Pattinson/Reeves Batman Movie (Formerly Affleck Stand-Alone Film)

[Leo656]

Better than the second Telltale video game, where he was f*cking HARLEY'S lackey.

I like the gameplay in those things but if they got any further away from the Batman canon they'd be... I'unno... whatever the polar opposite of Batman is. Watching BANE of all people take orders from Harley Quinn was painful. Maybe Margot Robbie produced that game, too?

Regardless, Bane shouldn't be anyone's lackey ("secretly" or no) and it irritates me that "Muscle Monster = Dumb Second Banana" by default. Lazy and ignorant.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Better than the second Telltale video game, where he was f*cking HARLEY'S lackey.

I think I would've uninstalled the game immediately at that point and found some way to get my money back.

Regardless, Bane shouldn't be anyone's lackey ("secretly" or no) and it irritates me that "Muscle Monster = Dumb Second Banana" by default. Lazy and ignorant.

True, but at least in TDKR it was done with careful consideration to serve the script. Goyer knows well who Bane is, but they had to weave in that last surprise in some way that it would make sense for Bane to have that kind of relationship with Talia. Talia was always going to be the big reveal. At least his lackeyness was because of love towards Talia (something that IS in the comics) and not just... you know, following Poison Ivy around going "BOMB!"

But yes, sign me up for the big Bane movie, where he's the main villain, serves no one, is as smart as Batman and takes venom.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I think I would've uninstalled the game immediately at that point and found some way to get my money back.



True, but at least in TDKR it was done with careful consideration to serve the script. Goyer knows well who Bane is, but they had to weave in that last surprise in some way that it would make sense for Bane to have that kind of relationship with Talia. Talia was always going to be the big reveal. At least his lackeyness was because of love towards Talia (something that IS in the comics) and not just... you know, following Poison Ivy around going "BOMB!"

But yes, sign me up for the big Bane movie, where he's the main villain, serves no one, is as smart as Batman and takes venom.

I still have difficulty with his strength levels in that flick though. I can see how they changed his facemask gas from Venom to basically a pain numbing agent due to his injuries. And I get how feeling no pain would allow you a little leeway to physically push your body beyond the threshold that you would normally stop at if you were feeling the pain. But this would not allow you to punch through concrete pylons.

But again, like I said elsewhere, we can find ways to criticize anything. But even so. Pain numbing. Concrete pylons. Seriously?

[Leo656]

Andrew: Literally everyone except Riddler was Harley's lackey in that game. Even the Joker was really just her pussy-whipped puppy dog rather than a psychotic evil genius.

The gameplay was GREAT in those two games but the storyline was pretty awful. Lucky for them I really like the gameplay enough to forgive an awful lot.
The whole plot was like someone's bad fanfiction, with a mission statement of "Let's just go the complete polar opposite of the comics in every way possible." And if you try and sell me on the idea that the stuff in the source material needs dramatic amounts of "fixing", I'm already mad at you.

I'm assuming that a ton of people feel the same as I do, because they left it wide open for a third one but they only made two and then the company went out of business. Otherwise I'm at a loss for how a company goes broke while doing "Batman". Maybe don't try and get all cute with it? Couldn't hurt.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by IMJ

I still have difficulty with his strength levels in that flick though. I can see how they changed his facemask gas from Venom to basically a pain numbing agent due to his injuries. And I get how feeling no pain would allow you a little leeway to physically push your body beyond the threshold that you would normally stop at if you were feeling the pain. But this would not allow you to punch through concrete pylons.

Sarah Connor:
What about when he punched through the windshield?

Detective Vukovich:
He was probably on PCP. Broke every bone in his hand and wouldn't feel it for hours.

[Leo656]

So... Bane was on PCP? This movie makes more sense now.

Although not as much as it would if you told me that Goyer was on PCP. That I'd believe.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Leo656

So... Bane was on PCP? This movie makes more sense now.

We don't know WHAT he was on, other than it seemed to neutralize pain. May have even been some kind of slow release steroid cocktail mix.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

We don't know WHAT he was on, other than it seemed to neutralize pain. May have even been some kind of slow release steroid cocktail mix.

More secret Ra's Al Ghul flower mix.

