How would you reintroduce Venus de Milo?

[Prowler]

I wouldn't... but for argument sake, I wouldn't pull the "we're not actually related" or the "she was there all along but Splinter didn't notice" BS which felt like a rip-off of FW's backstory for Mondo Gecko.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

I don't really see how that is clashing of schools. The Turtles don't show a whole lot of human sexual dimorphism, cause in reality we have a very low level of differences compared to a lot of other species.

So why should Venus be subject for perceived female human sexual dimorphism, when there are more credence for turtle dimorphism?

If Venus is to be without the typical "girl code", boobs, hourglass body, long eye lashes, hair. Making her more petite goes against turtle nature, especially Red-Eared Sliders where the female is a lot larger then the male, like BayTurtles vs Mirage Turtles size difference.

Should she then have a distinct trait of having cellulite, as that is a human female sex characteristic. Or birthing hips which again goes forward the "girl coding" with hourglass body (or in this case pear shape), maybe the shell works like a sexy corset...

I'm not arguing that Turtles do or should; I was simply wondering if there was a balance between the two schools of thought or if they can coexist, and if so, to what extent. I mean, TMNT's top two notorious female mutants are Venus and Mona Lisa.

One prime example of female mutants that sticks in mind, Alopex has been sadly neutralized and cutified since Sophie Campbell drew her; she used to look like a rabid nightmare, and now she's just a widdle ball of fwuff. But I think that's #1 the artist's personal style and #2 more a result of her becoming an ally than a reminder that "hey she's a female." Koya is an example of how female characters can be done without resorting to silly pink bows. Angelina Jolie's Tigress from Kung Fu Panda for another...

The further we progress from braided bandanna and shell boobs, the better. But you win internet points for making me laugh at "sexy corset shell"...

[Ninjinister]

If I were writing a book for IDW I'd have her be one of the denizens of the future in Turtles in Time 4

[Shark_Blade]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Maybe Venus should be genderless. Its not like she has to be male or female. It would fit in today's SJW tumblr society too.

Like androgynous?

You're suggesting that she has a dick now? What is wrong with you??

[miru]

In a world where we've seen Lord Dregg, Vernon Fenwick, and even freaking Jammerhead return, along with the rise of new scrappies like Spider Bytez and Eric Sachs, I believe Venus can be seen again. Here are my suggestions:

1. Originally, the Turtles were greater in number like a real ninja clan, but Shredder took out many of their number upon their first encounter, and this includes her and also others like Kirby and Picasso. Maybe she turns up in the employ of Dregg, embittered from her "death" at the hands of Shredder, mutated to become more chiropteran/insectoid under him.
2. Agent Bishop, obsessed with the creatures, decides to try and make his own to serve under him. Kirby, Terrorpin, etc may be failed results, but Venus is the final product. While she flirts with the Turtles and often helps them out, the man she truly loves is Bishop. Only knowing basic ninjitsu, she is primarily focused on magical attack.
3. Or, she, Carter, Cody, et al could only exist in a story Mondo Gecko made up to entertain himself. This seems like a good "catch-all" fate for hated TMNT characters.

[sdp]

Outside of the pilot the turtles never showed interest on Venus and even then. She doesn't have hair either, her bandanna is longer and resembles a ponytail, that's actually very clever and I like it. The Shellboobs don't bother me but I guess they can have less of a boob shape but she needs to have some girl like features.

I would love to see Venus back even if it's as a dream but I'd rather she be a real character. Her backstory can actually be very interesting with the whole Chinese angle. Her origin can change slightly, she could've already been in the sewers and just hapened to mutate when the ooze/other turtles fell so fans don't get their panties in a twist over her being their "sister". I'd change her bandanna to white so she would have a different color.


I didn't know but the girl who played Venus was cute:

Originally Posted by TonySiegel

honestly, i wasnt expecting peeps to be open to venus being reintroduced... let alone a discussion about her...

so you made this thread to see Venus get flamed?

[CyberCubed]

The girl in the Venus costume is cute. Sadly since that pic is 1997...which is now oddly nearly 20 years ago...she probably looks old and dated now so I'd rather not look her up and see how she aged.

The sad realization when you realize 1997 is now 20 years ago.

[ToTheNines]

*drinks jug of Dominican rum and dies in his sleep*

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

*drinks jug of Dominican rum and dies in his sleep*

At least he died doing what he loved.

[ProactiveMan]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Taking her name at face value...

She'd be a double amputee?

