New preview on official site! - Page 2

**Karpo_007** · 11-22-2002, 05:55 PM

Umm.. You are really out of it...

**Karpo_007** · 11-22-2002, 06:12 PM

I guess i need to make few things clear here. TMNT was created by Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman. The Mirage universe is the original one and best in all ways. Because The comic book became so popular they sold licence to use their characters in a cartoon. The first season was great but after that the shows quality went down year after year. There was nothing new in it, same plot was told million times. I wonder how many episodes you have even watched.

Because of the old cartoon, TMNT is generaly tought as a "kiddies thing". It wasn't that originally, and it isn't that nowdays with the new comic book. Should I give the show credit for using same plot over and over again? I think not. But I will give credit to the First season. That was really the best animated TMNT there ever has been. But it only lasted for 5 episodes.

Why should Peter Laird be jealous to the cartoon? It was a toy commercial like most of the 80's shows. It made kids buy toys and other things with letters TMNT on it. Because the cartoon became so popular, everyone thinks TMNT as a past childrengs thing. That can be bad for any future TMNT projects.

~~Reznorite420~~ · 11-22-2002, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anarchistguy

OOOOOOOHHHHH YEEEEAAAAH!

It's exactly what I hoped it would be. No "ass-clown Shredder", no Krang, no moronic Bebop & Rockstedy and ESPECIALLY no CHANNEL 6 CREW(Irma, Vernon and Burne!!!) This show's going to RULE!

CARTOON HATER!!!!

Just wait for the wrath of NTCF....

~~Reznorite420~~ · 11-22-2002, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karpo_007

This time he is one of the guys who calls the shots, and makes sure that This show wont turn up like the old show did.

For those who favor the comics, they might be on your side. People like me on the other hand, ones who heard about the TV show first before ever knowing of the original comic (i.e. NTCF), would love to bash you for saying that. But I won't, because I'm more logical than that. Besides, I don't want to left out the next time you state a MAME netgame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karpo_007

After that, will come the Redsky episodes, and I have heard that in them, the action is brought back and it's darker. I await that day I finnish the euro season...

Season 8 was awesome, but the last 2 seasons get rather boring and uninteresting once Dregg comes into the picture. It's just not the same.

*Anarchistguy* · 11-22-2002, 09:09 PM

Relax, Reznorite! I hate the cartoon because everyone thinks TMNT
are just for kids, thank you very much old cartoon. Besides, I only liked
the 1987 and 1994(red sky) seasons.

Raphael-sama · 11-22-2002, 09:27 PM

Well, the show must have done SOMETHING right, or most if not all of us wouldn't even be here. And it wasn't the first season, because most people never got to see that one. (I know I sure as hell didn't.)

So the new cartoon's taking from Mirage. Great! Huzzah! Be my guest. I'm gonna watch it, and I'm gonna enjoy it. But the original cartoon, "mundane" plots and all, will always remain as one of the best cartoons EVA. Boognish.

-Badabing.

*Eye of Sarnath* · 11-22-2002, 09:30 PM

This new cartoon could change that.

Shellfox · 11-22-2002, 09:33 PM

With out the old toon I probly wouldn't care about the guys, so I'll never really bash it, but will compare all shows to it.
With everything I've read, I'm still a bit worried but its my nature, how things sound on paper and how they appear on screen can be radically diffrent. And this is just their views, we need to get some fan to see a bit of the scripts to know if the shows have potentail, it not like the people in charge are going to tell us the show is crap.
Any way Pray for the best but expect the worst

*Jephael* · 11-22-2002, 10:31 PM

The way I see it, each TMNT universe is equally good and as long as the main idea always remains the same, I'll be all for it!

**Kali** · 11-22-2002, 10:43 PM

Sweet! Man, a good day at work and I get to come home and read about the new cartoon show. Life don't get any sweeter. Well, maybe if Raph suddenly appeared in my room tonight...

*ahem* Anyway. Now that I've got a good idea about the basis of the show, I am so looking forward to it. I'm seeing a mood and atmosphere akin to Gargoyles. Which, by the way, was targeted at the same age group as the new TMNT show, and had great action, and even blood.

How much do you think it would cost to get a cameo as one of April's tenents?

Newton Gimmick · 11-22-2002, 10:56 PM

Raphael-sama you make some great points in one of your first posts, and it is very obvious Peter Laird is a bit upset that the cartoon was bigger then any of his stuff. Not that I wouldn't be either, but Kevin Eastman, likes and appreciates the cartoon, so it shows you the difference.

