The episode idea thread (Turtle Torture Edition)

[yellowmario27]

Originally Posted by Tarris Vaal

Its called the turtle torture thread for a reason

But in all honesty, its mostly Donatello who gets the worst end of it because he is also the one who tends to come up with the solution to get them out of whatever mess they're in. Take him out and its always a lot harder for the others to cope. Which is always more interesting
Plus - like it or not - the Apritello thing provides a lot of ammunition for writers to play around with when given the option to do nasty things to one of the turtles.

(and I think its a safe bet most of the regular posters in this thread are Donatello fans - we try to put focus on the others now and then dagnammit, but he's just too awesome )

heh i know I was just wondering why everyone was strongly for DONNIE being tortured/kidnapped rather than anyone else. And you're right, he is awesome

your points make sense~ I think if anything, Shredder would try to mutate one of the turtles, since that seems like his go to thing at the moment.

especially since he knows the cure won't work on the turtles, it would just make them regular turtles again.

[victory_angel]

As of the current episode his thing is brain washing. He doesn't want to mutate the Turtles, he wants to kill them. But he can also use them as part of his army or at least the ones he sees as more promising as brainwashed subjects.

[victory_angel]

Presumably the writers and producers for the Nicktoons show had plenty of fore knowledge of what was going to happen in IDW (particularly as they're prone to overlapping a bit now and again). Do you think they would have guessed the reaction to IDW 44, and deliberately written in a scene like this where the viewers see nothing and its just strongly implied from reactions that the same or worse has happened - only to find out next episode its nowhere near as bad (serious maybe but not 'that' bad) - perhaps just to leave the fans with a week or two of wild speculation?

Well it's likely not going to be as violent as issue #44. We will likely see somewhat of a beat down but the most brutal part we won't see beyond the initial seconds of it. Then Donnie's 3/4 dead carcass either would be something the characters are seeing off screen (Kinda like we just see Crognard jump into that demon horde) we just see the Turtles react to it, but we don't officially see what they are reacting too. And even if we did see a
battered Donnie it would be the battered Turtle model they use for the Turtles have suffered a major beating.

But likelyhood they would just have the Turtles reacting to the sight of Donnie (Leaving the actual visual up to the viewers imagination) and then next episode we would have everyone else sitting in the lair. Maybe Mikey crying while being comforted by Leo. April is also beside herself with grief. Casey is probably pacing around looking like he wants to punch something. Leo isn't really saying anything to anyone, he's more or less trying to hold himself together for everyone else. Then Splinter comes out and says he's done what he can for Donatello at this time. So we'd just see Donnie sleeping and covered in bandages.

Originally Posted by Meliwen

If we do have anyone hurt severely, I'd want it to be Raph's doing under the mind control. Whether or not Raph is responsible for something horrible happening plot wise or if he does something horrible himself (like hurting Donnie, Leo, Mikey or Splinter), I think it'd be nice to have some sort of consequence that he'll have to deal with after he's back to normal, rather than giving everyone a high three, shrugging off being controlled and then gaining nothing character wise from the entire ordeal.

I was thinking that if an issue #44 situation like I described on a earlier post does occur that it's implied that Raph was the one that would be or did brutally injure Donnie. Maybe have Donnie in that moment trying to reach Raph such as:

Donnie: Raph! Raph, don't do this! It's me...your brother!

Raph may have his moments where he hurts Mikey and Leo as well. Then after the mind control serum is no longer active, Raph remembers what he's done and is horrified wishing it was just a nightmare. But much like City Fall after they got Leo back, Leo still had problems returning mentally and emotionally to his family. So Raph might feel he doesn't belong any longer or he can't be trusted.

[Tarris Vaal]

I was thinking more that because the writers know that turtles fans would already be aware of what happened in IDW, that they would deliberately use it to wrong foot us

Thinking about it, I could see that as we have the unresolved issue (on screen at least) of Donatello's guilt for fighting with Leo in Invasion it might lead to something quite different. Imagine for example;

Spoiler:

Raph is secretly brainwashed using the serum. As Shredder is aware the Turtles are able to use retromutagen, he wishes to strike them down. An early attempt to brainwash all of them fails, so instead he resolves to destroy them.

He's fought Leo specifically 3 times now and would be aware of him as leader and a skilled fighter more than any of the others. He decides as Leo is the 'favoured son' he needs to die first, to leave the Turtles leaderless and to strike at Hamato Yoshi by removing his eldest.

In the meantime, Donnie has had some suspicions about Raph and brings them to Leo's attention, but Leo dismisses him - thinking Raph has actually got his temper under control more recently, and that Donnie is perhaps just a little bitter because Raph has once again pointed out recently his total lack of chance romantically with April. They have a plan to free Karai from the Foot and although Donnie has his doubts, Leo asks for Donnie to trust his judgement. Remembering Invasion, Donnie reluctantly agrees.

