Random Thoughts: TMNT Edition

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by pferreira

I don't know the answer that's why I asked. It's probably David being David. He tends to get offended with me for the littlest thing.

What's "the littlest thing" according to you?

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by neatoman

What's "the littlest thing" according to you?

A simple question about something he watched.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by pferreira

A simple question about something he watched.

That's really vague, what was the question and what did he watch?

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by neatoman

That's really vague, what was the question and what did he watch?

Oh man I don't really want to go into this. I asked a question about identifying an episode of the 60s Batman TV series he is a big fan of. Since he rewatched the show a couple of years ago and posts about it once a month I asked and so he had a go at me, monetising me again. Really, he's like that. It's not like I ask him questions all the time. When was the Irma thread? That was the last time I asked a question to David. Like I said he's just like that with me, I'm his punchbag.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by pferreira

Oh man I don't really want to go into this. I asked a question about identifying an episode of the 60s Batman TV series he is a big fan of. Since he rewatched the show a couple of years ago and posts about it once a month I asked and so he had a go at me, monetising me again. Really, he's like that. It's not like I ask him questions all the time. When was the Irma thread? That was the last time I asked a question to David. Like I said he's just like that with me, I'm his punchbag.

OK, I think I see the problem, these questions aren't exactly appropriate to ask. They're not offensive but it's not something you ask a creative online.

The question about reviving the Fred Wolf cartoon seems slightly insulting. It comes across like you want to pitch a TV show and use him as proxy because you think he has some pull, he's not going act on your behalf just because you want something he worked on back in production. He might not even want to go back, it was something he did decades ago. He's probably retired now anyway.

And asking him to identify an episode of a TV show seems more like something you check an episode list for or casually ask a friend. If that doesn't work you'd just ask on a forum or something.

Here are the kind of questions he probably expects and would answer politely:

• What inspired you to become a writer?
• What are you working on now?
• Anything you're proud of?
• What lead you to work on that show?
• What's your advice for an aspiring writer?

Questions relating to his work, either completed or in progress. That's what you ask, not "I want a show back on the air, please pitch a revival for me".

[Leo656]

Here's the thing: You're obviously leaving details out, and those details would be necessary, in order for anyone to make any kind of judgment in your favor. Your story is entirely too vague. I don't even know what "Monetizing you" even means; was he implying that you should be paying him to answer your questions? If so, perhaps you've come on too strong in the past with him, in which case, he may have gently been calling you a pest. I don't know, I wasn't there. But I certainly can't tell from your story so far.

I haven't ever heard too many good things about that guy, anyway, so I'm sure he and I would have just about nothing to talk about. But from over here, it sounds like A. You're annoyed he doesn't pay you more attention, and B. Maybe he doesn't because you might've pestered him too much in the past, perhaps without realizing it.

As I said earlier, asking him if he'd asked Nick to "restart" the original cartoon probably doesn't deserve a response, just to be blunt. I mean sure, "There are no stupid questions", but logically, it's highly unlikely. If I were him, I would've ignored it too. Just saying.

neatoman's post also makes some good points.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by neatoman

They're not offensive but it's not something you ask a creative online.

Well yeah I was asking what I thought because I'm a fan of the show but it was more out of interest than a demand. If he said I would of been fine. To be fair he does answer TMNT related questions on his FB page when he posts something which is like every two or three weeks. I thought it wouldn't annoy him. Guess I was wrong.

Originally Posted by neatoman

And asking him to identify an episode of a TV show seems more like something you check an episode list for or casually ask a friend. If that doesn't work you'd just ask on a forum or something.

Since he posts about the 60s Batman like I said about once a month I didn't think he'd mind to answer. I thought it'd be an easy question for him if he's a fan. Maybe I should have asked a Godzilla question...

Originally Posted by neatoman

• What inspired you to become a writer?
• What are you working on now?
• Anything you're proud of?
• What lead you to work on that show?
• What's your advice for an aspiring writer?

These are good questions and a couple of these I have asked before but he's ignored them and I'm always polite and approachable in asking something. I always begin with "Hi David how are you..." so I understand manners. But these are good questions to ask someone who isn't David.

