Pattinson/Reeves Batman Movie (Formerly Affleck Stand-Alone Film)

[Sumac]

Right now it looks kind of cheap.

Originally Posted by Galactus

Even Scumachers Bat-nipples didn't detract from the overall look but if they can screw up the basic look of Batman I have to wonder what else they can screw up.

It is WB.
Need I say more about their ability to screw up things?

[sdp]

Nolan's Batman didn't mind using guns, he was going to kill Joe Chill and in the canon animated movie Gotham Knight he learns to use a gun.

Costume looks fine but it's hard to mess up the costume I think, Reeves will be a good villain. I'm sure movie will be fine, but I'm still bitter on getting screwed out of an Affleck Batman movie and all the race changing.

[Leo656]

Oof, that's even worse than Bale's clunky suits. No bueno. Affleck's BvS suit was essentially perfect; I know they don't want to draw any more attention than is necessary to the whole ordeal they've been through, and that in their minds putting this dude in the Affleck-style suit would only draw more attention to the fact that it's a different actor, but they really threw the baby out with the bathwater on this one. For whatever else anyone said about that version of Batman, the suit was perfect. You can't do better than "That's exactly what the guy looks like in the comics", which is where they were at, so why would you make it worse on purpose?

Pretty obvious what they're thinking here: "What's the last Batman thing nobody bitched about too much? Those Nolan flicks? Okay, let's just copy that, then they'll like us!" Just like when they had Danny Elfman come in on Justice League and copy/paste all the old Superman and Batman music even though it didn't really fit. You can almost set your watch to their predictable and desperate decisions.

[IMJ]

At first glance all I saw was the cowl and I thought "maybe this will look great - like they are going for a fabric Batman outfit in it's purest form like what Sandy Collora did with Batman Dead End".

And then I scrolled and saw the rest of the pictures of a new batsuit made out of the wreckage of the Nolan-verse Batmobile. It makes zero sense to have a leather sewn cowl (you can see the seams for God's sake), but then go for a plated armor suit.

[Leo656]

As I said when they started announcing the cast: This is not a "movie"; this is a social experiment to see if they can do Every Single Thing Wrong and still make a billion dollars just because it's not being directed by "the guy everyone supposedly hates".

Sadly, I think they'll pull it off. They don't deserve to for making every bad decision they can, but I think people's curiosity will win out. Plus, you know a bunch of rubes will go see it hoping to get a glimpse of Phoenix as Joker again, even if they put "There Is No Joker In This Movie" on the poster, just because there's always a few of those kinda dimbulbs. I knew plenty of people who fully expected Ledger's Joker to be in DKR even though Heath was dead, and were shocked he wasn't in via deleted scene footage or something. They were legit upset that when they went to the theater that they didn't "Carrie Fisher" him into it. People are really stupid sometimes. I don't think it'll be a ton of people but I'm expecting a soft bump just from that kinda thing. "He won an Oscar, of COURSE they'll put him in the Batman movie!" At least on opening weekend.

Then again, you never know what the reaction to the movie will be. "Batman Begins" under-performed just because everyone hated "Batman and Robin" so much, even though it turned out to be great. One never can really tell which way these things are gonna go. I just know that my response to every single thing so far has been, "Nope."

[AquaParade]

I think it looks really cool. I have liked pretty much all the live action suits if I’m being honest. Maybe I’m easy to please in that sense, but it’s not that I don’t care. I do and I’m really digging this look. I love the collar.

That said, It’s hard for me to judge it in a vacuum. I may be more lenient on it, because I’m assuming this is a young Batman who is still working the concept of Batman out. It doesn’t need to be the definitive Batman suit for me. I think it’s a work in progress.

I keep trying to cut myself off from info about this film but I can’t. I just find it all so exciting. Anticipating a new Batman movie is a ton of fun for me.

Edit: here is a link to a fan-colored version on reddit. May not end up being accurate, but interesting nonetheless.

https://i.redd.it/gv0lt5oresg41.jpg

[AquaParade]

Edit: whoops

[IMJ]

The truth is that before I crystalize any real judgement in my head, I'm gonna need a trailer and to see how he's moving in this flick. At this point, I'd have taken an all montage, Batman in motion action Affleck flick with three minutes of dialog and been happy.

[Leo656]

I think the whole "He's gonna be a detective this time" is partly to lower the audience's expectations on the fight scenes.

I mean let's be real... that warehouse scene in BvS is gonna be pretty hard for anyone to top anytime soon as far as Batman fight scenes go. You get the feeling that version of Batman could beat up Keaton, Kilmer, Clooney and Bale all at once. Dude was a f*cking beast. Even that extended single-shot fight scene in the desert was pretty spectacular, especially because they weren't hiding anything with edits and jump cuts, and it was shot in daylight. Just framing and choreography and one long, single-camera shot. Really slick piece of business.