Raph is forced to lead Leo into a trap during the rescue attempt - a trap that is a lot as Donnie warned Leo might happen. Donnie and Mikey are distracted fighting elsewhere, and instead of pairing with Leo, Raph betrays him and leads him into B+Rs hands. We then get an implied scene that looks a lot like its going to turn into IDW 44.

Instead of Donatello suffering the severe beating, its Leo who is almost killed. However, although its looks like its going to be the hammer blow it was in IDW, Donatello manages to get there in time. He deflects the hit intended for Leo and allows Leo chance to escape. Mikey and Leo start fending off B+R.

Raph then sees April close by fighting footbots and goes after her. Donnie intervenes and warns him off but Raph is unable to stop himself and attacks Donatello in front of everyone, and thats when we get the severe injury. Mikey and Leo manage to get Donatello to safety, and the three of them, April and Casey escape the trap.


That way, it foreshadows IDW 44 but avoids it last minute. Donatello still gets injured and knocked out of the immediate fight, but isn't on the verge of death (instead we get the groundwork for Raph to be guilt ridden for what he's done and possibly feel he has to stay with the Foot even after the serum has worn off). We touch on the guilt left at Invasion, and have a sprinkling of apritello as the writers like to do

As a side note - is it fair to say anyone who reads this thread already knows what happens in IDW 44? Do I still need to use spoiler alerts?

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Tarris Vaal

As a side note - is it fair to say anyone who reads this thread already knows what happens in IDW 44? Do I still need to use spoiler alerts?

Kinda I mean yeah there are people here who don't really following the comics so spoiling about Donnie's fate is going irk some people.

Spoiler:

Fortunately there is a leaked image from the next issue that indicates that Donnie's isn't actually dead, he's in a coma and has to be kept on life support.

So far on the injury scale there seems to be a pattern with the current fight.
We've had minor injury (all turtles)

Major injury (Mikey twice, Donnie)

Severe injury (Leo)

We sort of had a near death experience.

But we haven't had self-sacrifice culminating into a near death experience.

We had Leo sacrificing himself twice to save his family and the city. The first time Donnie seems to recognize what Leo intended to do as his statement of "Whoa Leo, don't tell me you're thinking what I think your thinking!" can be interpreted as "Please tell me it hasn't come to this? Not yet..."

All the other times there has been a systematic pattern to how each of the Turtles are captured/wounded/ incapacitated. In Slash and Destroy, Donnie and Mikey are both picked off systematically by Slash.

Donnie is picked first because he's the brains of the team, and he's considered the weakest fighter by their enemies. Raph even calls him on it at times. And the mentality of people like the Foot/Triceratons is that the weak are meant to be crushed.

Mikey was chosen next because he's the one with the most raw talent as a warrior, but he doesn't focus so it's often wasted. And his childishness enabled him to fall into that obvious trap.

Leonardo was attacked last because he's Raph's chief offender in Slashes mind. And he's the leader of the team, fighting a leader isn't usually a first fight it's the prize fight. By defeating and eliminating his followers one breaks the moral of the leader so that his attacks are fueled by anger and he doesn't think clearly regarding his strikes because he is to focused on avenging his fallen comrades. But also so he has no one to aid him in battle.

(This is ultimately what would aid in the defeat of the Shredder but that would come much later.)

Buried secrets was also a systematic take down,

Mikey was taken out first because he knew Mom Thing wasn't what she was claiming to be

Donnie because he had stumbled on to something that Mom Thing didn't want reveled.

Leo because he came down because he realized the Donnie he thought he was talking to was a fake so he needed to be taken out before he could inform Raph.

Raph was attacked because he was one of the only people standing between Mom Thing and April.

So with Dark Raph I see things being systematic as well.

Shredder has a "the weak are supposed to be crushed" mentality which is indicated when he tells Hun that success should be rewarded, and then glances back at Rahzar and Fishface and says "And failure should be punished."

So with the mind control syrum, after Stockman fails at creating a retromutagen for Karai. Shredder learns from rocksteady and bebop that the Turtles have created Retromutagen.

He then orders them to bring him the Turtle who made the Retromutagen. When Rahzar or Tiger Claw points out the Turtle wouldn't create it willingly, Shredder says he has a way of getting them to cooperate.

Rocksteady and Bebop are sent out to apprehend the Turtle who can create retro-mutagen. Unfortunately beyond names they don't know one turtle from the other. So they figure if they grab one Turtle because they have a 25% chance of being right, and if they grab the wrong Turtle he can be forced into leading them to the right one.

Raph in the mean time gets frustrated with his brothers once again so he goes top side where he nabbed by the gruesome twosome. Unfortunately he's not the one who was able to make Retro mutagen. Shredder has Stockman inject him with the mind control serum. Raph fights it but it quickly takes effect, he tells Shredder that his brother Donatello has been able to create Retromutagen, the retromutagen doesn't work on Karai as they have tried that before.

