Best fighter of th Turtles?

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Ryona

Oy... Back to your old habits, eh, Heretic? Remember what happened those months ago when you trolled around through threads? As I recall, people didn't like it and it nearly got you a warning.

So far he seems to be keeping a cool head, and just presenting his facts.

You're extremely biased. Just deal with it. I may give a bit of extra attention to Leo, but you my friend... when it comes to over-gratifying a favorite character, you take the cake.

Um....I dunna....anyone says 2 cross word about leo and they get a textual reaming...

Your Palladium stats may hold some weight, but so does just about any TMNT stats that have been legally distributed into any TMNT product.

Here's a screen cap of recent stats for the boys.

As you can see, it doesn't totally match the RPG stats yet it's just as valid if it's legally displayed in a TMNT game.

I'll give you that, any TMNT profile would be considered valid...Maybe we should take a look at more than 2, compile a hard and fast "over all strengths and weaknesses" chart.

And like I said, there are mathematical errors in the Palladium book. Certain stats don't add up with the skill bonuses and such, so, really, the info is not completely reliable.

I'd like to see this....could you post these errors please?

And yes, I feel you abuse your martial arts knowledge because you seem to use it only to highlight Mikey and cast the rest of the boys in his shadow.

And you've often used certain things to show how Leo trumps all in more than just fighting skill...and have made it clear that those who don't agree are obviously ignorant. He's just stating his thoughts....

I think Mikey is a great character. Really, I do. I infact even created a special thread for him in the art forum (in here) because I honestly do feel he's the most under-rated of the four.
But when you post such ridiculously biased posts of Mikey like you seem to always do, it really doesn't do him much justice as you may think. All it does is just over-glorify him, and people can see right through that.
I'm all for supporting Mikey, but if you continue to keep raising Mikey on this fanciful pedestal you've created for him, I will not hesitate to knock him off the highhorse you've carefuly put him on.

The kid won the Battle Nexus Turnament, he's show he can handle a fight with a legitimate defeate of Kluh, as you said Mikey is underrated (as for most underrated I'd go with Donnie...hey there's a new thread idea...) Mikey might be better than Leo as an improvizational fighter, but in a strategy...Leo trumps Mike. I think we've neglected to take on certain styles of fighting...like who's the best tatitisian? Who's the most powerful? If we have then...whoops....but that could be something to keep the thread alive aside from 2nd best...

With that said, I feel we should continue with our discussion on who's the second best fighter since Anarky was helpful enough to give us the official heads up that Leo is indeed the best. End of story with that. If there is anymore arguments on who ranks as the number one fighter, I will see to it that this thread gets locked.

That seems a bit harsh...and like a psudo-abuse of the powers give you...He may be biased....but having a favorite turtle causes us all to be biased....

As for second best....I dunna....I think aside from maybe Leo, they are all equally matched, depending once again on the environment....

[NameGoesHere1066]

I voted for Raphael. I think he is the best potenticial fighter of the bunch. He may be the hot head but if he ever got over those issues and combined that with his lethal tendacies he could be a force. Plus I don't know why Leo has gotten so many votes. Yeah he's skilled and dedicated but he's has K.Oed Leo twise in the comics and won the dual they fought in the new movie.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

For some reason this thread reminded me of another thread, one in which they were talking about what other fighting styles could the turtles learn to use.

I think if Raphael trained himself (I don't know the reason, so I should reword it to 'if he was trained in') in something like Aikido. That would be nice and Raphael would definately be the best fighter of the group (I guess honestly you could say that for any of the turtles...but I do think this style fits Raphael to a T and it would be an explosive combination of power...with a little bit of fluidness that Raph needs to make him a little bit better)

And for those who don't know what Aikido is: Just picture these 2 sequences from a movie with Raphael in the place of the 'lead guy'. (They both even have Brooklyn accents lol )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMu2xNBpyQc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8ixgdDPufA

So I guess bottom line: A) Raph with Aikido would be awesome
B) Raph is the best fighter of the group...at least in my opinion

Again I think it'll all go down to whichever is your personal fave...cause you can always give a reason that they could reach a 'potential' they haven't gotten to yet.

[Evenstar227]

Originally Posted by raphroehler2003

So I guess bottom line: A) Raph with Aikido would be awesome

I thought aikido was a nonviolent martial art? That doesn't strike me as something Raph would want to excel at. Sounds like it'd be more up Leo or Don's alley than Raph's.

And now for something completely different...what about the fact that they were regular turtles before being mutated? Wouldn't that mean that they'd have similar natural abilities across the board? Granted, turtles are not known for their acrobatic agility (though common musk turtles are surprisingly good climbers). I mean, look at monkeys. Monkey to monkey, they have the same natural abilities. What I'm trying to say is that leaving personality based traits like focus, determination, love of training, etc, aside, they should all be equal. Or am I way off base here? (I only mention this in regards to arguments over who is the fastest, most agile, blah blah blah. Strongest isn't a factor either b/c you can increase that by lifting weights.)

