The TMNT Mirage Continuity Timeline (complete?) - Page 10

*DrSpengler* · 12-23-2009, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

You know, a true TMNT chronology book might still be possible. Printed, even. There couldn't be a better author than you.

I would give a kidney to write it. Something like those "Saga" comics that Marvel's been putting out ("Wolverine: Saga" or "New Mutants: Saga") would be a kick to write.

I was honored when Tristan asked me to help with timeline for the Mirage Universe Sourcebook and had a lot of fun communicating back and forth with him on it. I was even going to get a special thanks credit...until the thing got scrapped by the Viacom deal.

But ah well. Tristan put even more work into that book than I did and he's not cryin' about it, so I'll get over it.

*ToTheNines* · 12-23-2009, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honeycutt

I re-read Tales V1 #7 last night ("The Return of Savanti"), and I noticed that the group was still living in the city with April. They're bundled up for winter when they attend the museum, but then they return to the apartment, where Renet appears to the group. This should put the story right before Leonardo #1.

Also:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Challenges: Origin seems to indicate that Tales volume 1 # 7 takes place before Leonardo #1.

It absoloutely has to actually, since they're in the city with April and it takes place before "Challenges: Origin".... Unless you want to move that past Tales 1-7.

*DrSpengler* · 12-23-2009, 11:33 AM

I believe you guys are right. I think I originally had it there, but it somehow got shuffled downstream when Tristan and I reworked the chronology.

I bumped it backward to before Michealangelo #1.

Honeycutt · 12-23-2009, 02:55 PM

Perfect!

May I ask why you have "The Christmas Aliens" taking place directly before Leo's attack, though? In Leonardo #1, Donatello states while trimming the tree with April: "This is only our second real Christmas." That line refers to Michaelangelo #1, which Mirage has always placed directly after TMNT #7 in trade collections. (That placement is most certainly based on continuity, as it was published between #5 and #6.)

Second source: in "All Hallow's Thieves," April's store alarm gets tripped and the turtles suspect Klunk set it off. This couldn't have happened if Mike didn't find Klunk until two months later. This, along with the "second real Christmas" statement, establishes the following continuity:

1st year Christmas: Michaelangelo #1 "The Christmas Aliens"
The following Halloween: Tales #3 "All Hallow's Thieves"
2nd year Christmas: Leonardo #1 "What Goes Around... Comes Around"

*ToTheNines* · 12-24-2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honeycutt

May I ask why you have "The Christmas Aliens" taking place directly before Leo's attack, though? In Leonardo #1, Donatello states while trimming the tree with April: "This is only our second real Christmas." That line refers to Michaelangelo #1, which Mirage has always placed directly after TMNT #7 in trade collections. (That placement is most certainly based on continuity, as it was published between #5 and #6.)

Maybe Mike #1 takes place a couple of days before Christmas (I'm gonna read it today to clarify).

But that Don line is made inaccurate be Raph's Christmas Carol, the ghost of Christmas past shows them having Christmas in the lair before April.

Honeycutt · 12-24-2009, 11:44 AM

I'm sure Mike #1 takes place during the Christmas season, but not ON Christmas. It simply represents their first Christmas together with April, as a "family" (this is what I assume Don's line meant in Leonardo #1).

Lawson's back-up Xmas story just shows the guys in the lair before they met her, pre-Mouser attack. Sure, it establishes that they celebrated Christmases in the lair, but I don't think it does anything to contradict Don's statement being about the second Christmas they've all shared together. Besides, there's still the Klunk anachronism pointing to the 1-year time span I laid out above.

Honeycutt · 12-26-2009, 12:55 PM

Also: I noticed that you have "Credo" placed in the Volume 2 era, but it takes place just after they've moved into the farmhouse in Vol. 1 #11. Recall that in April's February 17, 1987 journal entry, she mentions that Donatello has found a typewriter in the attic and is busy writing something, though she doesn't know what. At the end of "Credo," he types the date: February 18, 1987.

*DrSpengler* · 12-26-2009, 01:33 PM

Alright, I finally got the time to double check all the stuff between Mikey #1 and Tales #3 and "Credo".

You're right, so I swapped some stuff around at your recommendation. Bumped Mikey #1 back to just after the end of the Utrom/Triceraton arc and moved Tales #3 and all the horror/Halloween-themed stories forward to shrotly before Leo #1 and the Christmasy stuff.

I suppose there's enough shorts in-between Mikey #1 and Tales #3 to fill a year, albeit a fairly uneventful year by Turtle standards.

As for "Credo", can't argue with the dates. Just had to flip through my copy because I recalled there being a lot of cameos and I wanted to be sure that nobody was in that story before their first appearance.

