Crisis on Infinite Shells - Page 2

Blade Raider · 06-23-2009, 11:32 AM

This reminds me of a Mario timeline I saw once. The live-action movie was on the timeline and under it, it said "Yes it happened, get over it."

Since many are making vol. 1 & 2 of Mirage canon with multiple timelines (ie Mirage vs. Image) why don't we make 2 movie continuities. TMNT directly contradicts TNM (aka: Where's Venus? Considering it's about family, she would need at least a mention), so they can't be in the same continuity. Other than that, neither directly contradicts the first 3 movies. Therefore...

Movie A: Movies 1, 2, 3, and TNM

Movie B: Movies 1, 2, 3, and TMNT

*Cipher* · 06-23-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blade Raider

Other than that, neither directly contradicts the first 3 movies.

But TNM does contradict the first three movies.

Quote:

Movie A: Movies 1, 2, 3, and TNM

Movie B: Movies 1, 2, 3, and TMNT

More like:

Origin of movie Splinter ----> Movies 1-3 (Maybe 4)
Origin of movie Splinter ----> TNM

I'll admit the fourth movie is debatable as its own continuity. I'd much more readily accept that as its own universe than I would TNM being a part of movie continuity. Because that just makes no sense. The Super Shredder and April things are huge, and no one has provided an explanation for them.

*sdp* · 07-20-2009, 01:20 AM

Well I finally saw TNM and I'm pretty confident that it takes place in the movie continuity. The show was obviously made as a sequel to the movies.

The turtles characterization is basically the same as the movies except more fleshed out. The foot costumes are the same as the movies, this continuity is based more "realistic" like the movies are. Not to mention they live in the subway. They have the same origin instead of the OT one which was what the turtles were known for at the time.

Contradictions are really tame.

Shredder being alive?

Well he died in the first movie too, in fact the death in his first movie is more definite, he falls off a building and then is crushed by a trash compactor. On the second movie only the deck falls on him, and he was super shredder.

Well he's Super Shredder, well maybe the effect wore off or he ate the same donuts.

No April/Casey?

This is no different from no Casey in the second movie that seems to happen just a little bit after the first one. Or no Keno during the third movie.

Besides April makes three cameos as a reporter on TV and both were slated to come out during a second season. Also the turtles had already met humans in this continuity and are more than fine to interact with them, its nothing new for them.

Really those are just nitpicks and the OT and NT and even the comics have their fair share of small plotholes of things that weren't explained in their entirely.

I know most fans are not going to consider it canon because they hate it, but come on theres plenty of evidence and nothing outright contradicts it. Its obvious the show was made as a sequel to the movies.

Heck, make the five parter pilot with a few changes in the script and a higher budget and it could have easily been TMNT IV the movie.

*Andrew NDB* · 07-20-2009, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blade Raider

Movie A: Movies 1, 2, 3, and TNM

Movie B: Movies 1, 2, 3, and TMNT

That's it, exactly. You have a multiple choice continuity... you can either go down a path with movie 1, 2, 3, and then TNM, or go 1, 2, 3, and 4... but you can't do both TNM and 4 in one timeline.

And yes, TNM was obviously made as a continuance of the first three movies. And publically. I remember how Eastman used to talk about how it was the movie TMNT but they were older now, and it would be so much grittier than the movies, that the Turtles would be angrier and such... yeah...

Quote:

And, if I remember correctly, there were plans to actually introduce new versions of the characters in season two, before the show was cancelled.

I remember that being announced. Except I believe you're making up/misremembering the part about "new versions." The announcement was just "Yes, April and Casey will be in Season 2."

*ToTheNines* · 08-01-2009, 08:20 AM

I haven't seen Turtles Forever, but I have listened to some of it and read a good bit of the spoilers. Based on what I've picked up I'd say there's a "mulitiple choice continuity" for the OT too.

87-A: Seasons 1-10

87-B: Seasons 1-7 plus Turtles Forever

I know Zarius' argument was that TF could be after season 10 just because of how loose continuity was in the OT, but I like it better this way.

stayunspoiled · 09-08-2009, 10:19 PM

I think Usagi's Earth should be included also.

That Earth has crossed over many times both on print and video.

Ninja Tiptup · 09-08-2009, 11:50 PM

Alright... I'm going to throw my two cents in on if Next Mutation is in continuity with movie 1-3. It COULD be. But wouldn't Shredder still be Super Shredder? It's possible that he could have returned to normal but I don't think it fits all that well.

TMNT fits with the first 3 movies certainly the first but the other two have cameo nods so it may as well be all 3.

Next Mutation has the subway home yes and it could certainly take place after the first movie regardless. However making it take place after the 2nd is a bit of a stretch because much is left unexplained BUT it could be potentially considered part of that universe.