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

If you talk about traditional martial arts and ninjutsu, it's Leonardo, of course.

[triplexxx]

Well, being a best "overall" fighter is more than just about following tradition.

[TheUltimateShredhead]

It's stated in both ot and nt that leo is the best skilled in the martial arts they practice ot(ninjitsu) nt(bushido).

[triplexxx]

What exactly do you mean by "OT (ninjitsu) NT (Bushido)"? In both series, their martial arts practice is ninjitsu; Bushido is an honor code, not a martial arts practice, it revolves around what purpose the turtles serve using their martial arts skill, and they're all equal in honor because they all serve the same purpose.
Also, yes Leonarod is said to be most skilled/basic-strategist, but the other turtles have their individual advantages too, Raphael's being strength, Michaelangelo's being speed, and Donatello's being technical-strategist/acrobatics. None of these individual advantages however are synonymous to being "overall best".

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Leonardo is probably the best of the four, with Raphael coming in second. What probably causes Leonardo to be better than Raphael is that Raphael's anger would probably become a distraction.

[TheUltimateShredhead]

Originally Posted by triplexxx

What exactly do you mean by "OT (ninjitsu) NT (Bushido)"? In both series, their martial arts practice is ninjitsu; Bushido is an honor code, not a martial arts practice, it revolves around what purpose the turtles serve using their martial arts skill, and they're all equal in honor because they all serve the same purpose.
Also, yes Leonarod is said to be most skilled/basic-strategist, but the other turtles have their individual advantages too, Raphael's being strength, Michaelangelo's being speed, and Donatello's being technical-strategist/acrobatics. None of these individual advantages however are synonymous to being "overall best".

I guess i got misguided throw the series, im sorry if i declared something i don't got a clue about

[odupianist]

when it comes to natural ability, Mikey has them all beat. as far as training, Leonardo. If Mikey trained as hard as Leo does, he'd be able to kick Leo's butt I bet ya.

[Buslady]

I'm biased...I don't hafta say who I voted.

Right now it seems that my bad boy is a better fighter with Leo going bonkers with his little failure issue.

Originally Posted by Sewer Bull

I wish there was a "Who's the best lover" poll. Sadly, no chances for that.

Oh I'm soooooo tempted to post one

[Buslady]

Originally Posted by trexmaster

The worst (be warned, the following will be politically incorrect) is most likely either Donatello or Raphael. Donatello's weapon, though versatile, isn't particularly powerful. And although Raphael can stab with his sais, he's too stupid, like a brawling animal, to be an effective fighter.

Are you saying that Raph is a thoughtless, brutal animal? Raph's actually not a horrible fighter at all, he isn't the quickest and has a short temper but he is the strongest physically...he just isn't into the perfection, grace and discipline required of the arts; he gets the job done any way he sees fit. If he obsessed himself like Leo is, he could be just as or more effective than Leo...it's just not his thing to do all that.

I agree with practicly everything Buslady said. Sure Raph is too rash and too unstable to be at the level of Leo and Mikey, but he's certainly not stupid. Infact, ironicly, as Leo get's more outta wack in season four, Raph seems to mellow out, cool down, and mature more and more. Raph is certainly becoming quite the fighter now.
Though Leo is still an amazing fighter when he's all super focused and intence with his "in your face" attitude. I would say that he's infact even better when he's in that state.
And I don't see Donnie as so hopeless either. Sure he's not as athletic as his brothers, but he sure as Hell makes up for it with his intellect. Fighting is not just about the body, it's about the mind too as well as the spirit.

And believe me, the bo is very powerful. It's also very handy and it has the superior reach.

[Blondus]

Originally Posted by Ryona

And I don't see Donnie as so hopeless either. Sure he's not as athletic as his brothers, but he sure as Hell makes up for it with his intellect. Fighting is not just about the body, it's about the mind too as well as the spirit.

And believe me, the bo is very powerful. It's also very handy and it has the superior reach.

ditto.

The bo staff is actually one of the most practical of the four turtles' weapons. It has long range, can easily be handled as for fighting off people at both sides of you, it reaches extreme speed when swung (thus hitting you with friggin uncomprehedable force (you are actually thrown off your feet)), and, it is the best weapon for blocking front attacks (by placing the one end of the bo in the ground just in front of you, and using that spot in the ground as a base, moving the other end of the stick any way you wish (this blocks one entire side of the body, instead of just i.e. upper right, lower left...)).

[trexmaster]

And believe me, coming from a person who's done a few years of martial arts, dicipline and dedication is crucial to really excel in the martial arts. I've seen too many students with talent who never took their training seriously, and because of it, they were advancing through the levels by a crawl. The other students who may not be as physicaly gifted but take their training seriously always moved up the ranks quickly and are really tough to beat in sparring matches.

