What is your LEAST favorite comic art/story from TMNT volume ONE?

[CyberCubed]

It's a shame Kevin/Peter allowed Volume 1 to get derailed by ridiculous non-canon stories. I can only imagine how it must have been for those original comic fans, going from Return to New York to Mark Martin's silly "Fanny wacker" parody comics.

I was too young to follow Volume 1 as it came out, as I imagine most people here were too, but can you just imagine how it must have been for those very original Mirage fans in the 80's?

No wonder they dropped the book, the series literally had no direction after RTNY all the way until City at War, which wouldn't happen for literally years later.

[Venom]

^ I think of the early comic fans as sort of a "lost civilization" archetype in that they left the series due to various reasons like the toon, never to be heard from again.

I actually posted on CBR once asking some of the older folks there how they regarded the TMNT and while most reflected positively on the comics, the one thing most agreed was that once the cartoon hit the indie comic community felt Kevin and Peter sold out and sort of lost interest after that.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

It's a shame Kevin/Peter allowed Volume 1 to get derailed by ridiculous non-canon stories. I can only imagine how it must have been for those original comic fans, going from Return to New York to Mark Martin's silly "Fanny wacker" parody comics.

Unconscionable.

I was too young to follow Volume 1 as it came out, as I imagine most people here were too, but can you just imagine how it must have been for those very original Mirage fans in the 80's? No wonder they dropped the book, the series literally had no direction after RTNY all the way until City at War, which wouldn't happen for literally years later.

Yeah, it's very hard to fault the exodus of Mirage fans between Return to New York and City at War. For shame.

But both Peter and Kevin have owned that they let things "lapse" too much, getting caught up in trying to run the McTMNT™ when things exploded, and have apologized... all that can be said has been said about it all, really.

[DrSpengler]

It's funny, I was reviewing TMNT #19 today and was thinking about the pacing of Volume 1.

If you take away all the non-canon guest stories and only include what Laird considers canon, you get a really solid, well-paced book with a very focused storyline. Looking at it even closer, there's a great method to how the Foot-centric "event" arcs are interspersed along the narrative.

You'll get a Foot arc, then several one-shot adventures or two-parters that maybe revolve around a theme, then the overarching plot will come to a head with a major Foot story, then repeat until "City at War" carves an epic conclusion.

And the oneshot stories all serve a purpose, be it introducing and involving recurring characters like Renet, Leatherhead and Radical, or just creating a necessary narrative break like the whole Northampton exile era (which was important for "Return to New York" to have the necessary impact).

As a 40-issue series, it's really, really great. But as a 62-issue series...?

The guest era was pretty much just a badly failed experiment that I can on some level appreciate in retrospect (trying to do something fresh and different and get a lot of indie creators' names out there), but my god, it's distracting and confusing for readers twenty years later and I can only imagine how infuriating it was for readers when it was happening.

[CyberCubed]

It was really only the "wacky" guest writer issues that tended to be terrible.

All the other stories were generally well received. In fact out of Volume 1 I only would have eliminated about 8 issues and kept the rest.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

The guest era was pretty much just a badly failed experiment that I can on some level appreciate in retrospect (trying to do something fresh and different and get a lot of indie creators' names out there), but my god, it's distracting and confusing for readers twenty years later and I can only imagine how infuriating it was for readers when it was happening.

Totally. I get pissed off waiting a month between the IDW series issues (Thank God for the Micro series lol). I couldn't imagine having to put up with months and months of some IDW asshole's take on the Turtles while Tom sat around doing nothing until finally putting out something pertaining to the actual storyline.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

It was really only the "wacky" guest writer issues that tended to be terrible.

Very true. In fact, more often than not the guest issues were actually pretty good.

Let's break it down, in fact (the ones with neither any Kevin or Peter involved)...

Win -- TMNT #13, by Michael Dooney. Not goofy, just a standalone tale with Donatello becoming wrapped up in an intergalactic heiress' plight against her people's would-be matriarch. I dug it.

Lose -- TMNT #16, by Mark Martin. Wackiness ensues.

Lose -- TMNT #22, by Mark Martin.

Lose -- TMNT #23, by Mark Martin.

Win -- TMNT #24, by Rick Veitch. River part 1. Wonderful.

Win -- TMNT #25, by Rick Veitch. River part 2.

Win -- TMNT #26, by Rick Veitch. River part 3. Soulful end to a pretty spiritual trilogy with some real balls.

