Official Episode Discussion S4 Ep 8:The War for Dimension X

[plastroncafe]

But by your logic it shouldn't be allowed at all.
It's okay to be NoRomo, Cube.

[Bitsy83]

Welp. This was certainly more...affectionate than I was anticipating. I'd have assumed that Mona Lisa would've just hugged Raph and then gone gung-ho into battle while Raph is trying to get her attention or show off or...something.

After reading the comments, there are so many things to address and voice my opinion on, I'm not sure where to start. Well, I guess I'll get the smaller topics out of the way.

Utrom Council: Awesome. I'm glad Cassandra Peterson got to come back and get a bigger role instead of just being Mrs. Campbell. I guess the reason why they modeled their suits after humans was due to the fact that the Utrom had to disguise themselves in order to stop Kraang, but his numbers kept growing over time. Bishop did design the Norman suit, so it makes sense that the other members of council designed their suits as well. As for Irma, nice to see the fans go their wish...kinda. Hey, she was good this time! Though I can't help but feel having her head explode like that was sort of a middle finger to the fans who kept whining to have her back. I liked Irma too and felt her being Subprime was a bit of a cop-out, but what was done was done. I didn't need to see anymore of her. Other than that, I'm glad they're working in the peaceful Utrom arc.

Kraang Sub-prime being annoying: Well, DUH!!! For pete's sake, it's Gilbert Gottfried! He's not exactly a Shakespearean actor, guys. Even if they gave him the speech from "The King's Speech," it would've sounded atrocious. I think Sub-prime was always supposed to be this annoying, bratty character anyway, so it makes sense for his taunting to be stupid. So I honestly wasn't that phased. Aside from his role as Iago, anything Gottfried does is annoying and mind-numbingly painful.

Raph and Mona:

Woo boy....knew I should've started on this earlier in the day. Ok, time to make some enemies.

I think it's fine. Was I expecting such a strong, lovey-dovey thing? Course not, but it is nice to see a side of Raph that isn't sarcastic or angry or sarcastically angry. I know people think this is "OOC" for him and I can see their point, but how do we know that acting goofy around a girl wasn't meant to be part of his character? Because he teased his bothers for the same reason? I'm sure he wasn't expecting it to happen. There have been lots of times where I see someone acting a certain way (for example, getting upset over something trivial) and I say to myself "Ok, that will NEVER happen to me." Then something trivial happens and what do I do? Act exactly like that person I witnessed, maybe even more so. We tend to be hypocritical more than we expect to.

As for the "rushed romance:" You call it pandering to the fans, I call it giving the babies their bottles. You really think the writers and artists haven't seen the fan art and fiction all over the internet, including Tumblr? Peter DiCicco, one of the main writers, has a Tumblr account so I'm sure he's come across a few, INCLUDING Ramona stuff.

For the last three seasons, these guys have been getting emails, tweets, posts, and live questions asking about what sort of love interests the turtles will have. And they've only been getting more nagging the further we get into the series. I remember coming across lots of posts about how horrible the romance is on the show, even though it's not intended to be a romantic comedy. April's been too vague about whether she likes Donnie more than Casey; Leo and Karai has been nothing but a tease; Mikey's got this puppy love thing with Renet. Fangirls want their OTPs and Mona Lisa is one of the biggest requests they've been barking for (along with Ninjara and Alopex), but they didn't want to have to want to have a "will they? won't they?" type ordeal, so the writers just thought "Ok, fans want romance for the Turtles? Let's make it official!" Next thing you know, BOOM! Kissy noses!!!

(BTW, they really weren't KISSING in the episode, if you look closely enough. They're lips don't really touch, they're just...cuddling.)

Now, I know the same people who were begging for Ramona to happen aren't necessarily the same people who ended up complaining about the pair, but I can't help but feel bad for the writers. DiCicco posted this on Tumblr about the writing process of the show:

The writing process is pretty intense because we’re generally working on around five different stories in different stages of drafts, not including the 26+ episodes in various stages of production. But for each episode, the stages are laid out into premise, outline, 1st draft, 2nd draft, and record draft, which is the final version that gets recorded by the actors and given to the storyboard artists to start boarding.