Karpo...No offense, but you weren't in the US when the Turtles craze was around, and while it was big worldwide, the craze here is what made TNMT and its the whole reason its here now. Not a few failed comic books.

I love the Mirage universe, and it is cool. Not the best by any means, but it is the most adult oriented. Like I said before 80% if not higher, of the TNMT fanbase is off the old cartoons and figures!

Peter Laird, Mirage and even Karpo, may not like it, but its the facts. Deal with it.

In addition, the cartoon's characters, not because thye were kiddie, but because they were cool, is what made the show popular. Laird should have noted that and introduced Rocksteady and Bebop to the new show, and instead of making them so stupid, made them tough.

I like this new Mirage based cartoons concepts so far, but we have yet to see any episodes so you can't say its all cool, when it may not last. And like I said, for it to prove its dominance over the old cartoon, it would have to run for many many seasons, and while i hope it does, I doubt it will.

TNMT was the last cool thing Americans had. We had GI Joe, He-Man and Transformers, before the god awful days of the new stuff (Pokemon, Yu Gi Oh, and all that Japanamation play with trading cards and balls ****) came around. Most of the really good Cartoons of old came from toylines. And while TNMT was based off of a comic, and a good comic, the toyline is what created a awesome cartoon, that MILLIONS of kids, and adults liked.

Did aiming the storys at kids, kill them in the end. Maybe so. But there is endless adult humor and storylines wrapped in the old cartoon as well.

And everyone has their views. Both sides could argue til their blue in the face which is better, the Archie/Cartoon universe, or the Mirage/Image universe.

Both have solid points:
Mirage Universe created TNMT
Had darker storylines, more real battles and death.

Cartoon and Toys made most of the fanbase, and is bigger of a universe.
Had lots more marketable characters.

In my comics, I combine all the storylines and universes together to make a central universe that borrows from everything. Not to toot my own horn, but if TNMT did that, it'd be the only way to make everyone happy. But with Laird totally in control now, that won't happen. HOWEVER......

I expect good things from the new TNMT, and most people are excited, old cartoon fans and old comic fans alike. But the comic fans shouldn't bash the cartoon fans, or vice versa. TMNT would not be around if BOTH universes hadn't existed....And that is the only REAL fact.

*Jephael* · 11-22-2002, 11:00 PM

Newton, I couldn't have said it any better myself.

I love yer comic!

Aztec General · 11-22-2002, 11:07 PM

That preview was written the exact same way that I would've written it if I was Laird. Karpo's right Laird has every reason under the sun to dislike the original cartoon. If you have read the Mirage comics he's written you'd know why.

*Jephael* · 11-22-2002, 11:11 PM

I remember when Neil had that 7 minute clip of "I Love 1988" when they interviewed Eastman, Laird and even Rob Paulson and Cam Clarke.
Peter himself had complained about how the fighting sequences became more slapstick, and Rob complained that the animation itself became rather flat.

Newton Gimmick · 11-22-2002, 11:34 PM

Ah its a never ending battle, but if you like TNMT, you should like all universes or just one, but don't go posing how the Comic was better, blah blah, cause its all in ones personal taste.

Sparvid · 11-23-2002, 05:28 AM

Why is the cartoon and the Mirage comics the only things that gets discussed?
I came into TMNT through the Archie comics. The show was way too much "kiddified" for my taste. And comics can you have in your room and read whenever you want, the show maybe you were able to catch once a month... (The same thing with Transformers, I really don't get the people who consider the cartoon o be more interesting then the comics. No offence if anyone here does

)

I haven't seen any episode with Slash, for example, but I'm pretty sure that he was a lot less interesting then his Archie counterpart.

And why shouldn't Laird have the right to be irritated at the old cartoon. Here he goes and co-creates some really cool characters, and mostly because of the cartoon, 99% of people you were to ask on the street thinks they always have been those "kid versions"...

Imagine if the old cartoon had been more like the Archies...

*Jephael* · 11-23-2002, 05:45 AM

That's how alot of people wish it was, including myself. I bet if they had taken more of the Archie storylines like say "The Future Shark Trilogy", the show would've looked alot better.

**Karpo_007** · 11-23-2002, 05:58 AM

Newton, I wonder have you ever read any Mirage comics. I can see you don't know much about it. First of all, It was Most suuccesfull blackwhite comic book of the 80's. He didnt like the cartoon because it became really boring. Like I said I watched over 150 episodes of it in past three months. Im sure you haven't.

