Are the TMMT really superheroes?

[Mattkind]

They fight Super Villains they are Superheroes

[Kingoji]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Yeah, Marvel pretty much already proved the opposite with Civil War. EVERY individual who was a "cape", whether mutant, masked vigilante, actual powered individual, or what have you, had to register under the SHRA. DC (IIRC) tried to do something similar, though without reading their books, I don't know much about it. But if the FF, Punisher, Hawkeye and Black Widow could all fall under that law, so would the TMNT. Wolverine would have, as well. This is why Thing moved to Paris during that time- he REFUSED to take part in either side! And the pro-SHRA side was literally locking up ANY "cape" who didn't comply- even if they had NO powers at all, or were mutants. If the TMNT were in that universe (as seems possible there might be a version of them there, given Daredevil's inadvertent contribution to their origins in Mirage canon) then they'd have been served with the same ultimatum- sign, or get locked up.

Actually, if I remember right, pretty much all mutants (definitely the X-folk) refused to get drawn into the Civil War, since registration was something they had been fighting for years when the SHRA was brought into effect, based on the same values as they always had: No-one should be forced to be registered onto a government programme for observation, exploitation, imprisonment, or worse, for the simple fact that they were born.

Back on-topic; Really it all comes down to personal definition. Super-heroes have dominated the western comics scene for so long that they practically define it, especially anything that is published by the Big Two, regardless of an individual character's situation. Punisher isn't a super-hero, but is often regarded to be so by general audiences simply by reason of his being the main character in a crime-fighter series that exists in the same Universe as actual super-heroes. Yet Batman and Iron Man are super-heroes despite being essentially the same thing.
What differentiates them to me though, is that Batman and Iron Man are exceptional individuals; one was born with an intelligence and inventiveness that borders on a superpower in itself; the kind of brilliance that has to be made up for writers to be able to work with them. The other has dedicated his entire existence to becoming the very peak of what a human being can become at this point of evolution, trained and learned and developed skills in any area he could find until he became far more than anyone could ever really be. And of course, both were so independently wealthy that they could afford to do any of this in the first place. And the Punisher is street level, operating out of abandoned buildings or low-rent apartments in run down areas, bringing real-world wartime experience to his mission to destroy crime. He doesn't do it to make the world a better place, or for justice, or because he believes that one day there will be a world without crime, he does it because he's so damaged that he has nothing else left.

Similarly, we look at characters like the Guardians of the Galaxy as super-heroes, when they aren't. They're a group of individuals that just happen to exist into a different set of circumstances than we can accept; fantastic to us, every-day to them. They're really no different from the cast of Star Wars, but no-one would ever define them as super-heroes, despite some actually possessing superpowers.

It's in that latter category that I place the TMNT. Yes, they exist in fantastic circumstances; yes, they share their universe with superpowered individuals, but they are simply who they are, and how they were born. They're kids trying to get by. They're trained as highly-skilled ninjas, but not so well trained as they dominate every fight they're in. And they're heroes, sure, but not super-heroes... which is why when they do meet actual super-heroes they react so wildly to them.

And despite originating in comics, most general audiences will always consider TMNT to be a franchise series, existing equally as TV and Toy defined, with everything else spinning out of those. It's false, obviously, but the original comic will rarely be what audiences think of when they hear TMNT, but the original comic will always be a big part of what audiences think of when they hear Spider-Man, or The Flash.
TMNT will always be regarded alongside Transformers, He-Man, Thundercats or GI Joe before JLA or FF.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by Kingoji

Actually, if I remember right, pretty much all mutants (definitely the X-folk) refused to get drawn into the Civil War, since registration was something they had been fighting for years when the SHRA was brought into effect, based on the same values as they always had: No-one should be forced to be registered onto a government programme for observation, exploitation, imprisonment, or worse, for the simple fact that they were born.

Back on-topic; Really it all comes down to personal definition. Super-heroes have dominated the western comics scene for so long that they practically define it, especially anything that is published by the Big Two, regardless of an individual character's situation. Punisher isn't a super-hero, but is often regarded to be so by general audiences simply by reason of his being the main character in a crime-fighter series that exists in the same Universe as actual super-heroes. Yet Batman and Iron Man are super-heroes despite being essentially the same thing.
What differentiates them to me though, is that Batman and Iron Man are exceptional individuals; one was born with an intelligence and inventiveness that borders on a superpower in itself; the kind of brilliance that has to be made up for writers to be able to work with them. The other has dedicated his entire existence to becoming the very peak of what a human being can become at this point of evolution, trained and learned and developed skills in any area he could find until he became far more than anyone could ever really be. And of course, both were so independently wealthy that they could afford to do any of this in the first place. And the Punisher is street level, operating out of abandoned buildings or low-rent apartments in run down areas, bringing real-world wartime experience to his mission to destroy crime. He doesn't do it to make the world a better place, or for justice, or because he believes that one day there will be a world without crime, he does it because he's so damaged that he has nothing else left.

Similarly, we look at characters like the Guardians of the Galaxy as super-heroes, when they aren't. They're a group of individuals that just happen to exist into a different set of circumstances than we can accept; fantastic to us, every-day to them. They're really no different from the cast of Star Wars, but no-one would ever define them as super-heroes, despite some actually possessing superpowers.