He doesn't tell Shredder that Mikey had created an additive to make the mutagen more powerful because that was more or less just a lucky fluke. With the help of Raph, Foot mutants find the lair and attack it. Not to kill the turtles but to capture them so Splinter can watch as his sons all become mind slaves of the Shredder. The mind control serum is added to the water supply so all of New York (including April's father) April and Casey are with the Turtles, Casey betrays them because he had gotten himself some water from the sink not knowing the water supply was contaminated with the mind control syrum.

Raph and Leo duke it out in the fight. During the battle when Raph is about to deliver a killing blow to Leo. Donnie pushes Leo out of the way and takes the blow for him. Raph is stunned that Donnie would do such as thing but he quickly gets over it. Leo in the mean time helps Donnie up. And the group escapes while the clan destroys the lair. Rahzar or Fishface wants to go after them, but Raph says to let them run for now. He already knows where their headed.

Tigerclaw begins to have his apprehensions about the Shredder and wonders if he's serving the right team. Shredder in the mean time takes the abandoned TCRI building as his new seat of power.

Then later when Donnie is captured it would be during a time where he is beginning to doubt Raph's loyalty despite being mind controlled. So they manage to capture Donatello when the farm house is attacked by the Foot Clan. On the return to the city Donnie tries to reach Casey but it doesn't work. Donnie is brought before the Shredder. Bebop holds down Donnie so Raph can slay his brother. Tiger Claw speaks up and says there is no honor in slaying a defenseless person, he should at least have the honor of being able to defend himself even if it does him very little.

In a high stakes bluff (to buy time) Donnie says he's developed a retromutagen that can restore Karai. And if they kill him, Karai will be a mutant forever. Shredder mulls it over and agrees let Donnie live. However he must let Stockman observe and he would be kept under constant surveillance. And if this is a trick he would live long enough to regret it.

Donnie creates the retromutagen without the key ingredient,it also enables him to assess the equipment used for mind control serum. Stockman wastes not time in harassing in the time it takes to make the Retromutagen. Tiger Claw in the mean time does stand guard at Donnie's cell. Donnie begins to inquire about how he came to associate himself with the Foot, how did he become a mutant ect. At first Tiger Claw isn't interested in chit chatting, but he slowly begins to warm up.

Donnie when the Retromutagen is completed Shredder wants to test it so he decides to try it out on Fishface because he's expendable. Fishface is double mutated into Armagon and Shredder at once accuses Donatello of double crossing him.

[miru]

The Real Irma:

- After a series of nightmares, Mike is convinced there is a real Irma, and risks going back to Dimension X to find her.
- When he goes in, cue a Beatdown by Traag, Granitory, and Snakeweed before Irma is found.

[Meliwen]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

I was thinking that if an issue #44 situation like I described on a earlier post does occur that it's implied that Raph was the one that would be or did brutally injure Donnie. Maybe have Donnie in that moment trying to reach Raph such as:

Donnie: Raph! Raph, don't do this! It's me...your brother!

Raph may have his moments where he hurts Mikey and Leo as well. Then after the mind control serum is no longer active, Raph remembers what he's done and is horrified wishing it was just a nightmare. But much like City Fall after they got Leo back, Leo still had problems returning mentally and emotionally to his family. So Raph might feel he doesn't belong any longer or he can't be trusted.

I misread your earlier post and thought you wanted Bebop and Rocksteady to be responsible for hurting Donnie again, my bad! Also Donnie begging for Raph not to do it would just make it even worse, or better, depending on your view. And I love that last bit, I would love to see something like that come out of the Dark Raph arc.

[victory_angel]

There are numerous jabs in show about Donnie being a weaker fighter then everyone else. Some of it is jabs at his weapon such as Rockwell Monkey saying "Ah yes...with that little stick of yours." And this recent episode he was fighting Fishface one one one. Fishface is considered the weakest of Shredder's mutants and Donnie has beaten him twice.


Maybe one situation isn't so much Donnie gets his shell beaten, but more that he tries to take matters into his own hands and tries to make a deal with the Foot in order to gain Raph back. Or maybe Raph tells Shredder that Donnie's weakness is April. Threaten her and he'll do what ever they tell him to do.

April is abducted, Casey is wounded trying to help her. And all they need to do is bring the Retromutagen, Donnie (who has conveniently made a retromutagen that he hopes would be able to restore Karai) wants to go after April to save her. Leo however tells his brother that he understands his brothers desires to save April but she wouldn't want him to put himself at risk for her. They will go after her when they have a plan but they need to concern themselves with how to stop the mind control serum. And return Raph to himself.

Donnie slips away from his brothers and arrives at the Shredder's lair. He tells Shredder he has the Retromutagen and is willing to release it in exchange for April. Shredder agrees to this...however he doesn't agree to let Donnie leave alive.

As the Shredder has no qualms about what happens to April, he puts her in the same cell with Karai. Karai naturally attacks the girl however April is able to restore Karai's mind all but temporarily before the two of them are placed in separate containment chambers. Shredder has Donnie over powered by Rahzar and Fishface who take him to Stockman's lab. The masked man warns Donnie that if this retromutagen is fake then the girl would suffer the consequences. He then demonstrates by having some of the air get sucked out of April's containment chamber, indicated Donnie would be forced to watch as the girl he loves dies a slow death of suffocation.

