Watching through the OT completely for the first time

[Herald7]

Originally Posted by themaxonline

Believe you me. It's not due to me being lazy. I'd love to ramble on and on about my thoughts on the turtles...! And on and on. Shall I accept the challenge?

I'd like to hear!

[themaxonline]

Originally Posted by Herald7

I'd like to hear!

Ok, hmmmm, well, most of my thoughts tend to be random and often based on my original thoughts when the show aired back in the 80s/90s.

I just watched the Nutrienos episode from Season 2 which almost plays out like a season 3 episode because of how silly it seems to be with Shredder whining and such. One of the big flaws from this one I noticed was when Kala asked April "who are you?" She's not THAT memorable, Kala, you met her last season!
Also, I've been noticing more this time around that Donatello's wristband seems to be missing more consistently throughout much of the episodes of season 2. I used to only notice it in Return of the Technodrome but now I've seen it in a few other episodes. And it's only him.

I've also come to realization that I'm not as fond of Season 2 as I used to be. I think it might be because I've seen it so many times that the stories kind of run thin. I can't really pick out my favourite episode from the season other than Return of the Technodrome but I was always fond of the final episode in the Eye of Zarnoth arc. I never cared much for Case of the Killer Pizzas and even though it's one of the few episodes where April is wearing something different, and we see her and Irma socializing like regular women, New York's Shiniest is another one I never cared for.
As I said before, I'm looking forward to getting to season 3 beyond the first episode (Beneath These Streets I always found ran a bit slow) mostly due to nostalgia although a lot of what I call the ASN episodes I don't care for anymore.


Before I end this post, I'll explain my ASN episodes even though I have likely mentioned it before.
When I was younger, I was able to catch the turtles on 3 different stations. ASN (from the east coast of Canada), YTV (also canadian) and CBS. The episodes I saw ranged greatly between the three stations.

ASN aired the turtles every weekday. They aired all of season 1, most of season 2 (with the exception of Return of the Shredder and the Zarnoth episodes), a portion of season 3 (everything up to Attack of the Big MACC except Turtles at the Earth's Core and April's Fool and then the Big Break In and The Big Blow Out) and all of the season 4 CBS episodes.
In the last year, they added on all of season 5 minus the Hokum Hare episodes.
So those were the episodes I saw the most and they ran a full cycle about every 3 months as they only had about 50 or so episodes in total (until they added season 5). Being a dedicated turtle fan, I still watched them daily.

YTV aired all of seasons 1-4. YTV was my only source for most of season 3, the first 13 episodes from season 4 and the first 5 episodes from season 2. When I first started watching the turtles, YTV aired them daily but eventually dropped down to Saturday and Sunday and finally just Saturday. So seeing those rarely seen episodes for me was a treat.

CBS always aired the later episodes for me. I think it took me a while to even notice that CBS aired the Turtles on Saturday morning but I remember them being very different. Darker in tone compared to the other episodes. They aired all of seasons 6 and 7 (at this time the final 3 seasons weren't out yet) as well as a select few episodes from seasons 4 and 5 such as Son of Return of the Fly II, The Big Cufflink Caper, Slash, and Donatello's Duplicate, among a few others but there were some that I never saw them air. It's also odd that most of season 5 I only ever saw on ASN and not CBS.

It occurs to me that it's incredibly odd why ASN only had the episodes they had and why CBS avoided the season 4 episodes that they did. But either way, I do still associate most of the episodes with the network that I saw them on and thus the frequency with which I saw them. Therefore, I do tend to favour the middle portion of season 3, for example, over the first dozen or so episodes from it.


I think I gradually stopped watching in 1994 so during season 8. I didn't see most of seasons 9 or any of 10 until I downloaded all of the episodes in university during my first year ten years ago. Things were getting a bit too strange for me by that point. Too many changes plus I just simply grew out of them. All in all, I think my fandom as a child only ranged from maybe 1991 until early 1994. It's weird because it really does feel a lot longer.

