Could someone enlighten me....

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Originally Posted by Spitfire666xXxXx

I don't have to respect anything. If someone does something stupid I can say they did. If you accept that then that's your deal. I don't need to state again that I won't.

Yes, you gotta respect it. Theres nothing you can do to change it anyway. You don't have to like it, but at least respect the creator's decision. I may not agree with some of the stuff Laird does, but I respect his right to do it

No I'm acting like he's doing something stupid and I'm stating my feelings about it. Something you obviously can't handle.

I can handle you hating it. It's that boneheaded comment of yours "TMNT belongs to fans", that I can't accept. Because there was so much **** stuffed into those 5 little words.

I was told their being watered down, which is why I posted in the first place. I don't need excuses to hate the guy. I don't even hate the guy. I just hate what he's doing.

Who told you? Unless it's someone from Mirage, not good enough.

I'm talking about the Archie comics series not the old toon...

So, does that make him a bad person, if he doesn't like The Archie series(I don't blame either, Mirage >> Archie).

They both made it together. All Laird did was make it into Star Trek.

Wow, your Sci-fi knowledge is really that limited? So it has aliens. So does almost every other comic book. The guy incorporates stuff he likes into the book, if you can't take it, then thats on you. You cna't expect him to incorporate only stuff you like. A good creator says F-U to the fans and handles the property they're way.

Now we are name calling. And you had the nerve to tell me to grow up. Take your own advice.

Already did. But after some of the crap you were spewing, you deserved it.

[Spitfire]

Alright last time I'm doing this cause were doing some hatchet burying here

Yes, you gotta respect it. Theres nothing you can do to change it anyway. You don't have to like it, but at least respect the creator's decision. I may not agree with some of the stuff Laird does, but I respect his right to do it

Yeah he's got the right to do whatever he wants, I know that. What I'm saying is if I want to call him stupid in so many words for doing it I can. Pretty simple, I think what he's doing is stupid so I call him stupid for it. Has nothing to do with respecting him, has to do with me thinking he's making a dumb choice and me saying so. I'm not going to make excuses for him just because he's a co-creator to my favorite franchise.

I can handle you hating it. It's that boneheaded comment of yours "TMNT belongs to fans", that I can't accept. Because there was so much **** stuffed into those 5 little words.

Well that's a matter of opinion. In my opinion TMNT belongs to the fans. Without fans where would Laird be? No where, same goes for anyone. Where would Stan Lee be without people to read his comics? Where would Lucas be without people to watch his movies? Where would Iron Maiden be without people to listen to their music? They wouldn't be comic artists, directors, and musicians that's for sure. Without fans their nothing. If you make a comic book and no one likes it you stop making it. TMNT was just supposed to be a joke that ended up becoming a huge thing. And now it has tons of fans. You treat the fans like **** just because you think you can makes me think your a douche or a jew like I called him earlier. I don't like the attitude some people get where they think they can do or say anything and the fans will accept it just because of who they are. Kerry King from Slayer is like that and I call him the same names.

Who told you? Unless it's someone from Mirage, not good enough.

Putrescent told me, and he's never wronged me before so I see no reason to think he started lying to me now.

So, does that make him a bad person, if he doesn't like The Archie series(I don't blame either, Mirage >> Archie).

That's all opinion, but alot of fans think the Archie series was one of the best*Next to Mirage of course* and Laird has stated he disliked it.

Wow, your Sci-fi knowledge is really that limited? So it has aliens. So does almost every other comic book. The guy incorporates stuff he likes into the book, if you can't take it, then thats on you. You cna't expect him to incorporate only stuff you like. A good creator says F-U to the fans and handles the property they're way.

Not limited at all I grew up watching every sci-fi movie and show known to man, my Dad is a big sci-fi geek. I couldn't go two weeks without having to see a something Star Trek, Battle Star, Outer Limits, X-files...you get the picture. He likes sci-fi fine my point was they both made the TMNT together. There's a whole story about it on the official site and I'm sure you read it. The Star Trek remake was mocking the fact that he added that as a line the turtles say when their babies.

Already did. But after some of the crap you were spewing, you deserved it.

As I always say it's better to make someone look stupid then to call them names. Name calling makes you look immature, as I did in my very first post, where if you apply a little brain power you can really get someone with some cleaver wording.

But it's all good I've been called way worse names then ass clown. That actually made me chuckle a little.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Originally Posted by Spitfire666xXxXx

Alright last time I'm doing this cause were doing some hatchet burying here


Yeah he's got the right to do whatever he wants, I know that. What I'm saying is if I want to call him stupid in so many words for doing it I can. Pretty simple, I think what he's doing is stupid so I call him stupid for it. Has nothing to do with respecting him, has to do with me thinking he's making a dumb choice and me saying so. I'm not going to make excuses for him just because he's a co-creator to my favorite franchise.

Okay, noted.

