Marvel's The Eternals

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Galactus

Interesting that this is being compared to the DCEU movies particularly the Justice League Snyder cut. Since they never got into detail about what it is exactly that is evocative of that movie (although I could hazard some guesses).

Is it? That's interesting, if weird. I confess I'd only read a very few specific reviews, but so far I hadn't seen or heard anything like that. I've seen it compared to other MCU films, naturally, but I hadn't seen anyone mention any DC films at all, specifically that one.

Also, most people liked Zack Snyder's Justice League and most people seem to dislike this movie so far, so that still seems like an odd comparison for anyone to make. Other than I have seen people say both movies were "too long" and "rather self-serious", but even that says little in the grand scheme of things.

But again, the only few reviews I did read in detail for this movie, were from some of the more "liberal" media outlets, and only because I was shocked that their blurb was negative and so I figured I'd see what they felt was so bad about it, since all the dudes kissing, race-flipped characters and whatnot wasn't enough for them to score it high. Like, I thought for sure Those People would celebrate this movie even if others didn't. So when I saw that they didn't, I was like "Okay, lemme see what they said, then." All told, I think it was three reviews altogether that I read. So, not very many.

Originally Posted by Galactus

Makes you wonder if their support of the DCUE was largely due to contrarianism and brand loyalty. (Except for you Leo656 I know you're a true blue fan of that stuff.)

I do love me some Zack, just in general. It's like Lynch, I haven't seen every single thing he's done but everything I have seen I'm a big fan of. Different guy, different style, same basic thing.

I really, really can't stress enough how impressed I was by "Legend of the Guardians: The Owls of Ga'Hoole". Not even a DC movie, not even a "real" movie (rather a CGI animated kids' movie). Turns out I just really like the way he rolls and the subject matter is not entirely relevant. I mean, it helps; I'm more connected to his DC stuff because I'm more invested in DC in general. But in the grand scheme of things it turned out that I just plain like his style.

Same with Lynch. At one point, I thought "Maybe it's just Twin Peaks. I might not like his other stuff." So far, though, all Aces with me. I even liked "Wild At Heart", and I can only even tolerate Nicolas Cage on a good day. Some guys, I'll watch them direct any damn thing just because I sincerely enjoy their method and execution.
---------

In my personal experience though, I haven't seen or met anyone insincerely claiming to like the DC movies just to be "contrarian". It takes some brass to even admit out loud that you like those movies, on the internet. It only invites insults, so to say it and not mean it would be... questionable. Brand loyalty? Eh, kinda doubt that too. Pretty much nobody even tries to defend Wonder Woman 1984, just for example. I don't think I even know anyone who's seen ALL the recent DC movies, and I definitely don't know anyone who liked them all just because they said "DC" on them. I can't even get a few people to watch "Aquaman" or "Shazam" because they think the trailers made them seem too silly; definitely no "brand loyalty" going on over there with those individuals.

I really do think it's as simple as a lot of the people who like DC movies better are a lot like me: they just have more specific tastes and those tastes tend to run counter to the mainstream, and further, they resent being told either 1. There's only one "right way" to make super-hero movies (the "make them as silly as possible because hey, they wear capes" way), or 2. That liking what they like makes them some kind of idiot, which we've seen a lot of over the last eight years.

Naturally, when people constantly say those things to you, and then hold up something you really do not like much as an example of how "Things SHOULD Be", you occasionally get a bit forceful and defensive with the pushback. You might even get a bit resentful of That Other Thing, and it makes you dig in a little deeper. But that doesn't in and of itself imply that their likes are in any way insincere. More like they really do feel the way they feel, and people constantly telling them they're "wrong" for it is what makes them push back harder than necessary at times.

At least, that's been my experience in discussing comic book movies over the past decade. Most of my friends are DC People; movies or comics, they just prefer that type of presentation, is all. AND, they just plain wish that was "allowed", and since it isn't, they get annoyed and defensive sometimes. Because we're all only human, at the end of the day.

