New Ep Discussion: "Scion of the Shredder"

[tOkKa]

-->> .. i was shocked by the suprise cameo appearance of Carmen Sandiego in April's shoppe ..

[Masked Ninja]

I watched this in my dorm basement with my friend this morning... definitely a fun time.

She noted that the episode started with that ridiculous "Sewer Sweet Sewer" sign... nice contrast, we thought. And we also liked how everyone used Don's inventions to get out.

And when Don rescued Splinter?! I was all "go Don!" because he usually gets biffed across the room and stuff. But he was kicking trash left and right... and the animation was great for this one. Not quite as impressive as the opening to "Grudge Match," but definitely good.

And as much as I love Leo, two gripes:
1) They showed him (if for 2 minutes). I was kinda hoping to have him completely out of it. At least his voice is back to normal.
2) True... an obvious setup for "Leo comes in and fights Shredder/Karai! yay!"

And while it's kinda disappointing that we can never have a true "OMG! Will they survive?!" moment because of the nature of this type of show... I'm still willing to enjoy the drama. That scene with April and Karai was intense. April has never met Karai face-to-face before... I wonder if she realized just how much danger she was in.

Yay for overanalyzing storms! I especially enjoyed Katie's "house of cards" analogy m'self.

EDIT: Carmen Sandiego

And... the discrepancy with the Shredder suit was likely to fool us into thinking HE was back toward the beginning. Once that was cleared up, they probably pushed toward "feminine" gradually, to match the model sheet they're going to use for Karai as Lady Shredder?

[Toonami Tom]

Whoa! Karai has become EVIL! I wonder how they found the turtle's lair, and can't believe they destroyed their home! We all know the turtles and Splinter survived, unless they throw in a suprise twist and have Splinter die, which I doubt. Wow, Leonardo is going to be p!$$ed, time for him to open up a six pack of whup @$$ on Karai.

[rayfillet101]

I remember when 4 Kids or Playmates were doing PR for the 3rd season they said they would be in a Tortuga Bros Bus or Van. I think this is when it happens? I was led to believe it was due to Bishop in the article. does anyone have it>

[Mars-Chan]

AWESOME EPISODE!!! I was on the edge of my seat the whole.....*pause*...ahem... ON THE FLOOR the whole time!

Leonardo_Warrior_Turtle wrote:

That is what I'm feeling with this episode. Oh the carnage! Leo is going to be super pissed when he gets back.

Oh, you KNOW he will, L_W_T! He won't take this thing lying down (if you all will excuse my pun)! I have a feeling good old Leo is going to make sure Karai knows who rules the sewers and how he feels when his family's life is put on the line, just because SHE has a grudge against him. I know *I* would....

[Leonardo_Warrior_Turtle]

I almost forgot to mention it!!! It was interesting to see Mikey's Battle Nexus trophey and Splinter's orb destroyed. The Foot didn't just want to kill them. They wanted to completely destroy their lives. I just can't wait to see Leo's reaction when he returns to the lair.

[jeff the cheff]

Originally Posted by TerranigmaFreak

No, I'm not talking about the movement, I'm talking about the look of the suit. It look completely normal throughout the entire episode EXCEPT for when she's standing there laughing as the turtles' home was being destoryed. It has nothing to do with who's in there. Plus, the suit is metalic, I doubt it'll transform just cause someone else is in it. Watch that part again, then watch next week's preview, even the helmet looks slightly different in the preview.

Nah, I think it looked feminine the whole time.

I wish they distorted her voice a little more, though.

[Tinuvielsdreams]

Originally Posted by Leonardo_Warrior_Turtle

I almost forgot to mention it!!! It was interesting to see Mikey's Battle Nexus trophey and Splinter's orb destroyed. The Foot didn't just want to kill them. They wanted to completely destroy their lives. I just can't wait to see Leo's reaction when he returns to the lair.

That was so sad.... The trophy was a casualty but Karai straight up stomped that orb. She knew exactluy what it was and that it would hurt. Man she is insane! When I saw the large robots and the one time we get to see who is conrtolling it I was thinking if that is Baxter I am gonna scream...lol
It was deifinietly the Mikey trying to save Klunk part that really got me. The whole thing was just so sad

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Leonardo_Warrior_Turtle

I almost forgot to mention it!!! It was interesting to see Mikey's Battle Nexus trophey and Splinter's orb destroyed. The Foot didn't just want to kill them. They wanted to completely destroy their lives. I just can't wait to see Leo's reaction when he returns to the lair.

