When does a game become "retro"?

*Prowler* · 03-15-2022, 12:23 AM

As someone who has interacted with a lot of retrogamers online throughout the years, this is a discussion that occasionally pops up. When does a game become "retro"? And there's always some different answers. It's not a set in stone definition/label.

Personally, I consider every system up until the GameCube and the original Xbox to be retro nowadays. Not including the PS2 because it only died around 2013 or so. No way a game that came out in the 2010s is retro. So, I'd say PS2 games stop being until around 2006 or so?

I definitely do not consider the Wii, 360 and PS3 generation as being retro yet. Their early games are already quite old by now, but when I played Super Mario Galaxy a few years ago, I did not for one moment feel that I was playing a retrogame. Its graphics and gameplay mechanics didn't feel retro to me at all.

I'd say it's a combination of age and gameplay mechanics. Some games age better than others graphically and gameplay wise. F-Zero GX looks impressive for a 2003 GameCube game, but it came out almost 20 years ago already. So I can't help but consider it retro. Super Smash Bros. Melee also has aged pretty well, but it's definitely retro in my mind.

I won't deny the fact I was 11-13 when most of my favourite GameCube games came out plays a factor into my definition of retro. While I was still a kid at the time, I was already 2 weeks away from turning 17 when Super Mario Galaxy came out. The year of 2007 doesn't really feel like something from a past era of my life to me like the years of 2005 and before do.

I guess I can understand why someone who's 20 would consider the original Wii to be retrogaming by now. I first came across the term retrogaming when I was 15 or so on the Internet around 2005. That's when a lot of renewed interest from 80s and 90s games was starting to pop up due to 20+ year old gamers at the time now having nostalgia for the games they grew up with on the NES, SNES and Mega Drive. And now a lot of people were on the Internet and a large enough market to buy used games had developed and those people were now old enough to have disposable income to order those games from ebay and the likes.

What about you? What do you think?

*FredWolfLeonardo* · 03-15-2022, 12:48 AM

Its weird how there are some extremely old games out there which don't feel retro to me at all. One example is the Original Counter-Strike, which first came out in 1999.

It has very dated graphics by today's standards, but what keeps me from considering it retro is the fact that it still has an active online community. I'm no gaming historian, but It boggles my mind how a game from 1999 still has active servers in 2022.

When I think of retro games, console games come to mind more than pc games. Since older console games are harder to come by outside of emulation, and don' t have the online support of pc games (modding, updates, dedicated servers etc.).

*Prowler* · 03-15-2022, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

Its weird how there are some extremely old games out there which don't feel retro to me at all. One example is the Original Counter-Strike, which first came out in 1999.

It has very dated graphics by today's standards, but what keeps me from considering retro is the fact that it still has an active online community. I'm no gaming historian, but It boggles my mind how a game from 1999 still has active servers in 2022.

Well I've e ever played CS, so I can't comment on that.

But, as someone born in 1990 who grew up playing games on my older brother's systems, I can say that NES games always felt old to me, even if they weren't that old at the time. SNES games were current when I was 4-5 years old. Then came the Saturn and the N64 shortly afterwards and my jaw hit the floor. "WOW 3D GAMES!" was my thought. With Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time I thought gaming had reached the pinnacle. Ofc I still played the SNES occasionally but clearly I was more obsessed with the latest 3d games. And when the GameCube and the PS2 came out I was now playing 3d games with more modern graphics and gameplay mechanics.

Wasn't until 2006 or so that I started to play 8 bit and 16 bit games again. Not just the ones I grew up with, but also the ones I had missed out on.

So yeah, whenever someone calls the PS2 or the Wii retrogaming I feel rather old. Retrogaming to me is the Atari, the NES, the original Game Boy, the Game Gear, the Master System, etc. The Mega Drive also feels more retro than me than the SNES. To be fair it came out in 1989, the year before I was born.

Sure, the SNES is definitely retrogaming for me, but still looks presentable and more up to date to me than the NES or even the Saturn and N64 do. The SNES was the epitome of 2D gaming.

