What if all we had was FF?

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Rooish

My issue is that FF wouldn't feel like the TMNT to me. You can stick anyone in the future. They could be people just as easily. They aren't special if everything is a mutant or an alien.

That was my problem with the new TMNT movie, too. It could really have been anybody in that plot.

Yet your user image is from the movie? heh but I do agree about the movie at least.
Nothing against you but I find it funny how people bash the idea of them being in the future in the cartoon but it's on when done by peter laird in the comics. I just don't get people it seems like the fans are never happy.

[triplexxx]

It'd have been miles beneath "special" to have four humans fighting the Generals in the climax.

[Rooish]

Yeah, my user image is from the movie ... I like that image though! Let me have my fun ... I never denied that the new movie had awesome animation/character designs/VAs and ... some good scenes.

In fact, now that I've seen the deleted scenes and read some Munroe interviews and heard some of his commentaries, I think it's pretty poignant that he had such truly good ideas for the movie that were mostly butchered by those in charge. I wouldn't have minded the monsters so much if I'd felt like it was actually a Turtles movie and not a good-guys-fighting-monsters-with-brief-awesome-Leo-Raph-fight-scene movie. But that's what it felt like to me and that's what FF feels like to me. I don't hate either ... FF is pretty funny and I enjoy it. It just doesn't really feel like it was moulded around the Turtles. Could have been anybody.

And I don't even like it when Peter Laird does it. The TMNT comics I liked best are the ones that weren't too outrageous and didn't have too many monsters/mutants. I know that's a bit stupid, since the Turtles themselves are completely outrageous and all the comics had some far-fetchedness. But ... well ... I'm a sucker for "Return to New York" and "City at War" and "Sons of the Silent Age" and other ones that are really dark and Turtle-centric and/or the ones that point out how unique and alone the Turtles are. Even though they are all sci-fi to an extent.

The Turtles just aren't as special if there are too many monsters/mutants besides them, and I don't care if Peter Laird disagrees; I can't change things, anyway. I still enjoyed his Volume 4 comics for what they were. I thought they had good character development.

Maybe I complain too much, but ... I didn't mean to? I thought my previous post was pretty innocent. I just mentioned the problem I would have had with FF. I'm so glad we got 2k3; it's the best thing to happen to the Turtles since the old comics, in my opinion.

Edit: Oh yeah, Spitfire, I totally agree about the Dreamwave comics! Good art, though.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by triplexxx

It'd have been miles beneath "special" to have four humans fighting the Generals in the climax.

What he meant was you could have had four teenage boys go through the same story (it would still be a fantasy film of course), which is somthing you can't really say about most TMNT stories. But, I still love it.

[Jo Dawn]

Originally Posted by Putrescent

Jo Did you even really watch the show be honest? because the entire season of FF had 4 story lines going on if not more.
And Cody isn't even in every single episode especially on the latest dvd that came out.
Also what's the point of watching a childrens show then saying it's silly and childish?
You Know as much as anyone else the turtles won't ever be looked at beyong a kids show on tv and it's because of the 80's cartoon.

Yep, I sure watched it. Ever long, suffering unfunny moment of it. And so I could have an opinion of it without people saying 'you never saw it!!!!111!'.

Cody being in it AT ALL is enough to make me loathe it. Along with some OOC moments... And many other things.

We all know children's shows can be GOOD. Not childish, not silly. There are tons of examples to show that.

And I loathe the idea that people must judge on one medium as the starting point, especially when they are wrong and it's a not-great starting point to begin with. People need to be educated and, you know, read, lol.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Jo Dawn

Yep, I sure watched it. Ever long, suffering unfunny moment of it. And so I could have an opinion of it without people saying 'you never saw it!!!!111!'.

Cody being in it AT ALL is enough to make me loathe it. Along with some OOC moments... And many other things.

We all know children's shows can be GOOD. Not childish, not silly. There are tons of examples to show that.

And I loathe the idea that people must judge on one medium as the starting point, especially when they are wrong and it's a not-great starting point to begin with. People need to be educated and, you know, read, lol.

Did you never enjoy cartoons as a kid?
Cause you may say cartoons today can be epic and all of that but cartoons in the first place where never like that.
I just think it's funny everyone wants cartoons to be soap operas today.
I say let the kids have fun we try to make children grow up way to fast these days by making everything for adults.

[Jo Dawn]

I did enjoy cartoons as a child. ALOT of them, but not all. I wasn't a fan of 'silly' then, either, though. So...

And I'm all for not making kids grow up to fast, but I'm also against making EVERYTHING kid-friendly. Makes it suck for those of us without kids or who don't like silly kid-things.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Putrescent

Did you never enjoy cartoons as a kid?
Cause you may say cartoons today can be epic and all of that but cartoons in the first place where never like that.
I just think it's funny everyone wants cartoons to be soap operas today.
I say let the kids have fun we try to make children grow up way to fast these days by making everything for adults.

In her defense, she isn't a kid anymore. But , I do know what you mean and your'e right.