Leo in the meantime finds Donnie is missing and realizes that he must have gone after April. So Leo, Mikey, and Splinter rush to the Shredders lair. Karai is sprayed with a gold-orange mist she remains a snake but her mental faculties are restored.

Shredder is angered and has Bebop and Rocksteady punish Donnie by beating him all the while be the air in April's containment chamber starts to slowly get sucked out of it. Karai screams at the Shredder to stop this.

When Donnie is beaten to the point where he's unable to put up much of a struggle Shredder has Raph come up and put his brother to death. Tiger Claw sees folly in this as there is no honor in slaying someone who was defenseless. Shredder begs to differ and orders the execution. The other turtles intervene Splinter takes on Shredder, Leo takes on Raph and Tiger Claw. Mikey knocks both Fishface and Rahzar aside and decides to free April and bring her to safety first since her situation is more serious.

Donnie struggles to his feet he is bullrushed by Rocksteady cracking Donnie's shell as April and Mikey look on in horror and Leo is distracted by the fact his brother is wounded leaving him open for a strike from Raph. Karai breaks out of her containment calling Rocksteady a coward. She unknowingly knocks fishface into the mutagen tank double mutating him into Aramagon. Leo uses the distraction to gather up his wounded brother and leave for safety.

[Tarris Vaal]

Maybe one situation isn't so much Donnie gets his shell beaten, but more that he tries to take matters into his own hands and tries to make a deal with the Foot in order to gain Raph back. Or maybe Raph tells Shredder that Donnie's weakness is April. Threaten her and he'll do what ever they tell him to do.

As I understand it, this is similar to what happened in IDW - that Donnie arranged a makeshift alliance with the Foot against the Kraang without the immediate agreement from his brothers or Splinter.

He's gone off and done his own thing once before without any warning (and again motivated by April).

hmm..

I would suspect Shredder would try and brainwash all the Turtles at once rather than pick them off one at a time. It just seems more efficient (and in line with his impatient trait)

I think there would be a plot to draw the Turtles out, probably using Hun as bait in a plot involving the chemical factory. Maybe deliberately leak information that they are intending on leaking the serum into the city water supply or something along those lines.

Instead, its a trap to try and catch them all and control them. During the fight, there is lots of foreshadowing and near misses but none of the Turtles actually get hit. However, during the fight, Casey takes on Hun directly. Hun gets him into a lock and tells him he had a batch made up specially with him in mind - after all the trouble he caused last time. Casey gets attacked by the Serum and mind controlled.

Later, Casey is struggling to fight the control, but ultimately fails and is coerced into leading April into a trap by Shredder. Shredder expects all the Turtles to follow to rescue her. Casey is made to attack the Turtles and deliver the message. The Turtles have to knock him out and they discover he was attacked by the serum. Donatello determines that the serum needs regular doses or it will eventually wear off.

They bring Casey to the lair to recover whilst trying to figure out what to do. Donnie is extremely worried for April, whilst Leo and Raph advise caution. Raph visits Donnie in his lab when he remembers its likely Donnie will try and go on his own. Donnie has already gone and Raph chases after him alone.

Donnie gets to the meeting point to find April there with Shredder, B+R and Tigerclaw. He has a vial of retromutagen with him he hopes to offer up in exchange for April.

Shredder is intrigued, but tells him he was a fool to expect to get away with this alone. Not wishing to risk the vial, he hands April over to him and keeps his minions back a moment. April however is mind controlled (though clearly struggling to break it). She warns Donnie to get out even as she attacks him. He refuses to leave and Shredder's minions move in to take Donnie down.

Raph makes an epic entrance, beating off the initial assault and warning Donnie to get out with April while he holds off the Foot. Shredder tells him he's a fool and Raph backtalks him - challenging him to a fight.

By this point, Mikey and Leo have also figured out whats happened and are racing to catch up. They are intercepted by Karai - mind controlled - and she keeps them back even as Leo and Mikey try to reason with her.

Shredder wont demean himself with Raph's challenge and sends in the minions. Raph's anger quickly reaches boiling point and he beats through them all, and unlike Leo actually manages to block Shredder's flanking attack. Shredder is impressed, and tells him he'll make a worthy addition - as Baxter hits Raph with the serum from a dart gun.

Donnie and April manage to escape, and Donnie goes back in to help the others. April is largely recovered and tells him she can sense Karai. Pointing him in the right direction, Donnie runs to help. Leo and Mikey are holding their own, but struggling to break past her. Donnie's arrival tips the odds and Karai is just about subdued. Leo is furious, and even Mikey is angry, but hugs Donnie anyway - glad he's alive.

They ask where's Raph.

Raph appears, Shredder emerging from the shadows from behind him. Shredder gives the instruction and Raph attacks. Flinging a sai at Donatello. Mikey intervenes and takes the hit.