I guess someone born in 1978 also feels old when younger generations call the SNES and Mega Drive retro nowadays.

*FredWolfLeonardo* · 03-15-2022, 01:34 AM

It is funny how that works indeed, really good looking 2D games generally feel newer than 3D games which came out later, but during a time when 3D games were new so they don't age well graphically. Its the same when comparing older 2D animated films to the first CGI animated films.

You mentioned Super Smash Bros Melee, that game has seen a revival of sorts since many more computers are able to run it via emulation, and even have online support through netplay. When you combine that with Melee's graphics which still hold up pretty well to this day, as well as the still massive esports scene for the game, I don't personally see it as retro for that reason.

And I have to agree that the year 2007 doesn't feel like the past years for gaming in general, and part of that was probably because it was a huge jump in online console gaming. The Xbox 360 and ps3 were both picking up in sales, and their online multiplayer was revolutionary for a console at the time.

It cannot be understated how games like Call of Duty 4 and Halo 3 absolutely pushed online console gaming to a new level. I never played Halo 3, but I can speak from experience that you can still find Call of Duty 4 servers on ps3, something that once again keeps me from considering games of the ps3/360 generation as retro.

*Prowler* · 03-15-2022, 02:12 AM

I played some Melee a few years ago again and the game doesn't feel like it has aged a day. The only thing that makes it a bit harder to go back to is its rather small roster compared to Smash 3DS/Wii U and obviously Smash Ultimate. But back then, it felt like a massive roster. Non-nintendo characters were not expected in Smash at the time still. And I didn't know who the hell Marth and Roy were until then nor did anyone outside of Japan, for that matter. So that made the roster seem even bigger.

I've been replaying F-Zero X since it came out on the N64 Switch Online service recently. The game definitely looks like a racing game from its time, but it's not hurtful to look at and still plays very well. It's definitely retro though. Meanwhile, F-Zero GX on the GameCube was already very groahicalky impressive for its time and it doesn't look that old in 2022 still either. Its not retro graphically or gameplay wise, but it definitely is in age. I was 13 when it came out ffs.

Well, by late 2006 I was turning 16 and my personality started to develop into what I'm like today. I was still a kid, but clearly my mind was changing. By the time summer 2008 came in, after I graduated HS, I was pretty much getting closer to what I am today.

Basically, 16-17 was a phase of my life where I was a still but no longer living through my childhood. Wasn't so innocent anymore nor did I get easily impressed any more. I'm sure that plays a part into having trouble considering games that came out after 2006 as being retro.

*Turo602* · 03-15-2022, 02:13 AM

I don't think the quality of a game in relation to modern standards necessarily dictates what's retro. The Wii/PS3/360 generation is definitely retro now because it is no longer being sold in stores and hasn't been for a long time. Children have grown up with these consoles as their first and have become adults since.

For a lot of us, that generation of gaming feels modern and has come and gone in the recent past. But for others, it's what the N64 and original Playstation was to us when we were playing Halo 3 online and watching blu-rays from our PS3s. This stuff feels pretty standard now, but it's been nearly 2 decades since all that stuff first came out.

Back then, they had the virtual console and Xbox Live Arcade so we could play retro games from the NES all the way to the N64. Today, we can now purchase original Xbox and Xbox 360 games from the Microsoft Store via backwards compatibility, but a lot of it is still inaccessible and being lost to time and requires you to track down the original hardware, just like every other retro game.

*Prowler* · 03-15-2022, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turo602

I don't think the quality of a game in relation to modern standards necessarily dictates what's retro. The Wii/PS3/360 generation is definitely retro now because it is no longer being sold in stores and hasn't been for a long time. Children have grown up with these consoles as their first and have become adults since.

For a lot of us, that generation of gaming feels modern and has come and gone in the recent past. But for others, it's what the N64 and original Playstation was to us when we were playing Halo 3 online and watching blu-rays from our PS3s. This stuff feels pretty standard now, but it's been nearly 2 decades since all that stuff first came out.

