We Fans Get Shafted - Page 2

Dragon Turtle · 07-19-2009, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdp

Larger fanbase and have been around longer.

TMNT gets treated very good to other shows from its era.

I would be happy if TMNT got at least the same treatment as , Dungeons n Dragons, BraveStarr, Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors or even Filmation's Ghostbusters.

**GK Punk** · 07-19-2009, 09:20 PM

And I believe all of those were BCI Eclipse, which is exactly who I mentioned earlier in the thread. I'm really upset they had to close their doors, they did such fantastic work and every show they touched. I think their Masters of the Universe DVDs were some of the best box sets I've ever had.

Blade Raider · 07-19-2009, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raph's Girl

The G.I Joe figs first came out in the 60's but the cartoon and comics didn't come out till 1985.

Transformers figs have been around since the 70's but the cartoon/anime and Marvel comics series didn't start till September 1984.

So technically comic wise TMNT is older...

There's so many wrong statements in your post.

Let's begin with that last statement.

GI Joe: A Real American Hero (sometimes GI Joe vs. Cobra. You know, when the fiction was added) started in 1982 with the toys and the Marvel Comics (I'd have to check the dates). I'm not sure which of the two came out first, toys or comics, but I believe it was the comics. The cartoon started in late 82-83 as a mini-series and then became a full series in 1985.

Transformers, on the other hand, started with their Marvel comics in May of 1984. The same month that TMNT #1 was released. The toys came out months later and the cartoon did indeed start in September of 84.

EDIT: I went and checked, TF # 1 was released on May 8th, 1984 with the cover date of September. That could have caused some of the confusion.

Now then, if you haven't figured it out from the above paragraph about GI Joe, it beats both TMNT and Transformers by over a year.

Transformers, the brand, did not exist until 84. Before then, most of the toys belonged to the toyline Micromen (known better as Micronauts in the US). Some belonged to other toylines as well, but the bulk came from there. Saying Transformers existed as a toyline since the 70's is like saying Power Rangers existed since the 70's because of it's mostly unrelated Japanese counterpart, Super Sentai. You probably could agrue about that point until the cows come home, but the fact of the matter is that Transformers did not exist AS Transformers until 1984.

Hope this has been informative and as always...

Anyways, if they make a full series set, there are things that will make me buy it.

1) The missing episodes, damnit!
2) Corrected episode order. I want those Europe episodes and the missing episodes in the right places. Also, parts of seasons 4 and 6 are out of order (though that's fixed by switching around the discs).
3) Better quality on volumes 1-6. The VHS quality sucks at times.
4) More extras while keeping the old one.

Aside from the first and maybe the second one, I doubt it'd ever happen. Knowing companies, they'll just repack all the old discs and maybe add a bonus disc.

Back on topic of TMNT getting shafted. Both GI Joe and Transformers are much bigger than TMNT right now. If it was the early 90's, than it's be the opposite (TMNT was big and GI Joe and TF were dying). To compare them right now would be like comparing a peasant and a knight. Which one do you think is going to get all the rewards and glory?

GodzFire · 07-20-2009, 02:16 PM

It's a joke that a series as popular as TMNT has gotten this treatment.

- Missing episodes, with the publisher refusing to acknowledge the problem

- Poor episode quality, not even going back to the original material

- Episodes out of order, even by SEASON!

- Next to no special features considering the huge amount of potential stuff like toys, character profiles, voice actors, behind the scenes, commentary ("full frame" and "mono 2.0" aren't special features!)

- Non-uniform DVD releases with repetitive artwork

I agree, TMNT has been treated very poorly compared to other DVD releases, and it's very sad that most "fans" are happy with it.

This is the only chance we got for these releases. We miss our chance now to say something, we'll never have another one, (I highly doubt Lionsgate is going to put the series out on BluRay)

*ZariusTwo* · 07-20-2009, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spitfire

What baffles me is how there's a slew of 25+ year olds who want to see movies based off toylines from their childhood. Transformers, Gi Joe, He-man, Max Steel*Seriously they want to do this one*, and Thundercats. These shows had no substance

That's a LOAD of bulls*it you're snorting there. It's obvious you never watched those shows at all.

*Spitfire* · 07-20-2009, 11:11 PM

I've seen all of those shows actually. I used to watch Transformers all the time, the Beast Wars one. When I was really little I watched He-man and I used to love Thundercats. Coming back to them as an adult however my child lenses were gone and that is how I viewed them. It was about merchandise. He-man was especially bad. No offense to anyone who likes that show but the writing was horrible. The animation is in the running for the worst I've ever seen. They repeated scenes like mad.