[Andrew NDB]

More on why Affleck "walked away from The Batman":

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/m...n-affleck.html

Except the article writer doesn't seem to draw a distinction between "The Batman" that Affleck wrote the script for and was set to direct and "The Batman" that Reeves wrote and is directing. Affleck walked away from his own version of the film (and he's told us why before, because directing and starring in a film that size would be too much for him... this interview seems to reinforce that), he didn't walk away from the Reeves version, which he was just set to act. That was yanked from under him.

[AquaParade]

After rewatching Batman Begins, my appreciation for it only grows. For the most part. There is some cheese in the script that is hard to describe properly but feels very proper for comic adaptions of that time period.
Still, an incredibly lovely film. What a treat for Batman fans, after having suffered the previous couple of films at the time. Seriously wish I remember the ass-kicking it must have given me on first viewing.

That said, holy crud, does anyone remember the scene, near the end, where one of Bruce's guests attempts to introduce him to Rhas?
She walks Bruce up to him, only to stare blankly as Bruce proclaims to the man that he watched the real Rhas perish in a fire. Just then, the TRUE (Liam Neelson) Rhas appears from behind the trio to pronounce his actual identity. The lady who tried to introduce them... casually turns and walks away.
It's damn hilarious.

They should have had her walk away ten seconds earlier because the humor doesn't seem intentional whatsoever.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

After rewatching Batman Begins, my appreciation for it only grows. For the most part. There is some cheese in the script that is hard to describe properly but feels very proper for comic adaptions of that time period.
Still, an incredibly lovely film. What a treat for Batman fans, after having suffered the previous couple of films at the time. Seriously wish I remember the ass-kicking it must have given me on first viewing.

That said, holy crud, does anyone remember the scene, near the end, where one of Bruce's guests attempts to introduce him to Rhas?
She walks Bruce up to him, only to stare blankly as Bruce proclaims to the man that he watched the real Rhas perish in a fire. Just then, the TRUE (Liam Neelson) Rhas appears from behind the trio to pronounce his actual identity. The lady who tried to introduce them... casually turns and walks away.
It's damn hilarious.

They should have had her walk away ten seconds earlier because the humor doesn't seem intentional whatsoever.

I remember sitting in the theater watching it, sort of chuckling with joy and amazement when Batman is yellling at Flass in the rain with the "swear to me!"

It was great...

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by IMJ

I remember sitting in the theater watching it, sort of chuckling with joy and amazement when Batman is yellling at Flass in the rain with the "swear to me!"

It was great...

I can totally imagine chuckling with joy upon seeing that.

Reflecting more, I really find TDK to be a step up to another level when it comes to acting, pacing, script. A lot of the goofy bits, that now look like Nolan trying to get a grasp on the genre, are sanded off. Without the need to compare though, great film.

[Andrew NDB]

It was a little bit annoying how one day we were all supposed to hate the Bale Batman voice all of a sudden. It wasn't a perfect voice by any means but it was fine.

"Why can't he sound like Kevin Conroy, Kevin Conroy is the Batman voice to beat, blah blah blah." Stop it!

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

It was a little bit annoying how one day we were all supposed to hate the Bale Batman voice all of a sudden. It wasn't a perfect voice by any means but it was fine.

"Why can't he sound like Kevin Conroy, Kevin Conroy is the Batman voice to beat, blah blah blah." Stop it!

Ehh... I dont know man, the Bale voice in TDK was pretty awful. It was so exagerrated that he had to take these gasping, intermittent breaths just to get a sentence out. On that note, I love Kevin Conroy - he's inextricable from Batman now, but I will say that what they did with Afflecks Batman voice with the modification device was really, really great. Terrific even. So much lost potential there with the DCEU.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by IMJ

I will say that what they did with Afflecks Batman voice with the modification device was really, really great. Terrific even. So much lost potential there with the DCEU.

It was such a great, no-brainer idea. "Batman makes a voice changer doo-hicky for the suit." Done. Had it never been done before?

