Why did the Turtles never refer to each other as brothers? - Page 3

Courk · 05-12-2007, 12:13 AM

That's a great pick up line. "So, uh... We're not related, ya know..."

jenna · 05-12-2007, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Courk

That's a great pick up line. "So, uh... We're not related, ya know..."

Can you imagine???

With regards to the family thing, there is a lot to be said for a surrogate family, which is a big theme in Film 1. You've got the surrogate families of the turtles and the foot under The Shredder's erm... paternity and the good surrogate family, in which there is love, survives whilst The Shredder's false family without love.

At the end of the day, as you have all said already, the likelihood of the turtles being related by blood are minimal, but it's the love that matters. And that is a theme in all turtles incanations. They love each other and Splinter, who loves them as sons.

bullet · 05-12-2007, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

The "We're not brothers" conversation was nonsensical, anyway. How could the Turtles know this for certain? They were 4 baby red earred sliders in a bowl, all the same age... it's not only possible they all came from the same batch of eggs and mother but likely.

well, how do they know for sure their real ages are in fact identical? i could walk into the local pet store and there'd be a bunch of turtles (among other animals) at "roughly" the same age...but of course they could've been from anywhere and everywhere. i mean, it doesn't really matter in the end because as you've said...they are brothers in every sense that matters.

*Andrew NDB* · 05-12-2007, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullet

well, how do they know for sure their real ages are in fact identical? i could walk into the local pet store and there'd be a bunch of turtles (among other animals) at "roughly" the same age...but of course they could've been from anywhere and everywhere. i mean, it doesn't really matter in the end because as you've said...they are brothers in every sense that matters.

Because almost all pet stores are buying from a specific breeder who is selling off offspring that are hatching at a specific time in the year. Maybe one egg or the other hatched before the other... but they almost certainly came from the same "batch" (or what-have-you) of eggs from a certain mother.

*Revan* · 05-12-2007, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rooish

I think in NT:TNM, Donatello actually did a DNA test to establish that they could mate with Venus

Wow... just... wow

I can understand what they are trying to do by introducing a love interest. I have often wondered how teenage boys can stand not having some one, anyone, for sexual attraction. Laird is quite adamant in his stance on the turtle's sexuality. "The turtles are not interested it females." But being a guy, I find that a little hard to believe.

Anyway, they went about it all wrong. The whole Venus thing was a swing and a miss.

I try to keep an open mind on things and I have decided that it matters little to me if the boys are, in fact, blood relatives. They are still brothers with a very close bond regardless of their bloodlines. So honestly, I don't mind either way.

*Andrew NDB* · 05-12-2007, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neutrino

Wow... just... wow

I can understand what they are trying to do by introducing a love interest. I have often wondered how teenage boys can stand not having some one, anyone, for sexual attraction. Laird is quite adamant in his stance on the turtle's sexuality. "The turtles are not interested it females." But being a guy, I find that a little hard to believe.

No, he said they're not interested in human females. And they shouldn't be.

jenna · 05-12-2007, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

No, he said they're not interested in human females. And they shouldn't be.

I could understand the turtles having feelings for human girls as there are slim pickin's in the mutant turtle world (assuming Venus never existed here) and let's face it they are teenage testosterone filled boys. But to act on any feelings... That would be sick. Ewwwww.

*Revan* · 05-12-2007, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

No, he said they're not interested in human females. And they shouldn't be.

Hmm. I must have mis-understood. Anyway it's not like they have any non human females around, except for Venus. The point remains, introducing a love interest was an ok idea, but they went about it all wrong.

*Andrew NDB* · 05-12-2007, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenna

I could understand the turtles having feelings for human girls as there are slim pickin's in the mutant turtle world (assuming Venus never existed here) and let's face it they are teenage testosterone filled boys. But to act on any feelings... That would be sick. Ewwwww.

Yeah, I mean, obviously they'd see ladies on MTV or a movie or something and maybe bust out with, "Hey, she's hot!" but that's really where it ends.

Laird's two decrees: 1) TMNT have never and will never date or be intimate with human females and, 2) There will never, ever be a female Turtle. I believe he directly said that to do either (in the Volume 4 lettercol, I believe) would be something akin to, "Creatively bankrupt."

