Official Episode Discussion S4 Ep 20: Super Shredder

[shredder orokusaki]

I KILLED HIM! I KILLED HIM!! FINALY!!!! NOW THE TURTLES CAN NOT SAVE HIM AGAIN BY TRAVELLING BACK IN TIME!! THIS TIME IS THE END OF SPLINTER!!

[Aaronardo]

I'm glad to see the show is finally getting itself back on track again. But screw Nickelodeon for moving it to 9am at Daylight Savings Time weekend. Like, c'mon.

Auman tends to write his best episodes when the episode is a lot more action-oriented than dialogue-oriented. This is one of those action-oriented episodes. I've been dreaming of seeing Super Shredder in this show since the end of Season 1, so I'm very happy to see that finally happen. Everyone's intact (except, obviously, April) in personality, therefore, a lot of the comedy in this episode got some pretty good laughs out of me ("Stupid cat!" "It's like the whole universe hates TV!!").

As pointed out before, this episode is incredibly intense. I was happy to see they weren't downplaying Super Shredder at all here. Without spoiling anything, (though it is hella hard to talk about this episode without spoilers) I really liked that ending. Though it's so clearly a fakeout and they're probably going to reverse it by the end of the next episode; since, if we know anything about this writing team, it's that they can't handle permanent change in this show, I still did enjoy watching it and it felt like a formidable way to handle these characters.

I watched The Invasion a couple nights ago. I hadn't done it in awhile and felt like I should. I remember pretty much geeking out and being kind of disappointed at all the things the show forgot about after that episode. But I mostly remember greatly enjoy it. I am so happy to say that for the first time since Tale of the Yokai, I felt like I was finally watching that same show again with this episode.

Best of the season. Hands down.

Originally Posted by shredder orokusaki

I KILLED HIM! I KILLED HIM!! FINALY!!!! NOW THE TURTLES CAN NOT SAVE HIM AGAIN BY TRAVELLING BACK IN TIME!! THIS TIME IS THE END OF SPLINTER!!

Holy butts, man, at least put those things under some spoiler tags. Damn.

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by shredder orokusaki

I KILLED HIM! I KILLED HIM!! FINALY!!!! NOW THE TURTLES CAN NOT SAVE HIM AGAIN BY TRAVELLING BACK IN TIME!! THIS TIME IS THE END OF SPLINTER!!


http://i66.tinypic.com/2d0kq6h.png
http://i65.tinypic.com/2ldhs10.png

You idiot, those pics are too big.

[ObiWanFan4life]

Originally Posted by Aaronardo

I'm glad to see the show is finally getting itself back on track again. But screw Nickelodeon for moving it to 9am at Daylight Savings Time weekend. Like, c'mon.

Auman tends to write his best episodes when the episode is a lot more action-oriented than dialogue-oriented. This is one of those action-oriented episodes. I've been dreaming of seeing Super Shredder in this show since the end of Season 1, so I'm very happy to see that finally happen. Everyone's intact (except, obviously, April) in personality, therefore, a lot of the comedy in this episode got some pretty good laughs out of me ("Stupid cat!" "It's like the whole universe hates TV!!").

As pointed out before, this episode is incredibly intense. I was happy to see they weren't downplaying Super Shredder at all here. Without spoiling anything, (though it is hella hard to talk about this episode without spoilers) I really liked that ending. Though it's so clearly a fakeout and they're probably going to reverse it by the end of the next episode; since, if we know anything about this writing team, it's that they can't handle permanent change in this show, I still did enjoy watching it and it felt like a formidable way to handle these characters.

I watched The Invasion a couple nights ago. I hadn't done it in awhile and felt like I should. I remember pretty much geeking out and being kind of disappointed at all the things the show forgot about after that episode. But I mostly remember greatly enjoy it. I am so happy to say that for the first time since Tale of the Yokai, I felt like I was finally watching that same show again with this episode.

Best of the season. Hands down.



Holy butts, man, at least put those things under some spoiler tags. Damn.

Agreed. If only the beginning of Season 4 had this intensity and vehemence.

[drgon78]

Great episode, but looks like a two parter, so have to wait a week and see.

