New Show coming in 2018

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Harukuro

- The writers treat women characters with respect and not simply as love interests

- Less "throw in all of the TMNT characters and the kitchen sink in the show and do nothing with them" and more "introduce characters as necessary and have them contribute to the plot"

IDW does this too, I don't understand why people act like this is exclusive to Nick.

IDW has been going out of its way to basically introduce almost every important character from every previous TMNT series.

[Harukuro]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

IDW does this too, I don't understand why people act like this is exclusive to Nick.

IDW has been going out of its way to basically introduce almost every important character from every previous TMNT series.

I agree that they do the latter, and in my opinion they usually do it very well, but not so much of the former. The Nickelodeon series is notoriously bad for how it wrote it's women characters, from Donatello acting like a pick-up artist who was creeping on April since their first meeting, to Raphael not even bothering to refer to Y'Gythgba by her real name and instead calling her by a pet name. And the only women characters who aren't love interests in the series usually end up being villains or disappear from the plot entirely

Though, I will admit IDW isn't perfect when it comes to writing relationships (especially in regards to them pairing up Angel with Woody even though he was creeping on her and she clearly did not like him, and April and Casey's current...issues), but at least they don't say that they are "maxed out" for women characters when they only have two characters. So, yeah IDW is leaps and bounds better at writing women characters in comparison to the 2k12 series.

[GoldMutant]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

IDW does this too, I don't understand why people act like this is exclusive to Nick.

The difference between IDW and Nick in terms of that is the execution of the characters. For example, despite being hinted at with Raphael, Alopex in IDW is an independent character.

With Nick, the execution of it's female characters is rather hit and miss. As I pointed out during early season 4:

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

Quick summary of this all:

Karai- Continuous shift in her character. By that, I mean no sense of real identity (unless this part of season 4 brings something new) and she serves as a plot device since her mutation, mind control did nothing to advance the story except prolong her arc.

Irma (before the Sub-Prime reveal)- Extraneous character who served no purpose in nearly any episode she appeared in.

April- I wish not to comment on it as it's a difficult assessment, very subjective.

Renet and Mona- Until either reappear, both used as relationship fodder.

Queen and Rook (Utrom Council)- Shrouded in mystery that could be further explored, only used once.

It's not difficult to see why someone would be annoyed, most of them are relationship based or not used to their full potential. Unless Shinigami leaves an impression, I reserve my doubts.

This, to my knowledge, was written a bit prior to City at War being aired. I can now add Alopex and Shinigami to the list due to their debuts.

Shinigami- Honestly, she's just there. Interesting character, but seems a bit generic for my taste. However, a playful crush by Michelangelo is present.

Alopex- I cannot fully comment on this one right now as Tale of Tiger Claw and Requiem I have not seen in full. However, she seems to be a good character, just oddly placed in the series.

In total of the main known female characters, that makes 8 (9 if you count Irma prior to the reveal). 62.5% are love interests/crushes, which are Karai (until Broken Foot if it ended it), Mona Lisa, April, Renet, and Shinigami, even if they're strong characters on their own rights. It's still a slight majority and isn't doing any favors to personally like the characters.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

You know, I never thought about ICK. I like her too much. lol She's more intelligent as a mutant and seems happy.

Didn't think much regarding Karai's mutation either, since she has control over it and her mind and seems Karai's never complained over it, so she may be done...unless she does complain about it during season 5.

Baxter, as we saw, hated his mutation, but apparently grew accustomed to it. The only henchmutants I could see wanting to be demutated at this point are Fishface and Bebop.

For me personally, I hope they do something on the Newtralizer (still surprised he wasn't mentioned during the space arc), the stuff regarding April's mother and hoping it involves Kurtzman, and hoping for the Cockroach Terminator to return in some way.

#1 is Timothy
#2 is April's mother
#3 Karai

I feel that ICK was a dumb mistakeof Mike's which the turtles would want to rectify.

Aside form that minor things. I do see those three being made into big deals and never resolved. Production on the show has finished so people saying there is a chance to still resolve certain plots need to realize there is no chance to do so now if it has not already been produced. Sure, it still can but its because it was already decided to be resolved in season 5 before the changeover.

Still like stated before and above by another,why no give the season a subtitle and overhaul making it a Redsky esque tweak instead of outright cancel and immediately replace?