Leo angrily tells Donnie to get Mikey out as they retreat. Raph is about to launch into the assault when April reappears, and throws them off with a psychic attack (something Shredder eagerly notes).

They escape and are forced to withdraw from the lair once again as Raph has been compromised.



Sorry that line of thought quickly got out of hand

[Tarris Vaal]

Sorry to double post, but I wanted to write this down before I forgot it!

Had a thought about Hun -

Long term, I was thinking how cool it would be for Hun to slowly start to usurp Shredder as head of New York's criminal element.

My idea was, given that he has wormed his way into taking control of Shredder's mind serum production that he would quietly be plotting to use this as a means to take over the Foot (or at least cripple it). He would start by annoying Baxter Stockman - who would be presumably in charge of the formula - and engineering the situation where he would have to meet with Baxter to discuss how to increase production. During the meeting, the Purple Dragons would hold him down as Hun injects the serum into Baxter, taking control of him.

With Baxter open to suggestions, Hun would use him to modify the formula, allowing only Hun access to an antidote and allowing Hun to not only neutralise the formula Shredder has, but to create another one that could be used on Shredder's minions.

Quietly Hun ambushes Rahzar and Fishface - intending to take control of them. Rahzar is injected, but his unusual nature makes him immune. Fishface however betrays Rahzar, seeing an opportunity to join with Hun willingly against Shredder. Rahzar is literally kicked off a precipice deep underground and presumed dead. Fishface blames the Turtles for his defeat when explaining to Shredder.

This incident forces B+R to take more of a central role as primary minions - particularly as Tigerclaw begins to object to use of the serum on Karai. During Karai's lucid moments, Tigerclaw even suggests he may be willing to help her escape as he can no longer stomach Shredder's methods. Karai doesnt trust him, but hasnt much choice either.

During Shredders attempt to capture the Turtles and mind control them (see idea above), Tigerclaw allows for Karai's escape with Leo/Donnie/Mikey - surprising all three of them. He literally just walks away.

B+R are attacked by Hun during the fight, who is hoping to use the confusion to inject them while Shredder is distracted. It goes wrong however when we realise that Baxter has plans of his own and deliberately made the solution so he would be almost immune to it. He has informed Shredder who has allowed Hun to get this far.

Shredder is.... disappointed with Hun and has Raph fling him into the mutagen alongside Fishface. The two combine, resulting in a shark like creature Shredder immediately has locked away 'for study'.



At least that was the original plan, but now I look at it, it mutates Hun far too early on, so presume instead to move this to a much later point (perhaps during the Turtles attempt to confront Raph and free him from the mind control)

[victory_angel]

Ciro has stated one time in an early interview that that Leo, Donnie, and Raph are to be depicted similarly to Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. Which is sort of implied through Leo's love of Space Heros. I.E. Leo idolizes Captain Ryan (Captain Kirk), The image card for Donnie on Leo's t-phone is Dr. Mindstrong (Mr. Spock) And Raph is McCoy as Leo does at one time call Raph Grundch (McCoy).

Maybe there is more coming out of that scenario. For example in Wrath of Khan there is a moment where Spock saves the enterprise from certain destruction at the cost of his own life.

We've already had Leo sacrifice himself so his brothers can get away and of course he's alright after that.

A great plot for this would be next season when the Turtles are dealing with the Fugatoid and all that stuff. Perhaps the Fugatoid suggests a way to defeat the Kraang or Triceratons once and for all unfortunately doing this task is dangerous and by Dangerous he means than amount to suicide. But it's their only option. Donnie volunteers to do this task. When the Turtles are rejoicing their victory Donnie returns to the group being supported by the fugatoid.

Raph: I don't know what you did, Donnie. But you saved us.

Donnie grins and gives a thumbs up before his eyes roll back and he falls into a dead faint. All others gasp in concern.

Mikey: Donnie!!

Fade to still frame

[victory_angel]

In the recent episode, Shredder tells Stockman that he wants him to develop a cure for Karai soon. However we all know that Stockman is going to fail at this leading into Shredder targeting Donnie.

However maybe Donnie choose to take matters into his own hands about Karai. So lets say the Turtles discover or are informed that Karai is in the Shredder's possession.

Or maybe the they overhear that Stockman is trying to develop retromutagen. So they put two and two together and realizes that Shredder must have Karai.
(extra points if it's Mikey who suggests that maybe they have Karai.)

Donnie sees April and Casey together at one point and becomes upset because he thinks April has chosen Casey. And Leo is getting irritated or pushy with him because of the unresolved tension between them and his own personal frustrations.

When Donnie realizes he has crafted a Retromutagen that could cure Karai. He at first wants to tell everyone he has a retromutagen that can restore her...but then he thinks about what he saw with Casey and April. Donnie is well aware that Leo is in love with Karai. So maybe Donnie feels that just because his dreams about being with April are just that...dreams. But Leo's dreams about being with Karai don't need be the same.