Anyway... I apologize for rambling if you're even still reading. And if so, thanks. These are just some of the thoughts I have while watching them. I'm also kind of glad now as I rewatch them that this time I'm watching them by myself. Some of the things in the show, one-liners and such, are incredibly cheesy that I don't think a lot of people I know can appreciate them the way I can.

[Herald7]

Originally Posted by themaxonline

but I was always fond of the final episode in the Eye of Zarnoth arc.

Absolutely, that was a true highlight of the series. I think I even rented the Incredible Shrinking Turtles VHS it from the library as a kid. I used to watch it with my turtle com toy I got from Burger King and pretend the turtles were watching with me, lol.

[sdp]

Finished with the European vacation episodes and apparently the worst the series has to offer, but I really don't think it's that bad. Sure a lot of episodes are lackluster but the whole fact that they weren't in NY made the episodes much more special. Continuity is a bit weird, the first episode starts by re-telling the events from the previous episode but with some retcons like the prize including 5 tickets instead of 4, some other continuity problems are Shredder isn't shocked to see the turtles in the first episode in France but is in the second. I guess the episodes could've happened concurrently? And maybe they realized they had one more ticket a few seconds later?

I wish they had put more effort in explaining why Shredder/Krang/April kept being at the same place as the turtles, instead of explaining every episode as pure coincidence something much simpler could've been mentioned in the beginning like April is going on tour and the turtles want to follow her or she's part of the tour or something, and have Shredder/Krang want something the turtles have or some reason to have them follow them. Some sort of story arc could've easily been sneaked into the episodes to make them flow better, especially since this was a "sideseason" why couldn't they add some continuity...A finale for the season would've also been greatly appreciated.

I'm really curious as to why this sideseason was made, it seems pretty clear there was some sort of reason. It almost borderlines as Edutainment, trying to teach you about European culture, though not really enough for me to think it's the reason they made it. It just seems random, not to mention it would also explain why Shredder/Krang were in so many of them, the ones who wanted this season to be produced wanted the main villains in most episodes. Odd in the age of the internet we don't really know why this was made. I actually really enjoyed some episodes quite a bit, I loved the whole fact that this was in Europe and made this feel more epic than it should be. I really enjoyed artless, the atlantis episode, the thor episode and the first two Paris episodes.

Now onto Season 4, which apparently also has some of the worst the series has to offer, I've seen it and I remember liking it for the most part, can't wait to get to the later seasons though. I know the red sky seasons are liked for the most part and 7 is one of the most liked as well and apparently 5/6 aren't bad either.

[Redeemer]

U know whats sad My favorite game is based off this part of the series

TMNT 3 Manhatten project baby

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by sdp

Finished with the European vacation episodes and apparently the worst the series has to offer, but I really don't think it's that bad. Sure a lot of episodes are lackluster but the whole fact that they weren't in NY made the episodes much more special. Continuity is a bit weird, the first episode starts by re-telling the events from the previous episode but with some retcons like the prize including 5 tickets instead of 4, some other continuity problems are Shredder isn't shocked to see the turtles in the first episode in France but is in the second. I guess the episodes could've happened concurrently? And maybe they realized they had one more ticket a few seconds later?

I wish they had put more effort in explaining why Shredder/Krang/April kept being at the same place as the turtles, instead of explaining every episode as pure coincidence something much simpler could've been mentioned in the beginning like April is going on tour and the turtles want to follow her or she's part of the tour or something, and have Shredder/Krang want something the turtles have or some reason to have them follow them. Some sort of story arc could've easily been sneaked into the episodes to make them flow better, especially since this was a "sideseason" why couldn't they add some continuity...A finale for the season would've also been greatly appreciated.

I'm really curious as to why this sideseason was made, it seems pretty clear there was some sort of reason. It almost borderlines as Edutainment, trying to teach you about European culture, though not really enough for me to think it's the reason they made it. It just seems random, not to mention it would also explain why Shredder/Krang were in so many of them, the ones who wanted this season to be produced wanted the main villains in most episodes. Odd in the age of the internet we don't really know why this was made. I actually really enjoyed some episodes quite a bit, I loved the whole fact that this was in Europe and made this feel more epic than it should be. I really enjoyed artless, the atlantis episode, the thor episode and the first two Paris episodes.