[TMNTInsighter]

Rating: B (4 out of 5 stars)

To say that Shredder is constantly referred to as the best villain of the TMNT franchise, usually isn't to praise the franchises Rogues Gallery, but to damn the other villains. The original is built for laughs (his most interesting aspect is his relationship with Krang), the 4Kids version is evil to the core surface material (both of them), and this new one is unsympathetic. Not that that's entirely a bad thing with regards to the latter.
This Shredder borrows from some of the more notable figures in Batman's gallery of villains (which is arguably the best Rogues Gallery out there), mostly with regards to self delusion and thus wishing to create the world around him and those in it into his image:
Like Mr. Freeze, he mourns the loss of someone he loved and thus seals himself in a suit that prevents him from any kinds of contact. Unlike Freeze, the loss of this person is largely his own and thus we feel free to distance ourselves as much as we desire. Like Two Face, there's a duality to him with regards of wanting to love and be loved; yet he came to scorn those who raised him, as well as the person he still holds as brother and thus ultimately leading to the death of the one person he loved most--the price of which is all over half of his face. Unlike Two Face, that skewered psychology is never fully explored. Like Maxie Zeus, Shredder sees and interacts with both the past and the present world in a different but no less rational way than we do (these delusions after all don't incapacitate him or interfere with his plans, whether successful or not). Unlike Maxie, these delusions are hardly ever played for laughs. And like Jervis Tetch, he loved someone (Tang Shen and later Karai) and was denied it by fate, thus he felt conspired against by fate and took by right and force (via brain worms in this case) what could only be an undeserved gift. Unlike Tetch, he has had none of our sympathy from the start.
Again, this isn't always a bad thing. We obviously don't want to confuse any of these villains with him and Auman, realizing this, takes away any notions we have of becoming attached to him both in psychology and action. How fortunate for the Shredder too that he is able to find some of the best henchmen on the market who will also share in his delusions, hitherto out of unquestioning loyalty or just plain fear. The end result is almost like Newton's third law of motion, where this series has arguably the best Shredder this franchise has had, yet it also won't deny us the satisfaction of an impending demise. And that's why this writer feels that "Tale of the Yokai" is such an important episode because without any of those glimpses into the past, any discussion comparing him to the aforementioned villains wouldn't be possible.
Maybe I'm giving him too much credit. After all, I've always felt more that this version of Splinter and the Shredder best resemble the two women that King Solomon had to choose against in the Bible with regards to who was the mother of a child. Karai also has the potential to resemble Zeus, Mordred, Oedipus, etc. and other figures throughout time and fiction who have turned against and murdered their fathers (or those that once stood as their fathers).
Making her directorial debut, long time storyboard artist Rie Koga oversees Shredder's biggest humiliation yet as he is forced to become something he's always looked down on to feed his self delusions. She also is able to bring back images from past episodes of the series (and even old settings such as the sewer from "The Invasion II" and the city from "Of Rats and Men") before setting them on flames, thus reinforcing how much Shredder has lost via his own actions rather than others. Not only do both his family members get in on the hits but he's also initially forced to hold Shinigami's life over Karai's head in order to instill his wishes.
Actually, in that moment, one may once again be reminded of Newton's third law of motion. On the positive side, it shows just how much circumstances continue to eat away at Saki seeing as how Karai cares for a woman three episodes old more than the man who raised her. On the negative side, Shinigami (again only three episodes old) is reduced to a plot device with still little development. And by episode's end, poor Karai once again can't catch a break.
And yet that's what makes this episode work aside from Shredder's fractured yet unexplored psychology. The Foot Clan of New York in this series has functioned more like a twisted version of New York's Hamato Clan and just like in episodes such as "Vengeance is Mine", "The Invasion", etc.; it's always fun when their viewpoints, and not just the characters themselves, come into conflict. Both fight not only out of loyalty and integrity, but what they view as the high truth. And that's what makes going up against something as strong and (even more) unstoppable as the Super Shredder worth it. It also speaks to Koga's freshman direction that the action is expertly handled as well.

[picassotheninjaturtle]

The Shredder was freaking BEAST in this episode.

[Fang Wolf]

Originally Posted by Redworld96

Best line of The Super Shredder:
Razhar: I have always wanted to see a turtle without a shell
Mikey: You wanna see me naked? WEIRDOOOO

(This was Great episode...Look for to see the next one...)

[Ninjinister]

Originally Posted by TMNTInsighter

Wall

Why is this 'review' only like 20% about the show at all and 5% about the episode?

[Haalix]

This! This is the kind of episode that I want to see. Action packed, drama, suspense etc.
Also, finally I could laugh again in an episode. Especially glad Mikey didn't have the gross comedy anymore, eating digesting pizza or something. And Splinter when he threw that rock.

Hopefully the rest of the episodes are like this as well!

[VaughnMichael]

Really great episode and I recognized the area right away that Splinter last faced the Ratking.
I was half way expecting him to pop up and mess things up for Splinter.
Unless of course they do bring him in like they did in the mirage comics and Splinter sees him the same way he did there as a ghost.
I think that would be really fantastic.