[Harukuro]

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

The difference between IDW and Nick in terms of that is the execution of the characters. For example, despite being hinted at with Raphael, Alopex in IDW is an independent character.

With Nick, the execution of it's female characters is rather hit and miss.

In total of the main known female characters, that makes 8 (9 if you count Irma prior to the reveal). 62.5% are love interests/crushes, which are Karai (until Broken Foot if it ended it), Mona Lisa, April, Renet, and Shinigami, even if they're strong characters on their own rights. It's still a slight majority and isn't doing any favors to personally like the characters.

Very good points here GoldMutant; the IDW series treats women characters like characters with their own agency, desires and goals. In the 2k12 series women characters are only there to be desired by the TMNT or to serve as a plot point. I would personally argue that 2k12 has more misses than hits, when it comes to it's women characters, but I can't speak for everyone.

[GoldMutant]

Originally Posted by Harukuro

Very good points here GoldMutant; the IDW series treats women characters like characters with their own agency, desires and goals. In the 2k12 series women characters are only there to be desired by the TMNT or to serve as a plot point. I would personally argue that 2k12 has more misses than hits, when it comes to it's women characters, but I can't speak for everyone.

This thing was on the back of my mind too.

I mean, I would say primarily there's more misses too, its easily the execution which hurts them. Karai being the main example, alongside Mona Lisa. Honestly, the latter has been the biggest offender in terms of romance in the show for me, but Karai as a character comes close. Very subjective personally.

I would assume if more time were given to certain elements, they would be better. Lots of "what if" scenarios on the matters. Although we have one season left, I feel with the exception of April and both Karai and Alopex (depending on involvement), the females were just there.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Harukuro

I agree that they do the latter, and in my opinion they usually do it very well, but not so much of the former. The Nickelodeon series is notoriously bad for how it wrote it's women characters, from Donatello acting like a pick-up artist who was creeping on April since their first meeting, to Raphael not even bothering to refer to Y'Gythgba by her real name and instead calling her by a pet name. And the only women characters who aren't love interests in the series usually end up being villains or disappear from the plot entirely

Though, I will admit IDW isn't perfect when it comes to writing relationships (especially in regards to them pairing up Angel with Woody even though he was creeping on her and she clearly did not like him, and April and Casey's current...issues), but at least they don't say that they are "maxed out" for women characters when they only have two characters. So, yeah IDW is leaps and bounds better at writing women characters in comparison to the 2k12 series.

I don't see Woody creeping on Angel. It was more like he was smitten with her form first sight and didn't know how to control what he was feeling. I don't pick that up from the Nick examples like I do with this IDW situation. I know there is the Raphael/Ninjara comparisons but was completely caught off gaurad b the romantic relationship talk of Raphael and Alopex. It seems organic they would be best friends of the opposite sex. I had a two different girls I grew close to and wasn't interested in romancing them. It was close friends of the opposite sex. Yet I had romantic feelings for another girl. It was organic in both situations of progression. The whole Raphael/Alopex seemed so much more a friendship not one that evolved into romance. Also,was Angel clearly saying Woody was her boyfriend or she has given into the idea of a date with him?

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

#1 is Timothy
#2 is April's mother
#3 Karai

I feel that ICK was a dumb mistakeof Mike's which the turtles would want to rectify.

I would hope they would ask if she wants to be demutated. ^^

Aside form that minor things. I do see those three being made into big deals and never resolved. Production on the show has finished so people saying there is a chance to still resolve certain plots need to realize there is no chance to do so now if it has not already been produced. Sure, it still can but its because it was already decided to be resolved in season 5 before the changeover.

Still like stated before and above by another,why no give the season a subtitle and overhaul making it a Redsky esque tweak instead of outright cancel and immediately replace?

As for Karai, what can they do? As I mentioned, she has control of her mind and her mutation. She's never shown contempt for it while in her right mind...it would seem out of nowhere to bring up how she hates her mutation, unless she starts showing side effects from it.

Timothy I'm split on. The writers already gave themselves a way out regarding him...it'll take about 70 years for him to thaw out.

[CyberCubed]

Yeah, I don't think Karai cares about being de-mutated entirely. It doesn't matter anymore.

[THGhost]

Reckon we'll get to see some footage for this new series once the current series has ended, or a little before?

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by THGhost

Reckon we'll get to see some footage for this new series once the current series has ended, or a little before?

Perhaps a sneak preview of the successor show at the end of the series finale for 2012. It was done at the end of the Batman:Brave and The Bold finale for Beware The Batman.