Back then, they had the virtual console and Xbox Live Arcade so we could play retro games from the NES all the way to the N64. Today, we can now purchase original Xbox and Xbox 360 games from the Microsoft Store via backwards compatibility, but a lot of it is still inaccessible and being lost to time and requires you to track down the original hardware, just like every other retro game.

You make a good point about games no longer being sold in stores. I've definitely seen that argument before as well. Though, iirc, original Xbox games and GameCube games quickly disappeared from stores almost as soon as the 360 and the original Wii came out. At least that's how it was here. I know you added the "and hasn't been for a long time" bit, but not everyone who uses that argument does it, and this is more directed at them than at you lol

You're also right about the whole Blu-Ray thing already being rather old by now and having to track down some Xbox and 360 games like you're tracking down a game from the SNES era.

I just feel the jump in terms of graphics and gameplay mechanics from the Wii/360/PS3 generation to the current generation of consoles isn't as big as the jump between other generations in the past. I can pretty much boot up Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 and feel like I'm playing a game that's only a few years old. Doesn't feel like I'm playing something retro.

It's all a matter of personal perspectives and "feelings", I suppose. And our age comes into factor as well.

*Andrew NDB* · 03-15-2022, 02:50 AM

NES-PS2 era games are retro, IMO. PS3 and up seem modernish and often get upscaled versions because their engines are already friendly for doing so.

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 03-15-2022, 04:06 AM

When it comes to popular culture:

A couple of years ago are still relevant.

10 years ago are almost forgotten and considered old and out.

20 years ago are nostalgia and experiences a Renaissance, or in the world of video gaming, retro.

*sdp* · 03-15-2022, 08:38 AM

The rule is current gen -> previous gen (old but not retro) --> any gem before the precious gen is retro.

So right now PS3/360/Wii are retro but not PS4/Wii U. But it's not a golden rule, especially with consoles lasting longer than before and PC never changing, so any game that is 10 years+ for the most part is retro. It needs to pass through a few years of the game being just "old" before it becomes retro though. GTA4? Retro, GTA5? Just old we need a new game.

I remember when people used to say Retro would only ever be 2D consoles and that the N64/PS1 would never be retro. Later it was accepted as retro and they said PS2/Xbox/Gamecube would never be retro, and now they're considered retro. PS3/360 games already look very dated, they're definitely retro, give it a few more years and people will agree that they're retro and the same debate will go on with the PS4 eventually.

The jump between générations stopped being as big but youre blind if you don't see the differences between a 2012 game and a 2022 release, just physics alone have changed things.
Gaming not being innovative has nothing to do with a game being retro or not.
Again for s while people said retro was only pints based games like arcade titles from the 80s and before and later that 3D meant it wasn't retro anymore etc, definitions have changed as kids age and they see their games as retro because they're old and anything before they were boen as retro. Just because you're an adult and 10 years go as fast as 10 months did when you were young doesn't mean time isn't passing.

*Powder* · 03-15-2022, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

NES-PS2 era games are retro, IMO. PS3 and up seem modernish and often get upscaled versions because their engines are already friendly for doing so.

Yeah, I agree with this, I think.

*oldmanwinters* · 03-15-2022, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

10 years ago are almost forgotten and considered old and out.

Now is a good time for buying Wii and 3DS physical copies!

*Turo602* · 03-15-2022, 06:12 PM

I think where the perception that the 7th generation of consoles can't be retro stems from the fact that the 7th generation was around for damn near a decade and shaped a lot of what modern gaming has become.

We can thank Arkham Asylum for killing licensed movie tie-in games. Halo, Call of Duty, and Battlefield proved online multiplayer shooters were more fruitful than single player games. Meanwhile, Assassin's Creed was popularizing open world action games. DLC was also a major component of this generation and is now commonplace, as well as online subscriptions and digital marketplaces.