[GoldMutant]

"Ahhhh, after ten thousand years it's back! It's time to review!" (Power Rangers has been on my mind as of late)

I often hate being the negative Nancy in terms of reviewing the show, but something just doesn't bode well for me at times. Dunno why, maybe because I miss certain stuff from Nick TMNT that was done before, but it certainly bothers me to a degree. Just wish there was more outside the typical "BANG! CRASH! BOOM!", which in this episode bears its ugly head badly.

Let me say this though, Super Shredder I friggen love as a concept. To quote Blazing Saddles, it's truly "the last desperate act of a man." When compared to his original incarnation in Secret of the Ooze, Super Shredder is by far much more dangerous. Nothing, and I mean nothing, can really beat him; it's by far the deadliest Shredder has been in the series, barring his bloodlust in Annihilation: Earth!. In addition, the Foot Clan barely talked in this episode, as if a serious chip on their shoulders came up after Baxter got his butt kicked in the cold opening.

Unfortunately, while SS is intense with destroying the competition, I can't say the same for his design. I mentioned it in the discussion thread, but to repeat: the design is too over the top and grotesque for my liking. Better than a taller Shredder arguably, but just not my forte.

If you can guess by what I've described thus far, the action is easily the best part of the episode. Although most scenes are rather short to build up SS's power, the train fight at the end was blood pumping. It, along with April vs Shinigami in City at War, may be my favorite fight of the season. There's little dialogue here, increasing the stakes. As for Splinter vs SS, it felt rather lackluster as we've been spoiled with better fights by Shred Head in the past, just wish more were done outside being a David vs Goliath type conflict.

Even though the action and intensity is top notch this time, I can't say much for the characterization. Brandon Auman may be good with action, but his dialogue and characters are a different matter. With the exception of the training scene after the opening credits, there really wasn't much for the characterization. With the exceptions of Splinter, Shredder, and arguably Karai, everyone just felt... there.

I'm not talking fully on little moments, as I think Rahzar watching his show was hilarious, but mostly nobody had a reason to be here. Outside the obvious "We're on Team Hamato/Foot!" dilemma, there weren't many stakes for the others, little insight of the Foot's sudden grim attitudes (when withstanding Baxter's beating) or the heroes' fears on Splinter. By then for the latter, it's the end of the episode; the cliffhanger I'll admit was a good change of pace though.

Lastly, to discuss the intensity for a moment, I'll admit using the photos and older locations was a nice way to show it's time to get down to business. However, the one thing bothering me is the Rat King area from Of Rats and Men. How exactly would Don or anyone other than Splinter know about it? I get it, head canon, but it doesn't fit outside possible symbolism or hinting at RK's return.

Overall, I'm not too keen on the episode. It certainly was worth the wait, but I really wish there was some kind of settling despite the episode's overtone. One of the season's best, which really isn't saying much, but still missing something for me personally. I give it a 7 out of 10.

[Autbot_Benz]

Did anyone notice the building where the Shellraiser crashed was the Second Time around . A nod to April's father's Antique store

[neatoman]

So I just started watching the episode, and less than a minute in, Shredder tells Stockman he'd rip his limbs off until only the head remains... Huh... I get the reference, it's just that I'd never thought I would hear something like that in this show...

[PApagreg]

This is episode was meh, on one hand the action was decent( I especially liked April waterbending her fan) but the emotional bits didn't carry any punches and the dialogue was kinda bad

One of the lines that stood out to me was when Karai said to Shredder "You become what you hated a mutant", so apparently Shredder hates mutants despite his top enforcers being mutants and wanting a mutant army, alright.

Also the psychological stuff with Shredder and Splinter were kinda funny, I chuckled at the part where Shredder had giant photos of Yoshi's past and Shredder acting like a spoiled child.

I give it a 5/10

[tmntsplinterfan1997]

Keep your fingers crossed. Let's hope Splinter is either injured or not.

[Rukitron]

For a second I thought Shredder was having boneinitis when his arm started acting up.

Also anyone else getting tired of seeing Splinter get incapacitated on a regular basis?

[CyberCubed]

Pretty good episode with a lot of high stakes. I especially liked the fight on the subway train, really well done.

Overall though its pretty obvious the show has been heading toward this moment since the first season, makes you wonder where they can go from here.

[matteso586]

Surprised that the Foot have set up all of those burning pictures in such a short time.

Aren't subway trains supposed to contain passengers inside? Lots of New Yorker's stay up late at night.

Who here expected someone to bring up the Rat King?

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by matteso586

Aren't subway trains supposed to contain passengers inside? Lots of New Yorker's stay up late at night.

I expect the henchman scared them off the train before they nicked it. Or the train wasn't used for the evening run so they nicked it.