Originally Posted by Leo656

Here's the thing: You're obviously leaving details out, and those details would be necessary, in order for anyone to make any kind of judgment in your favor. Your story is entirely too vague. I don't even know what "Monetizing you" even means; was he implying that you should be paying him to answer your questions? If so, perhaps you've come on too strong in the past with him, in which case, he may have gently been calling you a pest. I don't know, I wasn't there. But I certainly can't tell from your story so far.

I want to be nice about this because obviously you don't know the whole story but David has known me for like five or six years on FB and he's kind of been generally rude to me in the past. I've never stalked him or pestered him more than any of the others there. David has issues with me due to my politics and thinks I'm an incompetent idiot. He's also unmonetized me (allowed me to see his posts, is monetise not the right word?) to make fun of me on one occasion. It would be easier to annoy him than make him happy. I know he doesn't seem to respond well to people being polite to him, I guess he learns that from his tutor Harlan Ellison. I'm not upset over not getting attention because he has a life away from his fans but I like to be treated the same way I treat others. Whenever I think about his behaviour I still find it hurtful and that's my problem at the end of the day. Never meet your heroes. I personally don't find him approachable which is a shame but oh well.

Originally Posted by Leo656

neatoman's post also makes some good points.

Yeah neatoman's response was really helpful. It's good to be reminded of this stuff. We all need to from time to time.

[Leo656]

I have heard he's not a great guy. Why would you seek his attention at all? Because he once worked on something you enjoyed? That seems silly.

I don't know him or you very well at all, but I would wager a guess that he's not worth your time, honestly. Continuing to reach out to him is only going to cause you frustration, and him aggravation. If this is a pattern, and he's both ignored AND mocked you in the past, it's probably in your best interest to simply move on.

I had to Block two people today that I've known for a long while, who I worked with and thought were "friends", because one day they just woke up and decided they didn't like me anymore. Why they didn't just Un-Friend me, I'll never know. Instead, they just made it a point to troll and sh*tpost on my page at every chance for the past year or so, and finally, today I realized that this wasn't just "jokes", they really just don't like me as a person, so instead of waiting for them to get their sh*t together any longer, I realized they're not going to change and Blocked them. I don't need their negativity, and my family doesn't need to be exposed to the garbage they post in public about me, my job, and my wife.

Moral being: People who don't like you are best avoided, even if you still like or admire them. You're never going to "win them back", and any attempts to persuade them simply make one look foolish and desperate. You can be "polite" all day long and they're just going to use it against you.

Isn't he the guy who basically tried to take credit for "creating" TMNT as we know them? Guy's delusional anyway, if that's the guy I'm thinking of. I'd be afraid to ask him what time it was, as he'd probably try and convince me that he invented the watch.

[Papenbrook]

I once had a dream where Rise!Donnie's head grew bigger. It eventually fell off from its body.

From there, the head moved like a 3D Pac-Man ball - eating everything in its path. Eventually, it exploded from all the pressure it took from eating various things.

I guess I'll take a break from Rise.

[miru]

Originally Posted by Papenbrook

I once had a dream where Rise!Donnie's head grew bigger. It eventually fell off from its body.

From there, the head moved like a 3D Pac-Man ball - eating everything in its path. Eventually, it exploded from all the pressure it took from eating various things.

I guess I'll take a break from Rise.

Ya know, if the series after Rise follows the trend set by Rise, that could be an actual plot.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Isn't he the guy who basically tried to take credit for "creating" TMNT as we know them? Guy's delusional anyway, if that's the guy I'm thinking of. I'd be afraid to ask him what time it was, as he'd probably try and convince me that he invented the watch.

Yeah, he's that guy. Although I think he's banking on the assumption that most TMNT fans haven't actually read Mirage or done any research, I don't really think he believes everything he claims.