So he leaves the lair and journey's to the Shredder's lair on his own. Shredder is impressed he had the guts to do this, or rather the foolishness to do so.
Donnie tells Shredder that he knows that a cure for Karai is needed and he happens to have one.

Shredder knows Donnie would not offer this without something in return. Donnie tells Shredder that he doesn't want his brothers or father involved in whatever he is planning to do with the memory serum.

Shredder agrees to this but double crosses Donnie saying that he was far too trusting and nothing was said about letting him leave alive.

[Tarris Vaal]

I suspect it'll be either B+R who blurt out they have Karai or Fishface dropping them information (maybe even Hun, hoping to manipulate them into a fight)

Donnie is well aware that Leo is in love with Karai. So maybe Donnie feels that just because his dreams about being with April are just that...dreams. But Leo's dreams about being with Karai don't need be the same.

I actually really like the idea that Donnie might go out of his way to help Leo in this. Particularly if this was counter balanced by Leo planning to mislead the others so he could mount a solo rescue without endangering them.

If both snuck out for a similar mission without being aware of the other, and end up meeting halfway through their plan I think it would provide some good comic moments to lighten the tension - and could be made more serious if Raph and Mikey found out and had also followed them.

Shredder knows Donnie would not offer this without something in return. Donnie tells Shredder that he doesn't want his brothers or father involved in whatever he is planning to do with the memory serum.

Though I could imagine Mikey revealing they know about the serum accidentally, I dont know if its the kind of mistake Donnie would make. I would think he would probably offer a cure for Karai in exchange for something else - possibly her freedom (though he cant expect Shredder to actually allow that). Maybe, given that they know Karai's mental state is deteriorating, merely the act of giving Shredder the cure is enough, simply hoping he would use it to save her (something both Shredder and the Turtles want)

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Tarris Vaal

I suspect it'll be either B+R who blurt out they have Karai or Fishface dropping them information (maybe even Hun, hoping to manipulate them into a fight)

Yeah BB & RS or FF are likely to reveal that the Shredder has Karai to lead the Turtles into a trap in order to acquire Retromutagen for themselves. After all in the opening theme song sequence when we see Bebop and Rocksteady slamming into the Party Wagon while Donnie and Leo are shown in the front seat.

I can certainly imagine that once it becomes apparent that Bebop and Rocksteady or the Foot Clan in general know of the Retromutagen and Donnie's ability to make it. Leo would want to have Donnie placed with him or Raph (at least until Raph is placed under the mind control serum) on missions so that way he has some reliable means of preventing his brother from being captured or killed by the Foot Clan and still enabling Donnie to particpate during the missions.

However I can see Leo maybe getting overly protective and telling Donnie he would have to stay home during patrol and missions for his own safety. I could say it could be extra points in having Splinter tell Leo not to allow Donatello to go with them because of the danger he would be in every time he left the lair. But that would be just rehashing the plot where Splinter had all the Turtles stay in the lair and train for their own protection.

So I think maybe when Leo starts telling Donnie that he can't go on missions/patrol with them. He tries to be understanding about how Donnie is taking it.

Leo: Look I understand, but we can't have Shredder going after you because he believes the retromutagen can restore Karai. We've tried that before and it didn't work because her mutation wasn't normal.

Maybe Leo also tells April she needs to stay away from the lair for that same reason as her DNA is key to making Retromutagen. However I can see Splinter taking Leo aside and saying that while his reasons for doing this are in the right place, the action shows a lack of faith or trust in his brother and brothers abilities and that could have negative consequences.

Donnie reluctantly goes along with being left in the lair for short time. Unfortunately he becomes increasingly irritated with Leo's over protectiveness.

In The Pig and The Rino Bebop calls April Donnie's ex-girlfriend in that one scene where he is capturing the two of them at the cleaners. So maybe he tells Rocksteady that Donatello has a lady friend and maybe he would be willing to exchange a little retromutagen in exchange for her. So the two of them capture her...maybe Casey or have her as informant.

Casey goes to the Turtles and informs them about what happened. Leo stages a rescue mission and once again Donnie is left at the lair. Casey asks what was so special about the Retromutagen anyway after all the Foot have a science guy on their team as well, so shouldn't they be able to replicate it. Donnie then says it's not that simple...there is a key component to the Retromutagen that only he and April knew about.

Before Casey can ask what sort of component it was Donnie receives a call on his phone telling him to that his brothers have been taken down and if he doesn't arrive within the next hour with Retromutagen they would kill his brothers and the girl. On the way to aid his brothers, Donnie tells Casey that April's DNA is the key to making the Retromutagen. This makes Casey upset but before they can say more they arrive at the location where Bebop and Rocksteady are keeping his brothers and April.

Rocksteady: Ah good you bring retromutagen. So you give me container, I give back brothers and girl....yes?

Donnie: Release my family first, then the retromutagen is yours.

Rocksteady: I fall for that at Coney Island...you give me the retromutagen now or family will suffer the consequence.