One of the great challenges I personally have as a writer is timing the script so that it will work in under 22 minutes (I think if you account for the main title, we only have 21 minutes of actual show time now). And one thing you have to understand about television (at least, basic cable) is shows have to deliver precisely on time. They can’t be even 30 seconds over or under.

Once we see the show in animatic form, stuff almost always ends up getting cut or rewritten for time. Sometimes it actually helps the pacing, sometimes you just need to lose things. You’d be amazed how much a minute or even just 30 seconds of screen time can be.

Kinda puts things into perspective, doesn't it? I'm sure if the writers had all the time and freedom in the world, Raph and Mona would've possibly slowed down and taken a different route. But since they have to write scripts that are collaborating with other writers, make sure they introduce characters that will later be made into toys, pass judgement from the Nick executives and have some of their hard work end up on the cutting room floor, we're lucky we get what we get. This isn't a cheap show, guys. I do wish that our scripts and pacing was different, but at least they're trying to give us what we (or most) want.

That being said, I almost feel bad for poor Ciro. That comment he made about "too many female characters" really put him in the hot seat. I don't know whether he said that because he was saving Renet and Mona Lisa as a surprise or he really didn't want too many love arcs to clash with his main ideas, but I can't help but feel that the Nick execs were breathing down his neck to fix this or else they'd have someone else take over directing. (If the execs have the power to do that, that is). Even if they didn't, i can't help but think people over reacting to that just a tad. At least he's treating the franchise with more respect than Bay and Libesman did. And didn't he sound a bit nervous at the last Comic Con panel when he was like "So, any Mona Lisa fans out there? What about Mona Lisa, huh?" Like he was hoping people weren't going to start badgering him with more hate.

Personally, I really hope they decide to keep Mona in the show. And I'm not saying this because I'm a romantic and am happy to see her have more than one episode. I could see some potential with her living on earth and helping the Turtles find the remainder of the Kraang. DiCicco even agreed the show was a bit male-heavy so that's probably why we're getting a few new females next season along with Lucy Lawless later this season. With Irma being a Utrom councilman...woman...female and Karai sort of MIA, it'd be nice to see April have another gal pal to hang with. And I'm sure things will cool down between Raph and Mona were this to happen, though Leo's comment at the end of the episode makes me wonder if this will lead to something else. Like a rant of jealousy on Leo's part.

Anyway, that's my two cents. I'm sure I posted a bunch of stuff people will disagree with and I might sound like a pushover, but I loved this episode and am REALLY HOPING SUBPRIME IS DEAD THIS TIME!!!! (Swear, the dude's a cockroach...)

[Utrommaniac]

Chronologically, he wouldn't really be dead, since it's six months in the past, and he still has to be on Earth with Krang Prime when it's destroyed.

And then there's still more to open up about his history as Knight and why he betrayed the Utroms after being their "greatest hero".

[CyberCubed]

We also know Kraang subprime befriends "The" Krang in the upcoming 80's Turtles crossover.

Seeing the original Krang interact with Kraang subprime should be hilarious, especially since they got Pat Farley to reprise his role as Krang.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by OrangeNinja1987

That sentence makes no sense. There have been "shipped pairs" since the beginning, such as April and Casey.
And even if the noncanon shipping and t-cest don't belong (which I agree) there are people that will fight for those ships tooth and nail. Weirdos.

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY WRONG.

Got your attention? Excellent.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...&defid=4978683

Shipping is when fans start a movement or idea (which sometimes happens, usually doesn't) of what couple belongs together. April and Casey became a romantic couple because the writers and creators made it happen, regardless of fan input.

Any other example would probably work, but that one is invalid.

[Zak The Neutrino]

I liked this episode a lot minus two things. I agree with a lot of what everyone else said the Ralph/Mona thing was way over done. It was like ok we get it lets move on. The other thing that bothered me was Fugitoid having a gun that came out of his arm. I don't recall we haven't seen that before correct? That's really out of character for him and I didn't care of it.