I'll honestly be surprised if anyone else can get an action-oriented Batman to look as good onscreen anytime soon. Not saying the action scenes will be "bad", but I think "We're focusing more on the detective side" is to kind of temper peoples' expectations, at least a little bit. And that makes perfect sense; if you can't do something better than the guy(s) you're replacing, go the other way and see where it gets you. Not the worst strategy.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Obviously Batman has always been anti-gun (except when he hasn't been) but if that's true... kind of makes me worry for what this movie is going to be up to.

I suspect it will be heavy on melodrama. Gravelly voice - "I wear the gun that killed my parents close to my heart so I never forget what was taken from me". Batman can have a sense of melodrama for me but if I'm right stuff like that would be over the top.

Originally Posted by sdp

Nolan's Batman didn't mind using guns, he was going to kill Joe Chill and in the canon animated movie Gotham Knight he learns to use a gun..

After Rachel shamed him with his speech about justice vs vengeance and how his parents would be ashamed of him for wanting to kill Joe Chill he throws the gum into the river. I think we're supposed to interpret that as he rejecting firearms and murder.

In Rises he knocks the gun out of Catwoman's hands and if I remember correctly says something like "no guns" hence why when she shoots Bane she says "about the whole no gins thing I don't feel as strongly about it as you do".

Originally Posted by Leo656

Oof, that's even worse than Bale's clunky suits. No bueno. Affleck's BvS suit was essentially perfect; I know they don't want to draw any more attention than is necessary to the whole ordeal they've been through, and that in their minds putting this dude in the Affleck-style suit would only draw more attention to the fact that it's a different actor, but they really threw the baby out with the bathwater on this one.

At least Nolan's suits made sense for the type of movies they were. He was going for a more 'realistic' approach. It's possible that likewise when we see this movie it will all click into place and we'll be "oh I get why the suit is like that" and it will work in the context of the movie...though I'm not holding my breath for that to happen.

They could have given Pattison a Year One suit which is basically a slimmer version of DKR inspired Batsuit ffrom BvS. I think that would work in any context.

Originally Posted by Sumac

It is WB.
Need I say more about their ability to screw up things?

Thing is Batman solo movies are the one thing WB has been consistently getting right for the past few decades. If it turns out they can no longer do Batman correctly then what hope is there?

That maybe a little unfair. After all they've had successes with Shazam and Aquaman and while I'm not optimistic I wouldn't write off the Wonder Woman franchise just yet. Still, conceptually Superman and Batman are the key foundations for the DC universe especially if they are going to go back to a shared universe concept and since Cavill and Affleck or no longer a thing as far as WB is concerned that's going to be extremely difficult to sort out and there's only so many stand alones, loosely canonical or Jokers or Pattinson Batmans they can get away with...especially if some of them or not very good.

[Leo656]

The Nolan suits were practical and "realistic", but they were ugly, and looked nothing like the comic book. I love the films for the plot and the acting, but I only liked the Begins suit even a little bit. The others looked like someone covered him in glue and rolled him in broken glass.

Affleck's suit was functional beyond anything we've ever seen AND looked exactly like the comic book. Nothing but Win. Absolutely anything else is a step backwards no matter how they explain it "in universe". They always used to make excuses and say, "Well, obviously we can't make it look like the comic book, so we had to compromise." Fine for back then, but this is now, and Snyder "ruined" that excuse for everyone by actually doing what everyone said couldn't be done. So now it's two steps backwards, just because? Nah, not a fan. They can explain it however they want, it's just not good. We've seen they can do better, thus, their responsibility is to always aim that high. No more "We can't make it perfect." We're past that now. Believe me, I "get" what they're going for, I just totally don't agree with it.

This is like, "We can't do 'better', so let's just do 'Different' and hope that's enough for people to forgive us for our shortcomings," like I was getting at before. And also a little bit of, "Hopefully this will make people think of the Nolan movies," which is definitely on purpose. I mean aside from the collar and the bat emblem it's almost exactly the same from what's visible, except even more clunky. Didn't like it then, don't like it now.

[Turo602]

Robert Pattinson's Batman.

[AquaParade]

I don't believe this is Matt Reeve's saying "we can't do better, so let's do different."

I think it is him trying to make something appropriate for the story and world he is crafting.
All great Batman films have had a vision that drives the story and aesthetic and lead to a strong sense of atmosphere. Burton's dark & sexy fairytale world, Nolan's hard realism. The suits played into those visions.

The Snyder suit is a treasure. It's a perfect translation of one of the many iconic Batman comic book looks. It looks like it popped right out of a comic. Personally, I'm not married to it though. I do like seeing different things on screen, when they are good. I don't necessarily want the same vision over and over even if it was a great vision. Creativity is fun. New things are fun. Just my imo.
If "different" is wrong then I don't want to be right.

I can empathize with the complaint that some of these live action suits are ugly or not what some people might want. They tend to be bold, distinct, and polarizing. But again, I appreciate the visionaries that tend to be behind the best Batman movies, and I want to allow them the freedom to craft a cohesive world with a strong sense of identity.

These films are at their best when the pieces play together nicely. A Batman that fits this Gotham, this story, and this world. I'll take that over a direct translation for the sake of giving comic fans a boner, including myself. I think it leads to a cohesive film.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Galactus

Thing is Batman solo movies are the one thing WB has been consistently getting right for the past few decades. If it turns out they can no longer do Batman correctly then what hope is there?