Sure, it's the cartoon that brought TMNT to masses. And that's the bad thing. Everyone nowdays considers TMNT as children's thing. And again, Peter Laird should be Jealous fort the succes of old cartoon? You probably think he should be jealous to Pokemon too. TMNT wont ever be that popular.

And yes, I started with the cartoon too. I loved it when i was 7. Kids that at that age don't care if the plot is same in every episode, there are robots, and mutants, they just think it's cool. If you are older, you can easily see how boring the show becomes around 4:th season.

You revealed your lack of knowledge when you said few failed comic books. Also you probably think Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman originally did it to make money? They did it because they wanted to publish a comic book and they were suprised by it's success.

You can defend the cartoon all you want, I still dont believe you watched so many episodes in past few months as I have. If you watched the show as a kid, I can why are so eager to defend it, but if you watch it again, older, you can see that it's just like other 80's cartoon. Like it or not, they make the shows to sell Toys. In case you didn't know, it was Playmates who Fund the show.

Most of you who say cartoon is better than mirage have probably read less than 10 issues. You really dont know what you are talking about. Everyone can have their own opinnions, I respect that, but the comment that Peter Laird should be jealous? It makes me laugh.

**Karpo_007** · 11-23-2002, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jephael

I remember when Neil had that 7 minute clip of "I Love 1988" when they interviewed Eastman, Laird and even Rob Paulson and Cam Clarke.
Peter himself had complained about how the fighting sequences became more slapstick, and Rob complained that the animation itself became rather flat.

Thats true. I have always said that fight scenes died after first season.

Shellfox · 11-23-2002, 06:45 AM

Look I've read a few
Mirage comics, not as many as most I grant but a few and while they were thought provoking, insightful and intence, Visually speaking they sucked to me. You can have the greatest stories in the world and if you have unappealing art work it can be killed.
Yes as of late I've pulled out a lot of my old videos and I don't see the TMNT as that bad, yes it was marked to kids, but they had the money, it was fun and dispite my own dislike of the last season, it had some really cool elements that I wish had continued. Yes seeing a more adult TMNT is fun but if you lose asspects of the comidy you loes the heart of the show.
Yes I wish the show had been more like the Archie comic, bring Ninjara in, some how get the Mutanals, get some really cool story arcs going, maybe redo Lotus and a few others, the show would have been cool. Honestly I hope they mix a bit of Jackie Chan Adventures fighting style to the show, a hybred action comidy at times, not all the time but for a change a pace.
Look to each their own but don't go bashing what in essence made the TMNT the force they are

11-22-2002, 09:30 PM	#27
Eye of Sarnath Mad Scientist Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NY Posts: 1,590	This new cartoon could change that. __________________ "When I was real small I heard about this thing called the decline of civilization... and I decided that it was something I would like to become involved in." -George Carlin

11-22-2002, 10:31 PM	#29
Jephael That whack job behind you Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Carlisle, Pennsylvania Posts: 8,143	The way I see it, each TMNT universe is equally good and as long as the main idea always remains the same, I'll be all for it! __________________ "I like it. Simple, but effective!" Raphael; The Mean Machines - 1988

11-22-2002, 11:00 PM	#32
Jephael That whack job behind you Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Carlisle, Pennsylvania Posts: 8,143	Newton, I couldn't have said it any better myself. I love yer comic! __________________ "I like it. Simple, but effective!" Raphael; The Mean Machines - 1988

11-22-2002, 11:07 PM	#33
Aztec General Mad Scientist Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,437	That preview was written the exact same way that I would've written it if I was Laird. Karpo's right Laird has every reason under the sun to dislike the original cartoon. If you have read the Mirage comics he's written you'd know why. __________________

11-22-2002, 11:11 PM	#34
Jephael That whack job behind you Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Carlisle, Pennsylvania Posts: 8,143	I remember when Neil had that 7 minute clip of "I Love 1988" when they interviewed Eastman, Laird and even Rob Paulson and Cam Clarke. Peter himself had complained about how the fighting sequences became more slapstick, and Rob complained that the animation itself became rather flat. __________________ "I like it. Simple, but effective!" Raphael; The Mean Machines - 1988

11-22-2002, 05:55 PM	#21
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Umm.. You are really out of it...