Now onto Season 4, which apparently also has some of the worst the series has to offer, I've seen it and I remember liking it for the most part, can't wait to get to the later seasons though. I know the red sky seasons are liked for the most part and 7 is one of the most liked as well and apparently 5/6 aren't bad either.

Shredder was such a popular bad guy that they wanted to keep him in most episodes. I agree they should more face other bad guys in Europe. And they should show more of Germany and Eastern Europe. Set in the early 1990's, visiting such places would be living history. Berlin is maybe the town that symbolizes 20th century history more than any other.

[Hermano Dyvas]

Originally Posted by sdp

Continuity is a bit weird, the first episode starts by re-telling the events from the previous episode but with some retcons like the prize including 5 tickets instead of 4

Where do you get this idea from? In "plan six from outer space" Mike reads his winning letter out loud saying something like "you've won a trip for you and 4 amigo's...". 4 + himself = 5.

Originally Posted by sdp

some other continuity problems are Shredder isn't shocked to see the turtles in the first episode in France but is in the second. I guess the episodes could've happened concurrently? And maybe they realized they had one more ticket a few seconds later?

Yeah, true. I guess it could be explained by them visiting Paris twice and some others take place between these 2.

I always put all the episodes in which Vernon appears first having the Atlantis one as the last. Then Vernon dissapears because April is back in New york too in that second Paris episode. She returns to Europe alone for a while, then after that there's the episode in Venice where April's still alone in France and Burne sends Irma over who sticks around with April for a few episodes again. After all these episodes are done there's only one left which is the one in Norway, so I tend to stick that last.

Yeah I put way too much thought in these episodes.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Check out this:

*Tower of Power = France (west)
*Rust Never Sleeps = France (west)
*A Real Snow Job = Austria (central)
*Venice on the Half-Shell = Italy (south)
*Artless = Italy (south)
*Ring of Fire = Portugal (south)
*The Irish Jig is Up = Republic of Ireland (west)
*Shredder's New Sword = UK (west)
*The Lost Queen of Atlantis = Greece (south)
*Turtles on the Orient Express = France, ending up in Turkey (west-east)
*April Gets in Dutch = Netherlands (west)
*Northern Lights Out = Norway (north)
*Elementary, My Dear Turtle = UK (west)

Instead of travel Europe from west to east. I would see them arriving to the UK, then some train could take April, Irma and Vernon across Continental Europe in a West-East direction. while the TMNT and Splinter sneak on the train to the goods wagon. Shredder, Bebop and Rocksteady would follow them.

As a kid I made up some own TMT stories like these, which took them across the Earth. They travelled by boat, train and aeroplane, as April, Irma and Vernon were travelling as April took a job as Channel 6 foreign correspondent, and April and Vernon assisted her. This is how I recall:

*North America-Europe-Africa-Asia-Oceania-South America-North America.

Not all countries were visited, of course (but I liked geography as a kid). Of course, Shredder, Bebop and Rocksteady were following them.

[gobo]

Tower of Power was first and immediately after Plan Six. That much is undeniable.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by gobo

Tower of Power was first and immediately after Plan Six. That much is undeniable.

Tower of Power is first, but you can date the European episodes anywhere between "Plan 6 from Outer Space" and "My Brother, the Bad Guy".

[Killer Moth]

This thread would definitely apply to me, as I've just acquired Seasons 1-2 and 7-8 on DVD. While I still had access to Seasons 1-2, via FHE's videotapes, the DVDs are the first time I've seen Seasons 7-8 in their entirety. I already saw Season 1 on YouTube, recently, which inspired me to purchase the DVDs. Certainly the best way to start, as the original mini-series would be my favorite part of the whole series, for obvious reasons.