[Harukuro]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I don't see Woody creeping on Angel. It was more like he was smitten with her form first sight and didn't know how to control what he was feeling...Also,was Angel clearly saying Woody was her boyfriend or she has given into the idea of a date with him?

I was mostly referring to the mistletoe scene where Woody went to kiss Angel despite the very clear verbal and non-verbal indications that she didn't want a kiss (see attached images). What's especially noticeable is that she's pushing him away from her and eventually dumps eggnog on her. Also, he probably should control how he's feeling, and how he's acting, because this stuff is straight up sexual harassment.

But, then in the next issue we have Raph asking Angel about Woody, noticeably after she talks with Raph about Alopex, and she says "Pizza guy? He's a'ight, I guess. Kind of a dweeb but kinda cute at the same time. Gives me lots of free pizza, though. I dig that."

I can safely say that most women would not go from "Get away from me you creep" to "Aw he's kindof cute" that quickly, especially when it involves a guy who can't take a hint about boundaries (though a lot of male writers don't seem to realize this). To say this was one of the more disappointing moments in the recent IDW comics for me would be an understatement; Angel deserves better than being paired up with a creep in such a lazy display of writing.

(Also, I apologize for going off topic, this subject is just something that really bothered me so I had to write it out)

[CyberCubed]

Remember, people, it's not over until the fat lady sings.

[MikeandRaph87]

Perhaps he cooled it and took the idea that Angel knew he was attracted to her after that incident and he showed it afterwards. Casey explained Woody meant no harm and was sorry and she was flattered that Woody was that into her which she may not be used to. None of that could have happened between issues or all of it could have. That was the explanation I gave it when reading it.

[Coola Yagami]

Kinda weird paring. Most of the time kick ass fighter types how for other kick ass fighter types. I kinda don't see Woody fighting crime alongside her, ya know?

And I wouldn't compare comics with cartoons when it comes to using characters. Sure IDW has tons of characters but they have more time to use them, and extra one shot specials devoted to the extra characters, even when separate comic book series devoted to the other characters. In comics it's easier to give Hun and Karai their own one shot or bebop and Rocksteady their own mini series than devoting an episode to them on the tv show.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

And I wouldn't compare comics with cartoons when it comes to using characters. Sure IDW has tons of characters but they have more time to use them, and extra one shot specials devoted to the extra characters, even when separate comic book series devoted to the other characters. In comics it's easier to give Hun and Karai their own one shot or bebop and Rocksteady their own mini series than devoting an episode to them on the tv show.

If anything IDW sticks a little too closely to formula, almost all the big plotlines and characters in that series are old stories with a few new twists. The only real brand new stuff is the Pantheon and the addition of Old Hob.

[DevilSpooky]

Timothy is done, his story is done, he'll take years to unfreeze, and when he does Donnie will demutate him if he's still alive, that's it, nothing to have closure about, no way they'll jump X years into the future just to see Donnie cure him and say "sorry about that kid" anyone expecting anything more then that is seriously delusional.

About the new show, I have a bad feeling about this, I'm expecting a "monster of the week" type of thing with Sponge Bob-like comedy and Tean Titans Go style art, nothing more, no overall story arc, no character progression, nothing at all but random jokes and basic "plots".

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

If anything IDW sticks a little too closely to formula, almost all the big plotlines and characters in that series are old stories with a few new twists. The only real brand new stuff is the Pantheon and the addition of Old Hob.

IDW follows a formula? Sure some versions do, but not IDW. Very little has been predicted and the IDW has continued to not only keep interest but anticipation of what to come!

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Kinda weird paring. Most of the time kick ass fighter types how for other kick ass fighter types. I kinda don't see Woody fighting crime alongside her, ya know?

And I wouldn't compare comics with cartoons when it comes to using characters. Sure IDW has tons of characters but they have more time to use them, and extra one shot specials devoted to the extra characters, even when separate comic book series devoted to the other characters. In comics it's easier to give Hun and Karai their own one shot or bebop and Rocksteady their own mini series than devoting an episode to them on the tv show.

True but they could at least show us backstories to other characters, hell we learned a lot about Xever's history in Baxter's gambit and that lasted for like 2 minutes.

@GoldMutant I would also add that they turned Karai into a Damsel after season 2.

[turtlefan27]

So i guess we'll be getting new action figures