11-22-2002, 06:12 PM	#22
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	I guess i need to make few things clear here. TMNT was created by Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman. The Mirage universe is the original one and best in all ways. Because The comic book became so popular they sold licence to use their characters in a cartoon. The first season was great but after that the shows quality went down year after year. There was nothing new in it, same plot was told million times. I wonder how many episodes you have even watched. Because of the old cartoon, TMNT is generaly tought as a "kiddies thing". It wasn't that originally, and it isn't that nowdays with the new comic book. Should I give the show credit for using same plot over and over again? I think not. But I will give credit to the First season. That was really the best animated TMNT there ever has been. But it only lasted for 5 episodes. Why should Peter Laird be jealous to the cartoon? It was a toy commercial like most of the 80's shows. It made kids buy toys and other things with letters TMNT on it. Because the cartoon became so popular, everyone thinks TMNT as a past childrengs thing. That can be bad for any future TMNT projects.

11-22-2002, 09:09 PM	#25
Anarchistguy Mad Scientist Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Canada (This country is too peaceful, Something's up...) Posts: 2,137	Relax, Reznorite! I hate the cartoon because everyone thinks TMNT are just for kids, thank you very much old cartoon. Besides, I only liked the 1987 and 1994(red sky) seasons.

11-22-2002, 09:27 PM	#26
Raphael-sama Foot Soldier Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Cah-nah-dah Posts: 155	Well, the show must have done SOMETHING right, or most if not all of us wouldn't even be here. And it wasn't the first season, because most people never got to see that one. (I know I sure as hell didn't.) So the new cartoon's taking from Mirage. Great! Huzzah! Be my guest. I'm gonna watch it, and I'm gonna enjoy it. But the original cartoon, "mundane" plots and all, will always remain as one of the best cartoons EVA. Boognish. -Badabing.

11-22-2002, 09:33 PM	#28
Shellfox Mad Scientist Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,234	With out the old toon I probly wouldn't care about the guys, so I'll never really bash it, but will compare all shows to it. With everything I've read, I'm still a bit worried but its my nature, how things sound on paper and how they appear on screen can be radically diffrent. And this is just their views, we need to get some fan to see a bit of the scripts to know if the shows have potentail, it not like the people in charge are going to tell us the show is crap. Any way Pray for the best but expect the worst

11-22-2002, 10:43 PM	#30
Kali Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: California! Posts: 11,101	Sweet! Man, a good day at work and I get to come home and read about the new cartoon show. Life don't get any sweeter. Well, maybe if Raph suddenly appeared in my room tonight... ahem Anyway. Now that I've got a good idea about the basis of the show, I am so looking forward to it. I'm seeing a mood and atmosphere akin to Gargoyles. Which, by the way, was targeted at the same age group as the new TMNT show, and had great action, and even blood. How much do you think it would cost to get a cameo as one of April's tenents?

11-22-2002, 10:56 PM	#31
Newton Gimmick Mad Scientist Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 1,154	Raphael-sama you make some great points in one of your first posts, and it is very obvious Peter Laird is a bit upset that the cartoon was bigger then any of his stuff. Not that I wouldn't be either, but Kevin Eastman, likes and appreciates the cartoon, so it shows you the difference. Karpo...No offense, but you weren't in the US when the Turtles craze was around, and while it was big worldwide, the craze here is what made TNMT and its the whole reason its here now. Not a few failed comic books. I love the Mirage universe, and it is cool. Not the best by any means, but it is the most adult oriented. Like I said before 80% if not higher, of the TNMT fanbase is off the old cartoons and figures! Peter Laird, Mirage and even Karpo, may not like it, but its the facts. Deal with it. In addition, the cartoon's characters, not because thye were kiddie, but because they were cool, is what made the show popular. Laird should have noted that and introduced Rocksteady and Bebop to the new show, and instead of making them so stupid, made them tough. I like this new Mirage based cartoons concepts so far, but we have yet to see any episodes so you can't say its all cool, when it may not last. And like I said, for it to prove its dominance over the old cartoon, it would have to run for many many seasons, and while i hope it does, I doubt it will. TNMT was the last cool thing Americans had. We had GI Joe, He-Man and Transformers, before the god awful days of the new stuff (Pokemon, Yu Gi Oh, and all that Japanamation play with trading cards and balls ****) came around. Most of the really good Cartoons of old came from toylines. And while TNMT was based off of a comic, and a good comic, the toyline is what created a awesome cartoon, that MILLIONS of kids, and adults liked. Did aiming the storys at kids, kill them in the end. Maybe so. But there is endless adult humor and storylines wrapped in the old cartoon as well. And everyone has their views. Both sides could argue til their blue in the face which is better, the Archie/Cartoon universe, or the Mirage/Image universe. Both have solid points: Mirage Universe created TNMT Had darker storylines, more real battles and death. Cartoon and Toys made most of the fanbase, and is bigger of a universe. Had lots more marketable characters. In my comics, I combine all the storylines and universes together to make a central universe that borrows from everything. Not to toot my own horn, but if TNMT did that, it'd be the only way to make everyone happy. But with Laird totally in control now, that won't happen. HOWEVER...... I expect good things from the new TNMT, and most people are excited, old cartoon fans and old comic fans alike. But the comic fans shouldn't bash the cartoon fans, or vice versa. TMNT would not be around if BOTH universes hadn't existed....And that is the only REAL fact.