So the only major contraction is that TMNT and Next Mutation can't be in the same timeline. Everything else is plausible with the theory of Next Mutation being in continuity with movies 1-3 but the question remains how did Shredder get back to normal much less survive his "second death"?

It IS possible that Next Mutation happens after movies 1-3 but asside from Splinter's origin and the Turtles living in the subway there isn't much proof that it IS in continuity with movies beyond TMNT 1 (meaning the events of TMNT II could have played out differently with the turtles still getting their new home in the abandoned subway in some manner but Super Shredder is never created). That is unless there's something in TMNT 3 that relates to the Next Mutation timeline and I honestly don't remember if there was anything like that which was not just a hold over from some of the events that happened in TMNT 1 and 2.

*Cipher* · 09-09-2009, 12:18 AM

Not touching the TNM/Movie connection again. To me, the Super Shredder thing is a game breaker, but if Eastman said, and not just during initial conception, that it was a continuation of the movies then so be it. Or it could happen after the first movie but not the second, etc. All a big mess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I haven't seen Turtles Forever, but I have listened to some of it and read a good bit of the spoilers. Based on what I've picked up I'd say there's a "mulitiple choice continuity" for the OT too.

87-A: Seasons 1-10

87-B: Seasons 1-7 plus Turtles Forever

I know Zarius' argument was that TF could be after season 10 just because of how loose continuity was in the OT, but I like it better this way.

Spoiler:

Headache.

*ToTheNines* · 09-09-2009, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stayunspoiled

I think Usagi's Earth should be included also.

That Earth has crossed over many times both on print and video.

Definitely not... Usagi's world in Mirage is different from his world in the OT and the NT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Tiptup

It IS possible that Next Mutation happens after movies 1-3 but asside from Splinter's origin and the Turtles living in the subway there isn't much proof that it IS in continuity with movies beyond TMNT 1

I say Next Mutation is not in line with the movies. In one episode, Splinter says to Shredder that they've battled thousands of times.

While it obviously takes ideas from the movie, it's not canon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cipher Classic

Spoiler:

So?

Spoiler:

stayunspoiled · 09-10-2009, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Definitely not... Usagi's world in Mirage is different from his world in the OT and the NT.

I meant that Usagi's Earth is an Earth that gets crossed into and should be included.

Maybe we should include two or three different versions of Usagi's Earth - OT NT Mirage???

It's kinda like how DC is included in Marvels list of multipul Earths.

Cerebus the Aardvark should have his Earth included too?

A really good reference is the Marvel Multiverse article on Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse_(Marvel_Comics)

jalexbrown · 09-13-2009, 10:21 AM

As far as TNM being part of the movie timeline, I can bank on it. There are certain continuity errors that aren't explained away, but there's a difference between something not being explained and something not happening. So while Shredder being alive and not being Super-Shredder (and not having Tatsu; nobody mentioned that, to my surprise) is hard to swallow, I can do it with a little imagination. As far as TMNT 2K7 being part of the movie timeline...that's something I can't jive with. For starters, Splinter's ear was intact in the 2K7 movie, which is a very direct contridiction. Also, at what point did they give up the subway home (which they seemed to think was a sweet pad) to go back a regular sewer home? You can't pin it on the foot finding the location, because according to the 2K7 movie, the Turtles thought the foot was done after they killed Shredder. There are props in the 2K7 movie that throw back to the movies, but we can equally assume that those props are alternate universe props and not props that are contained within the continuity of the movies.

That said, there are some things that *could* be ties. In the 2K7 movie, the Turtles thought that they killed Shredder. If the 2K7 movie exists in its own universe (which I have accepted that it does), then there is some unexplained backstory as to the death of the Shredder (which also leads me to wonder why they bothered with the dumb 2K7 story when the alternate universe killing the Shredder story would have been much more interesting). In the 2K7 movies the Turtles already knew April and Casey. That's easy to swallow as a "This takes place in an alternate universe, but we didn't feel it was important to explain how they met" type of deal.

As far as April not being a reporter, I think this could go either way. It would have been more than possible for April to quit being a reporter and start doing the antique thing through some untold backstory, but it's equally possible that April wasn't a reporter to begin with in the 2K7 universe. All things considered, I'd have to consider the 2K7 movie to be part of its own universe, and not part of the original trilogy/TNM.

*Cowabunga Carl* · 09-14-2009, 07:09 AM

After reading the comic prequels to TMNT it is hard to say that it is part 4. In Raph’s issue they are fighting Triceritons and it isn’t the first time they have done so. In Leo’s he is training with the Ancient One and the Tribunal. TMNT seems more like an alternate universe where they drew from everything and didn’t tie it to any one incarnation.

