Pattinson/Reeves Batman Movie (Formerly Affleck Stand-Alone Film)

[AquaParade]

Possibly more appropriate lol. If the thing isn't worth paying for, it probably isn't worth your time either. Call me crazy, but I value time and brain cells as much as money. Just sounds like an excuse to pirate something.

But hey, it's not like I've never taken something without paying, I just don't buy that line of reasoning. Sounds like an excuse to me.

I'm happy to reward the studio for funding a hugely expensive Batman film, without feeling the need to step in and control everything creatively. Even if I don't like the end product, I still think they deserve the money.
Yeah, I'm a simp for creative freedom. Sue me.

We don't want to live in the future where Justice League 2017 makes more than The Batman. Doesn't send a good message to studio. I don't even need to see The Batman to know that.

But I think I get it - they cast some black people as traditionally white characters, during a time when we've lost all sense of nuance. You're either racist or woke and this movie, like everything else, is either with us or against us.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

Possibly more appropriate lol. If the thing isn't worth paying for, it probably isn't worth your time either. Call me crazy, but I value time and brain cells as much as money. Just sounds like an excuse to pirate something.

I get that and in some ways I'm with you on it.

But given the events of the last many years in conjunction with the social directions and circular logic like guilt tripping people for not seeing a movie while judging it, etc; I think there is a solid case to be made for screening something before you give it financial support.

And so it's because of the circular-logic manipulations by Hollywood, the people of Twitter, the wider left, etc we are now positioned one of two ways. The first is that we pay people who criticize us for content that we don't want and are the patsy. The second is that we value our time and money and so decide to vet it before giving the money over to people who call you a "racist" for not seeing something that they appropriated or twisted in the first place.

In short, if people want to give circular-manipulative-blame arguments, then the remedy is to simple take care of yourself at zero financial or time risk before giving those people a dollar.

This Batman is a fringe flick as far as the social nonsense goes - on cursory glance it has some material that is in question as to whether or not any given person may want to pay to see it. It's got an iffy Batman, it's got a direction that might be neat but isn't maybe what we wanted on film. It's got a token race swap in it. Etc. But I wouldn't say that it's full-on Craptain Marvel with a foolish star, or politicized-Black Panther-style, or etc. So I'm a fence sitter on this one, but nowadays even that is enough for me to not go in blind and give these people the money.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

You can't actually think they are going to kill of Pattinson in this film. There is a greater chance of the Ninja Turtles making a guest appearance.

If it makes you feel better, in the clip above, Batman is schooling Catwoman. So it doesn't look like this is some kind of "anything you can do, I can do better." schlock.

I wouldn't mind it if Catwoman was schooling Batman. I find it strange that a lot of continuities show how he's traveled across the globe to learn different styles and techniques in fighting and yet no matter how much he's learned, he still manages to get his ass kicked by thugs who are more or less average brawlers (I still find Nolan's origin where he trains as a Ninja hilarious when this dude gets handed by Bane) and even gets sneak attacked by folks like Joker. I'm fine with Batman being vulnerable yet able to overcome a lot of obstacles but I think the whole travel across the globe thing is just getting old and I hope not to see it in this movie.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

I wouldn't mind it if Catwoman was schooling Batman. I find it strange that a lot of continuities show how he's traveled across the globe to learn different styles and techniques in fighting and yet no matter how much he's learned, he still manages to get his ass kicked by thugs who are more or less average brawlers (I still find Nolan's origin where he trains as a Ninja hilarious when this dude gets handed by Bane) and even gets sneak attacked by folks like Joker. I'm fine with Batman being vulnerable yet able to overcome a lot of obstacles but I think the whole travel across the globe thing is just getting old and I hope not to see it in this movie.

Fair point. I only used that example because it's sort of a trope for modern woke content to have the girl showing the guy up, but whether or not it's appropriate matters, of course.
That said, Batman typically has more training under his belt than Catwoman.

I don't think we'll be seeing any globetrotting in this film. My understanding is that this is a young Batman, still learning about himself, but not an origin film by most means.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by IMJ

I get that and in some ways I'm with you on it.

But given the events of the last many years in conjunction with the social directions and circular logic like guilt tripping people for not seeing a movie while judging it, etc; I think there is a solid case to be made for screening something before you give it financial support.

And so it's because of the circular-logic manipulations by Hollywood, the people of Twitter, the wider left, etc we are now positioned one of two ways. The first is that we pay people who criticize us for content that we don't want and are the patsy. The second is that we value our time and money and so decide to vet it before giving the money over to people who call you a "racist" for not seeing something that they appropriated or twisted in the first place.

In short, if people want to give circular-manipulative-blame arguments, then the remedy is to simple take care of yourself at zero financial or time risk before giving those people a dollar.

This Batman is a fringe flick as far as the social nonsense goes - on cursory glance it has some material that is in question as to whether or not any given person may want to pay to see it. It's got an iffy Batman, it's got a direction that might be neat but isn't maybe what we wanted on film. It's got a token race swap in it. Etc. But I wouldn't say that it's full-on Craptain Marvel with a foolish star, or politicized-Black Panther-style, or etc. So I'm a fence sitter on this one, but nowadays even that is enough for me to not go in blind and give these people the money.

This would be a solid argument if you were dependent on being entertained by this film.
If you are willing to give it a chance, you are acknowledging the work put in to make the film as worthy. You may step out of the film with a bad taste in your mouth, but you still entertained yourself by experiencing it and making judgement calls.
You were served.
And it takes a truly vile product to convince me they don't deserve to be compensated for that work.