Well that's a matter of opinion. In my opinion TMNT belongs to the fans. Without fans where would Laird be? No where, same goes for anyone. Where would Stan Lee be without people to read his comics? Where would Lucas be without people to watch his movies? Where would Iron Maiden be without people to listen to their music? They wouldn't be comic artists, directors, and musicians that's for sure. Without fans their nothing. If you make a comic book and no one likes it you stop making it. TMNT was just supposed to be a joke that ended up becoming a huge thing. And now it has tons of fans. You treat the fans like **** just because you think you can makes me think your a douche or a jew like I called him earlier. I don't like the attitude some people get where they think they can do or say anything and the fans will accept it just because of who they are. Kerry King from Slayer is like that and I call him the same names.

Yeah sure, the fans are improtant. But do the fans write the book? Do the fans draw it? Do the fans ink and letter it? Do the fans edit the book? Do the fans even hold the rights? No. So how does it belong to them?

Putrescent told me, and he's never wronged me before so I see no reason to think he started lying to me now.


That's all opinion, but alot of fans think the Archie series was one of the best*Next to Mirage of course* and Laird has stated he disliked it.


Not limited at all I grew up watching every sci-fi movie and show known to man, my Dad is a big sci-fi geek. I couldn't go two weeks without having to see a something Star Trek, Battle Star, Outer Limits, X-files...you get the picture. He likes sci-fi fine my point was they both made the TMNT together. There's a whole story about it on the official site and I'm sure you read it. The Star Trek remake was mocking the fact that he added that as a line the turtles say when their babies.


As I always say it's better to make someone look stupid then to call them names. Name calling makes you look immature, as I did in my very first post, where if you apply a little brain power you can really get someone with some cleaver wording.

But it's all good I've been called way worse names then ass clown. That actually made me chuckle a little.

I appologize for the name calling, but when I get pissed I just black out, and when I wake up, I've offended at least 3 different religions.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

Yeah sure, the fans are improtant. But do the fans write the book? Do the fans draw it? Do the fans ink and letter it? Do the fans edit the book? Do the fans even hold the rights? No. So how does it belong to them?

No we don't but you do have to remember we are the one footing the bill get it...footing the bill ahhhhh wokka wokka!

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

I appologize for the name calling, but when I get pissed I just black out, and when I wake up, I've offended at least 3 different religions.

Hey I know how that is haha

Yeah sure, the fans are improtant. But do the fans write the book? Do the fans draw it? Do the fans ink and letter it? Do the fans edit the book? Do the fans even hold the rights? No. So how does it belong to them?

Well hell legally I don't own crap, but I explained in my post how it is we own it.

You got to be gentle with us fans, you piss us off to much you could lose us and then you got nothing. That's what I ment.

But I guess since I'm in the minority here Laird has nothing to worry about.

[The Shelf]

Originally Posted by Spitfire666xXxXx

Hey I know how that is haha


Well hell legally I don't own crap, but I explained in my post how it is we own it.

You got to be gentle with us fans, you piss us off to much you could lose us and then you got nothing. That's what I ment.

But I guess since I'm in the minority here Laird has nothing to worry about.

I can certainly see where you're coming from, but in all honesty... I hate when writers tailor their stories just to please the fans. I feel that when that happens, the writer's own ingenuity has been tainted and I'm not getting the real thing. I think this happens a lot in more mainstream comics such as Marvel and DC, but Mirage seems untainted by this so far, and I want to keep it that way. So if Laird wants to change something or do something fans don't agree with, I'm just going to sit back and enjoy it whether I like it or not. And if it gets so bad that I can't stand it, then I'll just stop reading, but I'm not going to complain about it because, frankly, I can't. I've liked what he's given us so far, so if he does something I don't like, then I'll just have to be thankful for what he's done in the past and move on.

I hope that was at least semi-on-topic. I haven't read through this entire thread.

[Sparvid]

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

And dude, he's retoning the books, not pussifing them and making them all colorful and cheery.

Really? Because based on the examples earlier in the thread, it looked to me like the tones were simply removed, not re-done.

Now, in 9 times out of 10, I have no problem with giving a reprint a brand new coloring, or even adding a few details here and there, but I can't say that I get the point of simply removing various beautiful details...

I also flipped through my First Graphic Novels and noticed that they're re-lettered, but with a lettering style more fitting than the modern computer font in the newest reprint (and there doesn't seem to be any missing or changed words, to boot).

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Kunoichi_Haruko

If all he planned to do with the comics was give them a cleaner look, I'd have no problem whatsoever with it.

I have a problem with it. It looks like ****. Have you seen the recent reprint of Vol. 1 #1 he redid? That's what he wants the whole Volume to look like now.