They also took out Donnie's workshop...I don't remember if there were refrences to the other 2 (Leo's and Raph's) things, like Raphie's bag. Leo's big "thing" that was 'destroied" i gusee could be his home and family. I liked this episode, I must admit that at first I thougt that April and Karai had met, but looking back, they never did, aside from the alternate future SaiNW...which is a slightly diffrent future from this timeline...note Leo and Karai's dialogue in SaiNW. The action was nice, the new look to the foot, elite, and techs was a bit odd. I do think that the Karai/Shredder armor had a feminine aire about it from the very begining as well, but it's all out lady Shredder in the next episode. I think that Splinter should have stood his own a bit better against Karai though. If Karai can beat Sensi, and Leo can beat Karai, then the student has surpassed the master, and where does Splinter's role go. Man, that last thought made me think: What if Splinter didn't survive!?

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

I believe this episode just kicked I-Monsters ass as the best episode yet. The animation was smooth and fluid, the action scenes went past my expectations, and it perfectly set up the next episode. This is what I've been wating for.

Though, Karai's VA could have been a little better, but, that's a minor problem. Great episode.

[Aska_Badoura]

I think that about sums it up.

I haven't read anyone's posts in this thread yet, I wanted to talk first.

Where do I start?!! It goes without saying that I'm deeply dismayed. I knew Karai was feeling some Demona-esque psychotic confusion, but she hasn't lived a thousand years, and I thought that would make the insanity a little less extreme.. well, so much for that.

She STEPPED ON Splinter's orb of Yoshi!!

She's gotten to the psychotic laughter stage.

She left the lair in ruins. Everything's gone.

But she should know better than to think the family's gone (so should we!). She knows them better than that. If they could live through all the stuff the Shredder threw at them, what makes her think she can kill them, being less experienced (by default... who else has been here... yeah, I guess it's also been around a thousand years!), and, dare I say it, not as evil?

Splinter's given up on her. That seems like a valid response to the happenings of this ep. I'm going to be a good little fan, and not give up on her yet. The previews for next week look interesting. I hope Leo's well rested and healed now, and able to think as a calm, balanced individual again. It may make up for Karai's maniacal streak as of late. I hope...

I have a one-of-my-favorite-characters-is-now-psychotic headache.

I'll probably have a lot more to write once I've read the other posts.

[Drtooth]

Does anyone else get depressed during those long months of reruns, waiting to see what the shell the Turtles are up to?

This was a definate beauty. Even though we all know the Turtles are just fine, hiding out somewhere. After all, if they died, season 5 would really be lonley.... Karai, Hun, and Baxter would just be sitting around saying how great it was to get rid of the turtles.... then realizing there's not much else to do.

Anyway, any episode with THIS much destruction is worthy of a long month and a half wait. I'm just wondering what happens now. How DID the turtles get out? Where are they going to live now? Will Mikey get all mopey because his beloved Battle Nexus trophy is destroyed? WIll Karai finally see the light?

You know... all that "Tune in next time, same turtle place, same turtle time," type crap.

[longing for leo]

I have a one-of-my-favorite-characters-is-now-psychotic headache.

Lol, me too.

Leo is going to be super pissed when he gets back.
Oh, you KNOW he will. He won't take this thing lying down! I have a feeling good old Leo is going to make sure Karai knows who rules the sewers and how he feels when his family's life is put on the line, just because SHE has a grudge against him. I know *I* would...

"A warrior who attacks in anger never wins..."

Hmm, I'd like to believe that this lesson stuck with Leo. Those yetis were making a fool of him, and the Ancient One probably reinforced the message. I'm thinking that he's going to come back to a trashed lair, scream/cry with grief, be confronted by Karai, and he'll attack her out of--dare I say it, (this is going to sound so corny...meh) love. You know, because he loves his family & friends so much. That's the emotion that will be constricting his chest and sharpening his moves, not anger...well, that is, if the AO & the yeti's message stuck with him. I think that the writers are putting him in this position so soon as a sort of "test" to prove that he's healed/has learned something. Maybe he'll even be loosing because of the grief, and then his bros will all come back to the lair and he'll get his energy/motivation back & they'll take Karai down as a team...

But that's just what I'm rooting for. I'll be rather disappointed if it's just Leo attacking Karai out of rightious anger & winning. Actually, what I'm really disappointed with is how they've made Karai into a one-dimensional character. She had depth: she was complex, full of conflicting emotions and codes, definitely not a black/white character. But now, it's like her "good" half was cut off, leaving only the simple, easy to deal with because you can't relate to her, evil enemy. I much prefered her when she was in some degree enigmatic. I liked the multi-dimensional, more real portrayal of her...now she's just...simple/annoying. That laugh...wow, me thinks some of her screws have come loose. Betrayal in the worst form. I really hope she'll let some of her good side show again.