There's definitely a lot of overlap between retro and modern within this generation simply because of how quickly the industry was evolving throughout those 8 years that separates modern games like Halo 4, The Last of Us, and GTA V from games like Halo 3, Uncharted, and GTA IV.

Highlighting how similar this generation of gaming is to modern gaming diminishes all the ways in which they are unique and how much the trends in gaming have shifted and changed since then, which has made it just as nostalgic as any other retro era.

Online was fresh and we got a lot of co-op games because of it. Today, co-op isn't much of a priority and is becoming more niche in an industry dominated by either single player open world and narrative driven games or online multiplayer games as a service experiences. Even the days of movie tie-ins and licensed games seem to have died here as the industry keeps moving towards triple A experiences, leaving indie devs to fill the gap of double A games licensed games used to fill.

The 7th generation gave us so many new IPs and tons of sequels and that output hasn't been nearly the same with games now having much longer development cycles.

From 2005 - 2013 we got 4 Halo games and 1 remaster, 3 Batman games, an Uncharted Trilogy and The Last of Us, 4 Gears of War games, 2 GTAs with 2 story expansions, Red Dead Redemption and a story expansion, L.A. Noire, and Max Payne 3.

What have we gotten since?

2 Halo games and 1 remaster, 1 Batman game with 2 follow ups still to come, 1 Uncharted with an expansion and 1 Last of Us, 2 Gears of War games with a remaster, and 1 Red Dead Redemption from Rockstar in all this time. That's not even mentioning the amount of franchises that have disappeared, gone dormant, or died a short while after.

Times are vastly different in the gaming world now than they were then. Breath of the Wild is the new Resident Evil 4, Dark Souls is a genre, Fortnite is king, games are a service, indie games are either Metroidvanias or Rogue-likes, stealth is a mechanic not a genre, Assassin's Creed is an RPG, Resident Evil is a first-person survival horror game, remakes are popular, and SJW politics are influencing the industry more and more.

I miss the days of getting different Spider-Man games every year, I miss the machismo and horror-like setting of Gears of War, I miss when Saint's Row was about gangbangers and criminals, I miss when the 360 arcade had a bunch of demos for upcoming games, I miss how special Halo felt when Halo 3 came out, I miss when co-op games were the trend, I miss my uncle Charles, I miss Splinter Cell, I miss simple linear games, and so much more that makes the 7th generation feel as retro as the Gamecube.

*Prowler* · 03-16-2022, 01:41 AM

You guys are making some good points.

I think I generally agree with Andrew about NES-PS2 being retro. Ofc I'd add games that came before the NES even existed to that as well, but Andrew probably just forgot mentioning them.

I guess we should also mention indie games becoming more common within the past several years as another change in the industry. Indie games are filling a niche that was rather empty after a while. Especially those games that are clearly modern takes on 8 bits and 16 bit style games from the 80s and 90s.

Like Turo, I will always prefer single player modes. Games that can only be played online against strangers just aren't my thing. I don't care about Fortnite, Overwatch, Dota, League of Legends, etc.

And let's not forget mobile gaming becoming a huge thing within the last decade as well with Smartphones. But mobile gaming is such a strange part of the industry. They're mostly all pay to win games that you're supposed to play in short bursts on the toilet or while riding the bus. There's a few ones like Pokémon Go that actually are rathe rorigibal and interesting, and you can connect them to your regular pokemon games as well. But such games feel like the exception to the rule.

As for dying series... sadly two of my favourite series are pretty much either dead or dormant. F-Zero just seems like it's in a coma. Nintendo just doesn't seem to know what else to do with it. And the fact F-Zero games never sold that well to begin with probably makes Nintendo think there's no need to make more of them since the demand isn't high enough.
The other series is Sim City. Pretty sure this one is 100% dead. That or it still belongs to EA... which is a fate even crueler than death. Why did it have to be EA of all companies to acquire Maxis, WHYYYY?!

I guess the closest thing you can get to Sim Cities nowadays is City Skylines or wtv it's called.