[Revan]

Originally Posted by Rooish

My issue is that FF wouldn't feel like the TMNT to me. You can stick anyone in the future. They could be people just as easily. They aren't special if everything is a mutant or an alien.

That was my problem with the new TMNT movie, too. It could really have been anybody in that plot.

I see what you mean. The turtles are not aliens. They are special. They are mutants who would not even exist if it weren't for a freak accident. That alone makes them special. The fact that they were one drop away, one glass jar away, one storm drain away from never existing. And then you get all these aliens in which there is nothing miraculous about their origin and throw the turtles in the mix with them. Now we have 4 turtles destined for greatness fighting bumbling street phantoms. Am I even making any sense anymore?

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Jo Dawn

I did enjoy cartoons as a child. ALOT of them, but not all. I wasn't a fan of 'silly' then, either, though. So...

And I'm all for not making kids grow up to fast, but I'm also against making EVERYTHING kid-friendly. Makes it suck for those of us without kids or who don't like silly kid-things.

That's why we have Adult cartoon and Cartoons For children.
I'm in no way bashing you Joe or what you believe I just find it silly that you think all cartoons should be one way because you think they should be.
Most cartoons are made for children I wouldn't expect anything less from a company called 4kids you know?
And I'm not saying you want kids to grow up to fast but I'm saying we as a society expect way to much of children at this point i look at the stuff 12 year old girls are wearing walking down the street and I think to myself lord they look like hookers...that's all I'm saying I like my kids cartoons to be that and my adult cartoons like family guy and aqua teen to be that for adults.
I know allot of fans who wont be happy untill every small bit of the old cartoon and any silly in the turtles world is a past thought but I'm sorry to break this news but it's gonna be here for a long time because so many kids grew up with that as their ideal version of tmnt.
I can't blame 4kids for trying to do the same even if they failed at it with the new series as a whole.

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

In her defense, she isn't a kid anymore. But , I do know what you mean and your'e right.

Exactly so why should some one care what's on a childrens tv program as long as it isn't teaching them bad things? eh?
Yeah so many people cry about how cartoons like Fosters & Sponge Bob are stupid or that it doesn't make any sence has anyone stoped to think that kids find shows like these entertaining because they're silly and goofy and it's nice even for an adult like me to sit down with my little cousins and enjoy them and laugh with them and get away from this horrible world we live in even if it's for a half hour.

[Jo Dawn]

...Does it surprise you that I cannot stand Spongebob? Hahah

The cartoons don't have to be 'adult'. They can be for kids. But they just shouldn't be idiotically stupid. Kids are smart (well...) and I don't think a cartoon has to be so stupid to be a 'kid's cartoon'. It doesn't have to be adult or 'soap opera-ish' (which I also hate, by the way). Just not mind-numbingly stupid.

But, that doesn't matter I suppose. We're out of the age of actual reading for fun and learning and all that. I guess 'stupid entertainment' is where it's at. Check out reality tv. Hah.

Anyhow. It's off topic, I suppose.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Jo Dawn

...Does it surprise you that I cannot stand Spongebob? Hahah

The cartoons don't have to be 'adult'. They can be for kids. But they just shouldn't be idiotically stupid. Kids are smart (well...) and I don't think a cartoon has to be so stupid to be a 'kid's cartoon'. It doesn't have to be adult or 'soap opera-ish' (which I also hate, by the way). Just not mind-numbingly stupid.

But, that doesn't matter I suppose. We're out of the age of actual reading for fun and learning and all that. I guess 'stupid entertainment' is where it's at. Check out reality tv. Hah.

Anyhow. It's off topic, I suppose.

We've had stupid programs & Characters for a very long time people love stupidity. & I dislike Spongebob also it was just an example of shows kids love that are ultra silly.

[Jo Dawn]

Originally Posted by Putrescent

We've had stupid programs & Characters for a very long time people love stupidity.

Yeah... I know, unfortunately. It explains so much, no?



(And not this person.)

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Jo Dawn

Yeah... I know, unfortunately. It explains so much, no?



(And not this person.)

It does for me with my music and art at least and the things i post on my own sites people look at images they don't read, and people would rather have things made easy for them it's no one's fault but our own societies though.
hahah at least we can agree on something

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Putrescent

I say let the kids have fun we try to make children grow up way to fast these days by making everything for adults.

And that's why we have Puca, because of people like you who get the wrong posistions in the right companies APPROVING that s*ite thinking they know what children think. It's a tired, useless mentality

[ToTheNines]

Back on topic (kinda), I've got a perfect comparison for how stupid the premise of FF is:

Say the next issue of X-men comes out, and immidiatley you notice the art is garbage. You read on to discover that the main team has been accidentally trasnported to the future by the mary sue great grandson of Collosus and Shadow Kat. In the future, their is no mutant oppression and Stryker has become President of some retarted alliance. As the X-men go about fighting uninspired new villians and a fat guy who wants to run a big corperation, Wolverine, Cyclops, Nightcrawler, Beast and Storm go around yelling "It's mutant time!" and Xavier sits around and acts nothing like himself.