That maybe a little unfair. After all they've had successes with Shazam and Aquaman and while I'm not optimistic I wouldn't write off the Wonder Woman franchise just yet. Still, conceptually Superman and Batman are the key foundations for the DC universe especially if they are going to go back to a shared universe concept and since Cavill and Affleck or no longer a thing as far as WB is concerned that's going to be extremely difficult to sort out and there's only so many stand alones, loosely canonical or Jokers or Pattinson Batmans they can get away with...especially if some of them or not very good.

WB has an uncanny ability to **** all over their successes as quickly as possible. So while I hope they will be successful, I have little doubt that they will find a way to screw themselves again and again.

[IMJ]

The gun thing making the bat symbol is terrible....

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by IMJ

The gun thing making the bat symbol is terrible....

Are you referring to the general look of the Bat logo or the tweet going around that is assuming that the logo is in fact made up of the gun that killed his parents? Because if it is the latter, that is spreading like wildfire into factual information, but I'm pretty sure it's incorrect.

Quite honestly, it looks more like a tool or weapon, but not a memoriam for his parents, which btw, isn't the lamest idea in the world considering what drives the man. Is that so much more goofy than dressing up as a Bat? I think it could be poetic. Just depends on how you handle it. But again, I think it's a tool or weapon, not something related to his parents.

And frankly, freaking anything is better than a goddamn Bat logo on Batman, if you ask me. It takes a lot of creative justifications like "it's meant to be a bulletproof distraction!" to even make the thing work in the comics.
The only time it ever worked was in Morrison's "Batman incorporated" when Batman was literally building a Batman brand. Now that is brilliant creative problem solving. Other than that, it's only good for merchandise and toys.
So I say, if you can find a way to make the "logo" something practical that pays homage to the Bat symbol, as opposed to being more concerned with getting the most faithful or perfect looking visual of a Bat, then go for it.

To those that cry sacrilege at the idea of Batman not having a perfect Batman logo "just like in the comics!", I'd check them at the door with Bill Finger's Batman. Do we still use the purple gloves? No. Do we still use the "ears" that actually resemble a bat? No. Don't be so afraid to let these characters change and evolve, while maintaining what makes them great. It's how they survive the generations. And let me tell you, it's not a logo on his chest that makes Batman special.

To those who just plain ol' think it looks fugly and mechanical, and simply can't get over the visual fidelity of the suit being compromised, I sympathize. I'm not here to hand wave away any complaints. Some people's main concern is seeing the suit done right up on the screen. Seeing things they like in the comics presented as faithful as humanly possible on the big screen. Those are valid wishes, I just don't share them. My comics are my comics and my movies are my movies.

(Fun fact: Kevin Smith just recently wrote a comic in which the logo is, in fact, melded from the gun of Joe Chill. So that idea seems to be in the zeitgeist lately. I thought it was pretty damn silly but a lot of people dug it.)

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

Are you referring to the general look of the Bat logo or the tweet going around that is assuming that the logo is in fact made up of the gun that killed his parents? Because if it is the latter, that is spreading like wildfire into factual information, but I'm pretty sure it's incorrect.

I saw this "Emergency Awesome" guy's Youtube video and he talked about it there.

From the closeups, it looks like it could be true.

-meh- Yes, it's logical and clever, I get it. -meh-

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by IMJ

I saw this "Emergency Awesome" guy's Youtube video and he talked about it there.

From the closeups, it looks like it could be true.

-meh- Yes, it's logical and clever, I get it. -meh-

Thanks for sharing the link. I get a kick out of the guy because he is so often wrong, but I do find entertainment from some of his videos. And he could very much be right here, I don't know. I can't watch the video now.

And yeah, I can understand your preference in this situation. I don't always need things to be 100% practical, but I am okay with letting the suit serve the world and vision that is being crafted, as opposed to the other way around.

Couple more thoughts:

- The Michael Giacchino musical score, used in teaser, sounds very promising.

- Again, I love that collar around the neck. I've been loving that look in the comics, where we have seen it everywhere from Sean Murphy's Batman: White Knight and Morrison's Damian Wayne Batman, way back to "Gotham by Gaslight". It gives a very sinister, Dracula-like vibe, which is a no-brainer when you think about it. Why shouldn't Batman take some inspiration from the most famous "Bat-Man" of all time?

Damian Wayne - Batman:


Batman: White Knight:


Gotham by Gaslight:

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by IMJ

The gun thing making the bat symbol is terrible....

And impractical. When it gets damaged, what does he do? Melt down another gun?

[IMJ]

I just think we've had too many variations and "revinventions" of aspects of Batman as a character on film, without ever having a comic book accurate character done.

Affleck was as close as we've gotten, but that was mostly because of the fights. I hate to say this, but they need to give up on their "ego adaptations" and pretty much just adapt Batman the Animated Series. Put a guy in a fabric costume and get over it.

None of this is to say that this won't be a decent movie - it could be. But I'm just sayin'.....