Season 2 particularly impressed me with its treatment of Shredder. As I had said in the Shredder thread, Season 2 forced him to fend for himself and be creative or less intellectually lazy with his villainy. Unlike future seasons, where he'd have to share the spotlight with Krang, Season 2 was his show, so to speak.

I was also impressed with the building-up of Irma throughout the season, sometimes a minor cameo ("Enter: The Fly") to a semi-major role ("Case of The Killer Pizzas") and never wearing out her welcome too much. Which lead to "Catwoman from Channel Six," where she would soon be promoted to protagonist. Technically, the Turtles probably would have figured out April's problem without Irma, yet her transforming in front of Irma lead to Irma interacting with the Turtles and gave a personal urgency in "April's world." And maybe foreshadowing her future badass ness, as she handled the April transformation better than most might have. When I was younger, I didn't think much of Irma. Seeing Season 2 as an adult, I definitely can't see the series without her.

Also, I was surprised with the robbery fight scene in "Mean Machines," as per actual guns and bullets. I know the toning down of the violence was already underway, yet not completely. Try to imagine a gun battle in Season 3 or anything like that in the CBS seasons, so. Same with the occult aspects in "Splinter No More" with an actual pentagram. (After viewing 4Kids' removal of such in the past decade with their Yu-Gi-Oh programs, I was actually surprised to see one. Heh.)

My only real complaint, beyond the occasional bad episode ("Teenagers from Dimension X") or weird scenes (Krang out of the shower, anyone?) would be the lower-budget animation, except that's a given and the entire season was all done with only one animation team. Fortunately, they didn't cheap it out with "Fly," being a major status quo changing episode (and the only time early in the series that it became actually serious) tends to do that. I eventually accepted the cheap or off-model animation, except "Return of the Technodrome." The season finale, and an epic one at that, should have better animation, quite frankly.

I'm picking Season 2, because I never realized how much it would influence the franchise (Baxter's characterization and mutation, Cat! April, Irma's gradual role, The Eye of Sarnath/Zarnov being expanded in TMNT Adventures, Splinter accepting his new life and other side issues). There are more Season 2 observations, but I wanted to start it off in a summation way.

I'll discuss Season 7 in my next post, as that would be my second favorite. (In case anyone wonders, Season 2 would be third for me). Either way, it's quite the eye-opener. I'm glad I waited, as to put the show and its often non-serious ness in a proper perspective. Compared to current times, I actually like or don't mind whimsy far more than I originally thought. (Or my standards are getting lower and lower -- there's always that possibility, as well. Heh.)

[oldmanwinters]

Yeah, Season 2 was pretty special for expanding the Turtle-verse, even if the animation wasn't always especially crisp or the character models/backgrounds consistent.

[Killer Moth]

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

Yeah, Season 2 was pretty special for expanding the Turtle-verse, even if the animation wasn't always especially crisp or the character models/backgrounds consistent.

Indeed. The only times it bothered me involved Splinter No More and Return of the Technodrome. I think after watching anime for a while, I've become too used to lower-budget animation. Which is why I liked Mean Machines and Fly's animation more than I should, being more detailed and expressive.

And there are also certain episodes where I am mixed, like Case of the Killer Pizzas. It hasn't aged as well as I thought or it's too lighthearted for me, yet it is quite useful as a breather episode. Being between the action-heavy Curse of the Evil Eye and the hyper-serious (and depressing) Fly certainly helps. Three back-to-back intense episodes would have been too much, or anything right before the death-themed Fly episode had to be light in some way.

On the other hand, other episodes have aged much better to me, like A Thing About Rats, which was the breather in Season 1. It was a good showcase for Shredder, the subtlety of Krang secretly foiling Shredder's plan for his own reasons and the short-and-sweet Mike/Shredder showdown.

It has one of my favorite exchanges in the series:

Shredder (shooting up the place after Mike tricked him in destroying the Mouser control): Oh, no! You'll pay for that!

Mike: Will you take an I.O.U.?