Do you think X-men fans would stand for this for one second? NO. Now this series did grow on me (1 because it's TMNT and 2 because it actually got better as time went on) but it's just a friggin stupid idea.

[Masked Ninja]

If FF had had the same art style as 2k3, I wouldn't have been instantly repulsed by it, true. So I probably would have given it more of a chance (as I tried to do anyway by watching the first three episodes). But once the "updated" weapons came out, I probably would have begun doubting. I freely admit that I haven't watched the rest of FF, but I'll ask this: have the future-type weapons ever been any more useful than the Turtles' old weapons would have been? Or do they do more than just glow? Besides the weapons, I think there would have been an overall sick feeling of "I don't like where this is going..."

Now, I thought a few ideas within the premise (the different environmental zones for one, if that had been explored for its darker, more serious implications - like what happens to poor aliens who can't afford spiffy gear?) were cool, but overall... it takes the turtles away from everything that I like about them, mostly their need to hide in the shadows as ninja (because if someone sees them, who cares?), and the loss of all their classic friends and allies. Even New York isn't really New York anymore.

I do plan to watch FF eventually, just to get a final and informed opinion on it (and especially since people say it does get better as it goes). But I gotta say, what I saw in the first three episodes doesn't exactly excite and motivate me.

As for the "but it is meant for kids, y'know" topic... there are plenty of shows that have very simple humor and require little thought to be amused by them. When the occasional dramatic gem like 2k3 and (IMO) Avatar or Gargoyles come along, people who like drama will go for those. It's why we have different genres, yes? (hint: "Animation" is not a genre) So the main thing that bugs me about Fast Forward is that 2k3 was doing the "drama + bits of humor" thing quite well, and FF felt the need to dilute itself to be more "accessible." And it may have gained some younger viewers, but at the cost of many people who liked the series for what it had been.

So I guess to sum up, the art style is only really scratching the surface of what bothers me about Fast Forward. I do plan on actually watching the whole season to try and find redeeming qualities, though. When I can get up the nerve.

[Spitfire]

Yeah the idea isn't very good but it was planned to happen in 2K3 anyways. That's where my issues with it go away. Look at the stories, just look beyond the silliness and the animation.

How jacked up is it that Daruis is trying to kill his own family so he can be in control of the company?
How wicked was Konabo's plan? I mean turning the entire planet into his slaves so he can suck it dry. That's a pretty cool concept.

The Dark Turtles as well, savage evil clones of the turtles who look pretty cool to match.

A guy who can download the ability to kick the crap out of the turtles into his head, steal peoples bodies, and hack anything. I always saw him as a spoof of The Matrix.

Then you got Zixx the ultimate bounty hunter who dupes the turtles into doing stuff for him.

Also the Gunjin this warrior race we know little about other then they were captured by Darius and being treated as slaves.

Now yes the way these episodes were executed were kiddy for the most part I won't argue that. Yeah the art style is pretty bad compared to 2K3*It started to grow on me though* but when you look at the core of it if Laird was allowed to make this show the same way the previous seasons had been made it would have been a pretty bad ass season.

I accept the tone change and respect what he had to do to air this season and that is the reason why.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

And that's why we have Puca, because of people like you who get the wrong posistions in the right companies APPROVING that s*ite thinking they know what children think. It's a tired, useless mentality

Dude children don't all like the same thing and I know children like differnt things not everything has to be the same thing all the time.
I don't see why everyone wants everything to be dark and broding all the time I like having a mix of both I find it funny this coming from some one who would defend the old ninja turtles cartoons to the death.
People really have forgotten what cartoons where all about entertainment sure we have out crazy death killer cartoons, we have our idiodic homer simpsons and peter griffins for teens and adults, I know tuns of kids, teens and adults who watch all kinds of cartoons including myself it's pretty much the only thing on tv that I watch.
And you know me so well because? If it wa sup to me the turtles would be a cartoon on sundaynights on fox with the other big toons for adults and they would get cut and face real villians and go through other storys just like in the comic not the namby pamby crap that they did in 2k3's atempt I'd also hire a a good comedy writting team to toss a few good jokes in there.
shesh get of your high horse and come down to earth man.

[odupianist]

I think a major problem with FF is just that it is so inconsequential. After you've seen the long story-arcs and character development from 2k3 you find that when you're suddenly thrust into the future it's very jarring. Because in the back of your mind you know that eventually they'll just go back home and that's it.

That's my view at least.

That's what happens when you get shoved in to the future. The future is full of short stories and short story arcs. Sometimes there aren't even story arcs in the future. It's just a fact.

EDIT: oh and my two cents on the original topic (now that most of you have forgotten it or moved on to something totally different), I think if we had had the angular style first but the same story lines, I think we would have still liked it. I still don't like the art style, but I've sucked it up bc it is turtles. I think someone said it already, but the reason some of us don't like the angular style is because we had some damn good art beforehand with the 2k3 series. And as for DW, it was great art, lame stories. Although I wish I could have seen the sentient mouser story. Okay I'm done.