11-22-2002, 11:34 PM	#35
Newton Gimmick Mad Scientist Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 1,154	Ah its a never ending battle, but if you like TNMT, you should like all universes or just one, but don't go posing how the Comic was better, blah blah, cause its all in ones personal taste.

11-23-2002, 05:28 AM	#36
Sparvid Stone Warrior Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Östersund, Sweden Posts: 860	Why is the cartoon and the Mirage comics the only things that gets discussed? I came into TMNT through the Archie comics. The show was way too much "kiddified" for my taste. And comics can you have in your room and read whenever you want, the show maybe you were able to catch once a month... (The same thing with Transformers, I really don't get the people who consider the cartoon o be more interesting then the comics. No offence if anyone here does ) I haven't seen any episode with Slash, for example, but I'm pretty sure that he was a lot less interesting then his Archie counterpart. And why shouldn't Laird have the right to be irritated at the old cartoon. Here he goes and co-creates some really cool characters, and mostly because of the cartoon, 99% of people you were to ask on the street thinks they always have been those "kid versions"... Imagine if the old cartoon had been more like the Archies...

11-23-2002, 05:45 AM	#37
Jephael That whack job behind you Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Carlisle, Pennsylvania Posts: 8,143	That's how alot of people wish it was, including myself. I bet if they had taken more of the Archie storylines like say "The Future Shark Trilogy", the show would've looked alot better. __________________ "I like it. Simple, but effective!" Raphael; The Mean Machines - 1988

11-23-2002, 05:58 AM	#38
Karpo_007 Inactive Moderator Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 8,798	Newton, I wonder have you ever read any Mirage comics. I can see you don't know much about it. First of all, It was Most suuccesfull blackwhite comic book of the 80's. He didnt like the cartoon because it became really boring. Like I said I watched over 150 episodes of it in past three months. Im sure you haven't. Sure, it's the cartoon that brought TMNT to masses. And that's the bad thing. Everyone nowdays considers TMNT as children's thing. And again, Peter Laird should be Jealous fort the succes of old cartoon? You probably think he should be jealous to Pokemon too. TMNT wont ever be that popular. And yes, I started with the cartoon too. I loved it when i was 7. Kids that at that age don't care if the plot is same in every episode, there are robots, and mutants, they just think it's cool. If you are older, you can easily see how boring the show becomes around 4:th season. You revealed your lack of knowledge when you said few failed comic books. Also you probably think Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman originally did it to make money? They did it because they wanted to publish a comic book and they were suprised by it's success. You can defend the cartoon all you want, I still dont believe you watched so many episodes in past few months as I have. If you watched the show as a kid, I can why are so eager to defend it, but if you watch it again, older, you can see that it's just like other 80's cartoon. Like it or not, they make the shows to sell Toys. In case you didn't know, it was Playmates who Fund the show. Most of you who say cartoon is better than mirage have probably read less than 10 issues. You really dont know what you are talking about. Everyone can have their own opinnions, I respect that, but the comment that Peter Laird should be jealous? It makes me laugh.

11-23-2002, 06:45 AM	#40
Shellfox Mad Scientist Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,234	Look I've read a few Mirage comics, not as many as most I grant but a few and while they were thought provoking, insightful and intence, Visually speaking they sucked to me. You can have the greatest stories in the world and if you have unappealing art work it can be killed. Yes as of late I've pulled out a lot of my old videos and I don't see the TMNT as that bad, yes it was marked to kids, but they had the money, it was fun and dispite my own dislike of the last season, it had some really cool elements that I wish had continued. Yes seeing a more adult TMNT is fun but if you lose asspects of the comidy you loes the heart of the show. Yes I wish the show had been more like the Archie comic, bring Ninjara in, some how get the Mutanals, get some really cool story arcs going, maybe redo Lotus and a few others, the show would have been cool. Honestly I hope they mix a bit of Jackie Chan Adventures fighting style to the show, a hybred action comidy at times, not all the time but for a change a pace. Look to each their own but don't go bashing what in essence made the TMNT the force they are