To be honest I'm sure I'd feel that way about turtles if I hadn't grew up with it. Tiffany bought Ghostbusters recently and it was pretty terrible. She loves it though because she grew up watching it.

Blade Raider · 07-21-2009, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spitfire

What baffles me is how there's a slew of 25+ year olds who want to see movies based off toylines from their childhood. Transformers, Gi Joe, He-man, Max Steel*Seriously they want to do this one*, and Thundercats.

What does Max Steel have to do with this? That was made in the early 2000's, not the 80's like every other show you mentioned.

Also, ThunderCats fairs better than most of those shows. The only problem I see with ThunderCats is the forced morals at the end of each episode. It was created to be a good TV show and not a toy ad, the rest were.

He-Man was the first to be allowed to make a cartoon tie-in for toys. I can't really say anything else about it because I've honestly never seen a full episode of it.

You say you've seen Beast Wars, well that's my bread and butter and I consider it on par with 2k3 in terms of depth, storytelling, and having toys in the show. Beast Machines, the follow up to BW, is arguably one of the deepest non-anime animations I've ever seen. It's hated by fans for ruining the BW characters that continue into BM from BW (also, most of the toys were god awful too boot).

I think what helps the OT is that it wasn't suppose to be taken seriously. Transformers and GI Joe were suppose to be serious. I'm currently watching that Transformers boxset and I randomly just start laughing from the absurdity of some of it. Also helpping the OT is it's small cast. It's clear that both TF and GI Joe have too many characters.

Still, I consider all of them better than cartoons these days. Nowadays, it can't be a cartoon unless it has a card game or Pokemon-ish gimmick in it. They even tried to make a season like that for TMNT!

As for animation, ya don't have a leg to stand on because most of those shows were animated by Toei, including TMNT. You've just become accustomed to the OT's sometimes crappy animation.

*Tinuvielsdreams* · 07-21-2009, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spitfire

I've seen all of those shows actually. I used to watch Transformers all the time, the Beast Wars one. When I was really little I watched He-man and I used to love Thundercats. Coming back to them as an adult however my child lenses were gone and that is how I viewed them. It was about merchandise. He-man was especially bad. No offense to anyone who likes that show but the writing was horrible. The animation is in the running for the worst I've ever seen. They repeated scenes like mad.

To be honest I'm sure I'd feel that way about turtles if I hadn't grew up with it. Tiffany bought Ghostbusters recently and it was pretty terrible. She loves it though because she grew up watching it.

Haha yeah...I do love that show. It's hard to get past production quality when you are old enough to know better. I think the ultimate point is that they were awesome for their time and for all we knew

I was surprised at that GI Joe Boxset because Turtles was very popular too but it's all about who markets it I suppose

LioConvoy · 07-21-2009, 03:30 PM

You actually think Thundercats got a better treatment?

Seriously?

Have you SEEN the special features on those monster Box Sets? Here, let me give you nightmare fuel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHBIRXAD3hE

Oh, and the one before that? Interviews by people who had NOTHING to do with the show. Just fans. And not even famous fans. I could understand if they interviewed, like, Chuck Norris if he was a Thundercats fan or something. But this is just horrible.

Oh, and Disk One of Part One of Season One? It had to be recalled on account on the second episode having NO background sound. And on TOP of that, and Pilot Episodes were the EDITED versions. Not the VHS or Broadcast versions. And the Box Art was horrible.

**GK Punk** · 07-21-2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spitfire

He-man was especially bad. No offense to anyone who likes that show but the writing was horrible. The animation is in the running for the worst I've ever seen. They repeated scenes like mad.

I disagree, go look up the talent that worked on Masters of the Universe and you may be surprised. Paul Dini, Bruce Timm, J Michael Straczynski... And it was the most expensive animated show of it's time. They had to use stock footage to keep the cost down due to how expensive it was to produce. But all the stock shots were well animated.

The stories were aimed towards younger children, so I could understand not finding appeal in it as an adult. The only real reason I do is because of my connection to it from when I was a child. But I can still appreciate the show for what it is. If it was really horrible, not even I could watch it. (There's a lot of shows I liked as a kid I just can't get myself to watch anymore...)

MurderOfCrows · 07-23-2009, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spitfire

What baffles me is how there's a slew of 25+ year olds who want to see movies based off toylines from their childhood. Transformers, Gi Joe, He-man, Max Steel*Seriously they want to do this one*, and Thundercats.

You are seriously not suggesting Thundercats, which had continuity, storyline, and plot that was advanced for the time in which it was put out, is not as good as turtles, which was solely for the marketing of a toy line for Playmates so Mirage could make a buck on action figure sale?