Why do you think Splinter can defeat the TMNT even though they're much more physicaly gifted than he is? It's all about dicipline, dedication, and having the right frame of mind.

I'm sorry, but we're talking about ninjutsu, not kung-fu or karate. In ninjutsu, a genuine appreciation of the art is the most important, not the ability to obey robotic commands and orders. Michelangelo is the only turtle with a genuine love of ninjutsu, so he's the most open-minded. Leo trains only to please Splinter, Raphael trains only because he loves violence, and Donatello doesn't even care that much.

That said, Leo is probably second to Mike, which I think is pretty good. Don't think I'm trashing Leo.

Raph's actually not a horrible fighter at all, he isn't the quickest and has a short temper but he is the strongest physically

That only goes so far. A truly skilled fighter is dextrous, graceful, precise, and clever, and Raphael has less of these attributes compared to the others.

[Anarky]

Originally Posted by trexmaster

I'm sorry, but we're talking about ninjutsu, not kung-fu or karate. In ninjutsu, a genuine appreciation of the art is the most important, not the ability to obey robotic commands and orders. Michelangelo is the only turtle with a genuine love of ninjutsu, so he's the most open-minded. Leo trains only to please Splinter, Raphael trains only because he loves violence, and Donatello doesn't even care that much.

Now, that part could upset many fans of the TMNT. You're basically calling Leo a teacher's pet, Raph a violent moron and Donnie uninterested.

Has it ever crossed your mind, that Leo trains because he sees the necessity of these skills in his life. I mean, being a mutated turtle in a world full of people who will most likely want to kill you to see what made you tick probably isn't the easiest thing to do. The way I see it (Ryona, please correct me if I'm being stupid), Leo trains because he sees that his life will most likely be at least a bit easier if he's able to defend himself and move unseen. That's why the TMNT probably move up on the rooftops. If I was a Turtle, I'd be the same, I'd realise that I have to be able to defend myself, being able to fight off the hard world up there in order to survive.

And Leo wants to have it as easy as possible and if "training = easy" then "more training = easier".

And Raph loving violence is bollocks. I have my anger inside me as well, and I let it out sometimes (actually as soon as someone really ticks me off), but I do not love violence. I do not want to hurt anyone, even if I've just beaten them unconscious. Go figure.

Donnie not being interested... bollocks again. He is interested in martial arts, since he needs it to survive as well. But he does not want to use it. There's a huge difference between not using and not being interested. Donatello tries to find ways to avoid fighting, but if you have seen SAINW, then you see that he can fight and that he uses his skills.

That only goes so far. A truly skilled fighter is dextrous, graceful, precise, and clever, and Raphael has less of these attributes compared to the others.

If you have seen to many fancy movies, then yes. Then a skilled fighter moves faster than light, looking cool and always making a witty remark. Let me guess, you have never really been in a fight. Not one of those sparring-things, but the real deal. There's nothing cool and graceful in there.

[Serp]

Originally Posted by trexmaster

I'm sorry, but we're talking about ninjutsu, not kung-fu or karate. In ninjutsu, a genuine appreciation of the art is the most important, not the ability to obey robotic commands and orders. Michelangelo is the only turtle with a genuine love of ninjutsu, so he's the most open-minded. Leo trains only to please Splinter, Raphael trains only because he loves violence, and Donatello doesn't even care that much.

That said, Leo is probably second to Mike, which I think is pretty good. Don't think I'm trashing Leo.



That only goes so far. A truly skilled fighter is dextrous, graceful, precise, and clever, and Raphael has less of these attributes compared to the others.

I have never trained in Ninjitsu, but I would think its more than just wild unpredictable moves, you would have to have a certain mind set. Sure mike is open minded, but whats to say that his brothers aren't frome time to time. Sure Leo is a "By the Book type fighter" but Mike is on the lazy side so which do you think is Worse!? I'm not trashing Mike but his is a lot layzier than Leo.

[Buslady]

Originally Posted by trexmaster

I'm sorry, but we're talking about ninjutsu, not kung-fu or karate.

Ninjitsu, as I understand, uses elements of ALL of the general martial arts and then added all the other elements like stealth and all that; .....it's all integrated into the whole Ninjutsu art.

Raphael trains only because he loves violence

I never read something SO FAR FROM THE TRUTH....
Raph trains because it is their way and it's for survival, he's determined not to let the bad guy get him, he doesnt like his uncontrollable violent side; he is ashamed how he sometimes loses control and just goes crazy. Raph doesnt mind a good fight, it's in his nature to- some pond turtles are aggressive, the way i see it, he's kept that part of his nature. He is a survivor, like he says, the big dog. in a dog eat dog world..I believe if he had a choice with what to do with himself, he would love to have a normal quiet life like anybody else...jee this is where alot of that anger comes from...

[Jo269976]

Leo, if you don't know why, you'd better leave now