So awesome.

[CyberCubed]

Definitely pick up Season 3. Its split across about 4 volumes though.

Season 6 is a really fun season. Its not as good as Season 7 but there's a lot of fun and enjoyable episodes in it. Seasons 8-10 are also fairly good and when the show tries to go darker.

Likewise Season 4 and 5 have some really great episodes but there's also a lot of filler there. Both are worth picking up simply because of the better episodes.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I just want to say, Season 2 rocks! I have always loved it, and the "Eye of Sarnath" (except for the silly "Curse of the Evil Eye"). I especially love "It Came from Beneath the Sewers" because the dark sewer dwelling, and how the story is built up (TMNT at tivoli, alien giant plant in the swers, April and Irma socializing, Shredder kidnapping April, giant plant on the street and finally Splinter's knowledge of the sewers. The entire undertone feels Mirage dark).

[Killer Moth]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Definitely pick up Season 3. Its split across about 4 volumes though.

Season 6 is a really fun season. Its not as good as Season 7 but there's a lot of fun and enjoyable episodes in it. Seasons 8-10 are also fairly good and when the show tries to go darker.

Likewise Season 4 and 5 have some really great episodes but there's also a lot of filler there. Both are worth picking up simply because of the better episodes.

I wished Lions Gates did what they did with Season 7 -- eventually get a big collected set and correct their past mistake. Why didn't they with Season 3, who knows?

Yes about Season 7, as if it wasn't for the original mini-series and its sheer badass ness, Season 7 would be my favorite. I wish Avery had stayed to close out his role, however, he did voice in "Legend of Koji." "Koji" was an excellent Shredder-specific episode, and a good way to end his stint on a high note. (I know he did a few more, yet "Koji" served as a good finale for Avery, since he couldn't do 'Shredder Triumphant,' sadly.)

I'll say about Season 8 for another post, as it was quite the eye-opener for me.

Another facet I noticed with the syndicated season finales, they had a more series finale flow to them. In that, the Technodrome ended being potentially destroyed, be it dunked in the Earth's core or blasted in Dimension X. Then with Plan 6, the latter got retconned, which makes sense if you saw "Big Blow Out" as a series finale. Either way, evil got punished, or more than the CBS season finales until Season 7.

Duly noted about the rest. Thanks.

In regards to "It Came from Beneath the Sewers," as Swedenfan mentioned, I actually didn't like it as much as I did when younger. I think it was more the carvinal scene, the bratty kids and Mike's weird crossdressing that bugged me, here and there. Yet, I can't ignore the "firsts," like the first official April kidnapping plot, etc. Ironically, I now love "Curse of the Evil Eye," I liked Blodgett, I really liked his cat -- why can't my cats act like Mortimer -- and it proved that Human! Baxter can be an actual badass.

And then, there is "'Enter: The Fly," which was able to be serious without sacificing the series' emerging quirks. And then, I'm immediately depressed about Baxter and all the implications, yet that's a rant for another time.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Killer Moth

I wished Lions Gates did what they did with Season 7 -- eventually get a big collected set and correct their past mistake. Why didn't they with Season 3, who knows?

Yes about Season 7, as if it wasn't for the original mini-series and its sheer badass ness, Season 7 would be my favorite. I wish Avery had stayed to close out his role, however, he did voice in "Legend of Koji." "Koji" was an excellent Shredder-specific episode, and a good way to end his stint on a high note. (I know he did a few more, yet "Koji" served as a good finale for Avery, since he couldn't do 'Shredder Triumphant,' sadly.)

I'll say about Season 8 for another post, as it was quite the eye-opener for me.

Another facet I noticed with the syndicated season finales, they had a more series finale flow to them. In that, the Technodrome ended being potentially destroyed, be it dunked in the Earth's core or blasted in Dimension X. Then with Plan 6, the latter got retconned, which makes sense if you saw "Big Blow Out" as a series finale. Either way, evil got punished, or more than the CBS season finales until Season 7.