They weren't, so I moved it to just after TMNT #11.

Thanks for the input!

Honeycutt · 12-26-2009, 07:16 PM

No problem! When I first found this thread, I spent a whole weekend poring over it in sheer awe. As geeky as it sounds, I'm kind of honored to be able to lend a hand to such an awesome project.

And hey, when you look at the milestones between Christmases, that's a pretty eventful year! The gang meets Renet and fights Savanti; Don meets Kirby; there's the Radical and Carnage battle; (my placement of the first Leatherhead meeting happens that year, as well); Halloween brings the King of Thieves; Savanti returns for round 2; then there's the Christmas Eve Foot attack and retreat. The guys were pretty busy in Year 2!

Here's something that I can't remember if you've addressed so far in this thread (I scanned earlier, but there's a lot of ground covered in 10 pages): how long is the exile to Northampton? I've always thought it was a year long, and I could have sworn that someone somewhere in the comics confirms that verbally. However, the dates in April's journal after the move are in January 1987, putting the Foot assault on Leo in December 1986. Then of course, there's the New York Times issue in the opening splash of "Return to New York" showing December 23, 1988. This shows through hard date references that the exile lasted two years.

On the one hand, I can see a 2-year time frame. The C.R.A.P. issue (#12) was obviously set in spring or summer, as the gang is having a nice outdoor picnic and some characters are wearing tank-tops. Then after that, you've got "The Unmentionables" (#14) where snow is on the ground. A few notable issues take place after that, however, like the meeting with Nobody where it doesn't appear to be very cold out. Then in "I, Monster" (which you and I both seem to consider the last notable event before RtNY), the Rat King mentions that "it's really become too cold for the swamp routine," as well as that "the days grow shorter now," so winter is clearly falling.

What say you? 1 year? 2 years? If issue #1 took place in summer, then the "three years ago I saw you die" line from "Return" would support either a 1- or 2-year exile - Leo could round up or down as he saw fit. I just can't remember if or where I've seen a character specifically mention 1 year between the Foot ambush and the return to kill Shredder.

*DrSpengler* · 12-26-2009, 07:38 PM

Well, its hard to argue with dates, so I'm inclined to take them as priority when organizing the timeline.

If the exile began in December of 86 and the Return to New York happened in December of 88, then its gotta be two years.

Of course, the ages of the Turtles tend to be inconsistent. I sort of look at that as being "comic book time". Dates can state that several years have passed but a character can remain "17" for however long. Annoying, yeah, but nothing new to comics, I suppose.

As for "Leatherhead", I think I initially had that story in the Retreat to the Farmhouse era, but changed it after discussions with Tristan. Placing it after "Worms of Madness" explains away how the Turtles can be shown living in their old sewer lair without Leatherhead present.

*DrSpengler* · 12-28-2009, 09:55 PM

Alright, I have a question I could use some guidance on.

Where would be the best place to stick the story arc from Savage Dragon #2 and Savage Dragon/TMNT #1?

It has to take place before TMNT (Vol. 2), because its events are referenced in #3, but it can't take place between Vol. 1 and Vol. 2 because of the presence of Donatello.

The second Savage Dragon crossover isn't hard to place. I've already found a slot for the Image Vol. 3 series and I'd just have that arc taking place right before it.

But the first Savage Dragon crossover is giving me kind of a rough time. The only place I can think to fit it is pre-City at War.

*Andrew NDB* · 12-28-2009, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

But the first Savage Dragon crossover is giving me kind of a rough time. The only place I can think to fit it is pre-City at War.

Sounds about right to me.

*DrSpengler* · 12-28-2009, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Sounds about right to me.

Kay.

With that in mind, then, I suppose I'd have to stick it at the very end of the "Return to New York" era, right before the "Return to North Hampton" era, since we're trying to keep all these NY/NH settings together.

The only problem I see with that is it would put the story a few years before it was published, but considering it was such a hollow, harmless crossover, it probably wouldn't do any damage.

*DrSpengler* · 12-28-2009, 10:15 PM

Alright, added it to the list.

Including since it was referenced in TMNT (Vol. 2) #3, making it Mirage canon in some capacity, anyway.

*Andrew NDB* · 12-28-2009, 11:15 PM

I never really thought the Savage Dragon crossovers were ever in doubt (aside from the one inside Vol. 3 itself), given the Mirage-published specials directly dovetailed into the corresponding TSD issues. Or vice-versa.

And the thought of Mirage Mike Dooney stuff not being canon is angering.

Daniel Orduna · 12-29-2009, 05:40 AM

wow mix up.....why they do the order like that it ¿¿

*ToTheNines* · 12-29-2009, 04:37 PM

Shut up. Can you really not comprehend what the point of this thread is? Or would you be more entertained my him just numerically listing each issue of each volume/series?