He claims to be responsible for the Turtles' personalities, the introduction of Bebop and Rocksteady, the cowabunga catchphrase, the pizzas, April as a newsreporter (even seems to go so as to claim she's a main character because of him), her design, the Technodrome, Splinter's revised origin, the robotic Foot ninja, Shredder being the main villain, etc. The list goes on. Maybe some of these things are true but we know a lot of them are false, either from reading the comics or doing research into the pre-production of the toyline. And some claims are contradicted by the voice actors and producers, while other would logically be up to other staff/producers/censors. Like I really doubt it was actually his idea to have the enemy soldiers be robots dressed up in ninja garb and using traditional weapons, just seems more like something a censor came up with.

What's probably the strangest claim he's made is in regards to the creation of Krang. You'd think Krang is just the Utroms condensed down to a single character but allegedly he's not. According to David Wise, the creation of Krang (and also the Technodrome/Robo-Foot) went something like this:

• "I made the Ninjas Robots, now I need to explain how they were made"
• "So I made it so Shredder had a technological fortress, which also needed explaination"
• "So I went with an alien, which I decided should look like a brain because I like some old movie that had a disembodied brain monster"
• "Then I needed a reason for the brain to be allied with Shredder, so I made it wanting him to build a robotic body for him"

This was in Michelle Ivy's interview with him. The strange part is rather obvious, he went out of his way to omit the Utroms despite Krang's appearence and origin clearly being inspired by them. He only mentioned them once she pointed out the oddity. The whole story seems really backwards and feels like there holes in it. I think the sliver truth here is that it really was reverse engineered, not because he needed to come up with explaintions for his own ideas but simply because he had to fit a toy companies concepts in with a comic book story ripped apart by censors.

If he had instead claimed "They wanted me to remove all instances of death and violence from a narrative built on death and violence, turn the brain-aliens into a single bad guy as well as make the character who died early on into the main villain. And also you have to shove in a Pig, Rhino, a Death Star, an armored van and a blimp that weren't there before. This is what I came up with from trying to make it all fit together", then I wouldn't have any problem believing him. Because judging from my reasearch, that's probably closer to the truth.

[Leo656]

He'd fit in perfectly in any pro wrestling locker room, with tall tales like that. "I sold out the Budokan, brother! But you probably weren't born yet and nobody there spoke English so you're gonna have to take my word for it."

Yeah, that all sounds like a mix of exaggeration and flat-out lies. I'm sure he had SOME input on that stuff but it's probably closer to what you said.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Papenbrook

I once had a dream where Rise!Donnie's head grew bigger. It eventually fell off from its body.

From there, the head moved like a 3D Pac-Man ball - eating everything in its path. Eventually, it exploded from all the pressure it took from eating various things.

I guess I'll take a break from Rise.

With any luck maybe the head that was cut off the bust of himself he was making will come to life. o.O

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Maybe some of these things are true but we know a lot of them are false, either from reading the comics or doing research into the pre-production of the toyline. And some claims are contradicted by the voice actors and producers, while other would logically be up to other staff/producers/censors.

I agree. I'll still defend his work and what he did for TMNT although there are things you mentioned which sound untrue coming from David. I was looking at this interview and in terms of Krang I did find this quote by David:

You created a monumental character and story with Kraang, how did the idea of a giant brain who is also a warlord from Dimension X? Was it something you looked for in the original comic series?

The story behind the bad guys (Krang and Shredder) HAD to be monumental because there had to be enough material to potentially support 65 episodes (nobody dreamed at the time it would go on to six-zillion or whatever it wound up being). I always try to pull as much material from the original subject matter as possible, to maintain a feeling of fidelity to the original, but mainly because I’m lazy, so naturally I looked to the comics for material. But I didn’t find much, beyond “the Shredder” and the visual appearance of the Utroms, who inspired the look of Krang.

https://www.************************...series-writer/

This site doesn't like my link for some strange reason, just add the franchise name where those stars are, then .com. Not sure if it answers one of your questions but that's what he says on Krang.

He created one of my favourite cartoon shows of all time that made me like the franchise but I manage to separate the personality he has to his work. As a person I don't find him very nice and I'm sure he doesn't like me for my 'reading comprehension difficulties'. Yikes come on David I'm dyslexic, trying my best.