Scrapes out all of the duotones and replaces it with just a tad bit of barely-there computer quickie tones. Backgrounds, foreground stuff, even pupils in the reprint of #1 he's redone all just completely vanish, along with every ounce of grit the original duotones provided. It looks like he wants to leave all of Vol. 1 looking "Color-Open," I guess... which is fine, if he actually adds color, which he ain't gonna do.

Granted, Laird isn't traveling to all of our bedrooms and burning our original copies of TMNT Vol. 1, and it is his baby to do with as he pleases.

[Janus Prospero]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Granted, Laird isn't traveling to all of our bedrooms and burning our original copies of TMNT Vol. 1, and it is his baby to do with as he pleases.

Thanks a lot Andrew. Now I'm going to have nightmares.

I wouldn't mind some minor changes and corrections, but looking at some of the comparison images Rosey posted (thanks a ton dudette!) I'm not too happy with the loss of detail there. Like Andrew said, it looks like it's supposed to get colored, but it won't. That's my biggest gripe.

[DrSpengler]

I was rather indifferent until I saw those comparison pics (thanks Roseangelo). Now I can't believe how bland and ugly he's making the book. Taking away stuff like the Purple Dragon's shadows on the first page just robs the comic of atmosphere.

I'm glad I got my originals locked away where Laird can't get them.

Originally Posted by Janus Prospero

Thanks a lot Andrew. Now I'm going to have nightmares.

"Shhhh! Did you hear that?"

"It sounds like...like...a Segway!"

"QUICK! HIDE THE COMICS!"

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Honestly, I looked at the comparisons and I still don't see the problem. They look fine.

[Janus Prospero]

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

Honestly, I looked at the comparisons and I still don't see the problem. They look fine.

Don't get me wrong dude. They still look good. It's just a personal preference thing.

Some people prefer the gray shading look, others like the stark black/white contrast. You should feel so lucky that you and Pete are on the same page.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Originally Posted by Janus Prospero

Don't get me wrong dude. They still look good. It's just a personal preference thing.

Some people prefer the gray shading look, others like the stark black/white contrast. You should feel so lucky that you and Pete are on the same page.

It's not that I condone constant changes of movies of comics or tv shows, but when it's something minor like this, I don't really mind.

[Fledermaus]

Part of what made the original comics so gorgeous in my opinion was HOW THEY WERE TONED. The feel was grungier, fuller. You can't **** all over that, just... replacing it with that cheap-charlie "tone" job. I can't see the logic in it. Why? Does anyone know why? To begin with, all this "fixing" of existing twenty-year old material is awful. It's one thing to add stuff in, perhaps for a special version. But detracting from the original material???? What the hell?

My one hope is that perhaps Roseangelo is completely wrong and Murphy (is he around) will come in and save the day and tell us that this is all BS and no one is insane enough to redo the original tones and of course that we know nothing since we don't work at Mirage.

[VaughnMichael]

I'm sure it's not true and lord I hope it's not but it could be the editing of anything eastman related because it's all lairds now all his! muwhahahah!

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

"Shhhh! Did you hear that?"

"It sounds like...like...a Segway!"

"QUICK! HIDE THE COMICS!"

Heeeeere's Peeeeter!!!

[Fledermaus]

I didn't mean to jump on the Let's-Flame-Peter-Laird bandwagon... but the retoning of old material -- I'm serious. This isn't permanent is it?

As for mistakes, that's part of what gives character to any body of artwork. You know, Raph holds his sai incorrectly in a lot of the old Mirage comics. What're they gonna do? Go back with white-out and re-ink every "mistake?"

[The Shelf]

Originally Posted by Fledermaus

I didn't mean to jump on the Let's-Flame-Peter-Laird bandwagon... but the retoning of old material -- I'm serious. This isn't permanent is it?

As for mistakes, that's part of what gives character to any body of artwork. You know, Raph holds his sai incorrectly in a lot of the old Mirage comics. What're they gonna do? Go back with white-out and re-ink every "mistake?"

Or worse yet, they could re-ink and re-tone your avatar.
You better run, Fledermaus, I can hear the axe a'chopping.

[Fledermaus]

Originally Posted by The Shelf

Or worse yet, they could re-ink and re-tone your avatar.
You better run, Fledermaus, I can hear the axe a'chopping.

Theytheythey... you know. This is all so ambiguous. I'm just gonna email Dan Berger and get to the bottom of this.

Oh, and my avatar is safe. I alone posses the original inks since I drew it.

If anyone comes after my artwork with an axe, I'll come after the attacker with Super-Soaker filled with Clorox. And I will aim for their eyes.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Fledermaus

Theytheythey... you know. This is all so ambiguous. I'm just gonna email Dan Berger and get to the bottom of this.

Already have. Laird is indeed retoning all of Vol. 1 (or at least the ones he considers canonical), and they'll all look exactly like his Vol. 1 #1 reprint with the rubbish tones.

But... it's not certain if he'll ever really get around to finishing it. He hasn't talked about it in some time.