Win -- TMNT #27, by Michael Dooney. Radical vs. Carnage, round 2. I'm not huge into either character but I dug the payoff here from their earlier appearance in Tales.

Win -- TMNT #28, by Steve Murphy. Sons of the Silent Age. Classic. Pure classic, no other issue in the whole series better underscores the Turtles' place in the world than this issue (though a good case could be argued for #11, or maybe #62).

Win -- TMNT #29, by AC Farley. TMNT vs. Vampires. A.C. Farley. What's not to like?

Win -- TMNT #30, by Rick Veitch. The Sky Highway one shot. Not great but I dug it, mostly. Memorable visuals at least and Veitch is an excellent storyteller.

Win -- TMNT #31, by Michael Zulli. 1 of 3. Everyone raves about the Zulli material and I too love it, though I think a disservice was done by not making it its own mini and interrupting the core book. Still, it's an amazing read.

Win -- TMNT #33, by Jan Strnad/Richard Corben. A little bit random but Corben on Turtles was pretty cool to see. I dug it.

Lose -- TMNT #34, by Hedden/McWeeney. Probably the most tolerable of their tales but no less awful.

Win -- TMNT #35, by Michael Zulli. 2 of 3.

Win -- TMNT #36, by Michael Zulli. 3 of 3.

Win -- TMNT #37, by Rick McCollum. Twilight of the Ring, continued from a Turtle Soup tale. Brilliant, just brilliant. Another classic.

Lose -- TMNT #38, by Hedden/McWeeney. God-awful. The less said about this the better.

Lose -- TMNT #39, by Hedden/McWeeney.

Lose -- TMNT #40, by Hedden/McWeeney. I can't believe these guys were given a whole quarter of 1991 to drop this kind of stuff in the comics. And this was when TMNT popularity was at its peak in the mass media... for shame.

Lose -- TMNT #41, by Matt Howarth. Not particularly terrible, just much ado about nothing.

Win -- TMNT #42, by Rick McCollum. The Savanti Juliet tale. I love this.

Win -- TMNT #43, by Paul Jenkins/A.C. Farley. Absolutely brilliant and an unforgettable TMNT classic. If you have not read this tale you need to turn in your TMNT "hardcore" fan card.

Win -- TMNT #44, by Rick Arthur. I could go either way on this one, but I enjoyed it. Like the Twilight of the Ring issue, it stems from a short in Turtle Soup.

Win -- TMNT #45, by Dan Berger. What's not to love? And there's Leatherhead.

Win -- TMNT #46, by Michael Dooney. Savanti and time travel. Feudal Japan. Foot origins. Cool stuff.

Win -- TMNT #47, by Michael Dooney.

And that brings us to "City at War" and the conclusion of Vol. 1. 8 stinkers beside 19 "wins" isn't a horrible batting average for the "indy era," though that's still a lot of stink and time wasted when you think about it.

Still, the main problem -- and this is the same problem that Tales Volume 2 had -- is that even when the guest/indy issues were really good, you never at any point got any hint that there was any kind of progressing arc for the Turtles beyond the curtain... it just seemed like you were reading about random "day in the life" kind of fare. Which wasn't the fault of any of the indy/guest writers at all... it just means that there was no man behind the curtain whatsoever during those days.

[CyberCubed]

Yeah, but it also made sense that there was a huge gap in Foot storylines. After RTNY, I LIKED that the Turtles got engaged in other adventures that didn't have anything to do with Foot Clan members for a while. It would have been more repetitive to go from Foot story to Foot story.

Sure most of these are just one-shot stories that don't continue to anything really, but there's no harm in that.

[AquaParade]

This thread just makes me realize how spectacular Volume 1 is, overall. Rick Veitchs beautiful, surreal issues hold a special place in my heart and City at War/Shades of Gray is easily my favorite tmnt story. Souls Winter completely and wonderfully proves how versatile the turtles are, Hall of Lost Legends is a freakin classic, and the first twelve issues or so aren't too shabby either!

Still the peak of the franchise, in my opinion.

[Plasticplayhouse]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

Hall of Lost Legends is a freakin classic

there is a lot of love for this issue, but to be honest from what i can remember, i want overly impressed with it. the art i loved, its the story i didnt really care for. i'll have to read it again. it's been about 15 years or so since i last read it. maybe i missed something.

anyone care to share why they loved this particular stoyr so much?