*DrSpengler* · 12-29-2009, 06:19 PM

Hmmm..

Looks like I'll have to transplant the timeline from this thread to my site sooner than I thought.

I tried to add a whole bunch of new stories and I've apparently exceeded the character limit for the post.

I'll work on transplanting the timeline soon and then replace the incomplete one in the first post with a link when I'm finished.

Mervee4 · 12-29-2009, 09:56 PM

Hey, I love this timeline. I have just read straight through the entire thing over the last few months. Is it possible to highlight the updated material? It would make it so much easier to add new and moved books to the correct spots on my shelf.

Daniel Orduna · 12-30-2009, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Shut up. Can you really not comprehend what the point of this thread is? Or would you be more entertained my him just numerically listing each issue of each volume/series?

hey ,listen I only have like halfof the tmn tales, so is hard 2 get if u dont have the first comics.. so callate si no saves che culito

12-23-2009, 02:55 PM	#184
Honeycutt Random Punk Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 26	Perfect! May I ask why you have "The Christmas Aliens" taking place directly before Leo's attack, though? In Leonardo #1, Donatello states while trimming the tree with April: "This is only our second real Christmas." That line refers to Michaelangelo #1, which Mirage has always placed directly after TMNT #7 in trade collections. (That placement is most certainly based on continuity, as it was published between #5 and #6.) Second source: in "All Hallow's Thieves," April's store alarm gets tripped and the turtles suspect Klunk set it off. This couldn't have happened if Mike didn't find Klunk until two months later. This, along with the "second real Christmas" statement, establishes the following continuity: 1st year Christmas: Michaelangelo #1 "The Christmas Aliens" The following Halloween: Tales #3 "All Hallow's Thieves" 2nd year Christmas: Leonardo #1 "What Goes Around... Comes Around" Last edited by Honeycutt; 12-23-2009 at 02:56 PM. Reason: Typo

12-24-2009, 11:44 AM	#186
Honeycutt Random Punk Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 26	I'm sure Mike #1 takes place during the Christmas season, but not ON Christmas. It simply represents their first Christmas together with April, as a "family" (this is what I assume Don's line meant in Leonardo #1). Lawson's back-up Xmas story just shows the guys in the lair before they met her, pre-Mouser attack. Sure, it establishes that they celebrated Christmases in the lair, but I don't think it does anything to contradict Don's statement being about the second Christmas they've all shared together. Besides, there's still the Klunk anachronism pointing to the 1-year time span I laid out above. Last edited by Honeycutt; 12-24-2009 at 01:39 PM. Reason: Clairty

12-26-2009, 12:55 PM	#187
Honeycutt Random Punk Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 26	Placement of "Credo" Also: I noticed that you have "Credo" placed in the Volume 2 era, but it takes place just after they've moved into the farmhouse in Vol. 1 #11. Recall that in April's February 17, 1987 journal entry, she mentions that Donatello has found a typewriter in the attic and is busy writing something, though she doesn't know what. At the end of "Credo," he types the date: February 18, 1987.

12-28-2009, 09:55 PM	#191
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,842	Alright, I have a question I could use some guidance on. Where would be the best place to stick the story arc from Savage Dragon #2 and Savage Dragon/TMNT #1? It has to take place before TMNT (Vol. 2), because its events are referenced in #3, but it can't take place between Vol. 1 and Vol. 2 because of the presence of Donatello. The second Savage Dragon crossover isn't hard to place. I've already found a slot for the Image Vol. 3 series and I'd just have that arc taking place right before it. But the first Savage Dragon crossover is giving me kind of a rough time. The only place I can think to fit it is pre-City at War. Last edited by DrSpengler; 12-28-2009 at 10:08 PM.

12-28-2009, 11:15 PM	#195
Andrew NDB Weed Whacker Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 34,289	I never really thought the Savage Dragon crossovers were ever in doubt (aside from the one inside Vol. 3 itself), given the Mirage-published specials directly dovetailed into the corresponding TSD issues. Or vice-versa. And the thought of Mirage Mike Dooney stuff not being canon is angering. __________________ [ ODYSSEY \| ORIGIN \| THE IMAGE/VOL. 3 CONCLUSION \| THE SHELLSHOCKED PODCAST \| ON FACEBOOK ]

12-23-2009, 11:33 AM	#183
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,842	I believe you guys are right. I think I originally had it there, but it somehow got shuffled downstream when Tristan and I reworked the chronology. I bumped it backward to before Michealangelo #1.