It's in that latter category that I place the TMNT. Yes, they exist in fantastic circumstances; yes, they share their universe with superpowered individuals, but they are simply who they are, and how they were born. They're kids trying to get by. They're trained as highly-skilled ninjas, but not so well trained as they dominate every fight they're in. And they're heroes, sure, but not super-heroes... which is why when they do meet actual super-heroes they react so wildly to them.

And despite originating in comics, most general audiences will always consider TMNT to be a franchise series, existing equally as TV and Toy defined, with everything else spinning out of those. It's false, obviously, but the original comic will rarely be what audiences think of when they hear TMNT, but the original comic will always be a big part of what audiences think of when they hear Spider-Man, or The Flash.
TMNT will always be regarded alongside Transformers, He-Man, Thundercats or GI Joe before JLA or FF.

I agree with a lot of this, and in fact, these were some of my exact points, though worded slightly differently. However, though TMNT MAY not be thought of as superheroes in the traditional sense, the term is broad enough with the inclusion of characters such as the X-Men (and you were spot-on about their lack of participation in the SHRA- they were DEAD against it), Iron Man or Batman, it would appear that the TMNT also fall into that very broad range of characters as well- in fact, like Wolverine, they could actually qualify on two separate counts- being both mutants (many of whom typically have powers of some sort, but even those that don't are still given that label) and for their special training, much like Hawkeye or Black Widow.

Add in Donatello's genius and tech abilities, their general strength (in the OT, at least, they were able to knock over a brick wall onto Foot robots in the first episode), and the fact that they frequently deal with enemies that would be a challenge even for the likes of Spider-Man, Flash, or whomever, then yes, they would certainly qualify. The fact that they do it without the benefit of any obvious "powers" makes it all the more amazing. But then, Doctor Doom has occasionally been defeated by the likes of Squirrel Girl, so that just shows how off-the-wall the superhero genre can get, and is another reason why the TMNT fit right in with it.

[Mew]

The TMNT are OBVIOUSLY superheroes.

See?

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by MewMeow

The TMNT are OBVIOUSLY superheroes.
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...20080626023945
See?

There was an episode from the 2k3 series, Titled Super Power Struggle, Mikey puts a magic cape on Raph, And it gave him superpowers.

[turtlefanforever]

Originally Posted by MewMeow

The TMNT are OBVIOUSLY superheroes.
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...20080626023945
See?

Now I have to watch the whole series over again.

[IndigoErth]

Well maybe Mikey is the only 'official' one to some degree.

But everyone is allowed to have other recreation, hobbies, etc. in addition to what they 'do for a living.'

Would they individually appreciate a "superhero" title however.

[Mew]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

There was an episode from the 2k3 series, Titled Super Power Struggle, Mikey puts a magic cape on Raph, And it gave him superpowers.

TurtleTitan is Raph?
I thought he was Mikey!

[Bravotello]

I would say they're superheros. Just not all official like the avengers and xmen are. More like Wolverine before he became an Xmen, he kind of just did his own thing. I forget whether Wolverine was a bad guy or not before he joined Xmen, I think he was more of an anti hero. Basically though I see the TMNT as Independent hero's who don't work for anybody, they just do what they feel is right. The only one who fits the official Super Hero bill would be Michelangelo because he is an honorary member of the justice force and maybe Raphael.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by MewMeow

TurtleTitan is Raph?
I thought he was Mikey!

No, Mikey is TurtleTitan, he found a cape, Puts it on Raph, and it gave him super powers.

[Mew]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

No, Mikey is TurtleTitan, he found a cape, Puts it on Raph, and it gave him super powers.

Oh.
Good.

[Mick]

I would consider them superheroes. They live on pizza, that's a unique superhero ability.

[Luckyday]

Them being warm blooded should be a consider a super power along with them having human like sentience, which itself a gray area with some people.


They kinda have a "alien raised by humans" thing going on with Splinter teaching them human-centered values and philosophies.

[Shark_Blade]

Are mutants from X-Men superheroes? Yeah. So is TMNT.

[Andrew NDB]

They are superheroes in the children's spinoffs. But they aren't supposed to be, no.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by Shark_Blade

Are mutants from X-Men superheroes? Yeah. So is TMNT.

That's not a good comparison. They're both two entirely different types of mutants and have different lifestyles and moral codes from each other. You're basically saying "all mutants are the same."

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Shark_Blade

Are mutants from X-Men superheroes?

One of the X-Men, Xorn, once ordered that humans be filed into crematoriums. While on Drugs. Disguised as a holocaust survivor.

[dragonside]

if we base them on super humans then it doesn't quite make sense because its a little bit of apples and oranges.

They are turtles that gained the form and strengths/weaknesses of humans.

Gotta say.. that's pretty super.

I would consider Batman a superhero... so why not Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

They fight all sorts of threats to The City, Earth, Dimensions.

It's not about necessarily how super their accomplishments are, but what they decide to do with their talents.

[Last Ronin]

It says it in the song.

Heroes in a half shell turtle power.

So yeah, superheroes.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

They are superheroes in the children's spinoffs. But they aren't supposed to be, no.

So if they not portrayed as crime fighters, which I honestly don't mind because them being mutants outcast is intriguing conflict of itself, they are 80% of the time just walking chaos magnets that sometimes fight ninjas because reasons.