[neatoman]

How to reintroduce her? As something using the name and nothing else, that or brief joke.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I'm not arguing that Turtles do or should; I was simply wondering if there was a balance between the two schools of thought or if they can coexist, and if so, to what extent. I mean, TMNT's top two notorious female mutants are Venus and Mona Lisa.

One prime example of female mutants that sticks in mind, Alopex has been sadly neutralized and cutified since Sophie Campbell drew her; she used to look like a rabid nightmare, and now she's just a widdle ball of fwuff. But I think that's #1 the artist's personal style and #2 more a result of her becoming an ally than a reminder that "hey she's a female." Koya is an example of how female characters can be done without resorting to silly pink bows. Angelina Jolie's Tigress from Kung Fu Panda for another...

The further we progress from braided bandanna and shell boobs, the better. But you win internet points for making me laugh at "sexy corset shell"...

I'm sure there is several ways of balancing it, from making her not Smurfette, but still recognizable female even though the boys don't have male coding.

They could go the Nick Mona Lisa route and make her less bulky (compared to Sal) and more smoother in the features, but still keep her the biggest of the Turtles.

Sophie did a stellar job designing her female turtle, as she basically designed Artemisia as a Ninja Turtle, not Girl/Boy Ninja Turtle.

[TonySiegel]

Originally Posted by sdp

so you made this thread to see Venus get flamed?

not at all... i'm actually pro venus... wouldn't mind seeing stories with the female turtle perspective, especially if executed correctly...

i just had it in my mind that the fandom hated her from the research and materials i was reading lately...

would peter laird really flip out if someone were to ask him about venus?

[TonySiegel]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

*drinks jug of Dominican rum and dies in his sleep*

[Krutch]

I remember at a Toronto Fan Expo at the TMNT panel, they were telling the story of how all the turtles got their names. I raised my hand and asked "So how did Venus De Milo come about?" and the room collectively groaned. All I got was a simple "We don't talk about Venus. Next question." Yeesh

As far as reintroducing Venus goes, I think it's doable.

Personally, I'd like to see her come around for a season of a TV show or a multi-volume arc in the comics, but I wouldn't want her around forever. Give her a bit of a tragic heel turn. Not sure what her origin would be, but I'd start her off as an outcast good guy who tries to fit in with the guys but she never feels like one of the team. Shredder plays on this insecurity and lures her to join his ranks, maybe even second in command(in turn creating a rivalry between Venus and Karai). The Turtles try to redeem her and by doing so, she turns on Shredder at the last moment. Afterwards the Turtles celebrate thinking she's back on the team for good but she decides to go her own way, knowing she's never going to be apart of the family. She disappears, and life goes on without her.

Not entirely original but its an arc I'd probably dig.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Sophie did a stellar job designing her female turtle, as she basically designed Artemisia as a Ninja Turtle, not Girl/Boy Ninja Turtle.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't she roughly the same size as the original four as drawn by Campbell?

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't she roughly the same size as the original four as drawn by Campbell?

No, she is the tallest of the five being at a whopping 5' 4", while the original turtles have the Other Strangeness height stats (more or less) so Donnie is the tallest among the dudes being flat 5 feet tall.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Question: how would you reconcile the clashing schools of thought, namely: the Turtles take on some humanoid characteristics during mutation, versus no sexual dimorphism?

While I definitely agree "shell boobs" and pastel colors are pandering and insulting, I do think that copying some humanoid female traits could potentially make sense depending on how the mutations work in whichever universe this happened. For instance, in Fred Wolf and Nick TMNT, you take on the traits of whatever you last touched. If the female turtle was last in contact with a human...?

I'm not opposed to sexual dimorphism entirely. I'm opposed to the imposition of human sexual dimorphism on what would be a reptilian character.

There are plenty of traits a mutant turtle could get from a human that aren't "males are bigger than females, on average and oh...mammary glands."

Like:
Teeth, color vision, the ability to walk up-right, a drastic shift in intermemberal index, speech, self awareness....

[Candy Kappa]

How would even mammary glands work on a humanoid Turtle, the can't be on the chest like humans, as there are no place for the fatty tissue to be. The plastron isn't some thick hide, or plates over the skin. It's literally the rib cage with fused bone plates, covered with scutes. Boobs aren't under the ribcage.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

How would even mammary glands work on a humanoid Turtle, the can't be on the chest like humans, as there are no place for the fatty tissue to be. The plastron isn't some thick hide, or plates over the skin. It's literally the rib cage with fused bone plates, covered with scutes. Boobs aren't under the ribcage.

Exactly. So there's absolutely no reason why a female reptile shouldn't be anything but flat chested. Flat chested and likely taller and more broad than her male contemporaries.