12-26-2009, 01:33 PM	#188
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,842	Alright, I finally got the time to double check all the stuff between Mikey #1 and Tales #3 and "Credo". You're right, so I swapped some stuff around at your recommendation. Bumped Mikey #1 back to just after the end of the Utrom/Triceraton arc and moved Tales #3 and all the horror/Halloween-themed stories forward to shrotly before Leo #1 and the Christmasy stuff. I suppose there's enough shorts in-between Mikey #1 and Tales #3 to fill a year, albeit a fairly uneventful year by Turtle standards. As for "Credo", can't argue with the dates. Just had to flip through my copy because I recalled there being a lot of cameos and I wanted to be sure that nobody was in that story before their first appearance. They weren't, so I moved it to just after TMNT #11. Thanks for the input!

12-26-2009, 07:16 PM	#189
Honeycutt Random Punk Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 26	No problem! When I first found this thread, I spent a whole weekend poring over it in sheer awe. As geeky as it sounds, I'm kind of honored to be able to lend a hand to such an awesome project. And hey, when you look at the milestones between Christmases, that's a pretty eventful year! The gang meets Renet and fights Savanti; Don meets Kirby; there's the Radical and Carnage battle; (my placement of the first Leatherhead meeting happens that year, as well); Halloween brings the King of Thieves; Savanti returns for round 2; then there's the Christmas Eve Foot attack and retreat. The guys were pretty busy in Year 2! Here's something that I can't remember if you've addressed so far in this thread (I scanned earlier, but there's a lot of ground covered in 10 pages): how long is the exile to Northampton? I've always thought it was a year long, and I could have sworn that someone somewhere in the comics confirms that verbally. However, the dates in April's journal after the move are in January 1987, putting the Foot assault on Leo in December 1986. Then of course, there's the New York Times issue in the opening splash of "Return to New York" showing December 23, 1988. This shows through hard date references that the exile lasted two years. On the one hand, I can see a 2-year time frame. The C.R.A.P. issue (#12) was obviously set in spring or summer, as the gang is having a nice outdoor picnic and some characters are wearing tank-tops. Then after that, you've got "The Unmentionables" (#14) where snow is on the ground. A few notable issues take place after that, however, like the meeting with Nobody where it doesn't appear to be very cold out. Then in "I, Monster" (which you and I both seem to consider the last notable event before RtNY), the Rat King mentions that "it's really become too cold for the swamp routine," as well as that "the days grow shorter now," so winter is clearly falling. What say you? 1 year? 2 years? If issue #1 took place in summer, then the "three years ago I saw you die" line from "Return" would support either a 1- or 2-year exile - Leo could round up or down as he saw fit. I just can't remember if or where I've seen a character specifically mention 1 year between the Foot ambush and the return to kill Shredder.

12-26-2009, 07:38 PM	#190
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,842	Well, its hard to argue with dates, so I'm inclined to take them as priority when organizing the timeline. If the exile began in December of 86 and the Return to New York happened in December of 88, then its gotta be two years. Of course, the ages of the Turtles tend to be inconsistent. I sort of look at that as being "comic book time". Dates can state that several years have passed but a character can remain "17" for however long. Annoying, yeah, but nothing new to comics, I suppose. As for "Leatherhead", I think I initially had that story in the Retreat to the Farmhouse era, but changed it after discussions with Tristan. Placing it after "Worms of Madness" explains away how the Turtles can be shown living in their old sewer lair without Leatherhead present.

12-28-2009, 10:15 PM	#194
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,842	Alright, added it to the list. Including since it was referenced in TMNT (Vol. 2) #3, making it Mirage canon in some capacity, anyway.

12-29-2009, 05:40 AM	#196
Daniel Orduna Hench Mutant Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: torreon coah mexico Posts: 273	wow mix up.....why they do the order like that it ¿¿ __________________ float like a butter fly sting like a bee

12-29-2009, 04:37 PM	#197
ToTheNines Col. Stinkmeaner Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 19,115	Shut up. Can you really not comprehend what the point of this thread is? Or would you be more entertained my him just numerically listing each issue of each volume/series?

12-29-2009, 06:19 PM	#198
DrSpengler Foot Elite Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,842	Hmmm.. Looks like I'll have to transplant the timeline from this thread to my site sooner than I thought. I tried to add a whole bunch of new stories and I've apparently exceeded the character limit for the post. I'll work on transplanting the timeline soon and then replace the incomplete one in the first post with a link when I'm finished.

12-29-2009, 09:56 PM	#199
Mervee4 New Recruit Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3	Highlighted updates? Hey, I love this timeline. I have just read straight through the entire thing over the last few months. Is it possible to highlight the updated material? It would make it so much easier to add new and moved books to the correct spots on my shelf.