Courk · 05-12-2007, 08:59 PM

I'll admit I would probably hate a TMNT love story, even if it was just one of the turtles. The thought of it makes me roll my eyes. However, it's the reasoning behind it that bothers me a bit. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's something like "it'd be like falling in love with a poodle." I think that's a bit of an over exaggeration. The turtles are actually capable of interacting and forming relationships with others, it's just that the line is drawn there. On a continuum, turtle-human falls between human-human and human-poodle. It's not equal with human-poodle.

*Revan* · 05-12-2007, 11:57 PM

The turtles are more human than some people I know.

*Andrew NDB* · 05-13-2007, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Courk

I'll admit I would probably hate a TMNT love story, even if it was just one of the turtles. The thought of it makes me roll my eyes. However, it's the reasoning behind it that bothers me a bit. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's something like "it'd be like falling in love with a poodle." I think that's a bit of an over exaggeration. The turtles are actually capable of interacting and forming relationships with others, it's just that the line is drawn there. On a continuum, turtle-human falls between human-human and human-poodle. It's not equal with human-poodle.

I'm a little divided on it myself, but I accept Laird's decree. I mean, there's super-intelligent gorillas out there in real life that can communicate flawlessly with sign language and the like... should it be cool for humans to form intimate relationships with them and the like, or vice versa? I see where Laird is coming from.

But don't get it twisted... Laird isn't against the Turtles forming romantic relationships at large. We've seen Michelangelo have a romantic relationship with the mutant Horridus in Volume 3, then again in Volume 4 with the alien Seri... and they even have babies together (unless he intends to reveal that Mike isn't the father, but we have every reason to believe he is).

Courk · 05-13-2007, 01:00 AM

I'm horrendously behind on the turtles, so I don't know how relationships have been handled. What's odd is that the idea of turtle-alien didn't make me roll my eyes. I guess Laird is right! That or I've been exposed to too many Mary Jane fan fics.

I do want to say that the turtles are a bit more advanced than signing gorillas.

I thought they could do basic things like signing "ball" or "want ball" to mean "Can you give me the ball?"

*Sage Ninja* · 05-15-2007, 01:45 AM

I think that it makes sence for the turtles to be attracted to the oppisite sex. I mean mutants or not the are male and teenagers and also I like to think of them as being hetarosexual (God I know I scewed that spelling up "straight") rather than asexual. I think of the turtles as being more human than animal any way, so the whole turtles feeling attraction to a human is the equivalant of having the hots for a poodle I think is just off. I do however agree with Laird that the turtles sexuality shouldn't be explored. feeling attraction is one thing but actually acting on it is weird since they are a diffrent specious from humans.

And as to the turtlesnot being brothers in the old toon goes. I don't get why so many people think that they wheren't. I always got the vibe that the turtles where brothers even if they didn;'t get all lovey-dovey with each other. And I don't think the turtles refering to each other as "best buddy" or "friend" means they didn't consider them selves brothers as well. Since the turtles only interacted with each other and only each other until the met April, I don't find it unreasonable that they consider them selves to be close friends as well. I mean who else would they be friends with if not each oither if they can't goout and interact with other people and make friends.

I think another thing fans need to take into consideration is the fact that in the old toon the cartoon was not as dramatic or gritty as the new toon was. The turtles wheren't really put into situations where their lives where in danger, so you didn't get to see the old toon turtles get all emotional and terrified over the loss of a brother, like the new toon does on occasion. So because of this what you get is a more relaxed interaction between the turtles where theyt are basically just chillin out in the lair together rather than agnst filled scenes where one of them might lose their life.

*triplexxx* · 05-15-2007, 03:40 AM

Well Sage Ninja, it's good to see you also think of the old-toon turtles as brothers.
However, about what you said about there being no situations in the old toon where one or some of the turtles' lives were at risk and the others were worried for his/their safety, on the contrary, there were several dangerous situations like this:

*What's Michaelangelo Good For: Michaelangelo had to rescue his brothers who were definitely in danger on Dr. Lessau's island.
*Blast From the Past: Raphael put his life on the line by volunteering as a hostage for Bebop and Rocksteady at the Asian-American Cultural Center while the others carried Splinter back to the lair to recuperate him from the amnesia he got from the smoke bomb.
*Michaelangelo's Birthday: When Michaelangelo left the lair because he thought they forgot his birthday the others went after him, and then when Shredder told him what he planned to do with his brothers, he broke out of his trap and teamed up with Splinter to find and save them.
*Raphael Vs. the Volcano: Donatello's Healthometer tells Raphael he has little time left to live and Michaelangelo gets pretty emotional about in the kitchen with Donatello, and then when they find out the machine is broken they have to go save him before he sacrafices himself to stop a chemical bomb from going off inside a volcano.