[victory_angel]

The Shredder has been defeated for the time being, however his defeat also exposes the existence of the Turtles and the Mutanimals or mutants in general to the general public of New York.


Episode or season 4 begins with a public service address from the White House. We then get a shot of Bishop introducing himself and then declaring all mutants as Public Enemy #1 . As he speaks about how mutants are a threat he shows images of the Turtles, the Foot Mutants.
Maybe a recording of people who had been involved in attacks by mutants like the utility worker who was attacked by Leatherhead and the Squirrlanoids giving account of what has taken place.
Bishop then says he is sending in a man known as Dirk Savage to hunt down and apprehend every mutant starting with New York. If a mutant is sighted people must do their duty as citizens of the city and apprehend them.

Mikey: Does this guy feel like an evil version of Donnie to you, or is that just me?

Donnie has so few people he can relate to. He doesn't lord his intelligence over his brothers or at least doesn't do that intentionally. But he's so smart that his brothers feel stupid in comparison and other times in their mind it feels like he assumes he's better then them because of his intelligence.

Raph and to some extent Leo have this mindset.

Other people are impressed by what Donnie is capable of and while they don't entirely understand it they do accept that is what he has contribute to the team and mission.

April, Mikey, Casey, Splinter, and to an extent Leo.

Rockwell is the first person Donnie has had an even leveled playing field. And while they are friends they are also rivals on an intellectual level. (kinda like Harold in the IDW Comics)

Fugatoid (Confirmed and will be introduced in time) in all incarnations he's appeared in Donnie's had a good relationship with him. And I don't see that changing in this incarnation. If anything Donnie may think of him as a teacher or a mentor.

Now it comes to people who are evil or corrupt geniuses. Donnie obviously is aware that people like them do exist after all we've had Stockman and Falco. However both of those guys give off an impression that they think they are more intelligent then they actually are.

If Donnie were to have a villain that he could go toe to toe with as an equal then that would be Bishop. However Bishop isn't really a bad guy, he has a very skewed perception on things. And he also use scientific research as a form of torture as well as an excuse to perform torture. And since non-humans are not considered people to him...he has no qualms about what happens or to whom.

[Tarris Vaal]

Well running on this theory - there is the concept of dualism between two characters - that there are characters with similar but distinctly different traits and personalities who operate as 'primary rivals'

Shredder and Splinter is a good example - and you can see from Spirit quest how many of the villains pair up easily (Bradford/Mikey, Fishface/Raph)

Casey now has Hun, and April had Karai (though she shared that rivalry with Leo).

Leo is set up as being paired with Shredder - though its more of the 'final boss' than a long term rival/evil mirror.

I think you're right, that Donnie doesn't really have someone like that. Spirit quest set him up with Tigerclaw - but Tigerclaw is more of a shared villain between all the turtles than being one Turtle's specifically. B+R, Stockman, the Kraang and most other general mutants are much the same.

I'd think Bishop would make a good 'dark mirror' to both Donnie and Leo. A strategist, highly intelligent, ruthless, cunning and in a leadership position - something they both have to a degree. He shares aspects of both of them, and I think they can use a character like that to mirror the darker potential of both Donnie and Leo quite comfortably.

Especially if Shredder were to be largely defeated I think Leo especially would be riding on a high and potentially at risk of falling into arrogance. Bishop would be needed to present that.

[victory_angel]

With the Turtles more on the public radar they have to be more cautious when it comes to patrols. One patrol they are spotted by an EPF helicopter, in a effort to evade Leo tells everyone to scatter and meet up at the lair figuring they were less likely to be captured if the chopper has no idea which target to go after. The four of them split off in different directions however the chopper fires it's net launcher and catches Donnie and flies off with him.

Leo arrives at the lair while Mikey and Raph arrive not long after. Leo starts to become concerned after Donnie doesn't return and he suspects Donnie was taken captive.

Donnie wakes up in a glass panel cell. Bishop appears him asks him about his involvement in the alien invasions. Don explains that he was trying to prevent the invasion.

Bishop asks the same questions again, Donnie says he already answered. Bishop says he didn't believe Donnie's answer and he would continue to ask until Donnie told him the truth. Donnie insists he did tell him the truth. Bishop leaves the room and says he would be wise to admit his guilt.

[Tarris Vaal]

Rather than Donnie would this work better if Mikey were captured? Especially with Raph due for the Dark Raph arc, Mikey would currently be the only Turtle to not have been captured at some point (at least not independently)

Leo is captured in Follow the leader
Donnie manages to lock himself into a cell in Operation Breakout (not much I know, but considering we all agree his retromutagen puts him as extremely likely to be captured as part of the Dark Raph arc...)
Raph is due to presumably get captured shortly
April is captured fairly regularly
Casey manages to get caught in Rats and Men
Even Splinter manages to be get caught in Return to New York!