*Andrew NDB* · 03-16-2022, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prowler

Why did it have to be EA of all companies to acquire Maxis, WHYYYY?!

EA acquires Origin... KILLS Wing Commander and Privateer and Ultima. Sits on the rights.

EA acquires Westwood Studios... KILLS Dune. Sits on the rights.

EA acquires Maxis... KILLS everything. Sits on the rights.

They only allow to live online-only cheap versions of things they can sip pennies on the dollar from every month. Over and over again. They are the worst video game company in the history of planet Earth and I hate them with every fiber in my being. There is no deal with them that isn't one with the Devil. Ever.

*IMJ* · 03-17-2022, 04:38 PM

Any generation of gaming whereby the primary gaming mechanic or graphical output was largely utilized and has now passed for a newer game mechanic or significantly increased level of graphical output.

I think it's as simple as that.

Technically, for the group savants who need to hear it, a "retro" game could be designed and made today to be retro as well.

*Andrew NDB* · 03-17-2022, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMJ

Any generation of gaming whereby the primary gaming mechanic or graphical output was largely utilized and has now passed for a newer game mechanic or significantly increased level of graphical output.

I think it's as simple as that.

Technically, for the group savants who need to hear it, a "retro" game could be designed and made today to be retro as well.

I don't know. I think there's a difference between "an old game system"/"old games" and "retro games." Like when Nintendo fans moved from the Gamecube to the Wii, the Gamecube wasn't suddenly a "retro gaming system." Nor was it even when the Wii U hit, really. It's just a system that is largely obsolete. Not super old, but old enough that no one's really playing it anymore.

*IMJ* · 03-17-2022, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I don't know. I think there's a difference between "an old game system"/"old games" and "retro games." Like when Nintendo fans moved from the Gamecube to the Wii, the Gamecube wasn't suddenly a "retro gaming system." Nor was it even when the Wii U hit, really. It's just a system that is largely obsolete. Not super old, but old enough that no one's really playing it anymore.

I don't entirely disagree, but that's why I specifically didn't say "old" but instead spoke of gaming mechanics and graphical design and power.

But it's different across generations too. Atari is clearly retro gaming - repetitive arcade-style point systems. NES is clearly retro gaming - 8-bit style largely made of platforming.

So I guess it's multi-faceted. Playstation had a great Castlevania game called "Lament of Innocence". That game took what was great from Symphony of the Night and did it better than Curse of Darkness. It was a pre-cursor of sorts to the awesome PS4 "Lords of Shadow" game. Is "Lament of Innocence" a retro game in any way other than the year it was released? I dunno.....

*Prowler* · 03-17-2022, 06:24 PM

Yeah, as I said before, the jump between generations in terms of graphics and gameplay mechanics isn't as steep nowadays as it used to be. That kinda stopped after the PS2/GC/Xbox generation since it basically was the start of polished 3D games. Ofc a lot of PS2 games look really outdated nowadays. Try playing the PS2 GTA games nowadays for instance.

But yeah, I just see the Wii as old by now but not exactly retro.

*CyberCubed* · 03-17-2022, 06:29 PM

PS3/PS4/PS5 games all feel very similar although very early PS3 games feel dated now.

Meanwhile PS2/Gamecube/Xbox games definitely feel like a generation before. Although it's weird for me to even consider PS2 and Gamecube games retro, they definitely are since they're 20 years old now. Fun fact: It wasn't even 20 years before Gamecube came out that the NES was out...as NES didn't come out till 1985.

