her. All I hoping that they don't go with the most laziest writing decision when it comes to Karai. Like "You know a lesser show would do that but we're not those people" said writer of Rick and Morty.

[Bitsy83]

Originally Posted by Luckyday

^Honestly anything can happen when it comes to Karai although it's almost back square one with her. All I hoping that they don't go with the most laziest writing decision when it comes to Karai. Like "You know a lesser show would do that but we're not those people" said writer of Rick and Morty.

Um.... I don't watch that show. Could you please elaborate? And why does Rick keep belching? (I've watched only one or two clips, plus the Simpsons opening they did).

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by Bitsy83

Um.... I don't watch that show. Could you please elaborate? And why does Rick keep belching? (I've watched only one or two clips, plus the Simpsons opening they did).

Because Rick is a beer alcoholic but once you can get past that, he's one of the most fascinating character on that show.

Other then being a science fiction animated show with loads of dark comedy and some drama, Rick and Morty is a really deep and introspective show that always thinks outside the box. In the most recent example of their creativity, episode starts with a very generic monster of the week sort of plot or at least that is what a lesser uninspiring show would've done as a center focus of the episode but instead the show like "Nope " and resolve "the plot" rather quickly. Instead it centers around Rick quickly becoming addicted to being a high spirited teenage clone of himself and the highs of being the most popular guy at his grandkid's high school, but meanwhile and because he has a teenager brain that is fuel driven by peer pressure and emotionally unable to deal with negative emotion like thinking of death, ignores that his real body is slowly dying in a vat somewhere at home in the garage.

[kelligrafie]

Has it ever occurred to anyone that MAYBE the team making the show and the team that is responsible for promoting the episode aren't actually the same team?

We've all seen headlines in newspapers that were misleading and had nothing really to do with the story.

The promo team have to make sure the episodes are watched by as many people as possible so they probably write these descriptions in a way to catch your attention, but they don't necessarily, accurately reflect the episode in full (or barely).

So maybe you're aiming your complaints at the wrong people. Pretty sure Ciro and Brandon aren't responsible for writing some three line bit on a website about what goes on in every episode.

[oldmanwinters]

Haven't read this thread, but has anyone raised the question as to how Karai was able to get the numbers to the Turtles' communicators and Splinter's Cheesephone? I guess it would make sense if she just calls the numbers from the phones of the Turtles she captures (Donatello's first, then Michelangelo's), but in order to start the cycle, Karai needed to fake a call to Donatello from April's phone (came up on the called ID, didn't it?) and April wasn't captured until last with Leo and Raph.

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

Haven't read this thread, but has anyone raised the question as to how Karai was able to get the numbers to the Turtles' communicators and Splinter's Cheesephone? I guess it would make sense if she just calls the numbers from the phones of the Turtles she captures (Donatello's first, then Michelangelo's), but in order to start the cycle, Karai needed to fake a call to Donatello from April's phone (came up on the called ID, didn't it?) and April wasn't captured until last with Leo and Raph.

She said she got Baxter to hack there phones or something.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

She said she got Baxter to hack there phones or something.

Thanks! I must have missed that detail. That dirty fly...

[IronBoomer]

Honestly, aside from stretching out the Karai arc again; I have few problems with this episode. It moved the plot along, we got to see natural tension between the brothers (and finally someone other than Raph standing up to Leo), and seeing Splinter in the field is always a treat.
And not just because he just walked through all of Shredder's goons like a boss.

If given one thing to change, I'd rather have seen the boys work out how to escape from their traps on their own a little more, and maybe a little more plot about them (even if I had a good lolz at Mikey being trapped in a G1 toy and renaming it "The Dump of Doom").

I'd also like to have seen April kick a little more butt on her own, but that's being nitpicky. I'm almost surprised Splinter didn't call Casey in for backup.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

You mean you had the Flushomatic, or just saw a TV commercial?

I never liked the original Flushomatic, thinking it looked too much like the stupid Slimepit from Heman (Hordak trying to brainwash Heman worked, but having his body covered with slime when fighting Skeletor was just stupid!) but doing other things. But now it had been some years, so seeing the new one worked well.

Tigerclaw is badass as usual, my favourite part was him using jetpack equipment. One of the best episodes of this season!

I never had any turtle toys as a kid, but I remember this one from the commercials.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by IronBoomer

Honestly, aside from stretching out the Karai arc again; I have few problems with this episode. It moved the plot along, we got to see natural tension between the brothers (and finally someone other than Raph standing up to Leo), and seeing Splinter in the field is always a treat.
And not just because he just walked through all of Shredder's goons like a boss.

If given one thing to change, I'd rather have seen the boys work out how to escape from their traps on their own a little more, and maybe a little more plot about them (even if I had a good lolz at Mikey being trapped in a G1 toy and renaming it "The Dump of Doom").

I'd also like to have seen April kick a little more butt on her own, but that's being nitpicky. I'm almost surprised Splinter didn't call Casey in for backup.

That's how most people feels about this episode. "It just one thing" and that one thing is different for everybody but somehow this feel really close being the perfect episode. Most episodes to me are okay like the recent new one that's online but because the pacing of the episode feels too quick to expect.

Still this was one great awesome episode and mostly because of the atmosphere which feels really intense.

Still really bum about Karai. I wonder where writer's mindset is currently on her. Like would the idea of Karai trying adjust her new life with the turtles would sound interesting in theory but not so much in execution or when it's finally happening on screen so maybe that's why been post pone so much right now.

[ssjup81]

Personally, I wouldn't want Karai to join the Turtles and act on her complete own. As for now, though, I'd want her to try getting revenge on Shredder. She did cough up that one worm, but what happened to the other ones that Shredder was pumping her with in the ep before it?

Hm, I also wouldn't mind it if she went after the Turtles and Shredder. When she was first mutated, I was wondering if they were going to set her up where she wouldn't be able to distinguish her enemy from her allies since the last two things she saw before being mutated were Leo (a Turtle) and Shredder. I was kind of banking on something like that happening....but doesn't seem very likely now.