*sdp* · 11-21-2009, 11:23 AM

When I made this thread I always had in my mind some kind of crossover but never thought it'd actually happen, now with Turtles Forever airing and people discussing the Multiverse, I decided to bump it again.

*ToTheNines* · 11-21-2009, 11:37 AM

Cool.

Now that I've seen it, I say Turtles Forever takes place after season 10. You can see a new building where the old Channel 6 used to be, and the new one is about a block over.

And after the final episode, things just went back to the goofy was they were before.

TMNTD · 11-21-2009, 11:52 AM

So what universe of the Tmnt would the COWBOYS OF MOO MESA, THE FLAMING CARROT, CREED, and THE PRE-TEEN DIRTY GENE KUNG FU KANGAROOS fit in ? ( the turtles all made cameos in each one)

*ToTheNines* · 11-21-2009, 12:39 PM

Pretty sure those were all the Mirage turtles.

*sdp* · 11-23-2009, 11:38 PM

Turtles Forever includes a huge multiverse and including small stuff like the dreamwaves comic as a different continuity which I had just placed as part as the 2k3 show here. It also gives them names as Turtles Prime and Turtles 88 which I don't necessarily like but oh well...

06-23-2009, 11:32 AM	#21
Blade Raider Mad Scientist Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,221	This reminds me of a Mario timeline I saw once. The live-action movie was on the timeline and under it, it said "Yes it happened, get over it." Since many are making vol. 1 & 2 of Mirage canon with multiple timelines (ie Mirage vs. Image) why don't we make 2 movie continuities. TMNT directly contradicts TNM (aka: Where's Venus? Considering it's about family, she would need at least a mention), so they can't be in the same continuity. Other than that, neither directly contradicts the first 3 movies. Therefore... Movie A: Movies 1, 2, 3, and TNM Movie B: Movies 1, 2, 3, and TMNT __________________

07-20-2009, 01:20 AM	#23
sdp Detoxed Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Tokio, Italy Posts: 11,192	Well I finally saw TNM and I'm pretty confident that it takes place in the movie continuity. The show was obviously made as a sequel to the movies. The turtles characterization is basically the same as the movies except more fleshed out. The foot costumes are the same as the movies, this continuity is based more "realistic" like the movies are. Not to mention they live in the subway. They have the same origin instead of the OT one which was what the turtles were known for at the time. Contradictions are really tame. Shredder being alive? Well he died in the first movie too, in fact the death in his first movie is more definite, he falls off a building and then is crushed by a trash compactor. On the second movie only the deck falls on him, and he was super shredder. Well he's Super Shredder, well maybe the effect wore off or he ate the same donuts. No April/Casey? This is no different from no Casey in the second movie that seems to happen just a little bit after the first one. Or no Keno during the third movie. Besides April makes three cameos as a reporter on TV and both were slated to come out during a second season. Also the turtles had already met humans in this continuity and are more than fine to interact with them, its nothing new for them. Really those are just nitpicks and the OT and NT and even the comics have their fair share of small plotholes of things that weren't explained in their entirely. I know most fans are not going to consider it canon because they hate it, but come on theres plenty of evidence and nothing outright contradicts it. Its obvious the show was made as a sequel to the movies. Heck, make the five parter pilot with a few changes in the script and a higher budget and it could have easily been TMNT IV the movie. __________________ *Trapt* *urself Page MiscRave!!!* Click to join The Drome Discord server

09-08-2009, 11:50 PM	#27
Ninja Tiptup Mad Scientist Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Washington Posts: 1,451	Alright... I'm going to throw my two cents in on if Next Mutation is in continuity with movie 1-3. It COULD be. But wouldn't Shredder still be Super Shredder? It's possible that he could have returned to normal but I don't think it fits all that well. TMNT fits with the first 3 movies certainly the first but the other two have cameo nods so it may as well be all 3. Next Mutation has the subway home yes and it could certainly take place after the first movie regardless. However making it take place after the 2nd is a bit of a stretch because much is left unexplained BUT it could be potentially considered part of that universe. So the only major contraction is that TMNT and Next Mutation can't be in the same timeline. Everything else is plausible with the theory of Next Mutation being in continuity with movies 1-3 but the question remains how did Shredder get back to normal much less survive his "second death"? It IS possible that Next Mutation happens after movies 1-3 but asside from Splinter's origin and the Turtles living in the subway there isn't much proof that it IS in continuity with movies beyond TMNT 1 (meaning the events of TMNT II could have played out differently with the turtles still getting their new home in the abandoned subway in some manner but Super Shredder is never created). That is unless there's something in TMNT 3 that relates to the Next Mutation timeline and I honestly don't remember if there was anything like that which was not just a hold over from some of the events that happened in TMNT 1 and 2. __________________ It's weird to be normal, and it's normal to be weird.