Are... you are for real? Seriously. Did you grow up on ANY of those shows?

I mean, He-Man, GI Joe, Max Steel -- yeah, I'll give you those -- especially He-Man and Max Steel -- but I'll punch you through the internet if you talk anymore of this drivel about Thundercats when you apparently have never watched an episode. They had continuity and character development that was ASTOUNDING for an early eighties cartoon. The Old Toon HAD NONE. The characters were completely static! I mean, I love my childhood, but I'm not blind to it's flaws. The Old Toon is not an animated opus by any means, guys. Thundercats outstrips it for storyline and plot by a thousand miles.

*Spike Spiegel* · 07-23-2009, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Look at this

Maybe with the new movie on the horizon we can badger Lion's Gate to give us a full series set and a reason to get it. A cool box deal like that would be nice. I wouldn't mind paying for the episodes again if they presented them well. I need new copies of them anyways, mine are getting old.

I hate the fact that these DVDs of TMNT are coming out season by season as well. When I finally got the all in one Batman TAS set, all of the episodes at once, it was great! I don't see why TMNT can't get the same treatment.

*sdp* · 07-23-2009, 09:57 AM

Full series releases are VERY rare and only happen when there is a large enough fanbase. Especially with a series as big as TMNT 87.

Lionsgate isn't doing an amazing job by any means but they are getting the show out there, thats all I ask. If the show had been older then it would have gotten a better treatment like the other shows. The 80s shows now had an older fanbase of people with nostalgia, when the first TMNT DVD came out I was a Junior in High School. A lot of the fanbase was still too young to be all nostalgic about it like other 80s properties.

Oh, and almost every cartoon is a toy ad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GK

I disagree, go look up the talent that worked on Masters of the Universe and you may be surprised. Paul Dini, Bruce Timm, J Michael Straczynski... And it was the most expensive animated show of it's time. They had to use stock footage to keep the cost down due to how expensive it was to produce. But all the stock shots were well animated.

The stories were aimed towards younger children, so I could understand not finding appeal in it as an adult. The only real reason I do is because of my connection to it from when I was a child. But I can still appreciate the show for what it is. If it was really horrible, not even I could watch it. (There's a lot of shows I liked as a kid I just can't get myself to watch anymore...)

Bruce Timm had nothing to do with the show, and it just shows that Paul Dini can write a bad show.

I only caught a few re-runs of He-Man (mostly She-ra) as a kid, anyways I guess the fandom and seeing the boxsets made me want to check out he-man. I bought the best 10 episodes dvd and wow the show is unwatchable, it was a hassle to be able to get through the ten episodes. And those were the 10 best fan voted episodes. The show is not well animated but whats to blame is the character models were not easy to animate like most old shows. Sorry but you are definitely seeing the show through Nostalgia goggles, which nothing is wrong with that, you like what you like.

**GK Punk** · 07-23-2009, 11:47 AM

Of course I am, but when I did watch it again, I was surprised that it looked better and the stories were told better than I remembered. Keep in mind that show is from 1983 and aimed at younger children than TMNT was, so they tried to keep the stories to a lesson then move on.

Couldn't find it on Youtube, but Evilseed's death scene was one of the best animated sequences I've seen on a TV show.

*Spitfire* · 07-23-2009, 12:57 PM

Well this got way off course. The point of this was to discuss why turtles doesn't have a boxset, not compare it to other TV series.

I'll leave it at this. I may not like those series, you guys obviously do. That's awesome and I'm glad those shows got some good treatment. I was never saying any series was less worthy or anything like that. I personally just didn't feel the same way about them as you guys do.

And for the record I've seen all of Thunder Cats. I used to watch it every day when Toonami ran it. I've seen all the episodes at least twice. I loved it.

And I mentioned Max Steel because believe it or not they want to make a Max Steel movie.

**GK Punk** · 07-23-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spitfire

I personally just didn't feel the same way about them as you guys do.

And that's cool with me. I prefer disagreeing with you over stuff like this than most of the people here. With you it's left at "We disagree, but that's cool"

**Jester** · 07-23-2009, 03:22 PM

Yeah, that's our Chris...

*Cipher* · 07-25-2009, 01:23 AM

The TMNT and Transformers fanbases aren't even comparable. Transformers has been pumping out a steady stream of toys and fiction (some of it very adult-oriented) since the mid-eighties, practically non-stop. It can support gigantic conventions every year, and has a loyal following of adult fans in addition to whatever generation of kids it's hooked. It's a sci-fi/toy collecting behemoth.