I think this rings even more true if you are skeptical of the product, based off what you already know about it.
It's like talking crap about taco bell, but then agreeing to eat one of their burritos, and deciding afterwards that you aren't going to pay for it, because it tasted like crap - "just had to confirm my suspicions, thanks for the free food!"

To me, it's pretty much that simple. None of us need to consume anything, if it's that big a risk.
The caveat I will give is that I also believe a lot of this "woke" stuff is in the eye of the beholder. Not all of it, by a longshot, but an increasing amount of paranoia has risen in recoil to "woke" tactics.

It takes more than a few black people sound my alarm. And that was the only example you gave in terms of truly "questionable" choices that would dictate this movie doesn't deserve support.
If that casting choice itself even counts, which to me it doesn't at all. It's simply not enough evidence. If anything, it's the studio simply trying to capture as many demographics as possible. It's business and it isn't new or going away. As long as the actor does a good job and the film turns out great, it doesn't matter.


All that said, I'm not judging you one bit if you pirate it. Not my place. I'm just enjoying the debate.

[IMJ]

Sure....

And much of what you said there is true.
Except for the singular point being about "black people". Given the greater term of "race swap" and "appropriation" it's less about Catwoman being black and more about Catwoman not being white in this current climate.

But otherwise, sure. Yeah much of that is true.

[AquaParade]

Reactions:

Hanna Flint, MTV Movies: Matt Reeves delivers a nail-biting and fun Batman coming of age story

Unilad: Absolutely euphoric

Total Film: Sensational

Empire: Gripping

Shortlist: One helluva movie

Insider: Robert Pattinson will be your new favourite Batman

These could qualify as Bumper Stickers, but still somewhat promising.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

So chances of a potential Pattinson skin in the Arkham games?

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

So chances of a potential Pattinson skin in the Arkham games?

To what? Arkham Knight, years after they stopped adding any new DLC? Highly unlikely. And I don't think Batman is even in "Gotham Knights"?

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

So chances of a potential Pattinson skin in the Arkham games?

Arkham Knight came out in 2015. Not sure why you'd expect anything for a game from 7 years ago.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

True but it's not impossible as one more DLC.

[CyberCubed]

I don't think any game that isn't an online evergreen multiplayer game that gets new DLC this many years out.

[AquaParade]

Ty Burr
@tyburr
Saw a film tonight that is apocalyptic in fresh and ugly and relevant ways, and I guess we sometimes get the movies we need and/or the movies we deserve.

Brian Tallerico
@Brian_Tallerico
"I’ve already had some the most enjoyable film discussions of the last few years about a little movie coming out next week. The films that provoke these kind of rich conversations are always my favorites of the year."

Spoiler:

Hyped for this ****! Hope it doesn't let me down.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

[SPOILER]Hyped for this ****! Hope it doesn't let me down.

I'm sure you'll enjoy it, man.
Bare minimum it's very hard to make a bad Batman movie - let alone a mediocre one.

These flicks are more about do you want/accept the style of the release at any given time. Even the awful Clooney flick has it's place as a modern parody of the 60's show.

Pattman will be entertaining enough on it's own merits, I'm sure.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by IMJ

I'm sure you'll enjoy it, man.
Bare minimum it's very hard to make a bad Batman movie - let alone a mediocre one.

These flicks are more about do you want/accept the style of the release at any given time. Even the awful Clooney flick has it's place as a modern parody of the 60's show.

Pattman will be entertaining enough on it's own merits, I'm sure.

Right on, man.
I know I'm personally guaranteed to enjoy it on some level, because Batman is hard to screw up, as you said, and I've seen enough to know I'm down with the style of film.

At the same time, I have high expectations, so I won't help but feel a tinge of disappointment if this isn't a great movie. If this turned out to be the quality of the Clooney or Kilmer flick, I'd have to go get drunk after. For as easy as it is to do Batman right, there is just as much expectation and responsibility to do great by him. Any artist stepping up to do Batman has a lot of competition.

I know it'll be good, but it has to be great to satisfy me.
Mostly because I am often a victim of my own high expectations.

[ZariusTwo]

I think this movie's going to come out at the wrong time. That talk of it being 'relevant' doesn't drum up confidence in me that it'd be a pleasant watch

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

I think this movie's going to come out at the wrong time. That talk of it being 'relevant' doesn't drum up confidence in me that it'd be a pleasant watch

Ooooh, yeah. That's a red flag word for sure, right there. I hear that and straight away I'm going, "OK, who's gay? Who's a white racist? Is there cops beating up black guys?"

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

I think this movie's going to come out at the wrong time. That talk of it being 'relevant' doesn't drum up confidence in me that it'd be a pleasant watch

I think it will do well, but I think there is more appeal in something light and fluffy, like Spider-Man right now, because a lot of us feel like the real world has been so gloomy lately.

Politics in films can be done well and powerfully, but if they push the wrong buttons, it'll just be exhausting.

Edit: Negative reaction(?):

David Chen
@davechensky
You know who made some good Batman movies? Christopher Nolan.

BATMAN BEGINS. DARK KNIGHT. Heck even DARK KNIGHT RISES. All three of them had some great elements to them.

The guy really knew what he was doing when it came to Batman movies, is what I’m trying to get across.

[CyberCubed]

Remember in the Dark Knight when one of the officers yells, "No more dead cops!" and the people applaud. That line would never fly these days compared to 2008.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Remember in the Dark Knight when one of the officers yells, "No more dead cops!" and the people applaud. That line would never fly these days compared to 2008.

Yeah, or when Bane locks up the whole city's police force into the sewers for a year? I mean, that's figuratively exactly what BLM and its virtue signallers did to the police for about a year.