Duly noted about the rest. Thanks.

In regards to "It Came from Beneath the Sewers," as Swedenfan mentioned, I actually didn't like it as much as I did when younger. I think it was more the carvinal scene, the bratty kids and Mike's weird crossdressing that bugged me, here and there. Yet, I can't ignore the "firsts," like the first official April kidnapping plot, etc. Ironically, I now love "Curse of the Evil Eye," I liked Blodgett, I really liked his cat -- why can't my cats act like Mortimer -- and it proved that Human! Baxter can be an actual badass.

And then, there is "'Enter: The Fly," which was able to be serious without sacificing the series' emerging quirks. And then, I'm immediately depressed about Baxter and all the implications, yet that's a rant for another time.

April is kidnapped already in "Turtle Tracks". And "Shredder Triumphant" rocks, because of the bad-ass Irma.

[Killer Moth]

Originally Posted by Swedenfan 1982

April is kidnapped already in "Turtle Tracks". And "Shredder Triumphant" rocks, because of the bad-ass Irma.

Oh, snap, you're right. Although, does it totally count if he didn't personally do the kidnapping? (After all, the Foot Soldiers did the work in Tracks.) Just wondering about the semantics.

I do agree about Irma's role in Shredder Triumphant. I wasn't crazy about the Rambo impression when I was younger, yet I find it charming as an adult. It proved to be a good swansong for the character, especially as she all but disappeared soon after. (Two lines in State of Shock and the occasional cameo, and that's it.) It's a shame, but, hey, at least, I have the fun visual of her shooting Krang in the back.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Killer Moth

Oh, snap, you're right. Although, does it totally count if he didn't personally do the kidnapping? (After all, the Foot Soldiers did the work in Tracks.) Just wondering about the semantics.

I do agree about Irma's role in Shredder Triumphant. I wasn't crazy about the Rambo impression when I was younger, yet I find it charming as an adult. It proved to be a good swansong for the character, especially as she all but disappeared soon after. (Two lines in State of Shock and the occasional cameo, and that's it.) It's a shame, but, hey, at least, I have the fun visual of her shooting Krang in the back.

Channel 6 was phased out from season 8. Shredder blowing up the building rocks. I wish Irma was fired too for hanging out with the TMNT, so she could be some camera assistant for April when April was a freelance reporter during later seasons.

[Killer Moth]

Originally Posted by Swedenfan 1982

Channel 6 was phased out from season 8. Shredder blowing up the building rocks. I wish Irma was fired too for hanging out with the TMNT, so she could be some camera assistant for April when April was a freelance reporter during later seasons.

Indeed, as she should have been around in some form. Burne and Vernon, at least, had the H.A.V.O.C. arc to maintain relevance.

I guess this is a good time to wax some initial thoughts about Season 8, as until the DVD, I only saw "Get Shredder!" when I was younger. An 8 episode season is both good and bad, in that you don't have time to waste, so you have to step up on the writing. However, it also means you don't have time to explore the impacts of a new format or characterization.

What was most surprising to me, besides the serial storytelling, was how obsessed the Turtles were becoming with catching Shredder (no more "eh, maybe next time.") Vicky Hall in the excellent TMNT Dissected website would refer to this as "The Game," wherein both the Turtles and the Foot villains had an unspoken agreement not to trump the other. I'll address that in another post, but Season 8 was a welcome change of pace in that respect. (The Turtles themselves addressed the concept quite well during their first chat in the Lair in "Turtle Trek.")

And I am gradually liking the H.A.V.O.C. arc, as it tried to be a decent transition from the series' prior template to the new one. Weren't for the shorter episode order and sucking up time/oxygen that can be used for Shredder, I think it could have been more well-received. Moreover, H.A.V.O.C. probably would have been more appreciated if we had prior characters in the mutant henchman roles rather than new ones. (Although, I did like Seizure and Hi-Beam's designs.)

Anyway, I'll save the rest for the Best of Season 8 thread, which I'll post on, next.