No way can I be surprised that Transformers gets better treatment than TMNT, which has still (for a host of reasons) failed to establish itself as a largely recognized comic series. But even then it's not top-notch. Where are my NTSC Region 1 sets of the Takara series? Oh yeah, coming never.

07-20-2009, 11:11 PM	#26
Spitfire Writer • Director Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 12,035	I've seen all of those shows actually. I used to watch Transformers all the time, the Beast Wars one. When I was really little I watched He-man and I used to love Thundercats. Coming back to them as an adult however my child lenses were gone and that is how I viewed them. It was about merchandise. He-man was especially bad. No offense to anyone who likes that show but the writing was horrible. The animation is in the running for the worst I've ever seen. They repeated scenes like mad. To be honest I'm sure I'd feel that way about turtles if I hadn't grew up with it. Tiffany bought Ghostbusters recently and it was pretty terrible. She loves it though because she grew up watching it. __________________ Check out my online portfolio http://www.christopherpelletier.com/

07-23-2009, 12:57 PM	#35
Spitfire Writer • Director Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 12,035	Well this got way off course. The point of this was to discuss why turtles doesn't have a boxset, not compare it to other TV series. I'll leave it at this. I may not like those series, you guys obviously do. That's awesome and I'm glad those shows got some good treatment. I was never saying any series was less worthy or anything like that. I personally just didn't feel the same way about them as you guys do. And for the record I've seen all of Thunder Cats. I used to watch it every day when Toonami ran it. I've seen all the episodes at least twice. I loved it. And I mentioned Max Steel because believe it or not they want to make a Max Steel movie. __________________ Check out my online portfolio http://www.christopherpelletier.com/

07-23-2009, 03:22 PM	#37
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,294	Yeah, that's our Chris... __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

07-19-2009, 09:20 PM	#22
GK Punk I'm your Devil Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,439	And I believe all of those were BCI Eclipse, which is exactly who I mentioned earlier in the thread. I'm really upset they had to close their doors, they did such fantastic work and every show they touched. I think their Masters of the Universe DVDs were some of the best box sets I've ever had.

07-20-2009, 02:16 PM	#24
GodzFire Hench Mutant Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Sewers Posts: 292	It's a joke that a series as popular as TMNT has gotten this treatment. - Missing episodes, with the publisher refusing to acknowledge the problem - Poor episode quality, not even going back to the original material - Episodes out of order, even by SEASON! - Next to no special features considering the huge amount of potential stuff like toys, character profiles, voice actors, behind the scenes, commentary ("full frame" and "mono 2.0" aren't special features!) - Non-uniform DVD releases with repetitive artwork I agree, TMNT has been treated very poorly compared to other DVD releases, and it's very sad that most "fans" are happy with it. This is the only chance we got for these releases. We miss our chance now to say something, we'll never have another one, (I highly doubt Lionsgate is going to put the series out on BluRay)

07-21-2009, 03:30 PM	#29
LioConvoy Random Punk Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 44	You actually think Thundercats got a better treatment? Seriously? Have you SEEN the special features on those monster Box Sets? Here, let me give you nightmare fuel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHBIRXAD3hE Oh, and the one before that? Interviews by people who had NOTHING to do with the show. Just fans. And not even famous fans. I could understand if they interviewed, like, Chuck Norris if he was a Thundercats fan or something. But this is just horrible. Oh, and Disk One of Part One of Season One? It had to be recalled on account on the second episode having NO background sound. And on TOP of that, and Pilot Episodes were the EDITED versions. Not the VHS or Broadcast versions. And the Box Art was horrible.

07-23-2009, 11:47 AM	#34
GK Punk I'm your Devil Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,439	Of course I am, but when I did watch it again, I was surprised that it looked better and the stories were told better than I remembered. Keep in mind that show is from 1983 and aimed at younger children than TMNT was, so they tried to keep the stories to a lesson then move on. Couldn't find it on Youtube, but Evilseed's death scene was one of the best animated sequences I've seen on a TV show.

07-25-2009, 01:23 AM	#38
Cipher Foot Elite Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 3,454	The TMNT and Transformers fanbases aren't even comparable. Transformers has been pumping out a steady stream of toys and fiction (some of it very adult-oriented) since the mid-eighties, practically non-stop. It can support gigantic conventions every year, and has a loyal following of adult fans in addition to whatever generation of kids it's hooked. It's a sci-fi/toy collecting behemoth. No way can I be surprised that Transformers gets better treatment than TMNT, which has still (for a host of reasons) failed to establish itself as a largely recognized comic series. But even then it's not top-notch. Where are my NTSC Region 1 sets of the Takara series? Oh yeah, coming never.