11-21-2009, 11:23 AM	#33
sdp Detoxed Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Tokio, Italy Posts: 11,192	When I made this thread I always had in my mind some kind of crossover but never thought it'd actually happen, now with Turtles Forever airing and people discussing the Multiverse, I decided to bump it again. __________________ *Trapt* *urself Page MiscRave!!!* Click to join The Drome Discord server

11-23-2009, 11:38 PM	#37
sdp Detoxed Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Tokio, Italy Posts: 11,192	Turtles Forever includes a huge multiverse and including small stuff like the dreamwaves comic as a different continuity which I had just placed as part as the 2k3 show here. It also gives them names as Turtles Prime and Turtles 88 which I don't necessarily like but oh well... __________________ *Trapt* *urself Page MiscRave!!!* Click to join The Drome Discord server

08-01-2009, 08:20 AM	#25
ToTheNines Col. Stinkmeaner Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 19,247	I haven't seen Turtles Forever, but I have listened to some of it and read a good bit of the spoilers. Based on what I've picked up I'd say there's a "mulitiple choice continuity" for the OT too. 87-A: Seasons 1-10 87-B: Seasons 1-7 plus Turtles Forever I know Zarius' argument was that TF could be after season 10 just because of how loose continuity was in the OT, but I like it better this way.

09-08-2009, 10:19 PM	#26
stayunspoiled Thug Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 66	I think Usagi's Earth should be included also. That Earth has crossed over many times both on print and video.

09-13-2009, 10:21 AM	#31
jalexbrown Foot Soldier Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 139	As far as TNM being part of the movie timeline, I can bank on it. There are certain continuity errors that aren't explained away, but there's a difference between something not being explained and something not happening. So while Shredder being alive and not being Super-Shredder (and not having Tatsu; nobody mentioned that, to my surprise) is hard to swallow, I can do it with a little imagination. As far as TMNT 2K7 being part of the movie timeline...that's something I can't jive with. For starters, Splinter's ear was intact in the 2K7 movie, which is a very direct contridiction. Also, at what point did they give up the subway home (which they seemed to think was a sweet pad) to go back a regular sewer home? You can't pin it on the foot finding the location, because according to the 2K7 movie, the Turtles thought the foot was done after they killed Shredder. There are props in the 2K7 movie that throw back to the movies, but we can equally assume that those props are alternate universe props and not props that are contained within the continuity of the movies. That said, there are some things that could be ties. In the 2K7 movie, the Turtles thought that they killed Shredder. If the 2K7 movie exists in its own universe (which I have accepted that it does), then there is some unexplained backstory as to the death of the Shredder (which also leads me to wonder why they bothered with the dumb 2K7 story when the alternate universe killing the Shredder story would have been much more interesting). In the 2K7 movies the Turtles already knew April and Casey. That's easy to swallow as a "This takes place in an alternate universe, but we didn't feel it was important to explain how they met" type of deal. As far as April not being a reporter, I think this could go either way. It would have been more than possible for April to quit being a reporter and start doing the antique thing through some untold backstory, but it's equally possible that April wasn't a reporter to begin with in the 2K7 universe. All things considered, I'd have to consider the 2K7 movie to be part of its own universe, and not part of the original trilogy/TNM.

09-14-2009, 07:09 AM	#32
Cowabunga Carl Mad Scientist Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 2,384	After reading the comic prequels to TMNT it is hard to say that it is part 4. In Raph’s issue they are fighting Triceritons and it isn’t the first time they have done so. In Leo’s he is training with the Ancient One and the Tribunal. TMNT seems more like an alternate universe where they drew from everything and didn’t tie it to any one incarnation.

11-21-2009, 11:37 AM	#34
ToTheNines Col. Stinkmeaner Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 19,247	Cool. Now that I've seen it, I say Turtles Forever takes place after season 10. You can see a new building where the old Channel 6 used to be, and the new one is about a block over. And after the final episode, things just went back to the goofy was they were before.

11-21-2009, 11:52 AM	#35
TMNTD Foot Soldier Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Montgomery, AL Posts: 109	So what universe of the Tmnt would the COWBOYS OF MOO MESA, THE FLAMING CARROT, CREED, and THE PRE-TEEN DIRTY GENE KUNG FU KANGAROOS fit in ? ( the turtles all made cameos in each one)

11-21-2009, 12:39 PM	#36
ToTheNines Col. Stinkmeaner Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 19,247	Pretty sure those were all the Mirage turtles.