03-15-2022, 12:23 AM	#1
Prowler Emperor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,940	When does a game become "retro"? As someone who has interacted with a lot of retrogamers online throughout the years, this is a discussion that occasionally pops up. When does a game become "retro"? And there's always some different answers. It's not a set in stone definition/label. Personally, I consider every system up until the GameCube and the original Xbox to be retro nowadays. Not including the PS2 because it only died around 2013 or so. No way a game that came out in the 2010s is retro. So, I'd say PS2 games stop being until around 2006 or so? I definitely do not consider the Wii, 360 and PS3 generation as being retro yet. Their early games are already quite old by now, but when I played Super Mario Galaxy a few years ago, I did not for one moment feel that I was playing a retrogame. Its graphics and gameplay mechanics didn't feel retro to me at all. I'd say it's a combination of age and gameplay mechanics. Some games age better than others graphically and gameplay wise. F-Zero GX looks impressive for a 2003 GameCube game, but it came out almost 20 years ago already. So I can't help but consider it retro. Super Smash Bros. Melee also has aged pretty well, but it's definitely retro in my mind. I won't deny the fact I was 11-13 when most of my favourite GameCube games came out plays a factor into my definition of retro. While I was still a kid at the time, I was already 2 weeks away from turning 17 when Super Mario Galaxy came out. The year of 2007 doesn't really feel like something from a past era of my life to me like the years of 2005 and before do. I guess I can understand why someone who's 20 would consider the original Wii to be retrogaming by now. I first came across the term retrogaming when I was 15 or so on the Internet around 2005. That's when a lot of renewed interest from 80s and 90s games was starting to pop up due to 20+ year old gamers at the time now having nostalgia for the games they grew up with on the NES, SNES and Mega Drive. And now a lot of people were on the Internet and a large enough market to buy used games had developed and those people were now old enough to have disposable income to order those games from ebay and the likes. What about you? What do you think?

03-15-2022, 02:13 AM	#6
Turo602 The King of Kings Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Chicago Illinois Posts: 2,931	I don't think the quality of a game in relation to modern standards necessarily dictates what's retro. The Wii/PS3/360 generation is definitely retro now because it is no longer being sold in stores and hasn't been for a long time. Children have grown up with these consoles as their first and have become adults since. For a lot of us, that generation of gaming feels modern and has come and gone in the recent past. But for others, it's what the N64 and original Playstation was to us when we were playing Halo 3 online and watching blu-rays from our PS3s. This stuff feels pretty standard now, but it's been nearly 2 decades since all that stuff first came out. Back then, they had the virtual console and Xbox Live Arcade so we could play retro games from the NES all the way to the N64. Today, we can now purchase original Xbox and Xbox 360 games from the Microsoft Store via backwards compatibility, but a lot of it is still inaccessible and being lost to time and requires you to track down the original hardware, just like every other retro game. __________________

03-15-2022, 02:50 AM	#8
Andrew NDB Weed Whacker Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 34,244	NES-PS2 era games are retro, IMO. PS3 and up seem modernish and often get upscaled versions because their engines are already friendly for doing so. __________________ [ ODYSSEY \| ORIGIN \| THE IMAGE/VOL. 3 CONCLUSION \| THE SHELLSHOCKED PODCAST \| ON FACEBOOK ]

03-15-2022, 04:06 AM	#9
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan Overlord Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 10,477	When it comes to popular culture: A couple of years ago are still relevant. 10 years ago are almost forgotten and considered old and out. 20 years ago are nostalgia and experiences a Renaissance, or in the world of video gaming, retro. Last edited by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan; 03-15-2022 at 12:49 PM.

03-15-2022, 08:38 AM	#10
sdp Detoxed Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Tokio, Italy Posts: 11,113	The rule is current gen -> previous gen (old but not retro) --> any gem before the precious gen is retro. So right now PS3/360/Wii are retro but not PS4/Wii U. But it's not a golden rule, especially with consoles lasting longer than before and PC never changing, so any game that is 10 years+ for the most part is retro. It needs to pass through a few years of the game being just "old" before it becomes retro though. GTA4? Retro, GTA5? Just old we need a new game. I remember when people used to say Retro would only ever be 2D consoles and that the N64/PS1 would never be retro. Later it was accepted as retro and they said PS2/Xbox/Gamecube would never be retro, and now they're considered retro. PS3/360 games already look very dated, they're definitely retro, give it a few more years and people will agree that they're retro and the same debate will go on with the PS4 eventually. The jump between générations stopped being as big but youre blind if you don't see the differences between a 2012 game and a 2022 release, just physics alone have changed things. Gaming not being innovative has nothing to do with a game being retro or not. Again for s while people said retro was only pints based games like arcade titles from the 80s and before and later that 3D meant it wasn't retro anymore etc, definitions have changed as kids age and they see their games as retro because they're old and anything before they were boen as retro. Just because you're an adult and 10 years go as fast as 10 months did when you were young doesn't mean time isn't passing. __________________ *Trapt* *urself Page MiscRave!!!* Click to join The Drome Discord server Last edited by sdp; 01-17-2024 at 09:50 AM.