I can really look past those and I'm finally for the last two episodes enjoying the space arc. It took them long enough to start actually getting some place.

[Utrommaniac]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

We also know Kraang subprime befriends "The" Krang in the upcoming 80's Turtles crossover.

Seeing the original Krang interact with Kraang subprime should be hilarious, especially since they got Pat Farley to reprise his role as Krang.

I am going to enjoy this so much. It should be incredible.

[Powder]

There will surely be no greater moment in animated TMNT history.

[CyberCubed]

Also anyone else think the trio in the Utrom council were loosely based on the 2k3 Utrom council? Not talking about the Irma/teacher designs, but just the fact that there were 3 of them that decided the fate of their people.

[shredder orokusaki]

What will happen now that the Utroms won? Does it mean no more Kraang episode from now on?

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by Bitsy83

Raph and Mona:

Woo boy....knew I should've started on this earlier in the day. Ok, time to make some enemies.

I think it's fine. Was I expecting such a strong, lovey-dovey thing? Course not, but it is nice to see a side of Raph that isn't sarcastic or angry or sarcastically angry. I know people think this is "OOC" for him and I can see their point, but how do we know that acting goofy around a girl wasn't meant to be part of his character? Because he teased his bothers for the same reason? I'm sure he wasn't expecting it to happen. There have been lots of times where I see someone acting a certain way (for example, getting upset over something trivial) and I say to myself "Ok, that will NEVER happen to me." Then something trivial happens and what do I do? Act exactly like that person I witnessed, maybe even more so. We tend to be hypocritical more than we expect to.

As for the "rushed romance:" You call it pandering to the fans, I call it giving the babies their bottles. You really think the writers and artists haven't seen the fan art and fiction all over the internet, including Tumblr? Peter DiCicco, one of the main writers, has a Tumblr account so I'm sure he's come across a few, INCLUDING Ramona stuff.

For the last three seasons, these guys have been getting emails, tweets, posts, and live questions asking about what sort of love interests the turtles will have. And they've only been getting more nagging the further we get into the series. I remember coming across lots of posts about how horrible the romance is on the show, even though it's not intended to be a romantic comedy. April's been too vague about whether she likes Donnie more than Casey; Leo and Karai has been nothing but a tease; Mikey's got this puppy love thing with Renet. Fangirls want their OTPs and Mona Lisa is one of the biggest requests they've been barking for (along with Ninjara and Alopex), but they didn't want to have to want to have a "will they? won't they?" type ordeal, so the writers just thought "Ok, fans want romance for the Turtles? Let's make it official!" Next thing you know, BOOM! Kissy noses!!!

(BTW, they really weren't KISSING in the episode, if you look closely enough. They're lips don't really touch, they're just...cuddling.)

I don't think anyone noticed my earlier posts.

If the romance between 2 main characters is rushed, I can understand but Mona Lisa is a minor character and we got what 4/5 episodes left in the space arc so Mona will probably be in a least 3 more episodes.

We probably won't be seeing her again after that (maybe she probably make an appearance sometime in the future) I expect we be seeing a heartbreaking Turtle at the end of the Space Arc.

It is a teenage romance after all and they don't last.

Originally Posted by Zak The Neutrino

I liked this episode a lot minus two things. I agree with a lot of what everyone else said the Ralph/Mona thing was way over done. It was like ok we get it lets move on. The other thing that bothered me was Fugitoid having a gun that came out of his arm. I don't recall we haven't seen that before correct? That's really out of character for him and I didn't care of it.

Fugitoid had his guns out in The Moons of Thalos 3.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

We also know Kraang subprime befriends "The" Krang in the upcoming 80's Turtles crossover.

Seeing the original Krang interact with Kraang subprime should be hilarious, especially since they got Pat Farley to reprise his role as Krang.

He doesn't just befriend him. At comic con last year they were saying Krang is sub-primes cousin.