Mikey is conspicuously absent on that list

Plus I like the idea that as Mikey acts as the natural foil to Donatello, he would also act as a natural annoyance for a villain who operates in a similar way. If Bishop does turn out like a dark mirror of Donnie/Leo, Mikey acts as a great way of countering him.

Following the example you gave, imagine Mikey being the one caught in the glass cage with Bishop demanding confession.

[victory_angel]

That's all a good idea and like Donnie he would say the truth which is they were preventing the invasion from happening.

But what if they were all captured and they were all placed in separate cells sparced away from eachother so they don't entirely know that their brothers are prisoners too. Either that or their cells are next to or adjacent to each other so they can communicate with one another through a wall. I can see an allegory for the Nazi concentration camps or the Japanese internment camps in Bishops Prison bunker.

Leo and Donnie would naturally say the only involvement they had in the invasion was in preventing it.

Mikey: You've got the wrong mutant, I wasn't involved in the Kraang invasion.

and Raph would be angrily saying: You better hope this window is unbreakable, because when I get out of here I will smack the black off your jacket.

When Bishop sees them again that he tells them he's taking them to the next level of interrogation. Which is strapping Mikey down for vivisection and telling Mikey he won't administer anesthetic as it would effect his research.

Mikey then screams and says "Okay Okay, I'll confess." I ate Raph's tuna and marmalade pizza. I let Donnie take the heat when I did this....Ect."

[victory_angel]

I know people have been wanting the Good Genes arc to happen to anyone else but Donnie. I understand the reasoning, but the point of the story was that the Turtles need Donnie and it is even stated that if it happened to anyone else they would have looked to Donatello for a cure.

So have a situation where Dirk Savage is wanting to cause a demonstration as to how dangerous Mutants can be. So a Man-made mutagen is poured into the sewers and soon the city is crawling with mutant rats, bugs, and such.

Then whenever any of these creatures are spotted Dirk Savage captures them and implied that he destroys them. Bishop isn't happy about what Savage has done, particularly when it's revealed that the mutants Dirk Created are mutation carriers (i.e. kinda like the Zombie plague, you get bitten or stung by a mutant, you become one)

Shredder in the mean time (Still around despite his defeat) is rounding up these out-break mutants and wanting them controlled as his mutant soldiers.

Donnie finds a smaller species of these outbreak mutants which he studies. He has a hard time figuring it out other then the DNA of the creature being mutated. But whatever caused the mutation was different from the Kraang Mutagen. He decides he's going to have to get Dr. Rockwell in on this. Due to the outbreak one or all of the other Turtles has to accompany Donnie to the lair of the mutanimals, just in case they have any encounters.

On one such occasion Donnie is traveling back to the lair with Leo. When they are attacked by a group of outbreak mutants. Leo calls Raph and Mikey for back up and the others arrive to help as do the mutanimals. During the fight Donnie gets a gash on the arm or leg by one of them. Nothing happens because of it as far as they know. And everyone returns home none-the-wiser.

Next episode it's revealed Donnie is down with a cold. Leo mentions that Donnie has been complaining about the scratch he had received was bothering him. And they have checked it numerous times but there is no sign of infection but there is no sign that it's healing either. (as there talking focus on Donnie feverishly tossing in his bed as reddish or darkened lines extend from the bandaged area on his arm or leg.) April suggests they contact Rockwell about this just in-case. Just as they are leaving for patrol they hear Donnie scream. Leo and the others look at one another in concern and are about to go see whats wrong as the door to Donnie's bedroom flies off its hinges and a feral monster turtle stalks out. The first reaction from the turtles and Casey are to draw weapons and attack, but April gets the feeling the Creature isn't wanting to fight them.
It is chased out of the lair. Raph wants to go finish that thing off, but Mikey stops him saying that it's gone and thats what matters.

Leo notices Donnie is missing and April says she got the feeling that whatever the creature was it didn't want to fight them it was more scared and confused about what it had become. Splinter nods and says that creature and Donatello could very well be one and the same. Leo sends Raph and Mikey out to look for the creature, but don't hurt him. And be on the look out as they didn't want the Shredder to find him.

Leo has April and Casey go with him to talk to the Mutanimals. Rockwell examines the bandages that Donnie had when the transformation occurred and tells Leo that the mutagen that was causing the outbreak was at war with Donnie's already mutated DNA. April then surmises the illness Donnie was suffering from was a catalyst for the Out Break mutagen to take over Donatello's body. Rockwell agrees and says it's worse, as the Out Break mutagen continues to take control of their brother, he would slowly lose his mind within that form until the Donatello they know would be lost forever. Leo then remembers Karai when she had said she wanted them to find her so she could tell them all good-bye. And vows that he won't let his brother suffer the same fate, no matter what it takes.

Rockwell regretfully states that he is uncertain if he would be able to cure Donnie in time.

Elsewhere Raph tells Mikey that he's surprised he's not coming up with a monster name for Donnie like Tyrano-Don or Donzilla or something like that. Mikey just gives Raph an irritated look and says this is their brother and Donatello isn't a monster.