[Leo656]

I think the biggest difference with Bale's voice was that in Begins, it wasn't being modified in post-production, while the next one started dialing it way up to the point of parody. The idea that he would use a "scary voice" while in-gimmick was always very sound, to me. I mean in the comics, at least early on whenever they introduce Batman "Year One"-style, part of the gimmick is generally keeping people confused about whether he's real or even human. Sounding "demonic" would obviously help in that. I liked it best in Begins where it at least sounded less purposely exaggerated and, as others have said, labored. "Because YOU... were the BEST... of USSSSS...." Settle down, guy. I liked the idea a lot, but the execution was up and down from one scene to the next.

I think how they did it with Affleck was really great. I mean, they were already using electronic tinkering on Bale's voice without it being the character's in-universe idea; why NOT just go one step further and have Bruce himself come up with it? That's even better; if you're gonna exaggerate the voice so blatantly, at least make it part of the story and not just a "questionable" acting choice.

As for it being done before in the comics or elsewhere, I think so but I'm not entirely sure. I know that it's generally comic book canon that Bruce Wayne and Batman sound nothing alike, but how they generally achieve that I don't know.

The article isn't entirely wrong about Ben's disappointment in how the role was handled; by all accounts, he was having fun with BvS but things turned sour when the reception was so mixed and WB was already panicking, trying to change the story that had been planned out. Ben has been very candid that he did NOT want to do any more super-hero movies after Daredevil, and that it was specifically Zack's story that enticed him to take the role; he signed on for a project that almost immediately got changed into something completely different. Of course he was pissy about doing Justice League; that movie was not at ALL what he originally signed up for. I maintain that the movie is a harmless if generic and superficial romp, but "generic super-hero movie #195" was NOT what Affleck signed on for. Once it became obvious that WB weren't going to be keeping up their end of the deal, he lost his taste for the entire affair. Can anyone seriously blame him? He pretty much got bait-and-switched. I'm sad that he never got to do his solo movie - REALLY sad - but I can't blame him for not having his heart in it anymore. Given his personal issues at the time, it was probably a wise decision, even though it's really disappointing.

Every time I read "Venom", I can't help but think about how hard he would have f*cking crushed that role. Or even "Hush". I love Bale a ton, but Affleck, to me, is now the Batman I see and hear in my head when I read comics. Such a shame it was cut short so early.

[AquaParade]

I never had a big of a problem with Bale’s vocal performance as the rest of the world. I buy it as a method to instill fear and/or disguise his voice, but perhaps it was difficult to capture on film without appearing silly, because it does stand out sometimes. Even in Batman Begins - “It’s not who I am that defines me, but what I DDDooOoooooo”.

I also agree that the voice-modulation was a brilliant idea. Can’t recall if it was in the comics first, but worth exploring.

[Leo656]

Not a big deal to me either, but definitely unintentionally comedic at times. I didn't have a problem with it until people started pointing it out, then I was like "Yeah, I don't quite feel as strongly, but I feel you."

For me the voice wasn't as funny as the way he'd be catching flies with his mouth half the time in between sentences. That cowl must have been tough to breathe in, or something.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Not a big deal to me either, but definitely unintentionally comedic at times. I didn't have a problem with it until people started pointing it out, then I was like "Yeah, I don't quite feel as strongly, but I feel you."

For me the voice wasn't as funny as the way he'd be catching flies with his mouth half the time in between sentences. That cowl must have been tough to breathe in, or something.

Ya know, that’s actually what does sort of stand out about that “Begins” line I just posted, over the voice itself. That gaping maw. Being an issue with the suit itself is a good guess.

[Leo656]

I *think* I read that it was tough to breathe through his nose and thus he had to have his mouth open a lot. I know for a fact that he said the suit in general was very uncomfortable and he channeled that into his performance. But I'm almost positive that the breathing thing was part of it. Not 100%, but pretty sure.

It's like, whenever I see Affleck's suit, I'm amazed by how perfect it is, how functional it is compared to all the others before it, and how long it took to get so far. Because I thought Bale's was pretty good in Begins - I'm on record as having a lot less affection for the second and third suits - but altogether I figured "Eh, it's as close as they can probably do" but it was still pretty much a clunker. And then for Ben they finally get it as "right" as they can and made it look so easy.

I mean, given the nature of these things I'm sure it wasn't altogether very "comfortable", but he (and his stunt guys) quite obviously had a much easier time moving and breathing in it than the others did. One of those "Man, why didn't we come up with this forever ago?" kinda things, for sure.