By the way has anyone noticed that Donnie's jabs and insults towards Mikey have started to become more mean spirited?

I mean yeah all the Turtles have teased Mikey now and again...but even then the jabs and teasing that Donnie was something Mikey would get over in five minutes.

In the last few episodes the digs and veiled insults on Donnie's part have become down right cruel. Heck this recent one where Donnie is trying to teach Mikey about black holes was set up as a joke that Raph automatically would jump on and they get away with it because Mikey wouldn't understand what the insult actually was.

[matteso586]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

He doesn't just befriend him. At comic con last year they were saying Krang is sub-primes cousin.

By the way has anyone noticed that Donnie's jabs and insults towards Mikey have started to become more mean spirited?

I mean yeah all the Turtles have teased Mikey now and again...but even then the jabs and teasing that Donnie was something Mikey would get over in five minutes.

In the last few episodes the digs and veiled insults on Donnie's part have become down right cruel. Heck this recent one where Donnie is trying to teach Mikey about black holes was set up as a joke that Raph automatically would jump on and they get away with it because Mikey wouldn't understand what the insult actually was.

I think the guys at NYCC 2015 were joking about KSP and 1987 Krang being cousins. And I see that you think it's unlikely that "Knight" perished for real this time.

[TLP]

Really didn't like this episode.

The jokes weren't as good, and I personally despise how forced the Raph/Mona Lisa relationship is. Pure shipper bait.

[MikeandRaph87]

I watched it last night. We get an origin for the Kraang and Kraang Prime is Krang ( or is it Kraang?). That was a nice touch. I just don't like how Agent Bishop is being utilized this go around. IDW will help in that he is covered more to his concept I believe. Anyway, I was a little confused. If Krang copied himself did he overwrite the other utroms DNA to be zombie soldiers with his DNA? Sub-Prime is definitely his own alien not a Kraang copy. Is he like Krang's number two or what exactly?

[neatoman]

So here's a question, why is that Queen, Sub-Prime and Prime can speak without robot suits but no other Utroms can?

[Ceres]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I watched it last night. We get an origin for the Kraang and Kraang Prime is Krang ( or is it Kraang?). That was a nice touch. I just don't like how Agent Bishop is being utilized this go around. IDW will help in that he is covered more to his concept I believe. Anyway, I was a little confused. If Krang copied himself did he overwrite the other utroms DNA to be zombie soldiers with his DNA? Sub-Prime is definitely his own alien not a Kraang copy. Is he like Krang's number two or what exactly?

Kraang has not copied himself in the conventional meaning, he just mind-controlled his fellow Utrom and made them into Kraang(building a whole race after his name was probably an effect of the Kraathragon Mutagen he experimented with, and as the flashback stated, this mutagen get to his head, making him crazy in the end and gave him an overly high self esteem)

My guess is that SUbprime resisted Kraangs mind-control but later on kind of allied himself with Kraang to have more power, thus leaving the council behind.

Originally Posted by neatoman

So here's a question, why is that Queen, Sub-Prime and Prime can speak without robot suits but no other Utroms can?

This is a very good question which i was wondering myself ever since Bishop had appeared.

[MikeandRaph87]

I write TMNT as something I don't have to think about and can work while I watch it. You know like you could with sitcoms. I guess I was wrong. So to clarify, Krang took over the utrom race with mind control and then mutated his subjects? 99 or so were not under his control and thus the actual race, utroms continued on while Krang's subjects became a sister species?

[miru]

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

Maybe now we can finally heard the end of the Irma-ites' clamoring.

Also:
Leo: "I totally get mutants like Karai, but... alien lizards?"

Yes. Pawn/Rook is an awesome character.

[TLP]

Reading through the pages; apparently I'm not the only one upset by this "love interest" bullcrap.

Ah well. I'm done with this show after this season, if it doesn't get any better. Then I guess I'll stick with Marvel for my action cartoon fix. They seem to be better written, as much as people like to complain about those shows being "awful".