I can't speak for everyone, obviously. In my circle, though, and speaking only for myself and them... if we're hanging out at Denny's having deep, analytical conversations about those movies that are longer than the movies themselves, and we don't actually care as much as we say we do... then we're kind of a bunch of stupid assholes, no?

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Galactus

Other than the character lineup being diverse I'm not sure what makes this movie anymore 'woke' than your average modern day Hollywood blockbuster.

From what I understand, the Eternals from the comics are all straight white people. Now usually nowadays, you get an adaptation and maybe 1 or 2 characters are either gender swapped or race swapped... but in this movie, 90% of the characters are gender and race swapped, crippled and/or made gay. That's a big difference, just out of the bag.

Now, are woke politics a big part of the movie? I have no idea. Apparently the movie is pretty slow... is a good amount of that time spent on the oppression of being a gay immortal, or not having white skin? Maybe. Maybe not. But it's starting from a big place of wokeness, regardless.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

From what I understand, the Eternals from the comics are all straight white people. Now usually nowadays, you get an adaptation and maybe 1 or 2 characters are either gender swapped or race swapped... but in this movie, 90% of the characters are gender and race swapped, crippled and/or made gay. That's a big difference, just out of the bag.

I would say DC's Suicide Squad movies would be comparable to 90% swapped from the source material, but moreso for the sake of keeping viewers on their toes about killing off the cast as opposed to being politically correct.

[Xav]

Kumail Nanjiani Responds to Critics of LGBTQ Eternals Character: 'We're Upsetting the Right People'

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Xav

Kumail Nanjiani Responds to Critics of LGBTQ Eternals Character: 'We're Upsetting the Right People'

Ugh. That's like the textbook SJW response from anyone doing this stuff in comics, movies, and TV. "We're upsetting the right people!"

Why is upsetting people even part of things? Why can't the focus be telling a good story, developing good characters?

[ZariusTwo]

Spoiler:

The film confirms the DC universe is part of the MCU due to references made to fictitious versions of Superman, Batman and Alfred!

https://bleedingcool.com/movies/eter...rt-of-the-mcu/

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Spoiler:

The film confirms the DC universe is part of the MCU due to references made to fictitious versions of Superman, Batman and Alfred!

https://bleedingcool.com/movies/eter...rt-of-the-mcu/

And... How is that significant? I don't understand how that is the least bit more relevant than the references to Empire Strikes Back, Aliens or Footloose.

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

The RT rating went back up to 60%
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/eternals

Which, amusingly, is the exact minimum for a "fresh" rating. There is probably some algorithm that prevents "big movies" from scoring below 60% before the second week in theaters or something.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by neatoman

And... How is that significant?

Just mentioning it. So what?

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Just mentioning it. So what?

Well it's not you, it's the fact that someone felt like it was worth writing an article over. A movie confirming that a real life comic book exist in it's world as well isn't meaningful because we already knew some real life pop culture existed in this world already. If they confirmed that the comic books this movie is based on exists in-universe, that would be something since it would imply something weird is going on. There is nothing that would really prevent the particular comics mentioned here from existing in the MCU.

[Leo656]

Yeah, I noticed a few articles chirping about "A character in a Marvel movie mentioned Superman!" like that was a huge deal. Like "Uh, yeah, so did Aunt May in the first Spider-Man, like 20 years ago. So?" I don't get why it's noteworthy.

Unless explicitly stated otherwise, when I watch a movie I pretty much assume that 99.9% of life in that world is exactly like ours, with the obvious exception of the fiction presented on the screen. Therefore, unless I'm told they don't, I assume that any movie I'm watching has pretty much the same pop culture we do. Same comics, same movies, same whatever.

It's like someone chirping about "Someone in an MCU movie mentioned the Rolling Stones! The Rolling Stones are canon in the MCU! They exist there!" I'm like "Well yeah, I mean obviously, why wouldn't they?"