Originally Posted by Leo656

I have heard he's not a great guy. Why would you seek his attention at all? Because he once worked on something you enjoyed? That seems silly.

Well I thought he was cool to start off with but if you've ever heard how Harlan Ellison speaks to his fans some people love his rudeness, other snowflakes like me can't handle it.

Originally Posted by Leo656

Moral being: People who don't like you are best avoided, even if you still like or admire them. You're never going to "win them back", and any attempts to persuade them simply make one look foolish and desperate. You can be "polite" all day long and they're just going to use it against you.

I'll give one more example. Many months back I messaged David to wish him a late happy birthday. His response? "It's not". I explained I was a few weeks late and just found out. No response from him. That's David.

Originally Posted by Leo656

I'd be afraid to ask him what time it was, as he'd probably try and convince me that he invented the watch.

He'd probably ask why you're asking a stupid question. Talking to David is like talking to a more angry version of Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons. He's the kind of guy that points to trivia about a film or TV show and then says "Didn't you know that?! Didn't you know that?! Duh!"

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Leo656

He'd fit in perfectly in any pro wrestling locker room, with tall tales like that. "I sold out the Budokan, brother! But you probably weren't born yet and nobody there spoke English so you're gonna have to take my word for it."

Yeah, that all sounds like a mix of exaggeration and flat-out lies. I'm sure he had SOME input on that stuff but it's probably closer to what you said.

Yeah, the only thing I'm willing to give him 100% cred for is the Channel 6 news team, just beacause I don't see why a toy company would insist on creating a cameraman, a secretary and an editor.

[Leo656]

10 points for Harlan Ellison reference. Holy sh*t.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by Leo656

10 points for Harlan Ellison reference. Holy sh*t.

Me? Which bit?

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by pferreira

Me? Which bit?

Probably the way you phrased it. You had just described Wise as rude but that you could handle it, then went on to say someone like Ellison would actually have gotten to someone like you.

And I don't know if you know this but Harlan Ellison died a while back, you didn't describe him in past tense.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Probably the way you phrased it. You had just described Wise as rude but that you could handle it, then went on to say someone like Ellison would actually have gotten to someone like you.

Well to clarify David was rude to me a lot in his remarks so after a while I got used to it but some of the stuff David he said to me did upset me. My point about Ellison was that since he taught David everything he knew it's like he also passed onto David how to treat his fans. As I said some can handle that treatment, others like me can't.

Originally Posted by neatoman

And I don't know if you know this but Harlan Ellison died a while back, you didn't describe him in past tense.

Whoops, I knew that. Just my poor use of past and present tenses.

[Leo656]

Interacting with fans can be weird. I've had a few people with serious "boundary issues." Sometimes people get sassy for no reason, or try to talk to you like they "know" you before you've gotten that far with them yet. Some are flat-out rude. One chick grabbed my wiener, in front of my wife no less. People are nuts. I'm not even "famous"; just "Didn't I see you wrestle at the Elks Lodge last year?"-famous, and only within a driving distance of about 90 minutes in any direction within NJ. Otherwise I'm nobody. So I can only imagine what REAL famous people deal with day-to-day, week-to-week, and how draining that can be. It'll make you put your guard up, for sure, and sometimes you'll end up being really stand-offish by default.

I'm generally pretty nice to everyone, even if I'm a heel, but some people definitely grate on you. Like last weekend, at Intermission there was this kid at my table, and he didn't have any money and his Dad wouldn't buy him anything. And that's fine, whatever, but he just kept hanging around, and since I'm a "bad guy" was kept heckling and insulting me, y'know, and that's fine too, but he just wouldn't move on, and I could see several people who were about to stop by my table and possibly buy a T-shirt but instead kept walking because they saw this kid hanging around blocking the way. I still did alright, but at some point I started razzing him back because he was getting really annoying. I'm polite to a fault but if you're not gonna buy, just move aside, y'know?

Multiply things like that by 1000, I totally get why some people just have no patience for anyone anymore.