Oh...and I conceide defeat: there is now absolutely no chance that she and Leo will have anything between them. Shell that's disappointing. They had some chemistry...at least as friends. And she even said that they used to be friends. If she considered him a friend, why does she want to kill him now? Ahhh, I don't understand her. Maybe she still has some depth, but not the way I like.

Oh, and where the shell is Leatherhead?! Hun survived, and he doesn't have tough reptilian skin...They could bunk at his place for a while; it's huge. Man, I am really going to miss the lair! It was an Elintian stronghold, for crying out loud...how cool was that! And now what?

I smiled when Raph took responsibility and acted in place of Leo. I always knew he was vp/2nd in command. But...was anyone else surprised that he just left Mikey alone in the lair? Talk about every turtle for himself... At least Mikey thought to rescue Klunk...guess he didn't learn much from Bad Day...you know, about sacrificing yourself for your pet. I'm still glad that he did, don't get me wrong. I love Klunk.

Poor guys... we'd better get to see some tears from Leo! (going back to that conversation in the screencaps) Real men aren't afraid to cry, and he'll sure have reason to. I can't wait for the reunion...they'd better have time to hug!

[MasterMole]

Originally Posted by rayfillet101

OH MY GOD.
From this episode on, it is a whole new series. new Foot Mystic elite type things, new foot costumes(that kind of bugged me), new location for the turtles, new vehicles, new shredder.

I was just thinking OH NO the whole time. It was amazing. But what happens with Leatherhead and Fugitoid? They live close by dont they? and Usagi and Gen know where the lair is. I cant wait to see what happens next. I was screaming SAVE KLUNK! and CALL APRIL OR CASEY! the whole time. Karai and April...wow.

PLease don't be offended, but I said this before: PLease do not take our Lord God's name in vain. It sure does offend Him and breaks a Commandment which we are all to follow. It really upsets me and should others to constantly see and hear people doing this. God has nothing to do with this topic. We are talking about the Ninja Turtles, not our Holy God. PLease consider saying Gosh or Goodness next time. Just where is the Respect today for our Creator who Loves us so much?! You wonder how much more more of He's gonna stand before He intervenes. Another Tsunami anyone? Pray to God, but just don't go around saying His holy name, unless its for the Right reason.

[J Legault]

I didn't think Karai would do such a thing.

The new and improved Foot Ninjas destroyed their lair, Turtle Van, Turtle Sub, Turtle Tunneler, Mikey's Battle Nexus Trophy and Splinter's orb gift from the Utroms!

I know our heros had survive those attacks, cause it would suck to only haveo ne turtle around.

Can't wait to see Leo talk some sense to Karai after he hears what she has done.

Looks like their nightmares from "Bad Day" are coming true.

[Jester]

Just a though, a lot of people (including me) think redemption waits in the wings for Karai. Could this one-dimentional Karai just be a lost Karai who will eventually will be brought back. Leo went from Leo to an almost one-dimentional shadow of his former self and then it would seem almost back again with the help of his family and the Ancient One, maybe the same road awaits karai. Or perhaps as a contrast, she will stay the course on this distructive road, and it will be her end.

[LUCKFF]

DOES ANYONE HERE ENJOY WATCHING THE TURTLES GET THEIR ASS KICKED? DOESN'T THAT ASPECT BRING A REALISTIC FEEL TO THE SHOW. I CERTAINLY DONT LIKE TO SEE MY HERO'S INVINCIBLE. WELL THIS EPISODE DIDN'T DO THAT. THE FOOT ARE NOT BETTER! IN FACT THEY ONLY HIT THE TURTLES TWICE (DON, MICKEY) NOT COUNTING THEIR MEC SUITS WHO AT TIMES KNOCKED OVER SOME PILLARS THAT LANDED CLOSE TO THE TURTLES. I WOULDN'T SAY THIS EPISODE WAS GREAT OR AWESOME OR BETTER THEN I-MONSTER OR THE BEST EPISODE EVER. THE ANIMATION WAS NOT UP TO PAR WITH "SAINW", "TOUCH AND GO", "I-MONSTER", "HUN ON THE RUN" OR "SHREDDER STRIKES BACK" ETC. DIDN'T WE EXPECT THE GUYS TO GET THEIR ASS KICKED? THE ONLY THING THE FOOT DID WAS OVERWHELM THEM, THATS ALL. OK SO KARAI DID A LITTLE MORE RECRUITING, SO WHAT? THEY STILL SUCK. AGAIN I SAY THAT THE ONLY TIME THE FOOT EVER SHOWED UP IN ALL 4 SEASONS WAS "THINGS CHANGE" AFTER THAT, THEY JUST ALWAYS GOT THEIR ASS KICKED.