03-15-2022, 02:12 AM	#5
Prowler Emperor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,940	I played some Melee a few years ago again and the game doesn't feel like it has aged a day. The only thing that makes it a bit harder to go back to is its rather small roster compared to Smash 3DS/Wii U and obviously Smash Ultimate. But back then, it felt like a massive roster. Non-nintendo characters were not expected in Smash at the time still. And I didn't know who the hell Marth and Roy were until then nor did anyone outside of Japan, for that matter. So that made the roster seem even bigger. I've been replaying F-Zero X since it came out on the N64 Switch Online service recently. The game definitely looks like a racing game from its time, but it's not hurtful to look at and still plays very well. It's definitely retro though. Meanwhile, F-Zero GX on the GameCube was already very groahicalky impressive for its time and it doesn't look that old in 2022 still either. Its not retro graphically or gameplay wise, but it definitely is in age. I was 13 when it came out ffs. Well, by late 2006 I was turning 16 and my personality started to develop into what I'm like today. I was still a kid, but clearly my mind was changing. By the time summer 2008 came in, after I graduated HS, I was pretty much getting closer to what I am today. Basically, 16-17 was a phase of my life where I was a still but no longer living through my childhood. Wasn't so innocent anymore nor did I get easily impressed any more. I'm sure that plays a part into having trouble considering games that came out after 2006 as being retro.

03-15-2022, 06:12 PM	#13
Turo602 The King of Kings Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Chicago Illinois Posts: 2,931	I think where the perception that the 7th generation of consoles can't be retro stems from the fact that the 7th generation was around for damn near a decade and shaped a lot of what modern gaming has become. We can thank Arkham Asylum for killing licensed movie tie-in games. Halo, Call of Duty, and Battlefield proved online multiplayer shooters were more fruitful than single player games. Meanwhile, Assassin's Creed was popularizing open world action games. DLC was also a major component of this generation and is now commonplace, as well as online subscriptions and digital marketplaces. There's definitely a lot of overlap between retro and modern within this generation simply because of how quickly the industry was evolving throughout those 8 years that separates modern games like Halo 4, The Last of Us, and GTA V from games like Halo 3, Uncharted, and GTA IV. Highlighting how similar this generation of gaming is to modern gaming diminishes all the ways in which they are unique and how much the trends in gaming have shifted and changed since then, which has made it just as nostalgic as any other retro era. Online was fresh and we got a lot of co-op games because of it. Today, co-op isn't much of a priority and is becoming more niche in an industry dominated by either single player open world and narrative driven games or online multiplayer games as a service experiences. Even the days of movie tie-ins and licensed games seem to have died here as the industry keeps moving towards triple A experiences, leaving indie devs to fill the gap of double A games licensed games used to fill. The 7th generation gave us so many new IPs and tons of sequels and that output hasn't been nearly the same with games now having much longer development cycles. From 2005 - 2013 we got 4 Halo games and 1 remaster, 3 Batman games, an Uncharted Trilogy and The Last of Us, 4 Gears of War games, 2 GTAs with 2 story expansions, Red Dead Redemption and a story expansion, L.A. Noire, and Max Payne 3. What have we gotten since? 2 Halo games and 1 remaster, 1 Batman game with 2 follow ups still to come, 1 Uncharted with an expansion and 1 Last of Us, 2 Gears of War games with a remaster, and 1 Red Dead Redemption from Rockstar in all this time. That's not even mentioning the amount of franchises that have disappeared, gone dormant, or died a short while after. Times are vastly different in the gaming world now than they were then. Breath of the Wild is the new Resident Evil 4, Dark Souls is a genre, Fortnite is king, games are a service, indie games are either Metroidvanias or Rogue-likes, stealth is a mechanic not a genre, Assassin's Creed is an RPG, Resident Evil is a first-person survival horror game, remakes are popular, and SJW politics are influencing the industry more and more. I miss the days of getting different Spider-Man games every year, I miss the machismo and horror-like setting of Gears of War, I miss when Saint's Row was about gangbangers and criminals, I miss when the 360 arcade had a bunch of demos for upcoming games, I miss how special Halo felt when Halo 3 came out, I miss when co-op games were the trend, I miss my uncle Charles, I miss Splinter Cell, I miss simple linear games, and so much more that makes the 7th generation feel as retro as the Gamecube. __________________

