Raph vs. Leo - SPOILERS INSIDE

[johnnyblaze]

Originally Posted by triplexxx

If there's no reason to apply the "real-world" concepts that Raphael's suit slowed him down, even a little, or that his senses were a little dulled by the helmet, then there's no reason to apply the "real-world" concepts that the suit offered Raphael any protection from Leonardo's blows, or that Leonardo's punching or kicking him would hurt Leonardo in any way. You ever noticed when the turtle punch or kick Shredder, they do so with no armor, protection, or whatever, and they NEVER showed any sign that it hurt. Don't you think, in the real world, it would hurt their hands and feet to assault Shredder in all that armor, or to get assaulted by him? Not to mention, Shredder has spikes on his armor, and yet the turtles kick or hit him in areas that are damn close to these spikes all the time.
I'd say the suit was more about keeping Raphael's ID hidden rather than for actual protection.

This whole thing's going nowhere anyway. It was Raphael who won the fight "fair and square" anyway. And bottom line is (as I've said before): any turtle can beat any of his brothers on any given day, and each turtle has an area in training where they're dominant over their brothers. There's not enough evidence, even here, to prove who's best.

Not sure if your talking to me or not but I'll just sat that that's fine--that was never my argument to begin with, someone else brought that up. my argument was that saying the suit limited his abilities is just an assumption considering he looked to be able to move and fight perfectly fine. And I agree, the suit seemed more like it aided him by protecting who he really was. That's why I said that if anything the suit would have been ditched had it limited his ability to use his fighting techniques.

The way I see it, and i'm guessing the way you see it, is that it was simply a fair fight. Raphael simply lost to Leo and vice versa. Nobody was limited or had anything holding their abilities back. They simply outfought each other using different methods.

[jenna]

I'm sure the suit was heavy- it is a well know fact that biker gear is heavy (my hubby used to ride a bike before his hysterical wife made him quit - yup, that's me: I'm neurotic - and I can tell you that his movement was very restricted), but I don't think anyone is using that as an excuse for raphael losing the first round. He would have lost that round anyway - becuase Leo was using his temper against him. "Funny thing about anger is, let it consume you, and you lose sight of everything" POW. It had nothing to do with how heavy the gear was, but that does not negate the fact that it would have been heavy anyway.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by triplexxx

If there's no reason to apply the "real-world" concepts that Raphael's suit slowed him down, even a little, or that his senses were a little dulled by the helmet, then there's no reason to apply the "real-world" concepts that the suit offered Raphael any protection from Leonardo's blows, or that Leonardo's punching or kicking him would hurt Leonardo in any way. You ever noticed when the turtle punch or kick Shredder, they do so with no armor, protection, or whatever, and they NEVER showed any sign that it hurt. Don't you think, in the real world, it would hurt their hands and feet to assault Shredder in all that armor, or to get assaulted by him? Not to mention, Shredder has spikes on his armor, and yet the turtles kick or hit him in areas that are damn close to these spikes all the time.
I'd say the suit was more about keeping Raphael's ID hidden rather than for actual protection.

This whole thing's going nowhere anyway. It was Raphael who won the fight "fair and square" anyway. And bottom line is (as I've said before): any turtle can beat any of his brothers on any given day, and each turtle has an area in training where they're dominant over their brothers. There's not enough evidence, even here, to prove who's best.

Out of curosity, is this some tongue and cheek humor going on here, and it seems that certain individuals still dont seem to get it?

Originally Posted by jenna

I'm sure the suit was heavy- it is a well know fact that biker gear is heavy (my hubby used to ride a bike before his hysterical wife made him quit - yup, that's me: I'm neurotic - and I can tell you that his movement was very restricted), but I don't think anyone is using that as an excuse for raphael losing the first round. He would have lost that round anyway - becuase Leo was using his temper against him. "Funny thing about anger is, let it consume you, and you lose sight of everything" POW. It had nothing to do with how heavy the gear was, but that does not negate the fact that it would have been heavy anyway.

I honestly wouldn't know how restricted Raph's movements would be, but I just could imagine the heat inside the damn suit! But according to some people on here, the Turtles bodies and feelings dont exist since they are a fictional character.

(Even though we do see that the Turtles do feel pain, Mikey claims his head hurts the following morning, and they all have band-aids sporadically placed. And oh, can't forget in the first movie, Raph was nearly killed, we saw blood on the Turtles, and they were nursing back wounds from the first fight with the foot. Not to mention Donny's look of pain while holding his arm after his fight with Shredder, and all the Turtles are panting, out of breath, when Mikey began to wonder at exactly what point did they lose control with the fight with Shredder.)

[vagrant718]

this argument is getting out of hand and is only going to keep on going. Everybody trying to find every little excuse they can think of to justify why their favorite turtle lost/won. The way i see it Leo won the against Nightwatcher and Raph won against Leo, but that doesnt mean that Raph is better, and who to say that if Leo had on a battle armor if the outcome would still be the same ? Leo had beaten Raph before, so have Mikey and so on and the same could probably be said vice versa. Can we all agree on that ?

[triplexxx]

The bottom line is (as I've said before): any turtle can beat any of his brothers on any given day, and each turtle has an area in training where they're dominant over their brothers. There's not enough evidence, even here, to prove who's best. That's all I was intending to prove. Today Raphael won against Leonardo in a fair fight, the next day, it could be different-it's unpredictable.

[Revan]

^ right on. on any given sunday

[Swany]

I've been doing some thinking and I really dont think either of them actually "won". I mean, Leo needed to be taken down a peg and Raph had to learn that he has to calm the beans sometimes.

Well thats my idea anyhoo.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by Swany

I've been doing some thinking and I really dont think either of them actually "won". I mean, Leo needed to be taken down a peg and Raph had to learn that he has to calm the beans sometimes.

Well thats my idea anyhoo.

Calm the beans? That's a new one. Where did you hear that expression from?

[Swany]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Calm the beans? That's a new one. Where did you hear that expression from?

Its one I use quite often. Picked it up...somewhere YEARS ago. Soundes better thn calm down methinks.