ITS OFFICIAL THE "FOOT ELITE" ARE NO LONGER ELITE AND HAVEN'T BEEN SINCE "SHREDDER STRIKES BACK". WHAT? WERE THEY ON FIRE THAT DAY OR SOMETHING???????? THESE GUYS WERE AT THE ENTRANCE (ALL FOUR OF THEM!!!!) AND I DIDN'T ONCE SEE THEM ON SCREEN FIGHTING. WTF!!???!!!! THEY ARE JUST AS CORNEY AS THE REGULAR FOOT.

"KARAI AND THE FOOT SAPS"
"KARAI AND THE FOOT CRAPS"
"KARAI AND THE TOE CLAN" "LOOK OUT!!!!! ITS THE TOE CLAN!!!!!!!!!"
iLL, THE FOOT BLEW THEIR CHANCES.

I EXPECTED ALOT FROM THIS EPISODE. IS IT JUST ME? I MEANS ITS BEEN A WHILE THAT WE GET A STREET EPISODE. AND A LONG TIME SINCE THE FOOT. I EXPECTED A CLIMATIC EPISODE.

NOW ON TOP OF ALL THAT THE EPISODE WAS STILL GOOD. I LIKE THE IDEA THAT ALL THE TURTLES ARE SEPARATED. I HOPE THIS TURNS INTO AN ARCH WHERE THEY ALL FEND FOR THEMSELVES.

Originally Posted by jeff the cheff

I wish they distorted her voice a little more, though.

ME TOO

I'M FINALLY WHERE ALOT OF YOU GUYS ARE. I'M SICK OF LEO. GIVE HIM A BREAK. ITS TRUE: "LEO AND THE TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES". CANT RAPH GET A PIECE OF SHREDDER? WHY DOES IT ALWAYS HAVE TO BE LEO. KEEP IN MIND THAT I AM A LEO FAN OVER ALL THE OTHERS.

[Aska_Badoura]

On a side note, how did April not know it was Karai? The "stranger" Spoke like Karai, acted like Karai, she IS Karai. Sorry if i offend, just alot of frustration.

April's never met Karai.

April didn't look quite surprised enough when Karai told her the others were dead.

Well, it's not something she'd take like "Oh no!! They're dead!!!" It'd be more like "No, that can't be. They staged it or something. The guys got away. They would have called if they were in trouble. They're fine." Denial. Or at least refusal to panic until one has more solid facts than a bashed-in wall hanging.

As for Karai herself, I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I feel sorry for her. Oroku Saki has messed up her head but good. She's been lied to her whole life, and she's in some serious denial. Either she's gonna realize the truth eventually, or she'll be smacked in the face with it. And maybe I'm in the minority again, but I see salvation for her in the end.

Oh, I hope I hope!

Anyone notice the animation mistake with Karai's new Shredder suit? At the end where she laughs as the lair gets destroyed, the Shredder suit looks more feminine? Also, the suit looks more feminine in the episode preview for next week.

From the very beginning when she appeared, it could be seen that whomever was in that suit is much more slender. The construction is different. I think that particular angle just made it more obvious.

Ah don't worry you're not alone, I too feel for Karai. ^^;;; *waves tiny Karai support flag and quickly hides it*

*gets a bigger flag and waves it frantically* I'm not shy about wanting Karai to get better!

And then the turtles destroyed him, with good reason, but they destroyed him.

Well, they tried to. Ultimately, it wasn't up to them. And she did help them, by preventing her father from killing them. And I'm sure at the moment she's furious at herself for doing that.

She needs guidance. She needs someone good in her life to make her see the error of her ways (and no I don't necessarily mean romance :p).

*nodnods* If she's not beyond reach now.

Okay when Splinter said he "reached out to her". That confused me. When did he ever do this?

I've been trying to tell you that for a while, Doppleganger. :p He supported her when she couldn't kill Leonardo and his family in "Rogue in the House". He reinforced her belief that her personal honor was important, too. And he believed in her, because Leo believed in her. He didn't have much contact with her, but when he did, he was supportive.