Pretty sure I've seen Superman mentioned as existing (as a fictional character) within the comic book Marvel Universe, as well. So it's like, not news. It's weird that it would be mentioned at all.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Well it's not you, it's the fact that someone felt like it was worth writing an article over. A movie confirming that a real life comic book exist in it's world as well isn't meaningful because we already knew some real life pop culture existed in this world already. If they confirmed that the comic books this movie is based on exists in-universe, that would be something since it would imply something weird is going on. There is nothing that would really prevent the particular comics mentioned here from existing in the MCU.

I'm glad you posted this. I just opted out of commenting on the "Superman EXISTS! in the MCU!" nonsense at first until I read what you wrote here.

The concept reminds me of being in the theaters over the years with people who are so ready to part of something that they begin to interject meaning into anything they see on the screen. I've literally sat next to people who want to be part of something so badly that they'll point at random character "X" and say something like "Ohhh that's the guy who becomes.... umm? You know, that other character". And it's nobody.

That's what's going on with this interpretation of "the big confirmation!" about Superman in the MCU. It's ridiculous. It foreshadows nothing. It's simply a joke of comparison. That's it.

Discussing these perceptions as they arise is SO important. The fact that I occasionally comment on those mis-perceptions should inform people as to why I routinely include ad hominins in my explanations for what goes on in society. It's because the evidence is all around us as to the sheer number of people you are surrounded by at any given moment who are doing some weird mental algebra on the basis of their own misguided perceptual mental calculus about any given situation. Perceptual nonsense.

The "Superman callout" in Eternals was just a dialog joke of opportunity - most of us can perceive that without even seeing the movie. It's not the latest reveal as to the something huge for the MCU. Even if, ten years from now Warner and Disney strike up an unprecedented agreement to have the JLA crossover with the Avengers on film, this line in the Eternals still has nothing to do with anything. But if that happens, you'd better believe that some clown will point back to "The Eternals" and write an article that they "foreshadowed this years ago!". And there are people who will believe it.

[Leo656]

I kinda just feel - based on what I've read about it - that the Eternals movie is so otherwise unremarkable that some people are grasping at anything to write articles about regarding it.

"Someone in the movie mentioned Superman!" is, I guess, more "exciting" than an article about, "They finally got Angelina Jolie in an MCU movie and she doesn't do anything."

[neatoman]

I should also point out that Star-Lord referencing TMNT is actually weirder than any mention of Superman ever will be. That reference would imply a comic book written to be an explicit/obvious homage to Daredevil exists in a world in which Daredevil is a real person. Not only that but also pre-dating his emergence as a vigilante by several decades.

Of course, most people are probably not aware of this connection and therefore nobody cares or thinks the reference is weird. I don't know if James Gunn is aware either, in all likelihood the reference was just thrown in there because no thought was given to whether or not it makes sense, why would most people actually question if TMNT could be a thing in the MCU?

[Leo656]

That is pretty head-spinning.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by neatoman

I should also point out that Star-Lord referencing TMNT

Did that happen in a GotG movie or something? If so, that I don't remember that happening should speak to how little that meant to me.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Did that happen in a GotG movie or something? If so, that I don't remember that happening should speak to how little that meant to me.

I think it happens early on in the first GotG, he calls some mook a Ninja Turtle.

[Leo656]

I am exactly the kind of asshole who'd be like, "Would he even know what a Ninja Turtle is, given his situation?" That's me, I'm That Guy.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Did that happen in a GotG movie or something? If so, that I don't remember that happening should speak to how little that meant to me.

Here you go.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by neatoman

I think it happens early on in the first GotG, he calls some mook a Ninja Turtle.

Exactly. And once again most reasonable people just chuckle at the joke. But nowadays we've got nitwits writing articles about "they exist in the MCU! OMG What could this mean?"

Reminds me of when ICP wrote a song going on about the wonder of the universe and their best example was "magnets? How do they work?"

[Leo656]

Don't you blaspheme against ICP in my house, son.