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Plasticplayhouse

there is a lot of love for this issue, but to be honest from what i can remember, i want overly impressed with it. the art i loved, its the story i didnt really care for. i'll have to read it again. it's been about 15 years or so since i last read it. maybe i missed something.

anyone care to share why they loved this particular stoyr so much?

Don't blame you, dude! I had to go back and re-read it a couple times before I truly loved it. For me, it's all in the last page. When the story clicks at the end, the issue truly becomes great. The fairy-tale/urban myth feel of the story combined with Farley's fairytale like turtle designs make for a really special book.

[Plasticplayhouse]

Ahhh ok. I'll keep that in mind when I reread it

[Donnie]

Hedden/McWeeney's issues are the most god-awful thing to ever grace TMNT comics. This thread is testament to that, but I don't think we even needed this thread to tell us that fact.

[CyberCubed]

There were a lot of terrible specials produced during the Volume 1 era.

"The Maltease Turtle" (also by Hedden/Mcweeny), "The Times Pipeline" special, and "TMNT: The Haunted Pizza."

All guest writer issues that probably would have been part of Vol. 1 but were released as specials instead.

[Floatingyeti]

Anyone else dreading the inclusion of the martin and hedden/mcweeney issues in the Ultimate TMNT volumes? In my opinion it would truly be and Ultimate Collection by cutting out the crap and making the series more cohesive.

the parody issues and later specials should be collected in its own volume outside of the Ultimate Collection

People will hate me for this but ive never liked the Donatello oneshot. I appreciate the message behind the story and the homage to Kirby but i always thought it was overly goofy and clashed with the earlier issues of volume one. of course tales firmly made that story canon so i have to live with it.

[Plasticplayhouse]

Originally Posted by Floatingyeti

Anyone else dreading the inclusion of the martin and hedden/mcweeney issues in the Ultimate TMNT volumes? In my opinion it would truly be and Ultimate Collection by cutting out the crap and making the series more cohesive.

the parody issues and later specials should be collected in its own volume outside of the Ultimate Collection

That's actually a good idea. I don't believe martin/howarth/mcweeny's books were bad, in fact I believe they were very good in their own right...just not along the lines as the more traditional canon/canonesque issues. I think they fall more in line with the turtle soup or even Archie issues.

[CyberCubed]

They don't fall in line with the Archie series. The Archie series was never borderline retarded.

Even the worst Archie stories, "The MayEast Saga" or "TMNT Meet the Conservation Corps" were more "boring" than "retarded."

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Floatingyeti

Anyone else dreading the inclusion of the martin and hedden/mcweeney issues in the Ultimate TMNT volumes? In my opinion it would truly be and Ultimate Collection by cutting out the crap and making the series more cohesive.

the parody issues and later specials should be collected in its own volume outside of the Ultimate Collection

The majority of them really wouldn't be worth the cost of paper for IDW to print them.

People will hate me for this but ive never liked the Donatello oneshot. I appreciate the message behind the story and the homage to Kirby but i always thought it was overly goofy and clashed with the earlier issues of volume one. of course tales firmly made that story canon so i have to live with it.

If it makes you feel better, I do feel it's the weakest of the four original microseries. While I do find it fun and an enjoyable ready (moreso as I read it now), it still feels more like a Jack Kirby tribute/"we really, really, really love Jack Kirby and now we're gonna prove it" piece than a great Turtles story.

[DrSpengler]

I always found Eastman and Laird's devotion to Jack Kirby rather humorous, particularly considering the way they sicked their lawyers on their freelancers in order to gather up as many of the rights to their stories and art as they could.

The fellating of Jack Kirby in Donatello #1 is really the only thing I've found irksome about it over the years; I don't really have any other bones to pick with it.

Actuall, Michaelangelo #1 is my least favorite of the original microseries. Don't hate it or anything, it just doesn't do anything for me and I really can't stand saccharine Christmas stories (though it earns points for introducing Klunk, I'll give it that).

[Fugitoid Jones]

Originally Posted by Floatingyeti

People will hate me for this but ive never liked the Donatello oneshot. I appreciate the message behind the story and the homage to Kirby but i always thought it was overly goofy and clashed with the earlier issues of volume one. of course tales firmly made that story canon so i have to live with it.

The only complaint about that issue that i have is the ramifications it had on April in Vol. 4. Don't get me started on that crap.

And speaking of crap, my least favorite issues of vol. 1 would have to be the "Sky Highway" and all of the Hedden/McWeeney issues (tho strangely I loved their Archie Summer Special).