Plus, the suit is metalic, I doubt it'll transform just cause someone else is in it.

I believe she's had that suit made for herself. It would be much more comfortable for her to wear that way (if she's planning on wearing it often, anyway ) Even if not, if a three-fingered Turtle can wear a five-fingered glove, anything can happen.

April has never met Karai face-to-face before... I wonder if she realized just how much danger she was in.

Hrm. Creepy thought. On the other hand, Karai apparently has no wish to spread violence where it doesn't need to be: she didn't do anything to April. Just delivered a message. She could have delivered a message and beat up the messanger, too, but she didn't.

And... the discrepancy with the Shredder suit was likely to fool us into thinking HE was back toward the beginning. Once that was cleared up, they probably pushed toward "feminine" gradually, to match the model sheet they're going to use for Karai as Lady Shredder?

Could be... but it seems like it did occur to me right away that it was a bit thin in the waist.

Oh.. I forgot the Battle Nexus trophy! Aww, that was sad! I was more sad about Don losing his lab, though. I think I'm biased. :p

Actually, what I'm really disappointed with is how they've made Karai into a one-dimensional character. She had depth: she was complex, full of conflicting emotions and codes, definitely not a black/white character. But now, it's like her "good" half was cut off, leaving only the simple, easy to deal with because you can't relate to her, evil enemy.

No, I think that other side's still there, just WAY repressed at the moment. I was surprised she even mentioned pleading with Leonardo to leave her father alone, and, later, that he was her friend. She's still hanging on to that, and wishing it could have been different.

Oh...and I conceide defeat: there is now absolutely no chance that she and Leo will have anything between them.

I will never admit defeat.. oh, wait, that sounds a little psychotic in itself.

I completely agree, NinjaSwordsman. I usually just say an apology on behalf of the person and pray for them.

Leo went from Leo to an almost one-dimentional shadow of his former self and then it would seem almost back again with the help of his family and the Ancient One, maybe the same road awaits karai. Or perhaps as a contrast, she will stay the course on this distructive road, and it will be her end.

I'm still thinking it will lean more toward Mirage Vol 4... an uneasy alliance. Eventually. After a lot of grief. I hope.

[Bevandera]

Great episode, but the storyboarders really mailed it in.

At one point Karai was holding Splinter and fighting Raph and Donny. That leaves...200 foot ninja, 2 foot mechs, and 4 Foot Elite to fight...Mikey. Yeah. Sorry, but he's not THAT good at dodging.

In a fight where the entire lair is filled with Foot ninja, there should not have been a moment where Raph could be dazed on the ground without one of them running up and skewering him like a fish, let alone a few minutes.

The Foot Elite did nothing. Absolutely nothing. Except show off their flashy new shoulder armor. Speaking of which, the Foot have different costumes this time. They've foregone the yellow eyed look in favor of a more Tech-looking goggled look. Also, they wear red sashes now. But yeah, the Foot Elite are supposed to be near Turtle fighting level. Four of them should easily be able to pound Mikey even without giant fighting robots and scores of minions.

And then there were the general script problems:
A foot mech grabs Raph in its huge metal claw and...throws him away. Why not just squeeze?
Donny and Splinter's "death" I can completely understand the guy calling in and saying they died. Raph and Mikey though..."Mistress Karai, their armored vehicle flipped over. Clearly there is no way the creature with an armored shell could survive a vehicle flipping over." "Mistress Karai, I knocked over the drill thingie. Do I get my 'killed a turtle' gold star now?"

All in all, I felt a much greater sense of unbeatable odds and danger in Shredder Strikes Back, despite there being a heck of a lot more foot and less turtles this time. Not as good as Shredder Strikes Back, not as good as Bad Day, but still a fun episode. Hopefully next week's will be the real prize.

Yeah, one more thing. April is friggin DUMB.

Karai: "I am looking for Leonardo."
April: "Leo? I...don't know anyone by that name."

Are you kidding me? She just used a nickname for him!

Person A "Hey do you do know Christina?"
Person B "Oh yeah, Christy! No, never heard of her."

[jeff the cheff]

Originally Posted by Bevandera

Yeah, one more thing. April is friggin DUMB.

Karai: "I am looking for Leonardo."
April: "Leo? I...don't know anyone by that name."

Are you kidding me? She just used a nickname for him!

Person A "Hey do you do know Christina?"
Person B "Oh yeah, Christy! No, never heard of her."

Haha, I was thinking the same thing.





Also, How is saying the word God make it in vain?