It's not all fun and games for them in the old toon either.
I mean sure, at the end of all these adventures you know the turtles get their "happily ever after", but the same goes for the new toon as well. In every TMNT universe since the comics, which I'm not really into, it's a given that the turtles always make it out alive in the end. And I know this all too well, which is why none of the material used in either of the cartoons nor any of the movies ever surprises me.

*Scandia* · 05-15-2007, 04:42 AM

I always got the impression that they were brothers. Or at least that they were raised by Splinter as brothers- regardless of whether they were biologically related or not. Plus as various people have pointed out, there are a few "brothers" and "sons" references in the OT. Just because it was not constantly said explicitly does not mean that it did not happen.

PipingPringle · 05-15-2007, 02:06 PM

I just watched part of an episode of OT (Back to the Egg) and lil' Leo called splinter "uncle splinter" what's up with that?

*Revan* · 05-15-2007, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PipingPringle

I just watched part of an episode of OT (Back to the Egg) and lil' Leo called splinter "uncle splinter" what's up with that?

uncool. He is there father. They should call him dad or daddy.

I am thinking that the writers did, in deed, go out of their way to avoid any family undertones. That was a perfect time for leo and mike to call splinter dad, but we get uncle!

*Scandia* · 05-15-2007, 05:32 PM

I know. Uncle also implies that Splinter would probably be bringing more fun and games than discipline and guidance. That he would get to play with the turtles but not raise them.

OK, so there are cases where people get raised by a biological uncle or aunt. BUT 4 turtles being raised by a rat would certainly not be it.

*Coola Yagami* · 05-15-2007, 05:43 PM

yeah, if Splinter's the uncle, then who pray tell is their father? Shredder?

05-12-2007, 11:57 PM	#51
Revan Han Shot First Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Paper Street Soap Company Posts: 3,687	The turtles are more human than some people I know. __________________

05-15-2007, 01:45 AM	#54
Sage Ninja Band of the Hawk Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: USA Posts: 3,924	I think that it makes sence for the turtles to be attracted to the oppisite sex. I mean mutants or not the are male and teenagers and also I like to think of them as being hetarosexual (God I know I scewed that spelling up "straight") rather than asexual. I think of the turtles as being more human than animal any way, so the whole turtles feeling attraction to a human is the equivalant of having the hots for a poodle I think is just off. I do however agree with Laird that the turtles sexuality shouldn't be explored. feeling attraction is one thing but actually acting on it is weird since they are a diffrent specious from humans. And as to the turtlesnot being brothers in the old toon goes. I don't get why so many people think that they wheren't. I always got the vibe that the turtles where brothers even if they didn;'t get all lovey-dovey with each other. And I don't think the turtles refering to each other as "best buddy" or "friend" means they didn't consider them selves brothers as well. Since the turtles only interacted with each other and only each other until the met April, I don't find it unreasonable that they consider them selves to be close friends as well. I mean who else would they be friends with if not each oither if they can't goout and interact with other people and make friends. I think another thing fans need to take into consideration is the fact that in the old toon the cartoon was not as dramatic or gritty as the new toon was. The turtles wheren't really put into situations where their lives where in danger, so you didn't get to see the old toon turtles get all emotional and terrified over the loss of a brother, like the new toon does on occasion. So because of this what you get is a more relaxed interaction between the turtles where theyt are basically just chillin out in the lair together rather than agnst filled scenes where one of them might lose their life. __________________ Cassandra: You won't fight me, but will you fight--for him! Cassandra's Revenge ~Tangled the Series ________________________________ http://frankviola.org/2012/01/30/godsviewofawoman/ _______________________________ http://nox-artemis.tumblr.com/post/4...k-and-feminism