03-16-2022, 01:41 AM	#14
Prowler Emperor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,940	You guys are making some good points. I think I generally agree with Andrew about NES-PS2 being retro. Ofc I'd add games that came before the NES even existed to that as well, but Andrew probably just forgot mentioning them. I guess we should also mention indie games becoming more common within the past several years as another change in the industry. Indie games are filling a niche that was rather empty after a while. Especially those games that are clearly modern takes on 8 bits and 16 bit style games from the 80s and 90s. Like Turo, I will always prefer single player modes. Games that can only be played online against strangers just aren't my thing. I don't care about Fortnite, Overwatch, Dota, League of Legends, etc. And let's not forget mobile gaming becoming a huge thing within the last decade as well with Smartphones. But mobile gaming is such a strange part of the industry. They're mostly all pay to win games that you're supposed to play in short bursts on the toilet or while riding the bus. There's a few ones like Pokémon Go that actually are rathe rorigibal and interesting, and you can connect them to your regular pokemon games as well. But such games feel like the exception to the rule. As for dying series... sadly two of my favourite series are pretty much either dead or dormant. F-Zero just seems like it's in a coma. Nintendo just doesn't seem to know what else to do with it. And the fact F-Zero games never sold that well to begin with probably makes Nintendo think there's no need to make more of them since the demand isn't high enough. The other series is Sim City. Pretty sure this one is 100% dead. That or it still belongs to EA... which is a fate even crueler than death. Why did it have to be EA of all companies to acquire Maxis, WHYYYY?! I guess the closest thing you can get to Sim Cities nowadays is City Skylines or wtv it's called.

03-17-2022, 04:38 PM	#16
IMJ Emperor Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Midwest, U.S.A. Posts: 8,788	Any generation of gaming whereby the primary gaming mechanic or graphical output was largely utilized and has now passed for a newer game mechanic or significantly increased level of graphical output. I think it's as simple as that. Technically, for the group savants who need to hear it, a "retro" game could be designed and made today to be retro as well. __________________ Wave 1 Collectibles Online Market Watch Blog Collection Photography

03-17-2022, 06:24 PM	#19
Prowler Emperor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,940	Yeah, as I said before, the jump between generations in terms of graphics and gameplay mechanics isn't as steep nowadays as it used to be. That kinda stopped after the PS2/GC/Xbox generation since it basically was the start of polished 3D games. Ofc a lot of PS2 games look really outdated nowadays. Try playing the PS2 GTA games nowadays for instance. But yeah, I just see the Wii as old by now but not exactly retro.

03-17-2022, 06:29 PM	#20
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,695	PS3/PS4/PS5 games all feel very similar although very early PS3 games feel dated now. Meanwhile PS2/Gamecube/Xbox games definitely feel like a generation before. Although it's weird for me to even consider PS2 and Gamecube games retro, they definitely are since they're 20 years old now. Fun fact: It wasn't even 20 years before Gamecube came out that the NES was out...as NES didn't come out till 1985.