05-15-2007, 03:40 AM	#55
triplexxx Mad Scientist Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,809	Well Sage Ninja, it's good to see you also think of the old-toon turtles as brothers. However, about what you said about there being no situations in the old toon where one or some of the turtles' lives were at risk and the others were worried for his/their safety, on the contrary, there were several dangerous situations like this: What's Michaelangelo Good For: Michaelangelo had to rescue his brothers who were definitely in danger on Dr. Lessau's island. Blast From the Past: Raphael put his life on the line by volunteering as a hostage for Bebop and Rocksteady at the Asian-American Cultural Center while the others carried Splinter back to the lair to recuperate him from the amnesia he got from the smoke bomb. Michaelangelo's Birthday: When Michaelangelo left the lair because he thought they forgot his birthday the others went after him, and then when Shredder told him what he planned to do with his brothers, he broke out of his trap and teamed up with Splinter to find and save them. Raphael Vs. the Volcano: Donatello's Healthometer tells Raphael he has little time left to live and Michaelangelo gets pretty emotional about in the kitchen with Donatello, and then when they find out the machine is broken they have to go save him before he sacrafices himself to stop a chemical bomb from going off inside a volcano. It's not all fun and games for them in the old toon either. I mean sure, at the end of all these adventures you know the turtles get their "happily ever after", but the same goes for the new toon as well. In every TMNT universe since the comics, which I'm not really into, it's a given that the turtles always make it out alive in the end. And I know this all too well, which is why none of the material used in either of the cartoons nor any of the movies ever surprises me. __________________ Please don't shoot me Mr. Big Mike. I'm too young and good-looking to die, well too young. I got a father, I got a mother, I got a grandmother, I got a little sister...and a little brother this high (raises hand), and a little brother this high (lowers hand), and little brother this high (lowers hand), and a little brother this high (lowers hand), and a little brother this high (lowers hand) and then I got a great big brother this high (slaps gun and runs). "Fright Night" - Three Stooges

05-15-2007, 02:06 PM	#57
PipingPringle Hench Mutant Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlantic Canada Posts: 475	I just watched part of an episode of OT (Back to the Egg) and lil' Leo called splinter "uncle splinter" what's up with that? __________________

05-12-2007, 12:13 AM	#41
Courk Hench Mutant Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 321	That's a great pick up line. "So, uh... We're not related, ya know..."

05-12-2007, 08:59 PM	#50
Courk Hench Mutant Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 321	I'll admit I would probably hate a TMNT love story, even if it was just one of the turtles. The thought of it makes me roll my eyes. However, it's the reasoning behind it that bothers me a bit. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's something like "it'd be like falling in love with a poodle." I think that's a bit of an over exaggeration. The turtles are actually capable of interacting and forming relationships with others, it's just that the line is drawn there. On a continuum, turtle-human falls between human-human and human-poodle. It's not equal with human-poodle.

05-13-2007, 01:00 AM	#53
Courk Hench Mutant Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 321	I'm horrendously behind on the turtles, so I don't know how relationships have been handled. What's odd is that the idea of turtle-alien didn't make me roll my eyes. I guess Laird is right! That or I've been exposed to too many Mary Jane fan fics. I do want to say that the turtles are a bit more advanced than signing gorillas. I thought they could do basic things like signing "ball" or "want ball" to mean "Can you give me the ball?"

05-15-2007, 04:42 AM	#56
Scandia Mad Scientist Join Date: May 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 2,265	I always got the impression that they were brothers. Or at least that they were raised by Splinter as brothers- regardless of whether they were biologically related or not. Plus as various people have pointed out, there are a few "brothers" and "sons" references in the OT. Just because it was not constantly said explicitly does not mean that it did not happen.

05-15-2007, 05:32 PM	#59
Scandia Mad Scientist Join Date: May 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 2,265	I know. Uncle also implies that Splinter would probably be bringing more fun and games than discipline and guidance. That he would get to play with the turtles but not raise them. OK, so there are cases where people get raised by a biological uncle or aunt. BUT 4 turtles being raised by a rat would certainly not be it.

05-15-2007, 05:43 PM	#60
Coola Yagami Overlord Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 15,646	yeah, if Splinter's the uncle, then who pray tell is their father? Shredder?